Louisville & the ACC

[pittmeister]

Louisville is exhibit A as to why you don’t invite a school into a conference based solely on the recent success of their sports program.

The big reason WVU was not allowed into the ACC was because of academics. So they take Louisville instead even with their bad academics because of their recent success in football and their basketball program...

Now what do you have? A bunch of cheaters...They bring a small TV market and that’s it... We would have been much better off with Cincinnati. A bigger market and better academics...

 

[Pantherguy4]

I think West Virginia has better academics than Louisville.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Louisville just isn’t a great fit in the ACC; to me, they stick out like a sore thumb. At least we have some regional neighbors (Syracuse, Boston College) and fit the conference’s academic profile. The thing is, who else would’ve been a realistic option that was truly a better fit?

On a side note, I really wish Maryland never left. Was hoping we could develop some sort of rivalry with them. Alas, it wasn’t meant to be.

 

[WVUinColumbus]

Different time. Realignment was obviously about cable subscriptions/population density. Rutgers. Enough said.

 

[pbrad]

I don't really know anything about a schools academics, the ACC is a sports conference. Is Alabama the ivy league school of the SEC or are they a really good football school. The big ten brags about academics yet they took Nebraska and also started playing football this year when they saw they would fall behind the schools that decided to play. Conferences are all about sports and money. Louisville is in a slump, but will be back.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

I agree and would have preferred WVU over Lou in the ACC! I am confident that if the ACC went after WVU they would find a way to join the ACC.

I think West Virginia has better academics than Louisville.

 

[pittmeister]

If you are going to wave the academics threshold, then they should have taken WVU. They bring regional rivalries if anything. If they want to stick with academics, then Cincinnati should be the choice. Louisville was a short sided choice.

Yes, they have a great basketball tradition, but in recent years it has been scandalous. Their football program is like most schools in the ACC not named Clemson FSU. It is cyclical. How long the cycle is depends on the AD and the administrations of each school.

 

[ThePanthers]

I do think if after umd left wvu wasn't already in the big xii with the gor, the acc would have taken them over Louisville.

But due to timing Louisville was the best option imo.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I think West Virginia has better academics than Louisville.

They don't.

 

[upj87]

Louisville is exhibit A as to why you don’t invite a school into a conference based solely on the recent success of their sports program.

The big reason WVU was not allowed into the ACC was because of academics. So they take Louisville instead even with their bad academics because of their recent success in football and their basketball program...

Now what do you have? A bunch of cheaters...They bring a small TV market and that’s it... We would have been much better off with Cincinnati. A bigger market and better academics...

yeah, those Johnny Come Lately hoopsters...

 

[CrazyPaco]

I do think if after umd left wvu wasn't already in the big xii with the gor, the acc would have taken them over Louisville.

But due to timing Louisville was the best option imo.

I don't know about that. I think the ACC still goes with Louisville, but the choice would have been tougher.

Assuming football was close to a wash at the time, Louisville had:
Better overall facilities
Higher stature hoops
Athletic department generates significantly more revenue
New market
Better demographics
Better Olympic sports
Reputation for fans behavior better than abysmal
Southern, which appealed to some southern football members

WVU would have had some allies though, like Pitt. But WVU also apparently has some historical baggage with some old ACC members going back to the Southern Conference

 

[h2p_5150]

WVU brings nothing of importance to ACC higher ups. What TV market does WVU open up? Pitt already gets the ACC into Pittsburgh. Louisville is a new market.

All this talk of regional rivalries, Olympic sports... none of it matters.

 

[WVUinColumbus]

I do think if after umd left wvu wasn't already in the big xii with the gor, the acc would have taken them over Louisville.

But due to timing Louisville was the best option imo.

If realignment happened 10 years later (ie. Now), WVU and Louisville would be the selections for the ACC over Pitt and Syracuse because of shift in television consumption.

 

[joeydavid]

If realignment happened 10 years later (ie. Now), WVU and Louisville would be the selections for the ACC over Pitt and Syracuse because of shift in television consumption.

