How many times has Pitt had a recruiting class that had two top 100 players?

[JS School]

Particularly since 2000? I don't follow rankings very closely, but I believe Adams and Robinson would be one. Evans probably had some, but that's not particularly relevant now. Just curious, because that seems to be the expectation of what Stallings must do but I'm not sure how many times Howland and Dixon may have done it, and they both managed to have some pretty good teams.

Please do not turn this into a rant about how Stallings needs superior talent because he cannot coach.

 

[DT_PITT]

Particularly since 2000? I don't follow rankings very closely, but I believe Adams and Robinson would be one. Evans probably had some, but that's not particularly relevant now. Just curious, because that seems to be the expectation of what Stallings must do but I'm not sure how many times Howland and Dixon may have done it, and they both managed to have some pretty good teams.

Please do not turn this into a rant about how Stallings needs superior talent because he cannot coach.

Since 2000 ...

CONSENSUS Top 100 players

2017 - None (Marcus Carr is pretty close)
2016 - None (Corey Manigualt 120-150)
2015 - Just one - Damon Wilson
2014 - None
2013 - None (Mike Young was close to consensus Top 100)
2012 - Steve Adams and James Robinson
2011-- Just one -- Khem Birch (Malcolm Gilbert and Darand Johnson were just outside being consensus Top 100)
2010 - None (JJ Moore ranked just outside Top 100)
2009 - Just one - Dante Taylor (Lamar Patterson just outside being consensus Top 100)
2008 - Just one - Nasir Robinson (Nasir was just inside the Top 100) -- Ashton Gibbs (around 125-150)
2007 - Dejuan Blair and Brad Wanamaker (Darnell Dodson was top 125, but he never got here and Gary McGhee was Top 150)
2006 - Just one - Gilbert Brown
2005 - Sam Young, Levance Fields and Tyrell Biggs
2004 - None (Ron Ramon and Keith Benjamin -- 125 to 150)
2003 - Chris Taft and Walter Waters, (Walters didn't end up here anyway and Aaron Gray was top 150).
2002 - None
2001 - Just one - Carl Krauser
2000 - None (Julius Page and Chevy Troutman just outside the top 100)

Others ...

1997 - Just one -- Ricky Greer -- but Attila Cosby was just outside the top 100
1996 - Issac Hawkins and Jarrett Lockhart
1995 - Mark Blount, Vonteego Cummings, Mike Gill and Kelli Taylor (based on if prep schools were included)
1989 - Jamel Faulker, Eric Mobley, Chris McNeal (Mobley and McNeal were Prop 48 though and Faulker never got here)
1987 - Shorter, Miller, Martin and Matthews
1984 - Gore and Smith

I'm not sure that Golden will end up being consensus Top 100 for 2018. We'll have to see how the summer rankings shake out.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Particularly since 2000? I don't follow rankings very closely, but I believe Adams and Robinson would be one. Evans probably had some, but that's not particularly relevant now. Just curious, because that seems to be the expectation of what Stallings must do but I'm not sure how many times Howland and Dixon may have done it, and they both managed to have some pretty good teams.

Please do not turn this into a rant about how Stallings needs superior talent because he cannot coach.

Blair and Brad W. were Top 100, McGhee Top 150, and Darnell Dodson was a talented player who was also part of that class. That was a Top 20 recruiting class.

 

[GrowthHormone]

Since 2000 ...

CONSENSUS Top 100 players

2017 - None (Marcus Carr is pretty close)
2016 - None (Corey Manigualt 120-150)
2015 - Just one - Damon Wilson
2014 - None
2013 - None (Mike Young was close to consensus Top 100)
2012 - Steve Adams and James Robinson
2011-- Just one -- Khem Birch (Malcolm Gilbert and Darand Johnson were just outside being consensus Top 100)
2010 - None (JJ Moore ranked just outside Top 100)
2009 - Just one - Dante Taylor (Lamar Patterson just outside being consensus Top 100)
2008 - Just one - Nasir Robinson (Nasir was just inside the Top 100) -- Ashton Gibbs (around 125-150)
2007 - Dejuan Blair and Brad Wanamaker (Darnell Dodson was top 125, but he never got here and Gary McGhee was Top 150)
2006 - Just one - Gilbert Brown
2005 - Sam Young, Levance Fields and Tyrell Biggs
2004 - None (Ron Ramon and Keith Benjamin -- 125 to 150)
2003 - Chris Taft and Walter Waters, (Walters didn't end up here anyway and Aaron Gray was top 150).
2002 - None
2001 - Just one - Carl Krauser
2000 - None (Julius Page and Chevy Troutman just outside the top 100)

Others ...

