Louisville Game & Other Dribbles ...

[Vader_Storm]

The potential is there and when teams get older and stay together, they typically win. If, and its a big if, the top 6 guys come back, or at least 5, this team could legitimately be a top half ACC team next season.

We need to win some games. And I firmly believe we are going to win our share starting real soon.

For reference, Louisville has the best defense in the league efficiency wise and we put up a team offensive efficiency rating of 120 against them on the road with Hugley riding the bench the 1st half, which was by far our best offensive performance of the entire season. One game does not equal a trend, but the offensive spacing difference with Ithiel Horton on the floor was enormous last night, just like I said it would be. Louisville couldn't pack in the paint, and Hugley punished them in the 2nd half.

The defense needs to find a way to not let off the gas pedal in the last 5 minutes of these games and we are going to start to win them real soon. We are very close to flipping the switch and turning things around. But the team needs to be locked in on defense for 40 minutes, 35 minutes isnt going to cut it.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

There’s zero percent chance the top 6 guys come back as Gueye can’t. But there is also zero percent chance the top 6 not including Gueye come back.

Not talking about Gueye as I know he's out of eligibility.

For Capel to come back, he has to return:

Hugley

3 of the following 4
Femi
Burton
Horton
Sibande

Return 3 of those 4 and do well in free agency, and its a top half ACC team next year. Or we can pay him $3 million to sit home while some CAA coach goes 2-18 with 12 new players.

 

[Vader_Storm]

Not talking about Gueye as I know he's out of eligibility.

For Capel to come back, he has to return:

Hugley

3 of the following 4
Femi
Burton
Horton
Sibande

Return 3 of those 4 and do well in free agency, and its a top half ACC team next year. Or we can pay him $3 million to sit home while some CAA coach goes 2-18 with 12 new players.

Im warming up to this idea and I think its starting to become possible we could make a significant move in the standings next year.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Not talking about Gueye as I know he's out of eligibility.

For Capel to come back, he has to return:

Hugley

3 of the following 4
Femi
Burton
Horton
Sibande

Return 3 of those 4 and do well in free agency, and its a top half ACC team next year. Or we can pay him $3 million to sit home while some CAA coach goes 2-18 with 12 new players.

They still would have no PG, no 4 man, and average guards. And every other team will not be bad this year since they get actual recruit.

and some combination of Femi and another guard will not be back

 

[Chescat]

I get it, Chescat, but how much could he actually have been saying only a minute into the game. The Tech of Hugley and Capel were both bullshit.

Yes as I said above, I'm
not excusing the ref. I
also said (agreeing with
Joe) that the ref was too
quick with the call at
1:12. Again what we
don't know is what else
Capel said, HOW he said
it, and what history there
is between these two. My
experience with this crap
is...when there's history
or bad blood between a
coach and ref, they're both
looking real hard for any
little thing. As another
poster stated, some refs
are way too "thin skinned."
This too is true. With all
that said, I also believe a
coach needs to "pick his
spots" as to when and
How.

As for Hugley, I don't know
what he did or said. My guess
is he said something. When
this is going on, it's easy for
a player to get Tee'd up for
the least little thing. Much
as I like him, Hugley does
over react on some calls.
Refs talk with each other,
they know which players do
and don't. These (not all)
are weak refs IMO, but some
do exist.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I disagree 100%. Hugley will be one of the best players in the ACC next season and would be the biggest reason why we're good....if we're good. For me, the decision to keep Capel comes down to who he returns. If Hugley leaves, the team will suck so there's no point in sucking with a coach who will be fired after 22-23. If Hugley plus the guards stay, the team has a chance to be good so there's no point in paying him $3 million to sit at home when he has 6 legit ACC players and could add a few more in the portal.

What Hugley decides to do absolutely has an effect on Capel's future.

You can disagree all you want. But leaders who are in charge of things make big decisions that are based on criteria far beyond next year. As they should.

 

[gary2]

Not talking about Gueye as I know he's out of eligibility.

For Capel to come back, he has to return:

Hugley

3 of the following 4
Femi
Burton
Horton
Sibande

Return 3 of those 4 and do well in free agency, and its a top half ACC team next year. Or we can pay him $3 million to sit home while some CAA coach goes 2-18 with 12 new players.