Ok hoopie.

 

[HailToPitt725]

If realignment happened 10 years later (ie. Now), WVU and Louisville would be the selections for the ACC over Pitt and Syracuse because of shift in television consumption.

I think that’s hard to say. Louisville and WVU have likely had the better football and basketball programs since Pitt and Syracuse joined the ACC. However, assuming all things equal and they’re all still in the Big East up until now, there’s a good chance that Pitt and Syracuse’s basketball programs are doing much better right now and Pitt’s football program has a better decade as well.

At that point, it’s much more difficult to say which ones get picked over the other with the shift in consumption. Don’t forget that academics are likely still a factor as well.

 

[WVUinColumbus]

I think that’s hard to say. Louisville and WVU have likely had the better football and basketball programs since Pitt and Syracuse joined the ACC. However, assuming all things equal and they’re all still in the Big East up until now, there’s a good chance that Pitt and Syracuse’s basketball programs are doing much better right now and Pitt’s football program has a better decade as well.

At that point, it’s much more difficult to say which ones get picked over the other with the shift in consumption. Don’t forget that academics are likely still a factor as well.

Prioritizing academic prowess in matters concerning “big business” athletic conference affiliation is a sure fire way to find oneself “left behind” in 2020 and beyond. That wasn’t the case a decade ago. The next phase of college football (not the other sports) will eliminate the likes of the underbelly of current conferences (ie. Wake Forest, Syracuse, BC, Vandy, etc) in favor of a more merit-based conglomeration of teams that have regional association. I also won’t be surprised if there is a division at the top (10–15 elite programs) that is delineated from the other programs.

The only certainty is that the current structure, with regards to college football, is going to look completely different from the current conference construct.

 

[Burgh15]

All this talk of regional rivalries, Olympic sports... none of it matters.

Ballooning cost of college athletics including, decreasing income with the pandemic, attendance numbers trending down...yeah, I think regional rivalries could help boost some of that.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Prioritizing academic prowess in matters concerning “big business” athletic conference affiliation is a sure fire way to find oneself “left behind” in 2020 and beyond. That wasn’t the case a decade ago. The next phase of college football (not the other sports) will eliminate the likes of the underbelly of current conferences (ie. Wake Forest, Syracuse, BC, Vandy, etc) in favor of a more merit-based conglomeration of teams that have regional association. I also won’t be surprised if there is a division at the top (10–15 elite programs) that is delineated from the other programs.

The only certainty is that the current structure, with regards to college football, is going to look completely different from the current conference construct.

I’m not saying I disagree with what you’re saying, because I don’t, but that’s just how I would’ve seen it unfolding today.

I do think you’re correct in the direction that realignment is going, and I’ve even posted about it a few times on here over the past couple years. It becomes a greater possibility when you consider that tech giants such as Amazon, Google, etc. will likely be entering the war for game rights. They’ll have so much money at their disposal that they could likely offer schools 10x what they’re currently getting (plus cover exit costs) to create “super leagues,” which is what you allude to. Quality over quantity will become the name of the game and Ohio State will be playing the likes of USC and Texas on a weekly basis, not Northweterrn and Indiana.

That’s why as much as I want to see the playoff expanded and more representation be added, it almost appears like it’s headed in the opposite direction.

 

[Gary77]

If realignment happened 10 years later (ie. Now), WVU and Louisville would be the selections for the ACC over Pitt and Syracuse because of shift in television consumption.

LOL!! 😂 😂 😂 😂

 

[WVUinColumbus]

I’m not saying I disagree with what you’re saying, because I don’t, but that’s just how I would’ve seen it unfolding today.

I do think you’re correct in the direction that realignment is going, and I’ve even posted about it a few times on here over the past couple years. It becomes a greater possibility when you consider that tech giants such as Amazon, Google, etc. will likely be entering the war for game rights. They’ll have so much money at their disposal that they could likely offer schools 10x what they’re currently getting (plus cover exit costs) to create “super leagues,” which is what you allude to. Quality over quantity will become the name of the game and Ohio State will be playing the likes of USC and Texas on a weekly basis, not Northweterrn and Indiana.

