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I really dont like a divisionless ACC

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Sean Miller Fan

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Oct 30, 2001
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For 1, what is the point of having a championship game between your regular season champion and a team that did not win the regular season championship. OK, 12-0 Clemson, you are the regular season champion, now go play 2nd place 8-4 FSU to determine the REAL champion. Yea, I know, the Coastal has produced 6-6 and 7-5 champs. However, they were CHAMPIONS. They won their 7 team division and their fans could wear champion jerseys. So to determine the REAL champ, you had to match the Atlantic Champ with the Coastal Champ. Theoretically, it makes sense.

I am fine with re-doing the divisions, mixing them up, whatever, but I like divisions. For football, it works. For basketball, it doesn't make sense.

Here's an example of how wacky this could be:

Clemson 8-0
NC State 7-1
Pitt 6-2

Lets say NC State lost to Pitt and beat the ACC teams which finished 14th, 13th, 12th, 11th, 10th, 9th, and 8th while Pitt's losses were to Clemson and #4 Miami and their 6 wins were against #2, #5, #6, #7, #8, and #9. A divisionless ACC creates too much opportunity for this type of scheduling imbalance. I'm sure it will never be this extreme but it could get pretty close in some years. With divisions, you basically had a chance to right any wrongs. Yea, it sucks to get that crossover with Clemson but lose that and you still control your own destiny.
 
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As a matter of personal preference I also greatly prefer playing UVA (went there), Georgia Tech (live there), and most of the other teams in the Coastal for better road trips compared to the Atlantic. Boston is meh as far as a road trip goes, NC State fans are insane rednecks and Fayetteville sucks (deployed with Army SOCOM), Wake fans are annoying trust fund brats, it's hard to find a place to stay in Clemson since it's so small (lake house with a leaky roof last time) and you couldn't pay me to journey to Tallahassee. Louisville seems cool though.
 
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Sean Miller Fan said:
For 1, what is the point of having a championship game between your regular season champion and a team that did not win the regular season championship. OK, 12-0 Clemson, you are the regular season champion, now go play 2nd place 8-4 FSU to determine the REAL champion. Yea, I know, the Coastal has produced 6-6 and 7-5 champs. However, they were CHAMPIONS. They won their 7 team division and their fans could wear champion jerseys. So to determine the REAL champ, you had to match the Atlantic Champ with the Coastal Champ. Theoretically, it makes sense.

I am fine with re-doing the divisions, mixing them up, whatever, but I like divisions. For football, it works. For basketball, it doesn't make sense.

Here's an example of how wacky this could be:

Clemson 8-0
NC State 7-1
Pitt 6-2

Lets say NC State lost to Pitt and beat the ACC teams which finished 14th, 13th, 12th, 11th, 10th, 9th, and 8th while Pitt's losses were to Clemson and #4 Miami and their 6 wins were against #2, #5, #6, #7, #8, and #9. A divisionless ACC creates too much opportunity for this type of scheduling imbalance. I'm sure it will never be this extreme but it could get pretty close in some years. With divisions, you basically had a chance to right any wrongs. Yea, it sucks to get that crossover with Clemson but lose that and you still control your own destiny.
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SMF...I do believe that this the 2nd time that I agree with one of your posts. It scares me to admit that, but when you are right, you are right!!
 
there’s always going to be scheduling imbalance to some degree.

But there’s no argument that divisionless actually leads to more scheduling imbalance. It’s the best cure to imbalance.
 
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There's nothing wrong with it the way it is now, I like that maybe some mediocre team might jump up and challenge for a title, stuff like that is what makes sports interesting, if the best teams win all the titles, that's boring, What do you remember more 11 loss Nova beating #1 Georgetown in the NCAA Finals, or one of the many times THE GREAT UNC or Duke won it AS EXPECTED?
 
Having a championship game is a bit of a farce with no divisions, but speaking as a fan of a team that likely will finish second in the conference more often than we’ll finish first, I definitely want the ACC to keep having one. The worst that can happen is maybe we’re so far overmatched that our QB only throws for 8 yards…but at least we had the chance to be overmatched.
 
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The Ole Six-Fiver said:
Having a championship game is a bit of a farce with no divisions, but speaking as a fan of a team that likely will finish second in the conference more often than we’ll finish first, I definitely want the ACC to keep having one. The worst that can happen is maybe we’re so far overmatched that our QB only throws for 8 yards…but at least we had the chance to be overmatched.
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They really shouldn't even call it a championship game with no divisions. How could a 5-3 team which finished 2nd in the ACC be called a "champion" because they beat an 8-0 team in a random game. 1 team won the regular season. The other beat the regular season champ in a random game but gets to be the champ. Its dumb.

