How can this loser be in?
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...ania-Sports-Hall-of-Fame/stories/201506160193
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...ania-Sports-Hall-of-Fame/stories/201506160193
If Pete Rose Isn't In....
- Thread starter pittfan67
- Start date
Still pissed he died when he did. Would have loved yo have seen him indicted. Honestly, seeing him in handcuffs would have been the greatest moment of my life. A lot of secrets were buried with that piece of garbage
I'm not a fan of JoePa, but he did win the most games, those games actually happened. Ihate "vacating" wins, it's stupid, it's denying reality. I personally want Pete Rose and Barry Bonds in the MLB HofF, because they actually hit those balls and piled up those stats, and are the legit hits and HR leaders. As far as Bonds, he was never proven guilty by MLB, and at the time, there was no testing and no written rules, and when the testing started he was never busted by a league test. So I'm good with all these people getting in. JoePa likely knew about Sandusky and didn't do much, but he actually did win those games, that's reality.
Yeah... Pitt79, we know all about your posting... no surprise you like JoePa
I don't like JoePa, never did. But I'm a realist, I have little or no emotion, he did win those games, and I'm man enough to give him credit.
I don't know what you're isinuating, but nobody here is a bigger Pitt fan than me. Pretending JoePa didn't win a lot of games doesn't make you a bigger Pitt fan.
Hey, Hitler built good roads, that's THE TRUTH.
I don't know what you're isinuating, but nobody here is a bigger Pitt fan than me. Pretending JoePa didn't win a lot of games doesn't make you a bigger Pitt fan.
Hey, Hitler built good roads, that's THE TRUTH.
Cool, then Hitler, JoePa and Bonds can sit next to you in the afterlife
Pitt79, I have to disagree. Records are records, and they speak for themselves. Paterno's win total was reduced, then put back; whatever. Pete Rose can point to his records whenever he wants, and we can't deny he has the most hits ever.
But a Hall of Fame honors players who deserve respect, and guys like Pete Rose don't deserve our respect, or to be honored. Not only did he repeatedly break the cardinal rule of baseball (or any sport for that matter), he lied about it for 25 years. He repeatedly lied to the commissioner and looked into the camera and lied to the public over the 25 years, assuming that baseball would cave in eventually. Then when the Hall clock was about to expire, he decided his lying wasn't ever going to work, so he said f' it, I'll tell the truth, and hoped they were pathetic enough to let him in.
I'm not a big rules guy, but really, if you are going to let guys with so little character as Rose into the Hall of Fame, you might as well just shut the thing down.
But a Hall of Fame honors players who deserve respect, and guys like Pete Rose don't deserve our respect, or to be honored. Not only did he repeatedly break the cardinal rule of baseball (or any sport for that matter), he lied about it for 25 years. He repeatedly lied to the commissioner and looked into the camera and lied to the public over the 25 years, assuming that baseball would cave in eventually. Then when the Hall clock was about to expire, he decided his lying wasn't ever going to work, so he said f' it, I'll tell the truth, and hoped they were pathetic enough to let him in.
I'm not a big rules guy, but really, if you are going to let guys with so little character as Rose into the Hall of Fame, you might as well just shut the thing down.
I guess that being fired in disgrace from a state position doesn't keep a person from being elected to the PA Hall of Fame.
Pghfan, I'm pissed too, the thought of him burning in hell isn't enough, I'm serious.
Fired by his employer (twice) for “not doing enough to stop a pedophile” and orchestrating a cover up & is elected into the state HOF!
Really?
Sad day for PA residents
Really?
Sad day for PA residents
From Grand Jury testimony and my comments:
Q: As that football coach at the Pennsylvania State University, did you have as employed under you an individual by the name of Jerry Sandusky?
Mr. Paterno: I did for a while, yes.
Comment: if 20 years is "a while" then I've missed something in life.
.......
Q: Without getting into any graphic detail, what did Mr. McQueary tell you he had seen and where?
Mr. Paterno: Well, he had seen a person, an older, not an older, but a mature person who was fondling, whatever you might call it âm not sure what the term would be a young boy.
Comment: Here is a man who has made a living recruiting kids 16-18 and coaching 18-23 year old and he doesn't know what to call a "boy"/
.....
