Is it fixable?

[thebadby2]

Forget about by Capel. I’m talking about for any coach, given the depths to which the program has sunk, and the real world challenges facing Pitt as a basketball school? Or is the program too far gone at this point, and are the hurdles too high to overcome?

If you think it’s fixable, what would it take and who could do it? Could Pitt even get the type of coach that would have a shot at getting it done? Where are the recruits that can elevate the program going to come from? Pitt is a fish out of water as a northeastern city school that now finds itself trying to fit in on Tobacco Road. If Capel with his background and ACC chops can’t bring them in, who can?

I have always believed the right coach can turn around any program, and that the right coach for any program is out there somewhere. And it’s not just the name guys or flavor of the week. It might be somebody that wasn’t a hot commodity and that we’ve never heard of, like Howland was.

After what has happened at a Pitt over the last several years, I don’t really feel that way anymore.

 

[iMissTheOldDayss]

We absolutely should be better than this

 

[pittjas]

Yes. We won’t be a consistent Top 10 team again but we 100% can be relevant again with the right coach. All that matters basically is the coach.

And it shouldn’t even have to take very long. 2 years and we can be respectable. hell with the portal we can be competitive next year if we get the right guy.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Forget about by Capel. I’m talking about for any coach, given the depths to which the program has sunk, and the real world challenges facing Pitt as a basketball school? Or is the program too far gone at this point, and are the hurdles too high to overcome?

If you think it’s fixable, what would it take and who could do it? Could Pitt even get the type of coach that would have a shot at getting it done? Where are the recruits that can elevate the program going to come from? Pitt is a fish out of water as a northeastern city school that now finds itself trying to fit in on Tobacco Road. If Capel with his background and ACC chops can’t bring them in, who can?

I have always believed the right coach can turn around any program, and that the right coach for any program is out there somewhere. And it’s not just the name guys or flavor of the week. It might be somebody that wasn’t a hot commodity and that we’ve never heard of, like Howland was.

After what has happened at a Pitt over the last several years, I don’t really feel that way anymore.

Good lord, yes. Hire the right coach and we're in the NCAA Tournament in 2 years like Wake Forest. You need 3 good players and a few more half-decent role players. Its easy. We make it look hard.

 

[pittjas]

Good lord, yes. Hire the right coach and we're in the NCAA Tournament in 2 years like Wake Forest. You need 3 good players and a few more half-decent role players. Its easy. We make it look hard.

Confused how Iowa St and Wake are having success so quickly with coaches they hired from *gasp* UNLV AND EAST TENNESSEE ST !!

Don’t they know you have to hire a GUARANTEE??!?!?!?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Confused how Iowa St and Wake are having success so quickly with coaches they hired from *gasp* UNLV AND EAST TENNESSEE ST !!

Don’t they know you have to hire a GUARANTEE??!?!?!?

UNLV is a high major

Forbes was extreme luck. They hit on their lottery ticket. A MM coach had about 75% failure rate. You'd rather go with that than a guarantee

 

[pittchagg]

Forget about by Capel. I’m talking about for any coach, given the depths to which the program has sunk, and the real world challenges facing Pitt as a basketball school? Or is the program too far gone at this point, and are the hurdles too high to overcome?

If you think it’s fixable, what would it take and who could do it? Could Pitt even get the type of coach that would have a shot at getting it done? Where are the recruits that can elevate the program going to come from? Pitt is a fish out of water as a northeastern city school that now finds itself trying to fit in on Tobacco Road. If Capel with his background and ACC chops can’t bring them in, who can?

I have always believed the right coach can turn around any program, and that the right coach for any program is out there somewhere. And it’s not just the name guys or flavor of the week. It might be somebody that wasn’t a hot commodity and that we’ve never heard of, like Howland was.

After what has happened at a Pitt over the last several years, I don’t really feel that way anymore.

Yes, it is absolutely fixable, and the program is in a better place now than it was a few years ago. It’s very likely that Capel won’t be the guy that gets it done, but the program is better positioned for success now than when he got here (both for things he’s pushed for and things that would have happened no matter who the coach was).