I could be talked into keeping the divisions but having, say the Coastal Champ get booted out by some predetermined criteria. Like if FSU goes 11-1 and finishes 2nd in the Atlantic but Pitt wins the Coastal and goes 8-4, let FSU go.....but as a consolation for getting Bump, the Coastal Champ has to get the best ACC bowl
 
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Sean Miller Fan said:
For 1, what is the point of having a championship game between your regular season champion and a team that did not win the regular season championship. OK, 12-0 Clemson, you are the regular season champion, now go play 2nd place 8-4 FSU to determine the REAL champion. Yea, I know, the Coastal has produced 6-6 and 7-5 champs. However, they were CHAMPIONS. They won their 7 team division and their fans could wear champion jerseys. So to determine the REAL champ, you had to match the Atlantic Champ with the Coastal Champ. Theoretically, it makes sense.

I am fine with re-doing the divisions, mixing them up, whatever, but I like divisions. For football, it works. For basketball, it doesn't make sense.

Here's an example of how wacky this could be:

Clemson 8-0
NC State 7-1
Pitt 6-2

Lets say NC State lost to Pitt and beat the ACC teams which finished 14th, 13th, 12th, 11th, 10th, 9th, and 8th while Pitt's losses were to Clemson and #4 Miami and their 6 wins were against #2, #5, #6, #7, #8, and #9. A divisionless ACC creates too much opportunity for this type of scheduling imbalance. I'm sure it will never be this extreme but it could get pretty close in some years. With divisions, you basically had a chance to right any wrongs. Yea, it sucks to get that crossover with Clemson but lose that and you still control your own destiny.
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Schedule strength imbalance is a given. For most of the history of ACC divisions, the Atlantic has been tougher. The SEC West is a killer much tougher than the SEC East. The Big South was much tougher than the Big 12 North. The BT West is nothing to write home about, while the BT East is very tough.

The ACC needs to guarantee that its two top teams reach the CCG each season.
 
cashisking884 said:
there’s always going to be scheduling imbalance to some degree.

But there’s no argument that divisionless actually leads to more scheduling imbalance. It’s the best cure to imbalance.
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Of course, If each of must play all of us at least twice every 4 years, over every 23 year cycle all out league slates are as equal as they can be in any league larger than a round robin size.
 
Agree that it's kind of a contrived spectacle to determine a champion when one has already been determined, which a divisionless regular season does.

Granted, no one has a problem with it in basketball because it's "fun." Like, the celebration for whomever wins the ACC tournament (a feat that takes about four days) dwarfs the one for the regular season champion (the best team over four months) by quite a bit.
 
TheWerewolfFromTwilight said:
Agree that it's kind of a contrived spectacle to determine a champion when one has already been determined, which a divisionless regular season does.

Granted, no one has a problem with it in basketball because it's "fun." Like, the celebration for whomever wins the ACC tournament (a feat that takes about four days) dwarfs the one for the regular season champion (the best team over four months) by quite a bit.
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Its a tournament though and a mini season in itself. Much different.

One of my ideas is for the ACC to play a football tournament. 7 game regular season then 1 plays 4 and 2 plays 3. That produces a more legit champion. The other 10 play each other
 
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Sean Miller Fan said:
Yea but its still like 2 seasons. You get a regular season champ and a tournament champ.
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I don't see the tournament as a season. It's more like a weekend bender. About half the teams only play one game in it (or at least they did before they made 20 different bye tiers). And some teams have arguably tried to lose in the past in order to prepare for the NCAA Tournament.
 
TheWerewolfFromTwilight said:
I don't see the tournament as a season. It's more like a weekend bender. About half the teams only play one game in it (or at least they did before they made 20 different bye tiers). And some teams have arguably tried to lose in the past in order to prepare for the NCAA Tournament.
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I get all that. But for me and most people, we understand its something separate from the regular season. It doesn't define who the best team in the league was although they get the official "champion" title. For football, just taking the 2 best teams and telling them to play each other to determine the champion when the 1 team may have gone 12-0 and beat the 2nd place 8-4 team by 50 already just seems pointless.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
I get all that. But for me and most people, we understand its something separate from the regular season. It doesn't define who the best team in the league was although they get the official "champion" title. For football, just taking the 2 best teams and telling them to play each other to determine the champion when the 1 team may have gone 12-0 and beat the 2nd place 8-4 team by 50 already just seems pointless.
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Similarly, the NFL playoffs were pointless in 2007 when the New England Patriots went 16-0 and were, by far, the best team in the league.

It's almost as if you don't understand that the point of playoffs, all playoffs, in all sports, is to make money. If the ACC didn't make money from a football championship game they wouldn't have one. If the ACC didn't make money from the basketball tournament they wouldn't have one. If the NFL didn't make money from the playoffs they wouldn't have one. If the NHL didn't make money from the playoffs they wouldn't have one. And so on, and so on.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
I could be talked into keeping the divisions but having, say the Coastal Champ get booted out by some predetermined criteria. Like if FSU goes 11-1 and finishes 2nd in the Atlantic but Pitt wins the Coastal and goes 8-4, let FSU go.....but as a consolation for getting Bump, the Coastal Champ has to get the best ACC bowl
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No, what is this obsession with getting "the best" ? division champ, period, if the best division champ loses to them, then they deserve all the consequences, including being left out of the playoffs.
 
