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Meltdown: Three Mile Island on Netflix

Eh, it was ok. It was really a one-sided piece from a whistle blowers perspective. Any industry folks interviewed we're edited to make look like idiots/a**holes.

What I thought was rediculous was how they were even attempting to compare to Chernobyl. That's like comparing a bad thunderstorm to an F4 tornado.
They got lucky ... it really was incredibly close to a full meltdown. And, I didn't need to watch this doc to know that. I was 12 miles away when it happened, have had enough people who would know tell me.
 
While here’s a take from an industry insider, if you will. The thing is, nuclear, as presently constituted, certainly in the US, is just not cost effective. Man. The stories I could tell. The big screw up in the then biggest market, US, was that every damn utility wanted their own plant designed to their specifications. In short, it was like building a prototype every time. But give the customer what they want, right? How’d that work out? 12 years plus construction. Ugh.
The better approach was the PWR’ built by the French, Russians. They had one plant built by the manufacturer’s specs, take it or leave it, up and running in 6 years max.
Protests had little to do with it. We just messed up on delivery. The technology is not that complicated. It’s just an instapot or pressure cooker.
Right.
People want to parrot their programmed talking points, but the reason nuclear power hasn't advanced in the US is the slavish adherence to FREE MARKET.
Cost to invest, build up and maintain it is so prohibitive.
This needed a space race public/private commitment, with the Federal government taking the lead.
 
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Kind of annoyed with the first hand accounts of the lady who was 6 years old at the time...no way, no matter how traumatic things may have been that you would remember anything with the clarity she seems to have had. Such pain in her eyes. I was 12 when a killer flood wiped out my town and I don't have the same level of recollection of events as this 6 year old seems to possess. .....Just a stupid angle for the makers of this documentary...also, the photo of the shallow water with dead fish (from somewhere) was a bit much too in as far as I know there were no reports of fish kill from the accident...

I almost turned it off early on with that woman who was 6 at the time. Nevermind what she said, the voice was super annoying.

I'm ok with the public's reaction but it seemed like padding with all of the locals saying just about the same thing every time. I'd have preferred if it were shorter and more focused on the events. And maybe include more news reports from the time.
 
I haven't watched it yet, but I will. Not surprised it's a hit piece.

Wouldn't call myself an insider, but I know a lot about the industry. I'll just say this regarding safety.... 50+ years and there hasn't been a single death at a US nuclear facility. There aren't many industries that can say that.

If there is any chance at getting carbon neutral by 2050 in a way that doesn't crush the economy, then nuclear needs to be a significant part of it. Anyone claiming otherwise is blowing smoke up your rear.
Yep. Nuclear is part of the solution. I work for a company that makes, well let's call it "carbon". Yep. We make the evil!!! SHUT US DOWN!

You need our product to drill oil and gas.
You need our product to make nuclear reactors.
You need our product to make solar energy.
You need our product to make Electric Vehicles
You need our product to make wind turbines.
You need our product to make semiconductors.
You need our product to make steel. Aluminum. Other metals.
You need our product in aerospace equipment.
You need our product for rail transportation.
Li Ion batteries and energy storage? 60-80% of the component is our product.
You need our product for the defense industry.
What's ironic, you don't need our product to mine coal.

We take petroleum feed stock and convert it to synthetic carbon and graphite.

There is your Green New Deal Lesson for the day.
 
I was old enough but young enough to fully remember the time. But did the movie China Syndrome come out before TMI or after? Because I think that already had people on edge against nuclear then TMI happened.
 
I haven't watched it yet, but I will. Not surprised it's a hit piece.

Wouldn't call myself an insider, but I know a lot about the industry. I'll just say this regarding safety.... 50+ years and there hasn't been a single death at a US nuclear facility. There aren't many industries that can say that.