1997 - Just one -- Ricky Greer -- but Attila Cosby was just outside the top 100
1996 - Issac Hawkins and Jarrett Lockhart
1995 - Mark Blount, Vonteego Cummings, Mike Gill and Kelli Taylor (based on if prep schools were included)
1989 - Jamel Faulker, Eric Mobley, Chris McNeal (Mobley and McNeal were Prop 48 though and Faulker never got here)
1987 - Shorter, Miller, Martin and Matthews
1984 - Gore and Smith

I'm not sure that Golden will end up being consensus Top 100 for 2018. We'll have to see how the summer rankings shake out.

Where do you get your numbers from? I am looking at 247 sports composite ranking and seeing Malcolm Gilbert and Durand Johnson as both Top 100 recruits. Then JJ Moore at 75 and Epps just outside the top 100.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Outside of the Golden Panther era Pitt seldom ever had teams made up of highly rated recruits . What made JDs BE success was the improvement of players during their time here . Arron Gray , Chevy , Gary McGhee , Brad Wanamaker , Lamar Patterson ,Trey Woodall etc . Expecting KS to come in here and bring in a team of highly rated recruits is asking a bit much . Let's hope he has eye for underrated guys and gets lucky with some higher profile guys in 18 .

 

[DT_PITT]

Where do you get your numbers from? I am looking at 247 sports composite ranking and seeing Malcolm Gilbert and Durand Johnson as both Top 100 recruits. Then JJ Moore at 75 and Epps just outside the top 100.

Information I've kept over the years from various sites. I'm not sure what 247 uses, but it seems quite generous.

 

[DT_PITT]

Where do you get your numbers from? I am looking at 247 sports composite ranking and seeing Malcolm Gilbert and Durand Johnson as both Top 100 recruits. Then JJ Moore at 75 and Epps just outside the top 100.

For example, Epps' ranking had plummeted by the time he got to Pitt (over 200).

 

[mbrannagan]

Since 2000 ...

CONSENSUS Top 100 players

2017 - None (Marcus Carr is pretty close)
2016 - None (Corey Manigualt 120-150)
2015 - Just one - Damon Wilson
2014 - None
2013 - None (Mike Young was close to consensus Top 100)
2012 - Steve Adams and James Robinson
2011-- Just one -- Khem Birch (Malcolm Gilbert and Darand Johnson were just outside being consensus Top 100)
2010 - None (JJ Moore ranked just outside Top 100)
2009 - Just one - Dante Taylor (Lamar Patterson just outside being consensus Top 100)
2008 - Just one - Nasir Robinson (Nasir was just inside the Top 100) -- Ashton Gibbs (around 125-150)
2007 - Dejuan Blair and Brad Wanamaker (Darnell Dodson was top 125, but he never got here and Gary McGhee was Top 150)
2006 - Just one - Gilbert Brown
2005 - Sam Young, Levance Fields and Tyrell Biggs
2004 - None (Ron Ramon and Keith Benjamin -- 125 to 150)
2003 - Chris Taft and Walter Waters, (Walters didn't end up here anyway and Aaron Gray was top 150).
2002 - None
2001 - Just one - Carl Krauser
2000 - None (Julius Page and Chevy Troutman just outside the top 100)

Others ...

1997 - Just one -- Ricky Greer -- but Attila Cosby was just outside the top 100
1996 - Issac Hawkins and Jarrett Lockhart
1995 - Mark Blount, Vonteego Cummings, Mike Gill and Kelli Taylor (based on if prep schools were included)
1989 - Jamel Faulker, Eric Mobley, Chris McNeal (Mobley and McNeal were Prop 48 though and Faulker never got here)
1987 - Shorter, Miller, Martin and Matthews
1984 - Gore and Smith

I'm not sure that Golden will end up being consensus Top 100 for 2018. We'll have to see how the summer rankings shake out.

That 1989 class could have been really good. Faulkner was a very good player.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Since 2000 ...