Q: Did he identify who that older person was?
Mr. Paterno: Yes, a man by the name of Jerry Sandusky who had been one of our coaches, was not at the time.
Comment: But Sandusky had unlimited access to our facilities just as all non-employees do? We even let him use the shower because, you know, that is a typical thing we do for all
non-employees.
.....
Q: I think you used the term fondling. Is that the term that you used?
Mr. Paterno: Well, I don't know what you would call it. Obviously, he was doing something with the youngster.It was a sexual nature. I'm not sure exactly what it was.
I didn't push Mike to describe exactly what it was because he was very upset. Obviously, I was in a little bit of a dilemma since Mr. Sandusky was not working for me anymore.
So I told , I didn't go any further than that except I knew Mike was upset and I knew some kind of inappropriate action was being taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster.
Comment: Mike was upset??? what about the boy? Oh and while it isn't being mentioned, this was in our football building.....not the creamery, but maybe it should have been? Imagine my dilemna mr. attorney. Here I am being told of a crime committed against a "young boy" on our property by someone who was not our employee but was using the facility with our permission. What do you do in situations where a crime is being committed???well I did what I always do.....I keep it to myself because we don't have 911 or CYS here in Centre County. I am the law here.
....
Q: Did Mike McQueary tell you where he had seen this inappropriate conduct take place?
Mr. Paterno: In the shower.
Q: Where was the shower?
Mr. Paterno: In the Lasch Building.
Q: Is that on the campus of Penn State University?
Mr. Paterno: It's right on the campus.
Comment: To be truthful, it is known as the Lasche Football building and it borders our practice facility....it is where I have my office .
....
Mr. Paterno: I don' know whether I was specific or not. I did tell Mike, Mike, you did what was right; you told me.Even though Jerry does not work for the football staff any longer, I would refer his concerns to the right people.
Comment: Because as every school child knows, you never call the police to report a crime, especially when it is someone who doesn't work for you.
.....
Q: When did you do something with that information?
Mr. Paterno: Well, I can't be precise.
I ordinarily would have called people right away, but it was a Saturday morning and I didn't want to interfere with their weekends.
So I don't know whether I did it Saturday or did it early the next week.
I'm not sure when, but I did it within the week
Comment: This is the most sickening excuse imagineable. The "right people" didn't inlcude police or CYS or anyone to protect kids!!!! But then, I waited because I might "interfere" with weekends? Think of all the good sex Jerry could have while Joe waited.....interrupt that???? Nah...not holy Joe....
Success with honor?
What a sad excuse for a human being.
He belongs in the Hall of Shame.
To me the records are everything, to me the HofF is for whoever was THE BEST PLAYER, ON THE FIELD, not the best person, or the guy who signed autographs for sick kids. By today's standards you'd probably leave out Cobb and Ruth. The hall is for great players, not the best character guys.
At this point.....I no longer care. I have suffered from Paternofatigue. Who cares? I am not visiting the place.
Yeah, but that is only because he was trying to bet on the perp or the victim and was getting odds.
I agree with that for sure! I don't know how some of these people still wake up in the morning 3-4 years later still obsessing over news about LONG DEAD TURNED TO DUST JoePa and PedState?
I don't think any Hall of Fame should be for the best character guys either. I agree that it should be for the best players. But its for the best players who haven't committed absolutely unforgiveable acts. Any player or manager today knows, and its been reinforced by Rose's exclusion from the Hall, that you can't bet on the game without getting banned from the game. Let Rose in, and baseball is announcing that the crime is not taken seriously.
Well, I again disagree -- gambling on baseball (or any sport) while you are a player or manager absolutely does deserve the death sentence. Its the only crime in sports that does, but it clear does deserve it. The integrity of the game itself is questioned if people think that players/managers are betting on it.
I agree Rose should never be allowed in baseball again, but the HOF is a different animal entirely. A baseball HOF without Rose, Bonds, Clemens, etc is a joke. Remember that the HOF didn't have a rule to exclude people from baseball's permanently ineligible list from consideration until AFTER Rose got caught.
I went to the school of ignorance and arrogance on this question.....I Don't Know and I Don't Care!