If there is any chance at getting carbon neutral by 2050 in a way that doesn't crush the economy, then nuclear needs to be a significant part of it. Anyone claiming otherwise is blowing smoke up your rear.
I work for one of the DOEs largest labs. We also have a neighboring facility that does a bit more on the military side of nuclear and radiological materials. I will say, there are lots of stories of guys who put in 30 plus years at both facilities, and have cancer and other issues related to exposure. There are other chemicals and materials in use around facilities that have serious issues, beryllium is a prime example at our lab. I say lab, but we have a high flux isotope reactor for research and plenty of materials on site that have risk with exposure.
 
Right.
People want to parrot their programmed talking points, but the reason nuclear power hasn't advanced in the US is the slavish adherence to FREE MARKET.
Cost to invest, build up and maintain it is so prohibitive.
This needed a space race public/private commitment, with the Federal government taking the lead.
Cost is greatly added to by insane regulatory regime timelines and worthless litigation.
 
I was old enough but young enough to fully remember the time. But did the movie China Syndrome come out before TMI or after? Because I think that already had people on edge against nuclear then TMI happened.
Believe it was either before the event or during the cleanup phase.

Retrospectively, it is interesting that the event actually turned out to have saved lives. Frightened people ran to their doctors to be checked for possible cancer. A number of such people were found to have early stage cancers totally unrelated to the event that were diagnosed early enough to be successfully treated.
 
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China syndrome came out right around the time of TMI. If I remember correctly.
 
After the event. Slightly radioactive steam was intentionally released to depressurize the containment vessel. This was the only rad release. A hypothetical person standing at the plant fence line (there was actually no one there at the time) would have received a dose equivalent to a single chest x-ray. No one was sickened or died due to TMI.
 
"Other Side of 20-20" Documentary--Circa 1975.
Thanks, I’ll check out. I was in nuke biz at Westinghouse. Mainly overseas. Brightest guys I ever worked with anywhere were at Westinghouse Nuclear. Anyway, I don’t recall the regulatory side being a big hurdle, at least on the manufacture side. The NRC really had their stuff together. The single biggest issue for delay and overruns was that each and every utility in the states wanted their own custom plant. As noted, it’s like building a prototype every time. So it’s easy to see that regulations, inspections have to be rewritten every time.
I saw this first hand on the Sizewell B plant in the UK. Same damn thing. “We want this, not that, change this” endless. The answer is to do it like the French or Russians. We got one design, take it or leave it. Standardization. The Hinckley plant now under construction is is suffering same old. Maybe 8 years behind and cost estimated at E30 billion! Insane.
 
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Thanks, I’ll check out. I was in nuke biz at Westinghouse. Mainly overseas. Brightest guys I ever worked with anywhere were at Westinghouse Nuclear. Anyway, I don’t recall the regulatory side being a big hurdle, at least on the manufacture side. The NRC really had their stuff together. The single biggest issue for delay and overruns was that each and every utility in the states wanted their own custom plant. As noted, it’s like building a prototype every time. So it’s easy to see that regulations, inspections have to be rewritten every time.
I saw this first hand on the Sizewell B plant in the UK. Same damn thing. “We want this, not that, change this” endless. The answer is to do it like the French or Russians. We got one design, take it or leave it. Standardization. The Hinckley plant now under construction is is suffering same old. Maybe 8 years behind and cost estimated at E30 billion! Insane.
We made components for Sizewell. It was pretty funny, I headed up our Nuclear/Military components back then, worked alot with Westinghouse EMD and PAD, and GE and others like the shipbuilding companies like Electric Boat. I was in my mid to late 20's and looked like I was 15. It was great when I would talk on the phone to these program managers and Military officers then go to a meeting and they see me and watch their faces. It was a smallish company, who's former owner worked with Admiral Rickover personally on some of the components and he trained me.

So yeah, aside from Westinghouse and B&W, and GE, I have worked with Areva, Framatome, BNFL and MHI in Japan. To be honest, I am happy to NOT have these responsibilities now, just a stupid sales guy who can talk technical enough to get involved.
 
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We made components for Sizewell. It was pretty funny, I headed up our Nuclear/Military components back then, worked alot with Westinghouse EMD and PAD, and GE and others like the shipbuilding companies like Electric Boat. I was in my mid to late 20's and looked like I was 15. It was great when I would talk on the phone to these program managers and Military officers then go to a meeting and they see me and watch their faces. It was a smallish company, who's former owner worked with Admiral Rickover personally on some of the components and he trained me.

