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I've Always Felt Like College Basketball is Slimy, FBI Proved it

mehinpgh

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Dec 6, 2004
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The whole AAU thing, the sneaker school thing, the multiple transfer from different school to different school thing, the "handler" thing; it is all gross and slimy and as close to the Sopranos as you can get in 2017. I hope the FBI investigation blows all major college basketball up. Start from scratch and if the kids don't want to play for a scholarship, room and board, and unlimited tutoring, then let them go play in Europe at 18 or go straight to the NBA developmental league.

I get it that Universities make a ton of money off these kids, but that is the way it goes and if you do not like it, find another option to hone your basketball skills for the pros.
 
The whole AAU thing, the sneaker school thing, the multiple transfer from different school to different school thing, the "handler" thing; it is all gross and slimy and as close to the Sopranos as you can get in 2017. I hope the FBI investigation blows all major college basketball up. Start from scratch and if the kids don't want to play for a scholarship, room and board, and unlimited tutoring, then let them go play in Europe at 18 or go straight to the NBA developmental league.

I get it that Universities make a ton of money off these kids, but that is the way it goes and if you do not like it, find another option to hone your basketball skills for the pros.
Colleges that play in the P5 ( big money ) conferences take advantage of these kids . The schools rake in millions of dollars and offer the kids a free education that most aren't interested in . If these kids truly had viable options and the top 100-150 kids would go into developmental leagues the interest and money would dry up in college athletics . Pitts current recruits would be the cream of the crop , think CBS is paying the NCAA billions to televise that ? No reason to pay coaches millions , no reason to pay ADs 5-600k , life would change for those involved in college athletics . This scandal will go away and things will get back to normal , those involved will get a little smarter . Want to put a stop to it take the money away ....good luck with that !
 
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I let my Pitt basketball season tickets lapse in 2009, and have barely looked back sense. I just don't like the college game like I did a decade ago...shoot, I still look fondly at the early 90s as my favorite college basketball era and it has been down hill since.
 
College sports has never, not been slimy. Players were being paid 135 years ago. Schools were letting guys play who weren't even enrolled at the schools. This was all during the "good old days". There is no period during which variations of this stuff wasn't going on. From the moment alums, and local fans started caring, the cheating began. Schools are regularly put on probation for cheating in MINOR SPORTS, as well as at the D2, and D3 level. Why do you think the Ivys backed away from big time football? It wasn't because of some ideal of pure amateurism. It was because they felt the stench of this stuff would damage their brands. They didn't need the money, or extra exposure, so they walked away.
 
OK, will the NCAA give Louisville a death penalty and destroy their program?

Hell No.

If they weren't FAKE POLICE, they'd do something so that their program has records like 2-30 or 5-25 for the next decade, but they are FAKE POLICE.
 
Colleges that play in the P5 ( big money ) conferences take advantage of these kids . The schools rake in millions of dollars and offer the kids a free education that most aren't interested in . If these kids truly had viable options and the top 100-150 kids would go into developmental leagues the interest and money would dry up in college athletics . Pitts current recruits would be the cream of the crop , think CBS is paying the NCAA billions to televise that ? No reason to pay coaches millions , no reason to pay ADs 5-600k , life would change for those involved in college athletics . This scandal will go away and things will get back to normal , those involved will get a little smarter . Want to put a stop to it take the money away ....good luck with that !

Yes, I think that the networks would televise that. Too lazy to look it up but did people watch the year Villanova won it? Yes.

No, the money won't ever go away but I also think that it could be a lot less slimy than it is right now and people would still watch
 
Yes, I think that the networks would televise that. Too lazy to look it up but did people watch the year Villanova won it? Yes.

No, the money won't ever go away but I also think that it could be a lot less slimy than it is right now and people would still watch
Take away the best 200/300 players from colege bb and you think it would be just as popular ?
 