That’s why as much as I want to see the playoff expanded and more representation be added, it almost appears like it’s headed in the opposite direction.

Completely agree. And that’s what it’s going to take to save the sport of college football. The times of elite teams (ie. TOSU, Bama, etc) playing 2-3 meaningful games per season, due to simply overwhelming the others, is on borrowed time. Otherwise, the product won’t survive.

 

[CrazyPaco]

If realignment happened 10 years later (ie. Now), WVU and Louisville would be the selections for the ACC over Pitt and Syracuse because of shift in television consumption.

Nope

 

[PittMiamiRivalry]

yeah, those Johnny Come Lately hoopsters...

West Virginia was off the table because they had to join the Big 12 in 2012. They paid a big penalty to the Big East for leaving a year earlier than Pitt or Syracuse. The Big 12 gave them no choice. If the ACC hadn't come through for Pitt, Texas was looking at us because of our academics. Imagine WVU and Pitt in the Big 12.

 

[HailToPitt725]

West Virginia was off the table because they had to join the Big 12 in 2012. They paid a big penalty to the Big East for leaving a year earlier than Pitt or Syracuse. The Big 12 gave them no choice. If the ACC hadn't come through for Pitt, Texas was looking at us because of our academics. Imagine WVU and Pitt in the Big 12.

Nice to know that we had a life vest either way. And, as a Kansas City resident, I might’ve been the only Pitt fan happy with us being in the Big XII!

 

[WVUinColumbus]

Nice to know that we had a life vest either way. And, as a Kansas City resident, I might’ve been the only Pitt fan happy with us being in the Big XII!

No, there would’ve been a lot of Pitt fans happy in the XII had you essentially been forced to do so like WVU. Although it would’ve sucked for travel, no teams really traveled much in Big East days (very few anyway). That’s the benefit Pitt has in the ACC. They’d love the biannual trek to Austin. Pitt’s hoops rivals all were left to a hoops only conference anyway.

And football is way more exciting with larger land-grant brands who desire football over hoops as opposed to many of the Tobacco Road brands who draw 35-40k in real attendance. And as Chris Spatola and Jay Bilas annually state, Pitt would be joining the best hoops conference in the country “pound for pound”.

 

[HailToPitt725]

No, there would’ve been a lot of Pitt fans happy in the XII had you essentially been forced to do so like WVU. Although it would’ve sucked for travel, no teams really traveled much in Big East days (very few anyway). That’s the benefit Pitt has in the ACC. They’d love the biannual trek to Austin. Pitt’s hoops rivals all were left to a hoops only conference anyway.

And football is way more exciting with larger land-grant brands who desire football over hoops as opposed to many of the Tobacco Road brands who draw 35-40k in real attendance. And as Chris Spatola and Jay Bilas annually state, Pitt would be joining the best hoops conference in the country “pound for pound”.

All good points. And I believe it. We try to make it to a couple Big XII Tournament games every year at the Sprint Center. Great basketball. The pre-game festivities at Power & Light are always fun, too.

 

[WVUinColumbus]

All good points. And I believe it. We try to make it to a couple Big XII Tournament games every year at the Sprint Center. Great basketball. The pre-game festivities at Power & Light are always fun, too.

My brother and 3 friends of ours go to one of the 2 Sat/Mon hoops trips (WVU does this annually to save on travel expenses) and always try to hit Austin. 3 years ago we hit TCU game and stayed in Metroplex night before and drove down to Austin for 2 nights before Big Monday game in Waco. Rented a Lambo and hit that toll road between Metroplex and Austin where speed limit is 85. Fun trip 🤣! Definitely want to get to the conference tourney. Won’t be the same as MSG but I’ve heard KC does a great job, as you said.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Yeah you’re history is a little off. WVU wasn’t there. (Even though some B12 wanted to renege and take Ville instead).