So yeah, aside from Westinghouse and B&W, and GE, I have worked with Areva, Framatome, BNFL and MHI in Japan. To be honest, I am happy to NOT have these responsibilities now, just a stupid sales guy who can talk technical enough to get involved.
Those of us who came up in the nuclear biz. To me, and I suspect you, it was like a fraternity. I loved it!!! I also worked with all the PWR companies you noted.
 
I grew up near TMI in Harrisburg. I haven’t finished the documentary but it was pretty hilarious that they didn’t mention the proximity to Harrisburg until about 40 minutes in. It was just this small little town, victims of the big nuclear man and his love of money.

The whole thing is anti-nuclear hit piece. Sadly most people are gullible enough to still fear the solution they’ve been clamoring for.

I never met anyone from Middletown that was paralyzed by their fear of TMI. I’ll always remember playing CWO hoops there and playing baseball with eyes on the cooling towers.

My mom took my brother to Kittanning during the crisis and my dad stayed at his drafting table and worked. He’s a little weird sometimes but really he seems fine. 🤣
Always thought Goldsboro (West side of the river and closer to the plant) got the short end of the stick coverage wise...
 
Nuclear power is truly the best option for the large scale replacement for fossil fuels. I can understand why people are NIMBY about it, so place it in areas where there are no people, and hardly ever likely to be.

As far as the safety, I’ve had PMP training and the case study for the extreme was real life nuclear plant construction and activation, because by necessity, nothing can come close to the mind boggling tasks needed to define and carry out. TMI and Chernobyl and the plant in Japan stand out because incidents are such a rarity. Meanwhile there seem to be oil refinery explosions and fires very frequently.
 
I was curious about the main whistle blower and then he said he was a naval Nuke and learned a lot of lessons from Admiral Rickover. I too worked in the NNPP and recognized some of what the guy said was standard views of we folks until…. Until he attributed something to Admiral Rickover indicating that he wanted people to “be responsible”. The way the guy portrayed it was that Rickover was a conscientious tree hugger type and that nobody in the program should do any harm to little butterflies and birdies, etc. Let me tell you Rickover’s RESPONSIBILITY mantra was indicating that for any problem that arises there is absolutely ONE person who is responsible for the initiation of that problem and we will critique this issue until we find the bastard. Before my time but my facility sent folks to TMI to do rad readings throughout the area. Some of the guys told me they were walking down a road in standard minimal anti contamination clothing (booties and gloves) and locals came upon them and asked what the hell they were doing. Essentially they were run off and had to be pretty discrete when doing future surveys. In one of my storage rooms I found an old large rad survey map of the areas around the facility and where people lived. To be honest there were numbers that indicated a higher (relative) level of contamination but nothing you would get excited about.
 
Got 1/2 way through first episode and quit. Why? You knew where this was going after repeated video of cooling towers. Look. Those are same cooling towers that coal fired plants use. Film the reactor stations! K. Not as dramatic. Ugh.
Although I spent a fair portion of my professional career in nuclear power (both commercial and nuclear navy at Bettis), I’m neither pro nor con today. On one hand, you had the industry touting that “Electricity generated from nukes would be too cheap to meter”! (Former Chairman Kirby at my Westinghouse) vs. building nukes for utilities in the U.S. where every utility wants their own customized plant. It was utilities and hubris who killed it.
 
Thanks, I’ll check out. I was in nuke biz at Westinghouse. Mainly overseas. Brightest guys I ever worked with anywhere were at Westinghouse Nuclear. Anyway, I don’t recall the regulatory side being a big hurdle, at least on the manufacture side. The NRC really had their stuff together. The single biggest issue for delay and overruns was that each and every utility in the states wanted their own custom plant. As noted, it’s like building a prototype every time. So it’s easy to see that regulations, inspections have to be rewritten every time.
I saw this first hand on the Sizewell B plant in the UK. Same damn thing. “We want this, not that, change this” endless. The answer is to do it like the French or Russians. We got one design, take it or leave it. Standardization. The Hinckley plant now under construction is is suffering same old. Maybe 8 years behind and cost estimated at E30 billion! Insane.
Saw it in 1979 while with a subcontractor to a Westinghouse led team reviewing the design for the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant. The original 20-20 short “news“ story creatively cut and spliced hours of interviews to produce a narrative totally at odds with reality and truth. The “other side” piece demonstrated by compare and contrast video how the true story was replaced by the false narrative that suited the agenda of the 20-20 producers.