But yes, it’s absolutely fixable, and the fix can happen pretty quickly. With the transfer portal lessening the impact of Pitt’s biggest structural weakness (a weak local recruiting pool), there are few reasons to think that Pitt isn’t a top half job in the ACC.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

UNLV is a high major

Forbes was extreme luck. They hit on their lottery ticket. A MM coach had about 75% failure rate. You'd rather go with that than a guarantee

UNLV isn’t anywhere close to a high major. It is 2022, not 1992.

Forbes wasn’t luck. People that understand the game knew he was a good coach.

 

[pittjas]

UNLV isn’t anywhere close to a high major. It is 2022, not 1992.

Forbes wasn’t luck. People that understand the game knew he was a good coach.

And Otzelberger didn’t even do that well there.

Idk why it’s so hard for SMF to understand… I’m not “in” the bball industry so I have to rely on those that are and articles but there’s so many good coaches out there and the ADs know who they are.

And then you just have to sift through those and figure out which have a plan that will work within the structure/limitations/advtantages that your program has.

When you look at it black and white like SMF does, you end up hiring duds like Stallings. Or talking yourself out of a good coach like Schmidt to hire Capel to win the press conference. (note: I would not have been happy with Schmidt then and he should not be a candidate now)

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yes, it is absolutely fixable, and the program is in a better place now than it was a few years ago. It’s very likely that Capel won’t be the guy that gets it done, but the program is better positioned for success now than when he got here (both for things he’s pushed for and things that would have happened no matter who the coach was).

But yes, it’s absolutely fixable, and the fix can happen pretty quickly. With the transfer portal lessening the impact of Pitt’s biggest structural weakness (a weak local recruiting pool), there are few reasons to think that Pitt isn’t a top half job in the ACC.

BballinsiderfromPitt says its the 2nd worst job in the league. For me:

1. Duke
2. UNC
3. Lou
4. Syracuse (even when Boeheim leaves, massive fan support and NE recruiting base)
5. UVa (post-Bennett lets say)
6. NC State

7 through 14 are all the same

Miami - no fans
FSU - no recruiting base, football school
Clemson - football school, no bball history
Wake - afterthought in NC
VT - see FSU and Clemson
ND - square peg in round hole
Pitt - no recruiting base

15. BC

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

UNLV is a high major

Forbes was extreme luck. They hit on their lottery ticket. A MM coach had about 75% failure rate. You'd rather go with that than a guarantee

UNLV is in a high major league and are typically a top-half team in it. They and the Mountain West are anything but "mid-major."

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

UNLV is in a high major league and are typically a top-half team in it. They and the Mountain West are anything but "mid-major."

San Jose St and New Mexico are high major. Who knew?

UNLV is in 7th place.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

San Jose St and New Mexico are high major. Who knew?

UNLV is in 7th place.

New Mexico is an excellent program. San Jose State is a terrible program in a high major league so they're probably the worst high major program.

 

[pittjas]

New Mexico is an excellent program. San Jose State is a terrible program in a high major league so they're probably the worst high major program.

Lol New Mexico is 7-12 and 177 on KenPom

Meanwhile Col St is 15-1 but Nico Medved is just another lottery ticket.

Utah St actually is 71 and has played a bunch of close games against good teams

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Lol New Mexico is 7-12 and 177 on KenPom

Meanwhile Col St is 15-1 but Nico Medved is just another lottery ticket.

Utah St actually is 71 and has played a bunch of close games against good teams

Did I not say Colorado State was a high major program? They are NOT a MM. And why did you type New Mexico's 21-22 record? They are historically one of the better programs in the West.

 

[BFo8]

I see a good bit of UNLV basketball, and can say that they are a better team right now in Kevin Kruger’s first season than they were at any time in Otzelberger’s tenure. There have been some struggles and growing pains with an almost entirely rebuilt roster, but the future looks somewhat promising for the first time in years.