Remember when Butler made two consecutive Finals? I imagine it would be a lot of basketball like that.
There will be a ripple affect with the best players still going to the elite schools . Imagine that MCarr Pitts highest rated player at 125 or so opts to go to colege , he now becomes a top 25 recruit . Pitt now has no chance of getting him . The players Pitt will get if their lucky are players currently rated 250 and above . I'm personally not a fan of women's bb because the athleticism just isn't there , I want to watch guys leaping out the gym , slamming home amazing dunks , great blocks , incredible quickness etc and they won't be playing college ball and if a few are it won't be at Pitt . It will kill the goose and the money will disappear and colleges won't like that very much .
Ps .. anyone involved telling you they didn't know what's going on from the HC to the AD to the heads of these universities is lying . Heads will roll , but unless the money leaves nothing will change .
 
The whole AAU thing, the sneaker school thing, the multiple transfer from different school to different school thing, the "handler" thing; it is all gross and slimy and as close to the Sopranos as you can get in 2017. I hope the FBI investigation blows all major college basketball up. Start from scratch and if the kids don't want to play for a scholarship, room and board, and unlimited tutoring, then let them go play in Europe at 18 or go straight to the NBA developmental league.

I get it that Universities make a ton of money off these kids, but that is the way it goes and if you do not like it, find another option to hone your basketball skills for the pros.

At this point, I think the NBA really has to start investing more in the G-league by raising the salary. Let the kid choose the NBA/G-league/Europe right out of HS. If he doesn't go then he has to wait until after his 2nd or 3rd year of college basketball.
 
Take away the best 200/300 players from colege bb and you think it would be just as popular ?


Yeah, it would. Because people don't root for the players, they root for the schools. If it was all about watching the best players then nobody would be watching college basketball or college football right now, because a lot more than the top 200-300 players already don't play in college.

Pittsburgh had a CBA team about 20 years ago. Played at the Palumbo Center. I went to some of their games. The guys who were playing on those teams were the kinds of guys that you are talking about skipping college altogether. And not only did those teams no even come close to outdrawing Pitt at the gate, they didn't even outdraw Duquesne at the gate. They actually made the CBA championship the year they played here. Every player on their roster was probably better than every player on Duquesne's roster. And they couldn't draw flies. Because Pitt grads care about Pitt. Duquesne grads care about Duquesne. You have something of a built in fan base. The G League doesn't have that, and never will.
 
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College sports has never, not been slimy. Players were being paid 135 years ago. Schools were letting guys play who weren't even enrolled at the schools. This was all during the "good old days". There is no period during which variations of this stuff wasn't going on. From the moment alums, and local fans started caring, the cheating began. Schools are regularly put on probation for cheating in MINOR SPORTS, as well as at the D2, and D3 level. Why do you think the Ivys backed away from big time football? It wasn't because of some ideal of pure amateurism. It was because they felt the stench of this stuff would damage their brands. They didn't need the money, or extra exposure, so they walked away.
Lol
ever see a movie from thev30s about CFB.
There's quite a few -and always gamblers or other crooks hanging around !!!
 
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Yeah, it would. Because people don't root for the players, they root for the schools. If it was all about watching the best players then nobody would be watching college basketball or college football right now, because a lot more than the top 200-300 players already don't play in college.

Pittsburgh had a CBA team about 20 years ago. Played at the Palumbo Center. I went to some of their games. The guys who were playing on those teams were the kinds of guys that you are talking about skipping college altogether. And not only did those teams no even come close to outdrawing Pitt at the gate, they didn't even outdraw Duquesne at the gate. They actually made the CBA championship the year they played here. Every player on their roster was probably better than every player on Duquesne's roster. And they couldn't draw flies. Because Pitt grads care about Pitt. Duquesne grads care about Duquesne. You have something of a built in fan base. The G League doesn't have that, and never will.
I'm not suggesting that the D league or whatever league that these kids would go to would replace NCAA sports in popularity .Although NCAA sports would suffer as a result of a loss of these elite players . You wouldn't lose the die heart fans , but you will lose fans . People want to see the best players in every sport and colege bb and FB are the next best thing to the NBA and NFL . The players you enjoyed watching the most would never have gone to college . No Blair , no Sam Young , no C Smith , J Lane, D Gore etc . Imagine looking back and saying that a player like Trey Woodall was the best Pitt player you saw for the last 25 yrs ( no disrespect to Trey he was a fine college player ) . The product won't be the same and attendance will suffer as well as TV viewership .
 