 

[ThePanthers]

If realignment happened 10 years later (ie. Now), WVU and Louisville would be the selections for the ACC over Pitt and Syracuse because of shift in television consumption.

I dont think that would be true.

 

[CrazyPaco]

West Virginia was off the table because they had to join the Big 12 in 2012. They paid a big penalty to the Big East for leaving a year earlier than Pitt or Syracuse. The Big 12 gave them no choice. If the ACC hadn't come through for Pitt, Texas was looking at us because of our academics. Imagine WVU and Pitt in the Big 12.

The B12 wanted Pitt. Pitt stalled because it didn't want to be on an island. Pitt was pushing the B12 to be taken as a package with WVU and one of Rutgers or Louisville. How close Pitt was to landing in the B12 is one of the reasons the ACC invite came when it did. Pitt also recommended WVU and Rutgers to the ACC.

Pretty much Pitt, WVU, and RU were leading the football interests in the Big East and were all on the same page. They were the block that brought in TCU, tried to bring in UCF, and opposed the Villanova solution.

 

[ThePanthers]

As for the TV thing changing everything, sec and acc are locked up with ESPN until the mid 2030s. And good luck getting everyone on the same page to make a change. For all the moving around over the past 3 decades, its pretty much been the same 65 teams.

Maybe I'll be wrong, I can't see some structural blow up, especially with the strength and traditions of the big 10 and sec.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Louisville is exhibit A as to why you don’t invite a school into a conference based solely on the recent success of their sports program.

The big reason WVU was not allowed into the ACC was because of academics. So they take Louisville instead even with their bad academics because of their recent success in football and their basketball program...

Now what do you have? A bunch of cheaters...They bring a small TV market and that’s it... We would have been much better off with Cincinnati. A bigger market and better academics...

I hope you arent serious. Cincinnati over Louisville??? You must be high. Louisville is a big boy athletics program. They even cheat like the big boys do because winning is important to them. Cincy plays in a glorified HS team and is Ohio State's little b*****. Louisville is big-time. If we're going to take an urban commuter school that nobody cares out, you take Temple over Cincinnati all day. Lots of eyeballs and recruits in Philly.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

No, there would’ve been a lot of Pitt fans happy in the XII had you essentially been forced to do so like WVU. Although it would’ve sucked for travel, no teams really traveled much in Big East days (very few anyway). That’s the benefit Pitt has in the ACC. They’d love the biannual trek to Austin. Pitt’s hoops rivals all were left to a hoops only conference anyway.

And football is way more exciting with larger land-grant brands who desire football over hoops as opposed to many of the Tobacco Road brands who draw 35-40k in real attendance. And as Chris Spatola and Jay Bilas annually state, Pitt would be joining the best hoops conference in the country “pound for pound”.

As opposed to the American Athletic Conference, yes. And although ACC basketball is dreadful, I still prefed it to the Big 12. The Big 12, to me is a Texas League (4 TX schools plus OU and OKST) with 4 northern outliers. I dont like the setup.

 

[Dointhatrag]

WVU offers nothing now or have ever to National markets. They have always been a hillbilly joke with the rifle and coon skin cap. They bring zero eyeballs. Acc made the right choice. Bing 12 was stuck trying to find anyone willing to join after many schools jumped ship. Now you have a school 1000 miles from the rest of the conference and no sign of developing a rivalry in the conference. So glad Pitt didn’t have to go down that sewer pipe

 

[Panthergrowl13]

If realignment happened 10 years later (ie. Now), WVU and Louisville would be the selections for the ACC over Pitt and Syracuse because of shift in television consumption.

Aside from schools having quality academic programs consistent with other ACC Conference members, the ACC was also interested in starting its own Network. The ACC in consultation with ABC/ESPN/Consultants were informed that bringing in Pitt (Pennsylvania), Syracuse (New York) and Notre Dame (all sports less football/National TV interest) would form the critical mass necessary (TV viewership) to allow the ACC to form its own network (ACCN).