Pitt79 said:
No, what is this obsession with getting "the best" ? division champ, period, if the best division champ loses to them, then they deserve all the consequences, including being left out of the playoffs.
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what a weird take.

You don’t understand what is the point of having a championship game be between the two best teams?

You can disagree with that. That’s fine. But surely you understand the logic behind it?
 
A question I have is how many ACC Champ games would have been different not having Division champs play each other? Pitt/Wake last year would have been the result regardless.
 
recruitsreadtheseboards said:
A question I have is how many ACC Champ games would have been different not having Division champs play each other? Pitt/Wake last year would have been the result regardless.
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Difficult to say because the schedule would be entirely different. But probably most of them.

Clemson-FSU probably would have played a ton during the Jimbo years and now into the peak Dabo years.
 
Has the ACC management said why this is being considered? It seems obvious to me that they’re looking for a reason to reopen the tv deals.
 
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cashisking884 said:
what a weird take.

You don’t understand what is the point of having a championship game be between the two best teams?

You can disagree with that. That’s fine. But surely you understand the logic behind it?
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No I don't, I'm sure VERY, VERY, VERY often the finals in the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, March Madness, WC Soccer, do not always have the two best teams involved, you often have qualifiers based on set divisions, often the best teams or better teams get upset, lots of reasons why it's not always the 2 best teams.
 
The sports mental aspect is often very critical. Getting yourself up mentally for playing a clearly worse team on paper that you’re expected to destroy. It seems the oldest story in sports that so called superior teams take winning for granted, and they get knocked on their cans. Just think how many times that happens to Pitt alone.

It is one thing to finish a season of attrition in first place, but another when you play for a ‘championship’ in a tournament. Just the word itself adds a bit of spice and makes the palms sweat a bit. A true champion may not the best team over 6 grinding months but gets it done ‘when it matters’, the championship game, however contrived it may be. But, most important, it raises money, gets the conference on national TV, and gives a team much more likely to finish second than first year in and year out, in a conference that features Clemson, a chance to steal a championship (hint, that team would be ours).
 
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What's funny when the original ACC raid and expansion happened, the ACC split Miami and FSU. Clemson and VT. Figuring pretty much any year the ACC Champ game was going to have some version of those 4 fighting it out. Pitt has managed to play in as many ACC Championship games as Miami has. FSU dominated then fell off a cliff. Clemson took over for FSU. And VT has been no better than Pitt/UNC etc....

You know what is funny, for as much as Pitt had let down the Big East in football, it has actually been one of, maybe the most successful school to switch conferences. Who woulda thunk it?
 
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Joe the Panther Fan said:
Similarly, the NFL playoffs were pointless in 2007 when the New England Patriots went 16-0 and were, by far, the best team in the league.

It's almost as if you don't understand that the point of playoffs, all playoffs, in all sports, is to make money. If the ACC didn't make money from a football championship game they wouldn't have one. If the ACC didn't make money from the basketball tournament they wouldn't have one. If the NFL didn't make money from the playoffs they wouldn't have one. If the NHL didn't make money from the playoffs they wouldn't have one. And so on, and so on.
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That was a tournament. Tournaments are different than the regular season.
 
This is a time we should follow the sec and big 10. Wait until they go this route. No need to follow a dying big 12 format.
 
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Dointhatrag said:
This is a time we should follow the sec and big 10. Wait until they go this route. No need to follow a dying big 12 format.
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If the reason is mostly to play teams more often, I like my old idea:

ACC North
Pitt
Syr
BC
Lou

ACC Central
UVa
VT
UNC
NC St
Duke

ACC South
Wake
GT
FSU
Clemson
Miami

2 of the 3 champs play in the ACCCG. Play the other teams more often.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
Yes. And obviously so.

I mean surely you aren't going to argue that what makes a tournament a tournament is the way that the teams that play in it are selected, are you?
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A tournament is 4 or more teams. A divisionless ACC Football Championship is neither a tournament, nor a champion vs champion event. Its the regular season champ vs a team which has won nothing.....to determine a champion and that's stupid.
 
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Dointhatrag said:
This is a time we should follow the sec and big 10. Wait until they go this route. No need to follow a dying big 12 format.
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The SEC would be doing it this year if the Big 12 would allow Tex and OU out immediately.

The ACC is a dying conference. It can’t follow the ACC format if it wants to have any chance to survive.
 
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cashisking884 said:
The SEC would be doing it this year if the Big 12 would allow Tex and OU out immediately.

The ACC is a dying conference. It can’t follow the ACC format if it wants to have any chance to survive.
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Please explain how it's dying ? Because they make less than the Big 10 and SEC ? what else is new.
 
BreakingPitt said:
Please explain how it's dying ? Because they make less than the Big 10 and SEC ? what else is new.
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That's the growing sentiment. Especially after some comments by the B1G. I don't know that I necessarily agree because TV has a valid reason to keep it together, at least for now, but at some point, you could see a consolidation. I'm not sure I'd want Pitt to be part of "major league college football" if it became another pro league, though, and I doubt Pitt's admin would want to bother.
 
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