In depth read on the decline of high school basketball...

[thebadby2]

in Michigan, which is emblematic of what's going on with it everywhere else.

I grew up in metro Detroit in the 80s and 90s where Michigan was second to none in producing elite hoops talent. Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, Lansing, Benton Harbor, the Detroit suburbs-all hotbeds of major basketball talent. Great HS programs, coaches and summer leagues. Back in the day a few of my buddies and I used to pick out the match ups between teams with the best players and go enjoy the show. I have watched it slowly eroding to a shadow of its former self. Still a fair amount of D-1 talent and usually an elite player or three, but nothing like it used to be.

I really think the AAU scene and the proliferation of diploma mill prep programs are the biggest culprits in siphoning the best players away from their high schools and good coaches. The players are more athletic but less skilled than they used to be. Big men don't have the offensive fundamentals they once needed to be effective at the next level. It's really out of hand, worse than it has ever been.

Here's the link: /http://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...-column-michigan-basketball-decline/27454251/

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

AAU problem of too many games and not enough skill development is hugely detrimental to the game of basketball in the U.S. Not only does the AAU scene lead to much sleezier recruiting scenarios but it is seriously detrimental to player skill development as mentioned in the article. A relative of mine, a former NBA player and coach and currently an NBA scout has been telling me the latter for years.

 

[Harve74]

AAU problem of too many games and not enough skill development is hugely detrimental to the game of basketball in the U.S. Not only does the AAU scene lead to much sleezier recruiting scenarios but it is seriously detrimental to player skill development as mentioned in the article. A relative of mine, a former NBA player and coach and currently an NBA scout has been telling me the latter for years.

I believe the proliferation of diploma mills and repeated transfers of high school kids in search of optimum playing time and individual achievement fosters a cult of "me-first" attitudes expecting immediate success and selfish play, instead of skills development and teamwork. The attitude has led to an all-time high in transfers in college too. If kids don't see instant success, many just move to another team instead of working to get better.

It really is exactly the opposite of the player development model Dixon has previously used here. The argument could be made that the spread of the cult of the individual among top players actually opens the door for teams like Wisconsin and potentially Pitt, because the 4th and 5th year former 3-stars will likely never have to compete with truly mature 5-stars becuse those elite players will have moved on before their games are fully devloped.

But, overall, there seems no question that it is harmful to the quality of American basketball overall. Athleticism is at an all-time high but few players seem to have worked on fundamental skills.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I believe the proliferation of diploma mills and repeated transfers of high school kids in search of optimum playing time and individual achievement fosters a cult of "me-first" attitudes expecting immediate success and selfish play, instead of skills development and teamwork. The attitude has led to an all-time high in transfers in college too. If kids don't see instant success, many just move to another team instead of working to get better.

It really is exactly the opposite of the player development model Dixon has previously used here. The argument could be made that the spread of the cult of the individual among top players actually opens the door for teams like Wisconsin and potentially Pitt, because the 4th and 5th year former 3-stars will likely never have to compete with truly mature 5-stars becuse those elite players will have moved on before their games are fully devloped.

But, overall, there seems no question that it is harmful to the quality of American basketball overall. Athleticism is at an all-time high but few players seem to have worked on fundamental skills.

Yeah, what is almost completely missing from the game now? A mid range jump shot. It is either take it strong to the hoop, or shoot 3 pointers. The 15 footer is about as passé as the set shot.

I think since this article is Michigan specific, what also needs to be acknowledged is that Detroit has a like 30% HS graduation rate, and inner city schools in Flint and Saginaw are not much better. Michigan is in my territory, and I spend a lot of time there. It is pretty rough (obviously) and some of these kids only chances are these AAU and "prep" school, diploma mills. Because the inner city schools and infrastructure is a disaster. I think we see similar occurrences in Chicago, NY, Balt/DC because they are not putting as many players in college as they used to, and former public HS's like Saginaw, Detroit Cass, Mt. Vernon, NY, Rice in NYC, Dunbar in DC, some of the catholic schools not like the St Anthony's who nationally recruits, but like Roman Catholic in Philly, Christ the King in NYC, etc... now the USA Top 25 are all of these Findlay Prep, Monterverde, Our Saviour, etc......these "schools" that just seem to pop up out of nowhere to join the Oak Hill Academy's of the world.