CONSENSUS Top 100 players

2017 - None (Marcus Carr is pretty close)
2016 - None (Corey Manigualt 120-150)
2015 - Just one - Damon Wilson
2014 - None
2013 - None (Mike Young was close to consensus Top 100)
2012 - Steve Adams and James Robinson
2011-- Just one -- Khem Birch (Malcolm Gilbert and Darand Johnson were just outside being consensus Top 100)
2010 - None (JJ Moore ranked just outside Top 100)
2009 - Just one - Dante Taylor (Lamar Patterson just outside being consensus Top 100)
2008 - Just one - Nasir Robinson (Nasir was just inside the Top 100) -- Ashton Gibbs (around 125-150)
2007 - Dejuan Blair and Brad Wanamaker (Darnell Dodson was top 125, but he never got here and Gary McGhee was Top 150)
2006 - Just one - Gilbert Brown
2005 - Sam Young, Levance Fields and Tyrell Biggs
2004 - None (Ron Ramon and Keith Benjamin -- 125 to 150)
2003 - Chris Taft and Walter Waters, (Walters didn't end up here anyway and Aaron Gray was top 150).
2002 - None
2001 - Just one - Carl Krauser
2000 - None (Julius Page and Chevy Troutman just outside the top 100)

Others ...

1997 - Just one -- Ricky Greer -- but Attila Cosby was just outside the top 100
1996 - Issac Hawkins and Jarrett Lockhart
1995 - Mark Blount, Vonteego Cummings, Mike Gill and Kelli Taylor (based on if prep schools were included)
1989 - Jamel Faulker, Eric Mobley, Chris McNeal (Mobley and McNeal were Prop 48 though and Faulker never got here)
1987 - Shorter, Miller, Martin and Matthews
1984 - Gore and Smith

I'm not sure that Golden will end up being consensus Top 100 for 2018. We'll have to see how the summer rankings shake out.

It's funny our best success followed the 05 and 07 classes which made sense

Back at some of the older classes. Smith was top 5 and Gore a top 30. The 87 class may have been the nations best. The 89 class would have been highly regarded

Of course recruitniks completely missed the boat on the early Howland class

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Information I've kept over the years from various sites. I'm not sure what 247 uses, but it seems quite generous.

It is weird that it is really hard to find past BB recruiting rankings unlike football. You think it would be easier

 

[gary2]

Outside of the Golden Panther era Pitt seldom ever had teams made up of highly rated recruits . What made JDs BE success was the improvement of players during their time here . Arron Gray , Chevy , Gary McGhee , Brad Wanamaker , Lamar Patterson ,Trey Woodall etc . Expecting KS to come in here and bring in a team of highly rated recruits is asking a bit much . Let's hope he has eye for underrated guys and gets lucky with some higher profile guys in 18 .

If we would only have 2 more scholarships to give in 2018, I would want them to go Zegarowski and Thamba. I am sure that will disappoint many as these players are not the highest rated.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

It is weird that it is really hard to find past BB recruiting rankings unlike football. You think it would be easier

Espn recruiting goes back quite a few yrs just google pitt bb recruiting .

 

[Thee Jackie Treehorn]

Particularly since 2000? I don't follow rankings very closely, but I believe Adams and Robinson would be one. Evans probably had some, but that's not particularly relevant now. Just curious, because that seems to be the expectation of what Stallings must do but I'm not sure how many times Howland and Dixon may have done it, and they both managed to have some pretty good teams.

Please do not turn this into a rant about how Stallings needs superior talent because he cannot coach.

But are people saying that getting two top 100 players is "the expectation of what Stallings must do" every single year or are they saying that he needs to do that specifically for the 2018 class?

 

[Thee Jackie Treehorn]

By the way, Stallings needs superior talent because he cannot coach.

(I kid, I kid.)

 

[mbrannagan]

But are people saying that getting two top 100 players is "the expectation of what Stallings must do" every single year or are they saying that he needs to do that specifically for the 2018 class?

To compete at a high level in the ACC he is going to likely need 2 in the top 150 each year at least.

 

[GrowthHormone]

Information I've kept over the years from various sites. I'm not sure what 247 uses, but it seems quite generous.

Huh, interesting. The methodology page for 247 isn't very informative, so I'm not sure either.. I'm not sure if it's any more or less generous. There's only one #1 player, one #2 player, etc. so it seems like it should be pretty fair.

 

[rockypanther]

That 1989 class could have been really good. Faulkner was a very good player.

We had good chances over the years to get Jamal Magloire and James Harden.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

DT is an old guy like me. So he can remember this. Way back when, you judged your recruiting classes pretty much by either Parade/McDonald All Americans AND/OR the Streets and Smith Preview Magazine. I miss those days. Streets and Smith was awesome!