Take away the best 200/300 players from colege bb and you think it would be just as popular ?


Yeah, it would. Because people don't root for the players, they root for the schools. If it was all about watching the best players then nobody would be watching college basketball or college football right now, because a lot more than the top 200-300 players already don't play in college.

Pittsburgh had a CBA team about 20 years ago. Played at the Palumbo Center. I went to some of their games. The guys who were playing on those teams were the kinds of guys that you are talking about skipping college altogether. And not only did those teams no even come close to outdrawing Pitt at the gate, they didn't even outdraw Duquesne at the gate. They actually made the CBA championship the year they played here. Every player on their roster was probably better than every player on Duquesne's roster. And they couldn't draw flies. Because Pitt grads care about Pitt. Duquesne grads care about Duquesne. You have something of a built in fan base. The G League doesn't have that, and never will.

I disagree. In certain markets, the G-league does reasonably well. Lets say a LeBron type forgoes his senior year of HS (which I think should be allowed, finish HS in G-league city) to make $100K in G-league, ratings and attendance would be much better.
 
I disagree. In certain markets, the G-league does reasonably well. Lets say a LeBron type forgoes his senior year of HS (which I think should be allowed, finish HS in G-league city) to make $100K in G-league, ratings and attendance would be much better.


The G-League does well in minor league markets with no other alternatives. A Lexington, Kentucky team will never even approach UK in popularity. A team in the triangle of North Carolina will never even approach North Carolina, Duke or NC State in popularity. The team that is currently in LA doesn't come close to UCLA or even USC in popularity. A hypothetical LeBron James who plays a year with a Columbus G-League team doesn't even come close to Ohio State in popularity.

G-League teams are already better than NCAA teams. So why don't people flock to the games? Why are the franchises located, for the most part, in minor league markets with no real competition?
 
I disagree. In certain markets, the G-league does reasonably well. Lets say a LeBron type forgoes his senior year of HS (which I think should be allowed, finish HS in G-league city) to make $100K in G-league, ratings and attendance would be much better.


The G-League does well in minor league markets with no other alternatives. A Lexington, Kentucky team will never even approach UK in popularity. A team in the triangle of North Carolina will never even approach North Carolina, Duke or NC State in popularity. The team that is currently in LAS doesn't come close to UCLA or even USC in popularity. A hypothetical LeBron James who plays a year with a Columbus G-League team doesn't even come close to Ohio State in popularity.

G-League teams are already better than NCAA teams. So why don't people flock to the games? Why are the franchises located, for the most part, in minor league markets with no real competition?

Right. They will never compete with the NCAA in interest or attendance but if lets say the Top 20-25 recruits all played a year or 2 in the G-league, the Reno team or Sioux City team or Erie team would draw even better and more people would watch on TV.

Actually, I think the NBA should expand to 60 with 30 teams grandfathered in the 1st Division and 10 of the other 30 fighting for 10 places in the 1st division while the other 20 play in the 2nd Division trying for promotion. If Pittsburgh had an NBA 2nd Division team with a chance to make the 1st Division, I bet they could draw 6K-7K per game and if they made the 1st Division, 15K-19K.
 