Let others decide and no offense taken or given either way they feel or vote.
LINK:
Report: Pete Rose gambled on baseball as player
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25221751/report-pete-rose-gambled-on-baseball-as-player
From the ESPN article: Dowd's investigation had established that Rose was hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at the time he was banished from the game. "Bertolini nails down the connection to organized crime on Long Island and New York. ... the boys in New York are about breaking arms and knees.
"The implications for baseball are terrible. [The mob] had a mortgage on Pete while he was a player and manager."
Still want to put him in the HOF? If so, let's have a mob boss do the introduction.
"The implications for baseball are terrible. [The mob] had a mortgage on Pete while he was a player and manager."
Still want to put him in the HOF? If so, let's have a mob boss do the introduction.
I know all there is to know about Rose. And yeah, he should be in the Hall of Fame. Because I can seperate Rose the baseball player from Rose the person who is a scumbag. He should be in the HOF because of what he did as a player. He should be banned from ever being in the game again because of the gambling.
However if we want to invoke the "character" clause to exclude people like Rose, Bonds, etc from the HOF I would be fine with that too, under one condition. Let's not stop with keeping guys like Rose out. Let's get rid of all the people who are already in who were far worse than Rose. For instance Ty Cobb is one of the five best baseball players of all time. And he was evil. Not a "bad person", "evil". A HOF that uses a character clause to keep out someone like Rose but includes Cobb is a joke.
And then lets get into the druggies. If we are going to keep out Bonds and Clemens and others for using illegal PEDs that's fine, but why are we stopping there? Nearly every single person who played baseball from at least the mid-50s through maybe 5-10 years ago used illegal PEDs. And that's not an exaggeration. Those superstars that everyone loves from the 50s, 60s and 70s? Yeah, drug users. There is at least one statue (at LEAST one) outside PNC Park of an admitted PED user. If we are keeping guys out for PEDs then great, but lets not be hypocrites about it and lets get them ALL out.
Once the HOF (and more specifically, the writers doing the voting) decided that things that guys today have done should keep them out while never holding the heroes of their youth to the same standard the HOF became a joke. If only on the field stuff matters (and that's how it should be) then there are lots of recent guys who should be in. If the "off the field" stuff matters, then there are a whole lot more people who are in who need to be removed. Or, the HOF can remain a joke, one or the other.
However if we want to invoke the "character" clause to exclude people like Rose, Bonds, etc from the HOF I would be fine with that too, under one condition. Let's not stop with keeping guys like Rose out. Let's get rid of all the people who are already in who were far worse than Rose. For instance Ty Cobb is one of the five best baseball players of all time. And he was evil. Not a "bad person", "evil". A HOF that uses a character clause to keep out someone like Rose but includes Cobb is a joke.
And then lets get into the druggies. If we are going to keep out Bonds and Clemens and others for using illegal PEDs that's fine, but why are we stopping there? Nearly every single person who played baseball from at least the mid-50s through maybe 5-10 years ago used illegal PEDs. And that's not an exaggeration. Those superstars that everyone loves from the 50s, 60s and 70s? Yeah, drug users. There is at least one statue (at LEAST one) outside PNC Park of an admitted PED user. If we are keeping guys out for PEDs then great, but lets not be hypocrites about it and lets get them ALL out.
Once the HOF (and more specifically, the writers doing the voting) decided that things that guys today have done should keep them out while never holding the heroes of their youth to the same standard the HOF became a joke. If only on the field stuff matters (and that's how it should be) then there are lots of recent guys who should be in. If the "off the field" stuff matters, then there are a whole lot more people who are in who need to be removed. Or, the HOF can remain a joke, one or the other.
If you throw Cobb out of the HoF because he was a racist, then you need to throw out just about every member of his era and before.
I am a huge fan of Christy Mathewson and have read extensively about him. Today, Matty is nearly universally considered a saint and was even nicknamed "The Christian Gentleman" during his time.Yet, according to Ray Robinson's excellent biography of Mathewson, his views on race were neither better nor worse than the times in which he lived. Mathewson unquestionably considered African-Americans to be inferior to whites -- and that is from an educated man considered a saint of his era..
