Jamie Dixon, Head Coach PITT Men's Basketball
- Thread starter Zaratoughda
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I believe that he can and will turn it around, but we do need to recruit much better. If that means better assistants, then get it done.
I think at the very least Dixon should have two more years similar to last year before he is let go. I'm not also sure that we'd do any better.
People here act like the sky is falling. Yes, we underperformed at 19-15 last year, but we were still an above average team. Many schools would love to have what we've had and go through a new coach every few years and still can't turn it around.
So while I do have some major concerns, I am not ready to throw in the towel yet. I think most on here over-react as to how bad things are. I do think we rebound and make the NCAA's again this year.
I think at the very least Dixon should have two more years similar to last year before he is let go. I'm not also sure that we'd do any better.
People here act like the sky is falling. Yes, we underperformed at 19-15 last year, but we were still an above average team. Many schools would love to have what we've had and go through a new coach every few years and still can't turn it around.
So while I do have some major concerns, I am not ready to throw in the towel yet. I think most on here over-react as to how bad things are. I do think we rebound and make the NCAA's again this year.
As I stated in the other thread, barring 2-3 consecutive losing seasons, Dixon won't be fired regardless of what the fanbase may want. That is simply reality. Pitt is not going to fire a coach who has never had even one losing season for failure to make the Sweet Sixteen or better.
There are 3 posters who have openly come out for firing Dixon. There are also only 28 votes in so far. It is true there are not many willing to admit they want him axed right now.
What will it take? Two years of NCAA bids but low seeds and exits in the first weekend, and then a collapse in 17/18 due to all the good players having graduated and next to nothing replacing them.
If Dixon makes an ACC championship game and a sweet-16... that changes a lot.
Of course, WE don't fire anybody. That is up to Gallagher/Barnes. Then there are the influential alumni... who really make the call... but it is not just one person or any group of persons.
So people want to fire the most successful bb coach in Pitt history because the program has temporally appeared stalled. The only era that Pitt recuirted top talent they CHEATED. The recent recuirting troubles seem to coincide with a phoilosphy change to try and recuirt the higher rated kids. It does seem obvious that they really don't want to go to Pitt and under what circumstances would that change. NO HIGH PROFILE COACH IS LEAVING HIS PRESENT JOB TO COME TO PITT. Is Pitts new administration so committed to winning to endorse a win at all cost attitude. I don't think so. Is the anwser hiring an up and coming HC who might turn the program into a Ralph Willard type program? The Steelers coaching phoilosphy works find a good coach and stick with them and guess what Pitt has a good coach whose going to be here most likely as long as HE wants to. The people he anwser to know this. Pitt may never be a # 1 seed again ,but that doesn't mean the program is a failure. Winning seasons,tourament appearances ,graduating their players ,running a clean program are all measures of a successful programs. Pitt does have a successful bb program ,maybe it's not what want it to be ,but face it Pitt is not an elite program ,it never has been one and most likely never will be.
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sure I do.
Would you have fired him last year?
The cbi season?
If me makes the tournament the next 2 years ( your scenerio) and then has an awful season you will make a move if up to you.
That's asinine.
What is different between now and 3 years from now in your world??
How about a poll whether the assistants should have been fired 30 seconds after that disgraceful final game?
The only "no" would come from those thinking it should have been 15 seconds.
The only "no" would come from those thinking it should have been 15 seconds.
Remember when Pitt wanted Wanny to "replace" some of his assistants and he wouldn't do that. What do you think about Jamie, do you think he is "too loyal" to his assistants or maybe he thinks they are doing an OK job. After all it is HIS butt on the line, so maybe he is happy with his assistants, or is being too loyal the situation?
Jamie is very loyal to his assistants. But it was Steve Pederson who told Jamie he had to bring back Slice. (This isn't my conjecture -- I was told this by three difference people who would know). So Jamie followed suit and send Sandle on his way to pick up Slice, even though Jamie was not happy about it. So the situation is different that Wanny's.