The degree of positivity for this is baffling.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I didn’t even notice you responded to me until it was quoted here, but yeah, this is pretty much the dumbest line of thinking I’ve ever seen.

Off court issues - Horton, Hugley, banging each other’s GFs

on court issues - not winning, not much of a plan offensively

recruiting issues - 1 HS recruit in 21, 0 in 22

retention issues - we have 1 player left from his first 2 classes

Louisville and UVA are not good teams this year…

they don’t have all these underlying issues. Apples and oranges

Then there’s 5 yrs of guaranteed money !

Should Tampa fire Arians for ABs antics , this nonsense is everywhere .

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Then there’s 5 yrs of guaranteed money !

Should Tampa fire Arians for ABs antics , this nonsense is everywhere .

I’m sorry, I agree. Coach Capel won the National title last year right? You make the dumbest analogies of any human I’ve ever witnessed. Who is the next coach who has issues off the field you’ll compare him to? Nick Saban?

There isn’t 5 years of guaranteed money, that’s never how contracts work. The buyout is less than 10 mill and unless you’re involved with the $, why do you care?

 

[PittMBA]

Are you assuming Femi transfers?

Oops !! No , simply forgot to include Femi !

 

[Chescat]

I mean, not to toot my own horn, but I pretty much led that charge about femi’s ability to Play PG as he is pretty clearly a 3 all summer and people were all over me.

Yeah I agree with that you
did. As for me, anyone who
reads my posts pre season,
knows that I repeat... "I need
to see them in real time, game
time before I predict." that
holds true for both players
and the team as a whole. I
do like Femi, and I feel he's
trying hard...but IMO he is
not a pg.

 

[sonofabit]

OK. I'll bite and answer
your question. I don't
think the play is because
"the players are better
than what many thought."
I still maintain the collected
talent level is "average " at
best. Hugley is the exception.

As far as the coaching,
IMO it's obvious that
Capel has them playing
hard and together. That
is good coaching.
Unfortunately that's not
enough. I feel Capel is
totally responsible for this
poor collection of talent
in his fourth year. THAT is
also coaching.

Well he did have Sibande in his plans. Not defending anyone, but JC expected him to be one of his better options this year. That would be 7-8 deep. Teams who count on players 9 thru 13 aren’t going to be good anyway. Going forward, the portal will be a friend to all coaches. I’m not going to research previous posts but some posters wanted to buy a bus ticket for Mo after a game or two fresh from the portal. Playing without two guards who may have helped Mo find his niche quicker than it happened.

 

[rockypanther]

We’ll see how that shakes out. Better play on the court may lead to different attitudes from recruits. And we are getting pretty good play from transfer kids. The portal is a major source of talent now.

I am speaking to the article from
Avery Brown who commented on the lack of commitment drom the staff in recruting and that wasn’t the only recruit that we should be after commenting on that. Also, unless Capel gets us to the tourney every recruit knows he is on the hot seat and they aren’t signing up for that. Living in the transfer portal is not a recipe for success unless you are Eric Musselman. We have largely struck out in the portal except for getting decent play from a one year rental
in Mo and some decent play from Burton.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You can disagree all you want. But leaders who are in charge of things make big decisions that are based on criteria far beyond next year. As they should.

And the short-term future still is considered, you have to admit. If he can return his best players, it is financially foolish to pay him $3 million not to coach so we can hire a lottery ticket.

 

[rockypanther]

Not talking about Gueye as I know he's out of eligibility.

For Capel to come back, he has to return:

Hugley

3 of the following 4
Femi
Burton
Horton
Sibande

Return 3 of those 4 and do well in free agency, and its a top half ACC team next year. Or we can pay him $3 million to sit home while some CAA coach goes 2-18 with 12 new players.