I am also a huge fan of Ed Delahanty (one of only three men to ever to bat .400 three times). In Jerrold Casway's fascinating book on Delahanty -- "Ed Delahanty in the Emerald Age of Baseball" -- Casway talked about the Phillies teams of the 1890s traveling with a series of black mascots. The duties of said mascots would typically be menial tasks such as shining players' shoes or carrying their bags. In exchange for such tasks, the players would usually give their mascots some leftover food or a few coins.
Since many of the players was highly superstitious, it was not unusual for the team to abandon its mascot in a faraway city during a losing streak and find a new "good-luck" mascot.
I am a huge fan of Christy Mathewson and have read extensively about him. Today, Matty is nearly universally considered a saint and was even nicknamed "The Christian Gentleman" during his time.Yet, according to Ray Robinson's excellent biography of Mathewson, his views on race were neither better nor worse than the times in which he lived. Mathewson unquestionably considered African-Americans to be inferior to whites -- and that is from an educated man considered a saint of his era..
I am also a huge fan of Ed Delahanty (one of only three men to ever to bat .400 three times). In Jerrold Casway's fascinating book on Delahanty -- "Ed Delahanty in the Emerald Age of Baseball" -- Casway talked about the Phillies teams of the 1890s traveling with a series of black mascots. The duties of said mascots would typically be menial tasks such as shining players' shoes or carrying their bags. In exchange for such tasks, the players would usually give their mascots some leftover food or a few coins.
Since many of the players was highly superstitious, it was not unusual for the team to abandon its mascot in a faraway city during a losing streak and find a new "good-luck" mascot.
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That is hardly the only reason to throw Cobb out. He intentionally hurt opponents. He went into the stands on more than one occasion to assault fans. He beat the crap out of numerous people who had the temerity to get him mad when off the field. He'd have been in jail on numerous occasions if he played in an era when being Ty Cobb didn't preclude him getting arrested.
There's a reason for the line in Field of Dreams when Joe Jackson is talking about all the guys who wanted to play ball with them and he says "Ty Cobb wanted to play, but none of us could stand the son of a bitch when he was alive so we told him to stick it!" And it's not because Cobb was simply a virulent racist, because as you point out that didn't bother many of the guys he played with and against.
Eh...so much of Cobb's reputation today is based on the claims of Al Stump, who has been proven to have fabricated much of his book that inspired the "Cobb" movie. Cobb was obviously a racist, but two new books have come out about in recent months that dispute much of Stump's claims and long-held myths about Cobb.
http://www.amazon.com/Ty-Cobb-Terri...e=UTF8&qid=1435030670&sr=1-1&keywords=ty+cobb
http://www.amazon.com/War-Basepaths...e=UTF8&qid=1435030670&sr=1-3&keywords=ty+cobb
As for Field of Dreams, it is a great movie, but hardly a paragon of truth. The "Shoeless" Joe Jackson in Field of Dreams was a saintly version of the real man. Field of Dreams didn't show Shoeless Joe complaining that he received only $5,000 of the $20,000 he was promised, or attending burlesque shows or frequently imbibing grain alcohol.
http://www.amazon.com/Ty-Cobb-Terri...e=UTF8&qid=1435030670&sr=1-1&keywords=ty+cobb
http://www.amazon.com/War-Basepaths...e=UTF8&qid=1435030670&sr=1-3&keywords=ty+cobb
As for Field of Dreams, it is a great movie, but hardly a paragon of truth. The "Shoeless" Joe Jackson in Field of Dreams was a saintly version of the real man. Field of Dreams didn't show Shoeless Joe complaining that he received only $5,000 of the $20,000 he was promised, or attending burlesque shows or frequently imbibing grain alcohol.
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I did not know much of what others posted here, since I am no longer a Baseball fan, but it was educational and I thank you very much for it.
Because Joe did not bet on baseball......Had Pete somehow enabled a pedophile within the Reds organization to continue his evil through inaction and doing the absolute minimum and not bet on baseball he would be in the HOF.....
Thanks...but I would be nothing without the immortal words one the late Joseph Vincent Paterno uttered under oath....Truth is almost always stranger than fiction isn't it fellas?
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