Michigan State in Freefall

[PhPanther1]

Well let's see...they have nicer facilities, an on campus stadium, play in a more respected conference, receive a 40m paycheck every year from the B1G, better fan support, and have a much better recent history.

Why do you think they have nicer facilities? I just watched a tour of their facilities, and their facilities look outdated if you ask me.

You really think a coach cares about where the stadium is located?

http://espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/11652187/michigan-state-ad-embarrassed-student-section

Not saying Pitt is better...but it's not that big a gap.

 

[joeydavid]

I'm guessing you have never been to Sparty's Stadium? I have been to double digit college stadiums and that place is by far the worst place to watch a game. It's a dump that needed a do over decades ago.

Well let's see...they have nicer facilities, an on campus stadium, play in a more respected conference, receive a 40m paycheck every year from the B1G, better fan support, and have a much better recent history.

 

[TD_6082]

I'm guessing you have never been to Sparty's Stadium? I have been to double digit college stadiums and that place is by far the worst place to watch a game. It's a dump that needed a do over decades ago.

This goes along with what I've heard. When I lived near Knoxville, one of the local media personalities who was a MSU grad (from Michigan) talked about how shabby the facilities were and how it was impossible to win big there. He actually left Knoxville and returned to East Lansing to cover the Spartans. I was informed by a friend a few days ago that he is now back in Knoxville. Mike Griffith is his name. I think Sparty has reached their ceiling.

 

[thebadby2]

Reapectfully disagree that MSU is a better job than Pitt. Much harder to recruit there. And did I mention Lansing is a shitthole?

First of all if it's so much harder to recruit to MSU why have they consistently had better overall team talent than Pitt for the past 25 years or so?

Swcond

Michigan st cannot hold Pitt's jock strap when it comes to tradition. College hall of famers, national championships, NFL hall of famers.

Oh, is that what makes a college football coaching job attractive?

And here all this time I thought it was salary, institutional and private support for football, facilities and exposure, in that order. All of which MSU has exponentially more of than Pitt.

Not to mention-this program has been down in the dumps,for the better part of 30'years. MSU is 65-16 the last 6 years with 3 Big 10 championships, a CFB playoff appearance, a couple of Top 5 finishes, and some of the most memorable and exciting wins in recent CFB history.

But hey, Pitt has had some amazing individual college and pro players over the past 50 years, and that string of NCs back in the 20s amd 30s sure was awesome. I'm sure stuff that would trump everything else when it comes to the desirability of a coaching job.

Not sure what world some of you guys live in out there, whether you really believe what you post or you're just such stone cold homers you can't see the rest of the world outside of Pitt through your Pitt-colored glasses.

Also, anyone who thinks East Lansing and the MSU campus are a"dumps" has never been there.

 

[thebadby2]

How big is the gap?

Take a look at the results of both teams side by side over the past 5-6 years. That's how big.

Big enough that Dantonio was the second highest paid coach in college football behind only Saban in 2014. That's total compensation, not just salary. At many schools, coaches make a lot more than just their university salary.

 

[PhPanther1]

Take a look at the results of both teams side by side over the past 5-6 years. That's how big.

Big enough that Dantonio was the second highest paid coach in college football behind only Saban in 2014. That's total compensation, not just salary. At many schools, coaches make a lot more than just their university salary.

Well, he's 21st now and their team is taking a big step back. Maybe they are coming back to reality?

 

[thebadby2]

I'm guessing you have never been to Sparty's Stadium? I have been to double digit college stadiums and that place is by far the worst place to watch a game. It's a dump that needed a do over decades ago.

I've been there many times. I've been to dozens of P5 stadiums and campuses across the country. I disagree completely about Spartan Stadium. It's a perfectly decent venue for a college football game and it's a tremendous gameday environment. The tailgating and college football atmosphere is first class.

I read your post the first time around criticizing the concessions, comfort, etc. It made me wonder how many college football stadiums you've been to. It's not the NFL. The universities aren't trying to deliver every creature comfort they can to fans. It's an arena for watching a football game-period.

Most would agree that the Big House is perhaps THE iconic college football venue. However it's also,the most uncomfortable major sports venue in the country, with some of the worst sight lines imaginable for watching a football game. Does that make it a "dump" too?

 

[vegasgreed]

a new sheriff is in that state. Dantonio had a perfect storm with RR and Hoke there.