We need to start the rebuild at some point. Capel has never coached a complete season with way better talent than you cited at Oklahoma. His coaching staff is weak. And we have zero recruits. Plus we have always lost good players of our own to the portal. I am looking at 3 years from now. Might as well get a coach who may have a chance at getting us to a tourney 2-3 years from now.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

They still would have no PG, no 4 man, and average guards. And every other team will not be bad this year since they get actual recruit.

and some combination of Femi and another guard will not be back

Hugley + those 4 with 1-2 pieces in the portal and our lineup will be as good as anyone not named Duke or maybe UNC. Hugley is going to be a star. Like All-American level good

 

[rockypanther]

And the short-term future still is considered, you have to admit. If he can return his best players, it is financially foolish to pay him $3 million not to coach so we can hire a lottery ticket.

We have a lottery ticket now and it is a loser. Why would you keep holding onto hat loser lottery ticket thinking it’s going to be a winner. Eat the 3 million and start the search for his replacement. We don’t need a lottery ticket either. Just someone who can get us back to the tourney.

 

[gary2]

Not talking about Gueye as I know he's out of eligibility.

For Capel to come back, he has to return:

Hugley

3 of the following 4
Femi
Burton
Horton
Sibande

Return 3 of those 4 and do well in free agency, and its a top half ACC team next year. Or we can pay him $3 million to sit home while some CAA coach goes 2-18 with 12 new players.

Let’s say everyone comes back that can come back. This would be the 2 deep of adequate players:

PG - ? and ?
2G - Nike and Horton
SF - Burton and Odukale
PF - ? And ?
C - Hugley and ?

That is 5 question marks, the bulk who have to be solid transfers. Certainly the starting PG and PF have to be.

The other 3 questions marks need to be good enough to play 4-8 minutes and not kill the team like Jeffress and Collier do.

This is never gonna happen. First, Capel is incapable of delivering this type of recruiting. Second, Hugley can leave and go to a ton of better situations. Who really believes he isn’t going to do that?

 

[rockypanther]

Hugley + those 4 with 1-2 pieces in the portal and our lineup will be as good as anyone not named Duke or maybe UNC. Hugley is going to be a star. Like All-American level good

You are crazy.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

According to Craig Meyer he yelled "No way" at the ref and that's what got him the technical.

And before someone says that there's "no way" that that's all it took for the ref to call a technical, one I guess you could say benefit of there being so few people at the Petersen Center is that you hear things that you normally wouldn't. And we've had an opposing coach this year get a technical called on him for yelling "that's not a foul" after a call that he didn't like.

I mean given we had T's for yelling "and one"last year which literally happens 20 times a game, does it shock you that the refs would call a T on that.

I don't know what happened at the end, but it was an absolute clown show with all the T's.

 

[pittjas]

Hugley + those 4 with 1-2 pieces in the portal and our lineup will be as good as anyone not named Duke or maybe UNC. Hugley is going to be a star. Like All-American level good

No it’s not because the other teams have actual recruiting classes coming in + will land impact transfers.

Our absolute best case scenario is that everyone comes back, we land 2 transfers like Burton/Gueye and that puts us at like 10/11 in the conference next year likely with an outside shot at going for the bubble.

That’s best case… does that really excite you?

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

And the short-term future still is considered, you have to admit. If he can return his best players, it is financially foolish to pay him $3 million not to coach so we can hire a lottery ticket.

Of course it is considered but the decision cannot be and will not be based on that. If they look at this and feel pretty sure that there’s little hope beyond next year the trigger needs to be pulled. You’ve said yourself give him next year then get rid of him. Sorry but no. That’s just digging the hole deeper unless they believe he can turn it around long term.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Bottom line. Pitt is playing way better than any of us expected. I know that people like Gary and Poker can't admit that, but it certainly is a pretty solid job by Capel of coaching the team he has.

With that said, it is also Capel's fault that the players have to be coached up like this. Much like I used to say to people that would say "Narduzzi didn't coach the WR's to drop balls or not block" it was his players. The players on the court are Capel's responsibility and they aren't good enough.

Bottom line, unless they win 6+ ACC games he shouldn't be back. I like him, think he is a good guy, but the talent just hasn't been there.

I do think thought the people that are giving Capel and the team zero credit right now are pretty ridiculous, though I am also self aware enough to know I criticized Narduzzi pretty heavily in the past so it might be a bit hypocritical.