Most people in town weren’t exactly sorry to see Otzelberger leave, there seemed to be a lack of life with the program and a general feeling that he wasn’t the guy to fix it.

 

[BFo8]

New Mexico is an excellent program. San Jose State is a terrible program in a high major league so they're probably the worst high major program.

New Mexico’s program has been in almost total disarray the last few seasons and shows no sign of getting better anytime soon.

 

[pittjas]

Did I not say Colorado State was a high major program? They are NOT a MM. And why did you type New Mexico's 21-22 record? They are historically one of the better programs in the West.

Because you mix around and just arbitrarily say what is a high major /mid major/low major /sideways major/ etc etc constantly to support whatever narrative you are pushing

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

New Mexico’s program has been in almost total disarray the last few seasons and shows no sign of getting better anytime soon.

Down couple years but they were an NCAAT staple for the longest time. Sometimes with very high seeds.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Because you mix around and just arbitrarily say what is a high major /mid major/low major /sideways major/ etc etc constantly to support whatever narrative you are pushing

Nope.

P6

High major
A10
American
MWC

MM
WCC (Gonzaga the exception)
MAC
CAA
SoCon
Horizon
a bunch of others

Low Major
NEC
MEAC
SWAC
America East
Ivy
Patriot
Big South
A few more

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Down couple years but they were an NCAAT staple for the longest time. Sometimes with very high seeds.

New Mexico State is the better of those 2 jobs out there. More money than the rest of their league. New Mexico can’t win. Jans is a terrific coach and would be at a HM rn if he hadn’t slapped a woman’s ass drunk in a bar

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

New Mexico State is the better of those 2 jobs out there. More money than the rest of their league. New Mexico can’t win. Jans is a terrific coach and would be at a HM rn if he hadn’t slapped a woman’s ass drunk in a bar

NM State is in the middle of nowhere (even for New Mexico). Alburquerque is NYC compared to Los Alamos. NM will be good again. Great historical program for their level and a great fanbase

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

NM State is in the middle of nowhere (even for New Mexico). Alburquerque is NYC compared to Los Alamos. NM will be good again. Great historical program for their level and a great fanbase

Who cares? It’s about RESOURCES compared to your conference in those jobs

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Who cares? It’s about RESOURCES compared to your conference in those jobs

I will say that the new CUSA with NM State, WKU, MTSU, and Liberty could be the best MM conference. That's a far cry from when it had Calipari Memphis, Cincy, Lou, and Marquette but still.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

It's definitely doable. We did this before when we had a dilapidated Fitzgerald Field House and got Howland here to rebuild the program. That's a lot worse than what we have now. With a competent, good coach who can recruit, this could be rebuilt in a couple of years.

We've made zero progress since Capel got here, so the rebuild would be from the bottom. I know the Capel apologists will say he's made it better. I look at results, and his results are mediocre to poor every year. That's not progress. Even a good coach would help rebuild this program, IF he can recruit and teach.

 

[Jeffburgh]

As many noted, the coach is the key.

But, its throwing darts.

Willard and Capel were well regarded hires and were disasters.

Howland was a "who knows" kind of hire, program was kinda where it was now, no one here really knew much about him, their shoe guy recommended him.

Dixon was a half arsed hire, they didnt get Prosser, had no backup plan and the players went to bat for him.

Evans was well regarded and had some success, but flamed out.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

As many noted, the coach is the key.

But, its throwing darts.

Willard and Capel were well regarded hires and were disasters.

Howland was a "who knows" kind of hire, program was kinda where it was now, no one here really knew much about him, their shoe guy recommended him.

Dixon was a half arsed hire, they didnt get Prosser, had no backup plan and the players went to bat for him.

Evans was well regarded and had some success, but flamed out.

I don't agree with all these people saying Dixon was a bad hire at the time. I wanted Prosser like most people but there weren't a ton of attractive names at the time and I and I think a lot of people liked the idea of hiring "Howland, Jr." to keep continuity

 

[HailToPitt1985]

The staff has a lot to do with how quickly this can be fixed. Howland had a very good staff, led by Dixon. Capel has.......... ?????