The 20-20 piece blamed cost overruns on corporate mismanagement when it was the endless litigation by opponents of nuclear power delaying the power plant construction for years during the high inflation times of the 1970s that actually produced the huge cost overruns.
 
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Saw it in 1979 while with a subcontractor to a Westinghouse led team reviewing the design for the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant. The original 20-20 short “news“ story creatively cut and spliced hours of interviews to produce a narrative totally at odds with reality and truth. The “other side” piece demonstrated by compare and contrast video how the true story was replaced by the false narrative that suited the agenda of the 20-20 producers.

The 20-20 piece blamed cost overruns on corporate mismanagement when it was the endless litigation by opponents of nuclear power delaying the power plant construction for years during the high inflation times of the 1970s that actually produced the huge cost overruns.
Another thing, there is always that 60 Minutes or 48 Hours segment on government spending waste on $250 hammers that the public can buy for $10 at Lowe's. No they can't. Those $250 "hammers" cost that because yes, the company is making a nice margin, but the certifications, testing and calibration of the equipment and processes are very costly. What you are trying to do is assure the product won't fail, and they aren't counterfeit. Those bolts out of a certain grade of Inconel steel is different than common stainless steel. The ovens they were heat treated in are mapped out with thermocouples and charts to assure that they were heat treated correctly. Your hammer didn't have an X-ray or some form of NDE test to assure there are no internal flaws. So these "expose's" that these news networks would occasionally do would really piss me off.
 
I lived within 10 miles during the event. It was scary as a kid. We just stayed inside thinking that would save us. Good thing it wasn’t a Chernobyl event.
 
Germany may be switching gears on nuclear...


Good. Common sense dictates that nuclear needs to be a big part of any plan eventually. Hopefully fusion can make great strides quickly so that there is a safer alternative.
 
Was recently visiting my family in central PA and was at my brother in laws parents house near York Haven where they have a full view of TMI. My kids were very interested in watching the show on Netflix show earlier this year and were blown away seeing it in person. Always cool when you can see history up close, even if the historical event wasn't a great one.
 
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I work for one of the DOEs largest labs. We also have a neighboring facility that does a bit more on the military side of nuclear and radiological materials. I will say, there are lots of stories of guys who put in 30 plus years at both facilities, and have cancer and other issues related to exposure. There are other chemicals and materials in use around facilities that have serious issues, beryllium is a prime example at our lab. I say lab, but we have a high flux isotope reactor for research and plenty of materials on site that have risk with exposure.
Oak Ridge?
 
I think folks growing up and living near steel plants (like alot of us), especially specialty metals which may have alot of Cr compounds and Ni, etc...are more subject to poisons and have higher cancer rates than those near nuclear plants, Chernobyl not withstanding.
People forget the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts were not ratified until the early 70s, and took years of regulatory enforcement to have an affect on industry.
The laws have been revised and of course stricter enforcement has been implemented since then, but growing up near heavy industry in the 60s and 70s would more have way more impact on your health than anything TMI put out.
 
I lived within 10 miles during the event. It was scary as a kid. We just stayed inside thinking that would save us. Good thing it wasn’t a Chernobyl event.
Yes. Chernobyl was a Cold War era Soviet design—had no containment vessel surrounding reactor. Soviets were only concerned with producing nuclear weapons material as an adjunct to generating electricity. People were expendable.