 

[DT_PITT]

DT is an old guy like me. So he can remember this. Way back when, you judged your recruiting classes pretty much by either Parade/McDonald All Americans AND/OR the Streets and Smith Preview Magazine. I miss those days. Streets and Smith was awesome!

I remember walking to class and seeing Street and Smith in the shelf at Gus Millers the day it came out and just spending the day in the back of all classes reading every day and not paying attention to one word.

 

[BigZeke]

DT is an old guy like me. So he can remember this. Way back when, you judged your recruiting classes pretty much by either Parade/McDonald All Americans AND/OR the Streets and Smith Preview Magazine. I miss those days. Streets and Smith was awesome!

...and before shoe companies ruined it you could also see the biggest stars in HS Hoops at the Roundball Classic. Remember seeing Chris Webber in person and being incredulous he was only 17. Monster!

 

[gary2]

...and before shoe companies ruined it you could also see the biggest stars in HS Hoops at the Roundball Classic. Remember seeing Chris Webber in person and being incredulous he was only 17. Monster!

I had a bet with a friend on how many points and rebounds a certain player would have in the game (if I remember correctly Tom McMillan) The player went well over on points but was not close on rebounds.

Big East Briefs was my go to source for recruiting info - Loved Van Coleman

Athlon basketball magazine (did/does?) posts all power league rosters and stats - it is a great reference book during transfer season - also good to reference old editions for past recruiting ranking when assessing transfers.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Big East Briefs was my go to source for recruiting info - Loved Van Coleman

It was a good day when the BEBs appeared in the mail box.

Damn, are we getting old.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

...and before shoe companies ruined it you could also see the biggest stars in HS Hoops at the Roundball Classic. Remember seeing Chris Webber in person and being incredulous he was only 17. Monster!

The Roundball Classic was far and away my favorite bb event every year .

I had a bet with a friend on how many points and rebounds a certain player would have in the game (if I remember correctly Tom McMillan) The player went well over on points but was not close on rebounds.

Big East Briefs was my go to source for recruiting info - Loved Van Coleman

Athlon basketball magazine (did/does?) posts all power league rosters and stats - it is a great reference book during transfer season - also good to reference old editions for past recruiting ranking when assessing transfers.

Tom McMillan was awesome that night !

 

[BuffetParrothead]

It was a good day when the BEBs appeared in the mail box.

Damn, are we getting old.

What's a mailbox? Oh yes the junk mail thing.

And those were the days when important stuff actually came to the mail box in front of your house!

 

[Fsgolfdr]

The Roundball Classic was far and away my favorite bb event every year .

Tom McMillan was awesome that night !

I believe his first shot was rejected then he took over !

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Well yeah, the Roundball was the McDonald's All Star game in many respects. It was amazing the talent that played in it. I think aside from the McD's All Star game, what also obviously sunk it was shoe money and the falling of Western PA basketball. It used to be you had a USA team vs a PA team. Then there was enough left over for a Western Pa team play an Eastern Pa team. Now?

 

[mbrannagan]

We had good chances over the years to get Jamal Magloire and James Harden.

I knew about Magloire, wasn't aware that we were really in on Harden.

 

[NTOP]

...and before shoe companies ruined it you could also see the biggest stars in HS Hoops at the Roundball Classic. Remember seeing Chris Webber in person and being incredulous he was only 17. Monster!

Moses Malone was a monster. Those were fun games, in a packed Igloo.

 

[DT_PITT]

I knew about Magloire, wasn't aware that we were really in on Harden.

We were a finalist for Harden.

 

[DiehardPanther]

I knew about Magloire, wasn't aware that we were really in on Harden.

Arizona St hired his coach/mentor. Dixon was going to hire him, but Sendek swooped in and got him first. Harden said he would go where this coach went.

 

[BFo8]

One of my favorite Roundball moments was when Shaq was introduced along with his shoe size and they put the spotlight on his gigantic feet.

 

[jaygeekray]

Where do you get your numbers from? I am looking at 247 sports composite ranking and seeing Malcolm Gilbert and Durand Johnson as both Top 100 recruits. Then JJ Moore at 75 and Epps just outside the top 100.

Isaiah Epps just outside the Top100: that is all you need to know to totally discount that website

 

[ameoba defense]

Well yeah, the Roundball was the McDonald's All Star game in many respects. It was amazing the talent that played in it. I think aside from the McD's All Star game, what also obviously sunk it was shoe money and the falling of Western PA basketball. It used to be you had a USA team vs a PA team. Then there was enough left over for a Western Pa team play an Eastern Pa team. Now?