If a head coach is successful, he has to surround himself with great coaches who can recruit and teach.

 

[JD1976]

Hate to agree with SMF, but the Mountain West is most definitely high major. That’s a great league with tons of talent and schools that invest heavily.

For those that mention San Jose State in that conference, well, BC basketball and Kansas football are also considered “Power 5”

 

[WillFerrell]

Yes.

 

[Chescat]

Of course it can be done.
No brainer about the right
coach. WF is the perfect
example. Foster has turned
it around. He was ultra
successful wherever he went.

As for Pitt......IMO it IS an
attractive job. It's a city
school, a lot of city Bball
players would want that.
It's in the ACC, it has very
good, recently upgraded
facilities. The university
itself has an excellent
reputation. The fact that
it's not in a Bball hotbed
means little IMO. Fans
turn out when the team
is competitive (oakland zoo).
All that and I am not from
Pittsburgh or Western Pa.
I see Pittsburgh as a great
place for college and a
basketball experience.

 

[docpanther26]

As many noted, the coach is the key.

But, its throwing darts.

Willard and Capel were well regarded hires and were disasters.

Howland was a "who knows" kind of hire, program was kinda where it was now, no one here really knew much about him, their shoe guy recommended him.

Dixon was a half arsed hire, they didnt get Prosser, had no backup plan and the players went to bat for him.

Evans was well regarded and had some success, but flamed out.

Absolutely agree that sometimes it really is throwing darts. There is no way anyone could have predicted a coach that did okay in northern Arizona would set the table to run the Big East. No way anyone saw that coming.

 

[pittchagg]

It's definitely doable. We did this before when we had a dilapidated Fitzgerald Field House and got Howland here to rebuild the program. That's a lot worse than what we have now. With a competent, good coach who can recruit, this could be rebuilt in a couple of years.

We've made zero progress since Capel got here, so the rebuild would be from the bottom. I know the Capel apologists will say he's made it better. I look at results, and his results are mediocre to poor every year. That's not progress. Even a good coach would help rebuild this program, IF he can recruit and teach.

The job being made better isn’t just based on a coach’s win/loss record. There have been significant improvements made to the program that will make the next coach’s job easier. A number of those things are largely because of Capel (new locker rooms/coach’s suite, more investment and operational resources being funneled into the program), some of them would have happened no matter who the coaching hire would have been in 2018 because they were led by Lyke and the athletic department (player dorms, arena renovations). All of them will make the next coach’s job easier, and makes Pitt a better job and a more competitive opening.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

The job being made better isn’t just based on a coach’s win/loss record. There have been significant improvements made to the program that will make the next coach’s job easier. A number of those things are largely because of Capel (new locker rooms/coach’s suite, more investment and operational resources being funneled into the program), some of them would have happened no matter who the coaching hire would have been in 2018 because they were led by Lyke and the athletic department (player dorms, arena renovations). All of them will make the next coach’s job easier, and makes Pitt a better job and a more competitive opening.

I totally agree that the improvements made to the facilities and program will (should) make the next hire easier. But they were led and facilitated by Lyke, for the most part. Lyke is the one who made the locker room investments and pushed to make more resources available for the program. I'm sure Capel went along for the ride to help his perception in the community and within the Pitt fanbase. But these things aren't because of Capel. That was Lyke doing that.

Thanks to those improvements, this Pitt job will be attractive to many good candidates.

 

[pittjas]

I totally agree that the improvements made to the facilities and program will (should) make the next hire easier. But they were led and facilitated by Lyke, for the most part. Lyke is the one who made the locker room investments and pushed to make more resources available for the program. I'm sure Capel went along for the ride to help his perception in the community and within the Pitt fanbase. But these things aren't because of Capel. That was Lyke doing that.

Thanks to those improvements, this Pitt job will be attractive to many good candidates.