I think there are just not as many kids, not just population wise, but in school after 9th grade (sadly) to even play basketball.

 

[JS School]

Was Barton hired to attract prep school players, and now Williamson to go after AAU players? Maybe Dixon should go back to identifying typical high school kids with skills and who know how to play team basketball and let other programs battle over the teenage superstars. I'm looking forward to seeing how last year's freshmen progress over the next three years.

 

[Harve74]

Yeah, what is almost completely missing from the game now? A mid range jump shot. It is either take it strong to the hoop, or shoot 3 pointers. The 15 footer is about as passé as the set shot.

I think since this article is Michigan specific, what also needs to be acknowledged is that Detroit has a like 30% HS graduation rate, and inner city schools in Flint and Saginaw are not much better. Michigan is in my territory, and I spend a lot of time there. It is pretty rough (obviously) and some of these kids only chances are these AAU and "prep" school, diploma mills. Because the inner city schools and infrastructure is a disaster. I think we see similar occurrences in Chicago, NY, Balt/DC because they are not putting as many players in college as they used to, and former public HS's like Saginaw, Detroit Cass, Mt. Vernon, NY, Rice in NYC, Dunbar in DC, some of the catholic schools not like the St Anthony's who nationally recruits, but like Roman Catholic in Philly, Christ the King in NYC, etc... now the USA Top 25 are all of these Findlay Prep, Monterverde, Our Saviour, etc......these "schools" that just seem to pop up out of nowhere to join the Oak Hill Academy's of the world.

I think there are just not as many kids, not just population wise, but in school after 9th grade (sadly) to even play basketball.

There is certainly an analogous situation in inner city high schools in other cities than Detroit. NYC, DC, Boston, etc suffer from the same problems. We're not going to solve the nation's socioeconomic problems on a basketball message board

I'm not as concerned with mid-range jump shots as I am with say, drop steps or other post-up moves. Basic, fundamental skills are lacking. The game SHOULD be more than attacking the rim and 3-pointers.

Ironically, many NBA teams, with their new advanced statistics-heavy analyses, are returnng to te old fundamentals of ball movement, although analyzing it with the weighting bias inherent to the 3-pt shot. There's an interesting article on ESPN.com talking about how the Atlanta PG could use the package to help analyze every step of a play. Each decision adds or subtracts value of every step of every possession.

Yeah, NBA guys are being taught the intracacies of the team game, but they are the best of the best. Kids used to be drilled on stuff like this in high school.

High school players hardly exist Or have any influence, anyway. Most kids are committedbefore thrir senior years, in the summer, not while they're in contact with their high schools., The role of high school coach has been reduced and almost effectively eliminated. . Kids are influnced or controlled by their AAU coaches or handlers.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

There is certainly an analogous situation in inner city high schools in other cities than Detroit. NYC, DC, Boston, etc suffer from the same problems. We're not going to solve the nation's socioeconomic problems on a basketball message board

I'm not as concerned with mid-range jump shots as I am with say, drop steps or other post-up moves. Basic, fundamental skills are lacking. The game SHOULD be more than attacking the rim and 3-pointers.

Ironically, many NBA teams, with their new advanced statistics-heavy analyses, are returnng to te old fundamentals of ball movement, although analyzing it with the weighting bias inherent to the 3-pt shot. There's an interesting article on ESPN.com talking about how the Atlanta PG could use the package to help analyze every step of a play. Each decision adds or subtracts value of every step of every possession.

Yeah, NBA guys are being taught the intracacies of the team game, but they are the best of the best. Kids used to be drilled on stuff like this in high school.

High school players hardly exist Or have any influence, anyway. Most kids are committedbefore thrir senior years, in the summer, not while they're in contact with their high schools., The role of high school coach has been reduced and almost effectively eliminated. . Kids are influnced or controlled by their AAU coaches or handlers.

It is not that the HS coaches are that diminished. Let's face it, a lot of HS coaches, well suck. It is that the AAU or the Diploma Mill Prep schools are nothing more than Handlers and Gatherers of talent, hustlers, who can't coach.