I'm not suggesting that the D league or whatever league that these kids would go to would replace NCAA sports in popularity .Although NCAA sports would suffer as a result of a loss of these elite players . You wouldn't lose the die heart fans , but you will lose fans . People want to see the best players in every sport and colege bb and FB are the next best thing to the NBA and NFL . The players you enjoyed watching the most would never have gone to college . No Blair , no Sam Young , no C Smith , J Lane, D Gore etc . Imagine looking back and saying that a player like Trey Woodall was the best Pitt player you saw for the last 25 yrs ( no disrespect to Trey he was a fine college player ) . The product won't be the same and attendance will suffer as well as TV viewership .

The D league would take the top 50 players max...reality...the top 15-20 a year. The rest would likely go to college. Sam Young wasn't going to get drafted after his junior year..I doubt that he would have before his freshman year. Woodall didn't even get drafted after his senior year....why would the NBA draft him out of high school?

Besides...how popular is college hoops? The average person watches, at most, three months out of the year. From after the bowls thru March Madness. 95% of the public watches the tourney because of the brackets. That won't change.
 
G-League teams are already better than NCAA teams. So why don't people flock to the games? Why are the franchises located, for the most part, in minor league markets with no real competition?

To make your point even more succinctly, Carl Krauser was a Pitt legend. I can't imagine how many photos and autographs he has given to fans, yet almost none of those fans bothered to come watch him play for the Pittsburgh Xplosion.
 
The D league would take the top 50 players max...reality...the top 15-20 a year. The rest would likely go to college. Sam Young wasn't going to get drafted after his junior year..I doubt that he would have before his freshman year. Woodall didn't even get drafted after his senior year....why would the NBA draft him out of high school?

Besides...how popular is college hoops? The average person watches, at most, three months out of the year. From after the bowls thru March Madness. 95% of the public watches the tourney because of the brackets. That won't change.
No , let's start this over , if an extensive minor league system was developed that took players from the top 100-150 best high school seniors who aren't interested in getting an education . None of these guys except the few exceptional players would get drafted after the their first or second yr . Instead of pretending to be a student they can develop their skills full time .
Now as a former chem major I afraid your reading comprehension is a little subject . I stated that a player like Trey would be the best player who played ball at Pitt . You'd have never seen those other guys .
The NCAA s certainly get their share of viewership from the poll players , but it's also a showcase of exciting bb . Taking the elite players out of the tourney will make it less attractive . Just look at the NFL when two teams without a franchise qb play no one watches except locals . The better the product the better the numbers are .
 
No , let's start this over , if an extensive minor league system was developed that took players from the top 100-150 best high school seniors who aren't interested in getting an education . None of these guys except the few exceptional players would get drafted after the their first or second yr . Instead of pretending to be a student they can develop their skills full time .
Now as a former chem major I afraid your reading comprehension is a little subject . I stated that a player like Trey would be the best player who played ball at Pitt . You'd have never seen those other guys .
The NCAA s certainly get their share of viewership from the poll players , but it's also a showcase of exciting bb . Taking the elite players out of the tourney will make it less attractive . Just look at the NFL when two teams without a franchise qb play no one watches except locals . The better the product the better the numbers are .

MLB has an extensive minor league system that has operated for several decades, yet talented kids still go to college and are often the top picks of the draft.
 
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MLB has an extensive minor league system that has operated for several decades, yet talented kids still go to college and are often the top picks of the draft.
I didn't say everyone just the ones who have no desire to go to college . College isn't for everyone .
 
There are multiple players in the last few years that bypassed college and went overseas to play right out of high school, Brandon Jennings being the most notable.
 
Most AAU coaches started demanding payments to get a kid to visit a school about 6-7 years ago. That's just to get a visit. o_O
 
There are multiple players in the last few years that bypassed college and went overseas to play right out of high school, Brandon Jennings being the most notable.

I hope there are more guys doing that, and the G League becomes a viable option. The less guys forced to go to college when they don't have any desire to, the better off the game is.
 
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The whole AAU thing, the sneaker school thing, the multiple transfer from different school to different school thing, the "handler" thing; it is all gross and slimy and as close to the Sopranos as you can get in 2017. I hope the FBI investigation blows all major college basketball up. Start from scratch and if the kids don't want to play for a scholarship, room and board, and unlimited tutoring, then let them go play in Europe at 18 or go straight to the NBA developmental league.