It’s both. Capel definitely pushed hard for some of the upgrades to the behind the scenes stuff.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Forget about by Capel. I’m talking about for any coach, given the depths to which the program has sunk, and the real world challenges facing Pitt as a basketball school? Or is the program too far gone at this point, and are the hurdles too high to overcome?

If you think it’s fixable, what would it take and who could do it? Could Pitt even get the type of coach that would have a shot at getting it done? Where are the recruits that can elevate the program going to come from? Pitt is a fish out of water as a northeastern city school that now finds itself trying to fit in on Tobacco Road. If Capel with his background and ACC chops can’t bring them in, who can?

I have always believed the right coach can turn around any program, and that the right coach for any program is out there somewhere. And it’s not just the name guys or flavor of the week. It might be somebody that wasn’t a hot commodity and that we’ve never heard of, like Howland was.

After what has happened at a Pitt over the last several years, I don’t really feel that way anymore.

"Pitt is a fish out of water as a northeastern city school that now finds itself trying to fit in on Tobacco Road."

There is the reason that neither Boeheim nor Dixon were happy with the move to the ACC. Syracuse has fared better but seems to have a ceiling as a middle of the pack ACC team. I believe the move has hurt both Pitt and Syracuse recruiting by disrupting their traditional recruiting territories. It has hurt Pitt more than Syracuse---but, consider where Syracuse might be without Boeheim's 3-ball shooting sons on their team.

 

[Seneca_Valley]

Of course it can be done.
No brainer about the right
coach. WF is the perfect
example. Foster has turned
it around. He was ultra
successful wherever he went.

As for Pitt......IMO it IS an
attractive job. It's a city
school, a lot of city Bball
players would want that.
It's in the ACC, it has very
good, recently upgraded
facilities. The university
itself has an excellent
reputation. The fact that
it's not in a Bball hotbed
means little IMO. Fans
turn out when the team
is competitive (oakland zoo).
All that and I am not from
Pittsburgh or Western Pa.
I see Pittsburgh as a great
place for college and a
basketball experience.

I agree with you 100%. It not a question of if, but when. Could take place in a few years, probably longer if we continue to stumble for a while getting the who right.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

It’s a funny thing that all good / great coaches all have in common , they all have great players . Once you have those players in place what separates great coaches from good ones is that great coaches win championships .

For whatever reasons Pitt cannot close the deal on their primary recruiting targets. This just isn’t a JC problem JD had the same issues in the Dixon 2 era . Any coach they hire needs to identify why this is and correct it .

It can be done I believe , but requires an AD that allows the coach and booster groups a little freedom in acquiring talent because whatever they’re doing isn’t working .

Unless Heather has 5million a yr to pay someone along with JCs buyout money , why not allow JC and the boosters to get together and lay out strategies on how to actually sign some of the recruits he wants . With NIL I’m sure they can find ways to get it done without going totally rogue . It’s far cheaper getting players than overpriced coaches .

 

[Voice of Danno]

Back to if it is fixable. Easily. WIn the transfer portal. See Ia St.

 

[Chescat]

"Pitt is a fish out of water as a northeastern city school that now finds itself trying to fit in on Tobacco Road."

There is the reason that neither Boeheim nor Dixon were happy with the move to the ACC. Syracuse has fared better but seems to have a ceiling as a middle of the pack ACC team. I believe the move has hurt both Pitt and Syracuse recruiting by disrupting their traditional recruiting territories. It has hurt Pitt more than Syracuse---but, consider where Syracuse might be without Boeheim's 3-ball shooting sons on their team.

I agree with the idea
of a northeastern city
univesity being a misfit
on Tobacco road. But I
don't believe it can't be
overcome. Hell, a number
of Pitt's other teams are
doing well in that same
conference. Baseball??
What could be worse
than that? Soccer?
Football? Volleyball?
The only sport where
we're in a hoted is most
likely wrestling. We're
succeeding in those other
sports with recruits from
all over the country.

Get the right coach with
the right recruitors and
this university will sell
itself.