I don't know Jamie's current take on his assistants. I suspect he does feel loyalty to all of them. But if he's being too loyal at the risk his own butt, that's on no one but him.
I don't think bringing in an assistant with mostly midwest ties was a very good move.
The midwest is B10 country and all the top recruits are gonna sign with B10 schools or other schools in the area.
On the other hand, the State University of New Young (SUNY) has close to half a million students and no major basketball programs (can't count Albany and Buffalo) and NYU also doesn't play sports so.... there is a ton of talent there just looking for a top school to play for... and this (including northern NJ, etc) USED to be our major recruiting area but has dried up almost completely and that is probably due to our loss of visibility there with the move to the ACC.
So, what Dixon and Pederson SHOULD have done... is establish our visibility there otherwise, with more games in the area and what not... and bring in recruiters that can recruit the area.
But, they blew this one and trying to get recruits out of the midwest... is not gonna work.
So, IMO they (well, Dixon as Pederson is gone) are in trouble... might have to rely on grad transfers and only time will tell how far he can get with that.
The midwest is B10 country and all the top recruits are gonna sign with B10 schools or other schools in the area.
On the other hand, the State University of New Young (SUNY) has close to half a million students and no major basketball programs (can't count Albany and Buffalo) and NYU also doesn't play sports so.... there is a ton of talent there just looking for a top school to play for... and this (including northern NJ, etc) USED to be our major recruiting area but has dried up almost completely and that is probably due to our loss of visibility there with the move to the ACC.
So, what Dixon and Pederson SHOULD have done... is establish our visibility there otherwise, with more games in the area and what not... and bring in recruiters that can recruit the area.
But, they blew this one and trying to get recruits out of the midwest... is not gonna work.
So, IMO they (well, Dixon as Pederson is gone) are in trouble... might have to rely on grad transfers and only time will tell how far he can get with that.
Boeheim didn't want Cuse to the ACC--he saw the writing on the recruiting wall. Dixon was diplomatically silent about it but not thrilled.
Easier said than done to schedule games in the old BE territory especially with old BE opponents angry about the defection to the ACC.
Easier said than done to schedule games in the old BE territory especially with old BE opponents angry about the defection to the ACC.
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3 years like this one, including the recruiting. Because that is a big part of it. Hard to win in the ACC with MEAC type players.
Let's not underestimate the loss of Sandle....JD always praised him for his work with the kids. Not sure Slice or Smoke have those skills.
Again, there seems to be a reading comprehension issue on this board. And it is caused by an overly defensive, hypersensitivity towards Jamie and the BB program. We have seen over the past decade Jamie and Pitt BB not getting its due from some fans (think Mike412 and many of this ilk) who come on here after every loss and bemoan Dixon and his recruiting. This happened during Big East championship years, years being a #1 seed in the NCAA's and Sweet 16 years. Meanwhile a lot of these same fans would want to give Pitt football a cookie for beating a Bowling Green in some meaningless bowl game in Detroit.
I completely get this. Because I would like to think that you all recognize that I was also one of the people who would call this nonsense out. But lately, it hasn't been good in Pitt BB land. At least not as good as it has been. Not just on the court, but also recruiting. There are concerns, or at least should be concerns. But again, it seems like because of above, there is this reluctance to acknowledge, at least discuss and openly debate these concerns and Jamie's performance. Sure we talk openly about how poor the defense has been, that is easy. But again, recruiting and player development has not what it has been.
What has happened though, is a lot of you have taken these criticisms personally. And you have blown them out of proportion to more than what is being said. As this poll suggests, NO ONE, Over 55 votes and NO ONE is advocating firing Jamie Dixon. So why are we yelling at each other? Why? Why are we acting like people are wanting him fired? Why?