It's amazing how totally hoops in S/W Pa. declined after the 70s. Remember the SI article with the pic of the 74 Pitt team on Mt. Washington, and how it mentioned how all of the players were from within a stones throw? Amazing that Pitt could have such a team despite the fact that local products like Brad Davis, Maurice Lucas, Jeep Kelley, and Ricky Coleman had gone elsewhere. If you think that was a fluke, the 69 Duquesne team finished in the Top 10 with a squad of local guys (Nelson twins, Jarrett Durham etc.), despite the fact that players like Wuycik, DeVenzio, Simmie Hill, Van Lier, and Kenny Durrett went elsewhere. The talent level was very good here in the 60s and 70s. I know the arguments about the mills going away and such, but you'd think there would still have been good players, just not as many.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

It's amazing how totally hoops in S/W Pa. declined after the 70s. Remember the SI article with the pic of the 74 Pitt team on Mt. Washington, and how it mentioned how all of the players were from within a stones throw? Amazing that Pitt could have such a team despite the fact that local products like Brad Davis, Maurice Lucas, Jeep Kelley, and Ricky Coleman had gone elsewhere. If you think that was a fluke, the 69 Duquesne team finished in the Top 10 with a squad of local guys (Nelson twins, Jarrett Durham etc.), despite the fact that players like Wuycik, DeVenzio, Simmie Hill, Van Lier, and Kenny Durrett went elsewhere. The talent level was very good here in the 60s and 70s. I know the arguments about the mills going away and such, but you'd think there would still have been good players, just not as many.

My cousin was a very good hs bb player ( at Peabody HS ) and went on to be a very good D2 bb player , when he was a senior the team was loaded and expected to win the city championship until Schenley showed up with two sophomores ( freshman were ineligible at the time ) one Maurice Lucas and Ricky Coleman . Peabodys team didn't have that kind of talent !n
Ps ..Duquesne was the team to watch at that time a lot of great bb there , wouldn't be a bad thing for them to revive their program .

 

[LeftCoastPanther]

Arizona St hired his coach/mentor. Dixon was going to hire him, but Sendek swooped in and got him first. Harden said he would go where this coach went.

Dixon's sister passing delayed the hiring, then Sendek swooped in as you said. I'm pretty sure the coach was from Hershey and played at Penn State.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Isaiah Epps just outside the Top100: that is all you need to know to totally discount that website

Since all their composite ratings are is a simple average of their own and a bunch of other sites (Rivals, ESPN, etc.) rankings wouldn't that really mean that we should discount all the other web sites too?

 

[DT_PITT]

Since all their composite ratings are is a simple average of their own and a bunch of other sites (Rivals, ESPN, etc.) rankings wouldn't that really mean that we should discount all the other web sites too?

Here's a question for you then Joe ...

How do you think 247 is coming up with their composite ranking of Bryce Golden.

At one point, I believe they had him at 73. Now it's at 104 or something close to that.

Yet, their own site has him ranked at 108 and all other rankings are lower including Rivals at 124. In wondering if they include some other sources.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Here's a question for you then Joe ...

How do you think 247 is coming up with their composite ranking of Bryce Golden.

At one point, I believe they had him at 73. Now it's at 104 or something close to that.

Yet, their own site has him ranked at 108 and all other rankings are lower including Rivals at 124. In wondering if they include some other sources.

If they just use pure math those that they have ranked higher might be ranked lower elsewhere making his composite average better . Ie..A guy rated 3,5 , 20 is he really better than a guy with rankings of 2 , 2 , 25 ?

 

[GrowthHormone]

Isaiah Epps just outside the Top100: that is all you need to know to totally discount that website

It seems like every time I hear someone say "that is all you need to know to..." followed by an extreme statement, it's usually something pretty silly. It just doesn't usually work that way.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Here's a question for you then Joe ...

How do you think 247 is coming up with their composite ranking of Bryce Golden.

At one point, I believe they had him at 73. Now it's at 104 or something close to that.

Yet, their own site has him ranked at 108 and all other rankings are lower including Rivals at 124. In wondering if they include some other sources.

"The 247Sports Composite Rating is a proprietary algorithm that compiles prospect "rankings" and "ratings" listed in the public domain by the major media recruiting services. It converts average industry ranks and ratings into a linear composite index capping at 1.0000, which indicates a consensus No. 1 prospect across all services."

http://247sports.com/Article/247Rating-Explanation-81574