FWIW—Fukushima reactors shut down as designed—no core melt. Loss of backup diesel power resulted in not being able to run water circulation pumps in the spent fuel storage pools. Result was water evaporated and spent fuel rods caught fire and burned. That was the rad release source. Event could have been prevented if backup diesels were located on plant roof vs ground level where they were flooded. Also, a better geologic investigation of historic tsunami events at the plant location area before the plant was built would have told the designers that the tsunami wall needed to have been higher than it was due to evidence of past tsunami waves higher than was believed at the time plant was built. Despite all this, in the end lots of civilian panic but no near term deaths. Could be some premature radiation caused cancers and cancer deaths in a very few people in the relatively distant future, however.
 
People forget the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts were not ratified until the early 70s, and took years of regulatory enforcement to have an affect on industry.
The laws have been revised and of course stricter enforcement has been implemented since then, but growing up near heavy industry in the 60s and 70s would more have way more impact on your health than anything TMI put out.
There is no doubt that far, far, far more people have been harmed by chemical pollutants in the US over the years than by radiation. Radiation is overly scary to people due to the Mushroom Clouds first seen at Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the deaths that resulted than due to the actual risk posed by commercial nuclear power.
St George Utah area and east of the test range. Very high cancer rates back in the day. Everyone on John Wayne's John Ford- directed films got cancer ( or just about everyone). That area is where he shot all those cowboy movies.
Fallout from above ground nuclear bomb tests in Nevada before all bomb testing was moved underground.
 
My brother in law was raised about 2 miles southwest of TMI. His parents house have a view of the cooling towers. I know he had to get special yearly testing throughout his childhood.

Cooling towers always strike me as dark, ominous, and foreboding, even though they are pretty benign.
Nothing but water vapor, aka steam.
 
While here’s a take from an industry insider, if you will. The thing is, nuclear, as presently constituted, certainly in the US, is just not cost effective. Man. The stories I could tell. The big screw up in the then biggest market, US, was that every damn utility wanted their own plant designed to their specifications. In short, it was like building a prototype every time. But give the customer what they want, right? How’d that work out? 12 years plus construction. Ugh.
The better approach was the PWR’ built by the French, Russians. They had one plant built by the manufacturer’s specs, take it or leave it, up and running in 6 years max.
Protests had little to do with it. We just messed up on delivery. The technology is not that complicated. It’s just an instapot or pressure cooker.
Capitilist free market, electrical generation is not a government run entity
 
I worked TMI2 six months after "the accident". I'm actually back now supporting the demolition of Unit 2. Still a mess INSIDE. What didn't get enough publicity is that in spite of haveing a very serious accident, an extremely small amount of radiation was released to the public. The containment systems and structures performed as designed
 
I worked TMI2 six months after "the accident". I'm actually back now supporting the demolition of Unit 2. Still a mess INSIDE. What didn't get enough publicity is that in spite of haveing a very serious accident, an extremely small amount of radiation was released to the public. The containment systems and structures performed as designed

Yes. And that was 40+ years ago. You'd think they should be able to make much safer nuclear reactors these days with all of our further knowledge and technology.
 
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Yes. And that was 40+ years ago. You'd think they should be able to make much safer nuclear reactors these days with all of our further knowledge and technology.
the new small modular reactors are supposed to be a much safer design and much cheaper. The two new behemoths that are being built near Augusta, GA are the same old story, too many years to build and billions over original cost projections
 
I worked TMI2 six months after "the accident". I'm actually back now supporting the demolition of Unit 2. Still a mess INSIDE. What didn't get enough publicity is that in spite of haveing a very serious accident, an extremely small amount of radiation was released to the public. The containment systems and structures performed as designed
Yes, that is what I understand also. No release during the physical partial core melt event itself, I believe. Been told the small amount released was from the intentional depressurization of the containment vessel. Also was told that the plant operators at the time did just about everything conceivable wrong that they could have. You probably know more about specifics than I do but I mentioned what I had heard from various sources during several decades while working initially on nuclear power plant siting studies and then later in nuclear waste disposal.
 
Yes. And that was 40+ years ago. You'd think they should be able to make much safer nuclear reactors these days with all of our further knowledge and technology.
You’d think. But there is an enormous fossil fuel presence out there that will fight nuclear energy to the death.
 
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