I get it that Universities make a ton of money off these kids, but that is the way it goes and if you do not like it, find another option to hone your basketball skills for the pros.
Wherever there's money to be made, there's slime involved. Notice that we rarely - if ever - hear about this kinda stuff with the so-called "Olympic" (non-revenue producing) sports.

I even heard a story about a school that was so desperate to win in football that they covered-up -- and enabled -- a child predator who was on its coaching staff.
 
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Wherever there's money to be made, there's slime involved. Notice that we rarely - if ever - hear about this kinda stuff with the so-called "Olympic" (non-revenue producing) sports.

I even heard a story about a school that was so desperate to win in football that they covered-up -- and enabled -- a child predator who was on its coaching staff.

Now, now, now, everyone knows that was a "rush to judgment" because everyone was sooo jealous of their success
 
Players should have complete control over their image; if Adidas wanted to sign Brian Bowen right out of high school, they should have been able to. There is no logical reason as to why collegiate athletes shouldn't be allowed to have endorsement deals.
 
Players should have complete control over their image; if Adidas wanted to sign Brian Bowen right out of high school, they should have been able to. There is no logical reason as to why collegiate athletes shouldn't be allowed to have endorsement deals.
He's your reason Pajama Man.
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Amateurism
Amateur competition is a bedrock principle of college athletics and the NCAA. Maintaining amateurism is crucial to preserving an academic environment in which acquiring a quality education is the first priority. In the collegiate model of sports, the young men and women competing on the field or court are students first, athletes second.

The NCAA membership has adopted amateurism rules to ensure the students’ priority remains on obtaining a quality educational experience and that all of student-athletes are competing equitably.

All incoming student-athletes must be certified as amateurs. With global recruiting becoming more common, determining the amateur status of prospective student-athletes can be challenging. All student-athletes, including international students, are required to adhere to NCAA amateurism requirements to remain eligible for intercollegiate competition.

In general, amateurism requirements do not allow:

  • Contracts with professional teams
  • Salary for participating in athletics
  • Prize money above actual and necessary expenses
  • Play with professionals
  • Tryouts, practice or competition with a professional team
  • Benefits from an agent or prospective agent
  • Agreement to be represented by an agent
  • Delayed initial full-time collegiate enrollment to participate in organized sports competition
Additional information regarding NCAA amateurism rules is available on the NCAA Eligibility Center’s website by clicking on the “Resources” link at the top of the page. Another resource is the Guide for the College Bound Student-Athlete.
 
Players should have complete control over their image; if Adidas wanted to sign Brian Bowen right out of high school, they should have been able to. There is no logical reason as to why collegiate athletes shouldn't be allowed to have endorsement deals.
I'm assuming that it would be like opening the flood gates for boosters to begin openly giving money to kids. Imagine some guy that is a Arizona alum/booster but also happens to own a business. How easy would it be for them give an "endorsement deal" to a recruit if he just goes to UA? It wouldn't just be the big shoe companies that would sign kids. The potential for abuse would be huge.
 
I'm assuming that it would be like opening the flood gates for boosters to begin openly giving money to kids. Imagine some guy that is a Arizona alum/booster but also happens to own a business. How easy would it be for them give an "endorsement deal" to a recruit if he just goes to UA? It wouldn't just be the big shoe companies that would sign kids. The potential for abuse would be huge.
So?

Who is it hurting, really?

Every time I turn on my tv i see Peyton manning- why is it different for kids in college?
 
So?

Who is it hurting, really?

Every time I turn on my tv i see Peyton manning- why is it different for kids in college?
But are you assuming that they'll even use these kids for endorsements? I see it as just another way to direct a kid to a certain school. Basically your typical "no show" job situation. There's not going to be some mandate that if you sign a kid you must use him X amount of times in endorsement spots.
Also, what happens when they start signing kids out of high school before they even become stars? Now you have a kid that's locked in into low paying endorsement contract just because he wanted a few extra bucks as a high school senior. I understand this is not going to affect everyone but just another example of what could go wrong.
 