Personally, I feel like now I am a board pariah because I not just criticize but openly question the direction of this program under Jamie Dixon. I am wondering if we can ever regain where we were let alone build upon it under Dixon and especially this staff. Funny, many of you hint, hem, haw around the quality of the coaching staff, yet when someone like me advocates that there needs to be changes on the staff, again I am questioned if not ridiculed. But...but...but...you guys are saying (well you don't say it, you hint at it) that you also think staff changes are needed.
But back to the tone. The wagons have been circled and now shots are fired. I feel like I am being attacked, so I attack back. I apologize for this. I don't know what else to say, this is your basketball program (season ticket holders), and you are right to be satisfied with whatever you results you will accept. I don't have much skin in this game, except some hours at a bar or at home on the television. So hey, who am I to tell you what is best. But again, know this, you see this poll, the votes are anonymous, so people can choose whatever they want to, but no one is advocating firing Jamie Dixon right now. So will you all please relax a bit? Thanks.
I completely get this. Because I would like to think that you all recognize that I was also one of the people who would call this nonsense out. But lately, it hasn't been good in Pitt BB land. At least not as good as it has been. Not just on the court, but also recruiting. There are concerns, or at least should be concerns. But again, it seems like because of above, there is this reluctance to acknowledge, at least discuss and openly debate these concerns and Jamie's performance. Sure we talk openly about how poor the defense has been, that is easy. But again, recruiting and player development has not what it has been.
What has happened though, is a lot of you have taken these criticisms personally. And you have blown them out of proportion to more than what is being said. As this poll suggests, NO ONE, Over 55 votes and NO ONE is advocating firing Jamie Dixon. So why are we yelling at each other? Why? Why are we acting like people are wanting him fired? Why?
Personally, I feel like now I am a board pariah because I not just criticize but openly question the direction of this program under Jamie Dixon. I am wondering if we can ever regain where we were let alone build upon it under Dixon and especially this staff. Funny, many of you hint, hem, haw around the quality of the coaching staff, yet when someone like me advocates that there needs to be changes on the staff, again I am questioned if not ridiculed. But...but...but...you guys are saying (well you don't say it, you hint at it) that you also think staff changes are needed.
But back to the tone. The wagons have been circled and now shots are fired. I feel like I am being attacked, so I attack back. I apologize for this. I don't know what else to say, this is your basketball program (season ticket holders), and you are right to be satisfied with whatever you results you will accept. I don't have much skin in this game, except some hours at a bar or at home on the television. So hey, who am I to tell you what is best. But again, know this, you see this poll, the votes are anonymous, so people can choose whatever they want to, but no one is advocating firing Jamie Dixon right now. So will you all please relax a bit? Thanks.
I think he would have to miss the next 3 NCAA Tournaments for the idea to be given some serious thought, but even then, I dont think it would or should happen...........unless Barnes can guarantee some unbelievable coach to take his place.
This wont happen though as Dixon is going to make at least one, maybe all 3 NCAA Tournaments in the next 3 years.
The difficult decision is what do you do is 6-7 years if we maintain this status as an 8th/9th place ACC team, 1 and done, maybe 2 and done NCAA team. Is that good enough for Pitt? I dont know the answer to that yet.
The difference between Dixon and Wannstedt is that Dixon has proven he is capable of winning. He was a shot away from a Final Four and received two #1 seeds, not even mentioning Big East final appearances or Sweet 16s. You can't dismiss someone that has those accomplishments. It would be difficult to find a candidate with that kind of background, or someone who has a trajectory to achieve that in their career. "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." The job is Dixon's to lose, a la Berenato.
Now, if years continue and Dixon has Wannstedt-like results, as you suggest is possible, then it becomes a bigger decision to make. So many critical people on this board label the last 4 years as mediocre or bad, yet at the end of the 2014 season, Pitt lost the ACC tournament semifinal by 3 points to an eventual #1 seed UVa. We aren't that far removed from being a good team.