 

[Vader_Storm]

Of course it is considered but the decision cannot be and will not be based on that. If they look at this and feel pretty sure that there’s little hope beyond next year the trigger needs to be pulled. You’ve said yourself give him next year then get rid of him. Sorry but no. That’s just digging the hole deeper unless they believe he can turn it around long term.

3 of our top 4 leading scorers are underclassmen. And this team can still win 6+ acc games this year without Sibande.

 

[gary2]

Bottom line. Pitt is playing way better than any of us expected. I know that people like Gary and Poker can't admit that, but it certainly is a pretty solid job by Capel of coaching the team he has.

With that said, it is also Capel's fault that the players have to be coached up like this. Much like I used to say to people that would say "Narduzzi didn't coach the WR's to drop balls or not block" it was his players. The players on the court are Capel's responsibility and they aren't good enough.

Bottom line, unless they win 6+ ACC games he shouldn't be back. I like him, think he is a good guy, but the talent just hasn't been there.

I do think thought the people that are giving Capel and the team zero credit right now are pretty ridiculous, though I am also self aware enough to know I criticized Narduzzi pretty heavily in the past so it might be a bit hypocritical.

Very reasonable post

If we were only to win 4, we would be 19-58. That is less than 25%.

After 4 years, and you have the 4th year sub 25, how could one possibly bring the coach of THAT back?

 

[JS School]

Does anyone what Mack said or did to get the T near the end of the game?

 

[TWPitt]

They still would have no PG, no 4 man, and average guards. And every other team will not be bad this year since they get actual recruit.

and some combination of Femi and another guard will not be back

Not sure about Femi but I don’t think there’s any guarantee Nike comes back and is the same player after an ACL injury.

 

[pittjas]

Bottom line. Pitt is playing way better than any of us expected. I know that people like Gary and Poker can't admit that, but it certainly is a pretty solid job by Capel of coaching the team he has.

With that said, it is also Capel's fault that the players have to be coached up like this. Much like I used to say to people that would say "Narduzzi didn't coach the WR's to drop balls or not block" it was his players. The players on the court are Capel's responsibility and they aren't good enough.

Bottom line, unless they win 6+ ACC games he shouldn't be back. I like him, think he is a good guy, but the talent just hasn't been there.

I do think thought the people that are giving Capel and the team zero credit right now are pretty ridiculous, though I am also self aware enough to know I criticized Narduzzi pretty heavily in the past so it might be a bit hypocritical.

This is a great post. Because you’re giving credit but yet still including what I have in bold.

I honestly don’t see anyone giving him no credit. Everyone has acknowledged how much better we’re playing and how much more fun it is to watch.

People only push back because we lose a few close games and people are then convinced we need to keep Capel and he has us going in the right direction and blah blah blah. That’s where it all becomes silly.

Capel’s “coaching” has always been unfairly bashed. I mean he’s not elite Xs and Os and the offense is a bit bare at times but he’s fine for the most part and can keep you in games.

The coaching hasn’t been the main issue. It’s the roster building, recruiting, and retaining players. None of those issues have been fixed (yet). And some of it would likely require changing assts which he doesn’t seem willing to do.

So yes. We should all just enjoy this process while acknowledging A LOT would have to go right (that goes against what has happened here so far) for him to win here… and frankly I’m not sure he even wants to be here anymore. I don’t think people would be so hard on this team if people acknowledged that.

 

[TWPitt]

This is a great post. Because you’re giving credit but yet still including what I have in bold.

I honestly don’t see anyone giving him no credit. Everyone has acknowledged how much better we’re playing and how much more fun it is to watch.

People only push back because we lose a few close games and people are then convinced we need to keep Capel and he has us going in the right direction and blah blah blah. That’s where it all becomes silly.

Capel’s “coaching” has always been unfairly bashed. I mean he’s not elite Xs and Os and the offense is a bit bare at times but he’s fine for the most part and can keep you in games.

The coaching hasn’t been the main issue. It’s the roster building, recruiting, and retaining players. None of those issues have been fixed (yet). And some of it would likely require changing assts which he doesn’t seem willing to do.

So yes. We should all just enjoy this process while acknowledging A LOT would have to go right (that goes against what has happened here so far) for him to win here… and frankly I’m not sure he even wants to be here anymore. I don’t think people would be so hard on this team if people acknowledged that.