We also talk about how international players seem to be more skilled (basketball wise) and fundamentally sound than US bred stars, but let's face it, they aren't learning these fundamentals in high school either, are they? They are learning them with essentially an AAU like set up with those club teams in different countries.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

in Michigan, which is emblematic of what's going on with it everywhere else.

I grew up in metro Detroit in the 80s and 90s where Michigan was second to none in producing elite hoops talent. Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, Lansing, Benton Harbor, the Detroit suburbs-all hotbeds of major basketball talent. Great HS programs, coaches and summer leagues. Back in the day a few of my buddies and I used to pick out the match ups between teams with the best players and go enjoy the show. I have watched it slowly eroding to a shadow of its former self. Still a fair amount of D-1 talent and usually an elite player or three, but nothing like it used to be.

I really think the AAU scene and the proliferation of diploma mill prep programs are the biggest culprits in siphoning the best players away from their high schools and good coaches. The players are more athletic but less skilled than they used to be. Big men don't have the offensive fundamentals they once needed to be effective at the next level. It's really out of hand, worse than it has ever been.

Here's the link: /http://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...-column-michigan-basketball-decline/27454251/

I also think that it develops the character of a young man to actually grow up playing ball with his friends and then playing HS ball for his hometown team..........with his buddies for his SCHOOL. You rarely see top recruits play for the HS where their family lives. They're either shipped to out-of-state private schools or prep schools where they are treated like professional athletes instead of students. The process of leading your lesser-skilled hometown team deep into a state tournament can help develop leadership skills, character, and humility. And that's missing in a lot of these players.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I also think that it develops the character of a young man to actually grow up playing ball with his friends and then playing HS ball for his hometown team..........with his buddies for his SCHOOL. You rarely see top recruits play for the HS where their family lives. They're either shipped to out-of-state private schools or prep schools where they are treated like professional athletes instead of students. The process of leading your lesser-skilled hometown team deep into a state tournament can help develop leadership skills, character, and humility. And that's missing in a lot of these players.

I agree with this. But almost every hockey player at these same ages "goes away" and they are considered the most grounded of athletes. And before you all say "but hockey isn't idolized like football or basketball", remember in Canada where a lot of these kids come from, it is BOTH football and basketball, with baseball on top of it as importance.

But yeah, I agree with you. I would think there is a lot to be gained with growing up in your community and competing against other rivalries, with a lot of pride on the line, you tend to be less selfish as you are playing also for your teammates (friends) and the community aside from yourself or being a hired gun.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I agree with this. But almost every hockey player at these same ages "goes away" and they are considered the most grounded of athletes. And before you all say "but hockey isn't idolized like football or basketball", remember in Canada where a lot of these kids come from, it is BOTH football and basketball, with baseball on top of it as importance.

But yeah, I agree with you. I would think there is a lot to be gained with growing up in your community and competing against other rivalries, with a lot of pride on the line, you tend to be less selfish as you are playing also for your teammates (friends) and the community aside from yourself or being a hired gun.

Really good point about Canadian hockey players. I think you're right that they are considered more "grounded" under similar circumstances. However, I believe these hockey players turn pro at 15 and 16 and play junior hockey and since their draft rights and future is controlled by the NHL and not some D1 college, there is no incentive for their handlers, hangers-on, or entourages, to "advise" them. Inotherwords, there's no behind-the-scenes money to be made off these hockey players. They're already pros.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

It is not that the HS coaches are that diminished. Let's face it, a lot of HS coaches, well suck. It is that the AAU or the Diploma Mill Prep schools are nothing more than Handlers and Gatherers of talent, hustlers, who can't coach.

We also talk about how international players seem to be more skilled (basketball wise) and fundamentally sound than US bred stars, but let's face it, they aren't learning these fundamentals in high school either, are they? They are learning them with essentially an AAU like set up with those club teams in different countries.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Different system in Europe than our AAU. They are actually taught and practice skills and don't just play game after game after game.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Really good point about Canadian hockey players. I think you're right that they are considered more "grounded" under similar circumstances. However, I believe these hockey players turn pro at 15 and 16 and play junior hockey and since their draft rights and future is controlled by the NHL and not some D1 college, there is no incentive for their handlers, hangers-on, or entourages, to "advise" them. Inotherwords, there's no behind-the-scenes money to be made off these hockey players. They're already pros.

Great point.