People seem to be lumping "the last 4 years" together rather than actually evaluating them independently. Year by year finishes:
2015: ACC #9
2014: ACC #5
2013: BE #4
2012: BE #13
2011: BE #1
Get off the cross, nobody Is caring about your vague notions.
You want to snark, but get emotional when it's returned. Toughen up.
When will you want Dixon fired, because you will eventually?
So, what are the parameters?
I don't want him fired. If I want him fired, that means the program has been really bad. Now the thing is, I also wouldn't extend him anymore and no longer am afraid of him leaving. What about this can't you understand?
I"m asking at what point to you want him fired?
It's the same question I've asked you several times, and you evaded it everytime.
You want to complain for expectations not being met, without defining what are minimal expectations for Dixon.
Here's my stab at it: If Dixon doesn't make at least one Sweet 16 in the next 5 years, he would be fired, pretty much no matter the context. That would be significantly worse than his early career accomplishments, and represent a decade-long drought. I think he would also be gone with 2 of 5 years without an NIT berth.
I also think the prospect of Dixon being "fired" is exaggerated. Dixon would be much more likely, in my opinion, to strategically exit for another opportunity (better or worse) before ever being fired (e.g., Ed DeChellis to Navy). There's no benefit to Pitt or Dixon with the phrases "fired" or "terminated".
I think that's fine.
I'd also say missing the tournament the next 3 years would do it, too.
I thought I said this. "3 more years like this season"? Doesn't that spell it out? Do you intentionally try and twist my words into something that isn't there? What is your problem?
71 votes now. 2 wanting to fire Jamie Dixon. Again, where is all of this drama with posters wanting Jamie fired?
The votes aren't in yet from all the people who are waiting to see how the next three years play out before they can decide what the correct thing to do today is.
The next two years Dixon SHOULD be able to field a competitive team.
Next year, Robinson and the three grad transfers (Smith, Maia and ANO) will all be gone but Young, Artis, Jones, Newkirk and Jeter, will all be seniors. So, if he can fill a few holes, particularly the hole at PG, next year he should be OK.
But, starting in 17/18, they will all be gone and right now he does not have the recruits to replace them. So, 17/18 may mean a big collapse.
So, to me, two years of mediocre performance (like no NCAA bid or low seed and gone the first weekend) followed by a big collapse. and, despite his performance in the past, he could very well be let go.
But, if they don't fix the loss of the NYC Metro recruiting pipeline, it won't matter who is the coach (the next Roy Chipman?), the dismal performance will continue.
Yeah, just like the move to the ACC pretty much destroyed the Miami football program, it may indeed destroy our basketball program.
The Dukies SUCK! And so doesn't Coach K.
Next year, Robinson and the three grad transfers (Smith, Maia and ANO) will all be gone but Young, Artis, Jones, Newkirk and Jeter, will all be seniors. So, if he can fill a few holes, particularly the hole at PG, next year he should be OK.
But, starting in 17/18, they will all be gone and right now he does not have the recruits to replace them. So, 17/18 may mean a big collapse.
So, to me, two years of mediocre performance (like no NCAA bid or low seed and gone the first weekend) followed by a big collapse. and, despite his performance in the past, he could very well be let go.
But, if they don't fix the loss of the NYC Metro recruiting pipeline, it won't matter who is the coach (the next Roy Chipman?), the dismal performance will continue.
Yeah, just like the move to the ACC pretty much destroyed the Miami football program, it may indeed destroy our basketball program.
The Dukies SUCK! And so doesn't Coach K.
Joe, wasn't that choice number 2 in the poll? One that I chose, and obviously many others? This is what I mean by reading comprehension.
Souf...BOOM.
No, it's not.
#2 in the poll is 3 years from now, we'll reassess if things don't improve AT THAT TIME, time to move on.
Not go back 3 years prior, to make a movement.
Or- are you having trouble comprehending your own nonsense?