This post should be pinned.

 

[Vader_Storm]

This is a great post. Because you’re giving credit but yet still including what I have in bold.

I honestly don’t see anyone giving him no credit. Everyone has acknowledged how much better we’re playing and how much more fun it is to watch.

People only push back because we lose a few close games and people are then convinced we need to keep Capel and he has us going in the right direction and blah blah blah. That’s where it all becomes silly.

Capel’s “coaching” has always been unfairly bashed. I mean he’s not elite Xs and Os and the offense is a bit bare at times but he’s fine for the most part and can keep you in games.

The coaching hasn’t been the main issue. It’s the roster building, recruiting, and retaining players. None of those issues have been fixed (yet). And some of it would likely require changing assts which he doesn’t seem willing to do.

So yes. We should all just enjoy this process while acknowledging A LOT would have to go right (that goes against what has happened here so far) for him to win here… and frankly I’m not sure he even wants to be here anymore. I don’t think people would be so hard on this team if people acknowledged that.

If Capel didnt want to be here, this team would have quit on him weeks ago and he would have quit just like Stallings did when Stallings was caught sleeping at recruiting events. The complete opposite happened, they continue to come out and fight shorthanded and we have come up short time and time again by 1 or 2 points. And no, Capel did not stop recruiting at all.

The only thing that has not happened yet to prove people wrong and shut people up is wins. Because people are still going to bitch and complain game after game until the team wins games which is to be expected. But when the team starts winning games by 1 point instead of losing games by 1 point, the narrative will change.

Capel has to win. But I know for a fact there is still significant talent looking at coming to Pitt in 2022 and 2023 classes. Its on Capel and the team to win games right now this year. And the next game should be a win, we will be favored to win the game.

 

[PittPharm2002]

We are playing good team defense .
I even like that we are using different zones pretty effectively .

the question with Capel’s coaching at Pitt is always about not having a coherent identity on offense .
We seem to run essentially 2 sets , and mostly it’s 2-3 guys standing around .
We are also awful on the break - honestly the worst fast break I’ve ever seen

That we are in year 4 with very different personnel and the same offensive issues -
Is the problem.

defense has been pretty good all along, and has been very good the past 8 games.

If we had a few good recruits in the pipeline - he’s probably safe another year or so.
Until that changes - a decision will need to be made this off season.

we all recognize that .
So let’s root for the kids to win a few this season , they deserve it

 

[KennyHeisman8]

Does anyone what Mack said or did to get the T near the end of the game?

No clue. Probably "you messed up ref" or something very tame. Those refs last night were a clown show and thin skinned as they coming. 4 t's in the first two minutes and 6 t's total? Come on.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

If Capel didnt want to be here, this team would have quit on him weeks ago and he would have quit just like Stallings did when Stallings was caught sleeping at recruiting events. The complete opposite happened, they continue to come out and fight shorthanded and we have come up short time and time again by 1 or 2 points. And no, Capel did not stop recruiting at all.

The only thing that has not happened yet to prove people wrong and shut people up is wins. Because people are still going to bitch and complain game after game until the team wins games which is to be expected. But when the team starts winning games by 1 point instead of losing games by 1 point, the narrative will change.

Capel has to win. But I know for a fact there is still significant talent looking at coming to Pitt in 2022 and 2023 classes. Its on Capel and the team to win games right now this year. And the next game should be a win, we will be favored to win the game.

Narrator: there was not

 

[TWPitt]

If Capel didnt want to be here, this team would have quit on him weeks ago and he would have quit just like Stallings did when Stallings was caught sleeping at recruiting events. The complete opposite happened, they continue to come out and fight shorthanded and we have come up short time and time again by 1 or 2 points. And no, Capel did not stop recruiting at all.

The only thing that has not happened yet to prove people wrong and shut people up is wins. Because people are still going to bitch and complain game after game until the team wins games which is to be expected. But when the team starts winning games by 1 point instead of losing games by 1 point, the narrative will change.

Capel has to win. But I know for a fact there is still significant talent looking at coming to Pitt in 2022 and 2023 classes. Its on Capel and the team to win games right now this year. And the next game should be a win, we will be favored to win the game.