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But are you assuming that they'll even use these kids for endorsements? I see it as just another way to direct a kid to a certain school. Basically your typical "no show" job situation. There's not going to be some mandate that if you sign a kid you must use him X amount of times in endorsement spots.
Also, what happens when they start signing kids out of high school before they even become stars? Now you have a kid that's locked in into low paying endorsement contract just because he wanted a few extra bucks as a high school senior. I understand this is not going to affect everyone but just another example of what could go wrong.
The horror!

Motorsports kids get sponsored. Somehow, they aren't ruined.
 
I'm assuming that it would be like opening the flood gates for boosters to begin openly giving money to kids. Imagine some guy that is a Arizona alum/booster but also happens to own a business. How easy would it be for them give an "endorsement deal" to a recruit if he just goes to UA? It wouldn't just be the big shoe companies that would sign kids. The potential for abuse would be huge.

Uh, that's already happening; it's literally the topic of this thread. Better to have it out in the open and at least plausibly regulated rather than requiring the FBI to get involved.
 
He's your reason Pajama Man.
Skip to main content

NCAA

Search Google Appliance
Enter the terms you wish to search for.
Submit Content | Media Center | NCAA.COM

Amateurism
Amateur competition is a bedrock principle of college athletics and the NCAA. Maintaining amateurism is crucial to preserving an academic environment in which acquiring a quality education is the first priority. In the collegiate model of sports, the young men and women competing on the field or court are students first, athletes second.

The NCAA membership has adopted amateurism rules to ensure the students’ priority remains on obtaining a quality educational experience and that all of student-athletes are competing equitably.

All incoming student-athletes must be certified as amateurs. With global recruiting becoming more common, determining the amateur status of prospective student-athletes can be challenging. All student-athletes, including international students, are required to adhere to NCAA amateurism requirements to remain eligible for intercollegiate competition.

In general, amateurism requirements do not allow:

  • Contracts with professional teams
  • Salary for participating in athletics
  • Prize money above actual and necessary expenses
  • Play with professionals
  • Tryouts, practice or competition with a professional team
  • Benefits from an agent or prospective agent
  • Agreement to be represented by an agent
  • Delayed initial full-time collegiate enrollment to participate in organized sports competition
Additional information regarding NCAA amateurism rules is available on the NCAA Eligibility Center’s website by clicking on the “Resources” link at the top of the page. Another resource is the Guide for the College Bound Student-Athlete.

Who cares? I watch because I like football/basketball and Pitt, not because they're amateurs. If I wanted to watch people playing 'for the love of the game', I'd go to the local Y. 'Amateurism' is a sham.
 
I let my Pitt basketball season tickets lapse in 2009, and have barely looked back sense. I just don't like the college game like I did a decade ago...shoot, I still look fondly at the early 90s as my favorite college basketball era and it has been down hill since.
It was slimy then too bud.
 
Who cares? I watch because I like football/basketball and Pitt, not because they're amateurs. If I wanted to watch people playing 'for the love of the game', I'd go to the local Y. 'Amateurism' is a sham.

It always has been. This was originally put in to keep out the unwashed masses. The wealthy had the leisure time and money to participate, the poor didn't.
 
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But are you assuming that they'll even use these kids for endorsements? I see it as just another way to direct a kid to a certain school. Basically your typical "no show" job situation. There's not going to be some mandate that if you sign a kid you must use him X amount of times in endorsement spots.
Also, what happens when they start signing kids out of high school before they even become stars? Now you have a kid that's locked in into low paying endorsement contract just because he wanted a few extra bucks as a high school senior. I understand this is not going to affect everyone but just another example of what could go wrong.
And I'll ask again, so?

Who does it actually harm?
 
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