Zara, maybe you are just a naturally pessimistic guy, but I assume you realize how anti-Dixon your post sounds. Using phrases like "SHOULD be able to field a competitive team" and "should be OK" as opposed to "big collapse", "dismal performance" and "indeed destroy our basketball program" sound quite negative to some people. I don't think that simply disagreeing with that overall tone makes someone a Dixon apologist, as some on here would claim.
Maybe you think you are just being a realist, but you give the impression of someone who truly dislikes Dixon as Pitt's coach as opposed to being objective about him.
So..in 3 years from now you'll want him gone?
What is the minimum he'll need to stay? 2 dance appearances? 1 with better recruits in the pipeline?
A couple things. First of all, no that wasn't choice number two in the poll and choice number two isn't what you were arguing for before (although it certainly is the closest of the three choices given). So either you are doing a really bad job of expressing your thoughts (which was one of the choices I gave previously) or you've got yourself so twisted around that you can't even keep your own silly argument straight.
Secondly, it was a joke. Nothing more, nothing less. It wasn't a particularly funny joke, but I do have to say that the guy who has complained on numerous occasions about people here taking things too seriously and not understanding when you aren't being completely serious not being able to figure out that it was a joke certainly does make it a little bit funnier.
Actually JS, I think what you are saying is a pretty fair assessment and, I didn't realize it was coming through and want to thank you for saying so (yeah, and without being insulting which shows a lot of class on your part).
But, I don't think it is a matter of any personal dislike of mine towards Dixon.
I just think I got real problems with some of the stuff he does... like the switchoff 1-5 defense he tried to use last year, and related things as far as play calling, not owning up to mistakes he makes, and I got bigger problems with his rotations.
One example.... when we moved to the ACC Cuse right away went and made long term agreements with the likes of St Johns, Villanova, and Georgetown.. shoring up their visibility on the east coast (and thus their recruiting) while Dixon/Pederson just SAT ON IT. Yeah, they said they made calls to Nova and G'Town but, no call to UConn who is the first school they should have called (Cuse passed on them and they were our biggest rival in the OBE) and otherwise just did not try hard enough and simply did NOT GET THE JOB DONE.
(Yeah, hopefully Barnes will do a better job on this than the now fired Pederson... but he is getting into the game late.)
As far as Dixon is concerned, I have never met him but from what I hear he is just about the greatest guy you would ever want to meet.
And, I am not of the fire Dixon crowd, simply because I don't think we could find anyone better (at least not right now).
Also, I am not blatantly Dixon negative, and have stated many times that IMO he made the right moves in bringing in Smith, Maia and ANO over the summer.
But, sometimes watching the games it is like being a loyal Pitt fan and getting hit in the face with sh*t for it.
So, IMO Dixon has got to turn the program around THIS YEAR. If not, good chance I will just turn the whole thing off until such time as things change, with or without Dixon. I can only put up with so much stupidity and ignorance.
I would not be surprised if a lot of other Pitt fans feel like I do. The last four years have been pretty frustrating.
Maybe Coach Duzz will turns things around with the football program. He at least has to do better than the NCAA record tying 5 turnovers in the first 5 possessions that we got from Chryst.
As far as Dixon is concerned, HOPEFULLY he is going in the right direction but, from what I have seen over the last four years, I am not gonna believe it until I see it.
I don't think I am being unfair or unreasonable on this (yeah, just a bit wordy).
I'm far from thinking about firing, but am worried now after how last year came apart and the wheels totally fell off. I'm hoping it was a blip and not as far away as it seemed.
No one knows what arrangements were tried after the move. Syracuse was a charter member of the BE, as were UCONN/GT & Nova. Boeheim goes back a long way. Maybe we tried to schedule those guys, maybe not. Maybe they all wanted our "home" games at the Consol?? Dixon played the RPI like a Stradivarius....we somehow played a hard enough schedule to get #1 seeds. The only stupidity & ignorance I see is on this board.
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