He has millions of reasons not to quit and he is a pro.

Next game will be the only game this year they are a favorite in.

 

[pittjas]

If Capel didnt want to be here, this team would have quit on him weeks ago and he would have quit just like Stallings did when Stallings was caught sleeping at recruiting events. The complete opposite happened, they continue to come out and fight shorthanded and we have come up short time and time again by 1 or 2 points. And no, Capel did not stop recruiting at all.

The only thing that has not happened yet to prove people wrong and shut people up is wins. Because people are still going to bitch and complain game after game until the team wins games which is to be expected. But when the team starts winning games by 1 point instead of losing games by 1 point, the narrative will change.

Capel has to win. But I know for a fact there is still significant talent looking at coming to Pitt in 2022 and 2023 classes. Its on Capel and the team to win games right now this year. And the next game should be a win, we will be favored to win the game.

Who is considering us in 2022 class? 2023 is completely irrelevant… he won’t have a job then if he doesn’t win next year.

Also… he’s a good guy and a professional. He loves basketball. He’s not just going to pack it in and not coach at all. I’m not saying that he quit. Just that he’s worn down, tired of being publicly embarrassed, and probably willing to take a nice 8+ million dollar check and do some TV and live on the beach for a few years.

If winning was really important to him here he would have a different staff by this point.

 

[Vader_Storm]

He has millions of reasons not to quit and he is a pro.

Next game will be the only game this year they are a favorite in.

As of today that is correct although we are likely to be favored against Georgia Tech and NC State at home too.

Start winning games with Horton back, and the lines are going to be much more favorable to Pitt in the future.

 

[pittjas]

As of today that is correct although we are likely to be favored against Georgia Tech and NC State at home too.

Start winning games with Horton back, and the lines are going to be much more favorable to Pitt in the future.

Give us names of who is coming here in the 2022 class. Whether we win 3 or 5 games in the TERRIBLE ACC is irrelevant. I mean if he wins like 8 or 9 then sure that matters but that’s not happening. So… who’s coming here?

 

[PittPharm2002]

I’m sorry, I agree. Coach Capel won the National title last year right? You make the dumbest analogies of any human I’ve ever witnessed. Who is the next coach who has issues off the field you’ll compare him to? Nick Saban?

There isn’t 5 years of guaranteed money, that’s never how contracts work. The buyout is less than 10 mill and unless you’re involved with the $, why do you care?

I care because pitt fans are cheap and there is a limited pool of donor money .
It’s a scarce resource , so as a booster - I want stewardship of those funds

 

[TWPitt]

As of today that is correct although we are likely to be favored against Georgia Tech at home too.

Start winning games with Horton back, and the lines are going to be much more favorable to Pitt in the future.

the idea of Horton is better than the reality of Horton - watching him last night reminded me of him all last year. He is a good shooter but overall is an average Guard, what we gain in offense from him we likely lose on defensive as he is slower, shorter and less athletic than Will. Not the best decision maker either and as we saw all last year and last night, the coaches don't run plays to get him open for catch and shoot opportunities -- if he had 1-2 of the shots Mo had maybe we win. He disappears for long stretches like the second half last night.

I understand he will make it easier for John to score and create more lanes to drive but what we lose in other areas I don't think we see much of a net gain.

 

[Vader_Storm]

the idea of Horton is better than the reality of Horton - watching him last night reminded me of him all last year. He is a good shooter but overall is an average Guard, what we gain in offense from him we likely lose on defensive as he is slower, shorter and less athletic than Will. Not the best decision maker either and as we saw all last year and last night, the coaches don't run plays to get him open for catch and shoot opportunities -- if he had 1-2 of the shots Mo had maybe we win. He disappears for long stretches like the second half last night.

I understand he will make it easier for John to score and create more lanes to drive but what we lose in other areas I don't think we see much of a net gain.

The offense last night ran at a 120 ORTG offensive efficiency. The offense was plenty good to win last night, without Hugley even playing in the first half.

If the defense didnt fully collapse in the last 6 minutes or so in the game, we easily could have won. We lost to a team on the road by 3 points who is in 1st place and undefeated in ACC play. Lets not act like we lost to BC on the road. Pitt has been beating the spread every game recently.