Remember, the Big 12 is the only P-5 Conference not to have its own Network.
When the Big 12 recently looked to expand, no combination of additional teams would bring in additional revenue or the possibility of forming a Big 12 Network. That is the reason the Big 12 remains a 10 member conference with concerns that Texas and Oklahoma may want to leave one day initiating another round of conference realignment.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[BurghGuy68]

2020 US News Academic Rankings

ACC:
10. Duke
15. Notre Dame
27. Wake Forest
28. Virginia
29. Georgia Tech
29. North Carolina
37. Boston College
54. Syracuse
57T. Pitt
57T. U of Miami
57T. Florida State
70. Clemson
74. Virginia Tech
84. NC State
192. Louisville

Here are the other two power conferences which border the ACC...

Big Ten: 9. Northwestern, 25. Michigan, 46. Wisconsin, 48. Illinois, 54. Ohio State, 57. Penn State, 57. Purdue, 62. Rutgers, 64. Maryland, 70. Minnesota, 79. Indiana, 84. Michigan State, 84. Iowa, 139. Nebraska

SEC: 15. Vanderbilt, 34. Florida, 50. Georgia, 70. Texas A&M, 104. Auburn, 104. S Carolina, 104. Tennessee, 132. Kentucky, 139. Missouri, 153. LSU, 153. Alabama, 153. Arkansas, 162. Mississippi, 211. Miss. State

Big XII: 48. Texas, 79. Baylor, 97. TCU, 121. Iowa State, 130. Kansas, 132. Oklahoma, 162. Kansas State, 192. Oklahoma St, 218. Texas Tech, 228. W Virginia

Link

 

[Pizzaboy2]

Believe me I'm not smart enough to get in this conversation about where and why wvu landed where they did.I am smart enough to know that if Wvu was playing Kansas and Pitt was Wake Forest in football who would have the bigger tv viewing.The same if Pitt was playing Clemson and Wvu playing Oklahoma.This doesn't matter it's the number of tv sets in the region not whats playing on those tv sets,right Paco?Academics is what matters to conferences not athletics.If you believe this I have some beach front property to sell you down here in Greene County.

 

[WVUinColumbus]

Believe me I'm not smart enough to get in this conversation about where and why wvu landed where they did.I am smart enough to know that if Wvu was playing Kansas and Pitt was Wake Forest in football who would have the bigger tv viewing.The same if Pitt was playing Clemson and Wvu playing Oklahoma.This doesn't matter it's the number of tv sets in the region not whats playing on those tv sets,right Paco?Academics is what matters to conferences not athletics.If you believe this I have some beach front property to sell you down here in Greene County.

KU/WVU drew a 0.9 share (1.5M). An incredible number given the quality of the teams.

 

[Upg bobcat]

If realignment happened 10 years later (ie. Now), WVU and Louisville would be the selections for the ACC over Pitt and Syracuse because of shift in television consumption.

You are going to have to explain what you mean by shift in television consumption ... you mean less people watching sports on cable TV but increased viewership through streaming providers? Then I have to ask this question, and I'm not being facetious -- is there high speed internet throughout all parts of Kentucky/West Virginia/Appalachia that would suggest a high number of people residing in those areas watch college sports via computers/streaming?

 

[WVUinColumbus]

You are going to have to explain what you mean by shift in television consumption ... you mean less people watching sports on cable TV but increased viewership through streaming providers? Then I have to ask this question, and I'm not being facetious -- is there high speed internet throughout all parts of Kentucky/West Virginia/Appalachia that would suggest a high number of people residing in those areas watch college sports via computers/streaming?

Do people in Uniontown or Beaver Falls have high speed service? I’m not being facetious. Just messin man.

 

[pittmeister]

If realignment happened 10 years later (ie. Now), WVU and Louisville would be the selections for the ACC over Pitt and Syracuse because of shift in television consumption.

Man.... You are delusional..... WVU brings nothing but regional rivalries, nothing that matters to the decision makers. No TV market, no endowment, no academics, no national appeal.... Get a grip...