Well, he's 21st now and their team is taking a big step back. Maybe they are coming back to reality?

 

[thebadby2]

Well, he's 21st now and their team is taking a big step back. Maybe they are coming back to reality?

He's 21sr in his base salary. Top 6-7 when all the other income is factored in.

They have been very strong for 6 straight years. They graduated a ton of starters and are having a $hitty year this year. Based on what Dantonio has done in 11 years at MSU, why would you assume this one down year is their apocalypse?

Last time they were struggling they made some changes, most notably benching their starting QB,and put in a kid named Cook. That worked out OK for them.

 

[PhPanther1]

He's 21sr in his base salary. Top 6-7 when all the other income is factored in.

They have been very strong for 6 straight years. They graduated a ton of starters and are having a $hitty year this year. Based on what Dantonio has done in 11 years at MSU, why would you assume this one down year is their apocalypse?

Last time they were struggling they made some changes, most notably benching their starting QB,and put in a kid named Cook. That worked out OK for them.

Where you seeing that? SI has him 21st.

They were shitty to average for a long time. Dantonio turned things around, but maybe he's growing old and starting to lose the fire which can lead to the team starting to regress.

 

[rockypanther]

First of all if it's so much harder to recruit to MSU why have they consistently had better overall team talent than Pitt for the past 25 years or so?

Swcond

Oh, is that what makes a college football coaching job attractive?

And here all this time I thought it was salary, institutional and private support for football, facilities and exposure, in that order. All of which MSU has exponentially more of than Pitt.

Not to mention-this program has been down in the dumps,for the better part of 30'years. MSU is 65-16 the last 6 years with 3 Big 10 championships, a CFB playoff appearance, a couple of Top 5 finishes, and some of the most memorable and exciting wins in recent CFB history.

But hey, Pitt has had some amazing individual college and pro players over the past 50 years, and that string of NCs back in the 20s amd 30s sure was awesome. I'm sure stuff that would trump everything else when it comes to the desirability of a coaching job.

Not sure what world some of you guys live in out there, whether you really believe what you post or you're just such stone cold homers you can't see the rest of the world outside of Pitt through your Pitt-colored glasses.

Also, anyone who thinks East Lansing and the MSU campus are a"dumps" has never been there.

I live in East Lansing. The game day atmosphere and crowd is 1000% better than Heinz. Plus stadium is right in middle of campus that has over 35,000 students. Also, they have the best AD by far in the country in Mark Hollis.

 

[rockypanther]

Where you seeing that? SI has him 21st.

They were shitty to average for a long time. Dantonio turned things around, but maybe he's growing old and starting to lose the fire which can lead to the team starting to regress.

They just have no QB. And their DB aren't as good as they were last year. Sound familiar.

 

[H2Pforever]

Where you seeing that? SI has him 21st.

They were shitty to average for a long time. Dantonio turned things around, but maybe he's growing old and starting to lose the fire which can lead to the team starting to regress.

This is why sports fans suck. 100% myopic. 6 great years then 7 bad games and time got the coach to go!!!

 

[PhPanther1]

They just have no QB. And their DB aren't as good as they were last year. Sound familiar.

They're not an elite program. Don't try and put them in the tiers with UM, OSU, Bama etc. They may have put up wins like that for a 5 year stretch, but lets not act like MSU is an elite program and is back where they belong and have no shot of dropping back to a 7-5 program.

 

[H2Pittisit]

Nicer facilities? Debatable
On campus stadium? MSU
More respected conf.? Debatable
Paycheck? Gap closing
Fan support? MSU
Recent History? MSU

Nards can change the last two as Dantonio did at MSU WITH NARDUZZI AS HIS ASST HC.

If you ask anyone without a bias, neither are debatable

 

[Panther Holla]

MSU was the focus of a preseason Tv jockumentary series on Big Ten Network. Maybe their celebrity got into their craniums. Of course this is hindsight, but I wonder if Coach D rues the day he allowed his team to be involved.

 

[rojo36]

I was at the game. Mostly defensive problems. NW receivers were quick and wide open all afternoon. Dantonio is going nowhere. He's like Izzo - green for life. Was here with saban and came back. It will get fixed.

I take offense to the comments that Lansing is a dump. It has some ghetto, it has some blue collar, but metro Lansing is a great place to live and raise a family. We have jobs, art festivals, rock festivals, blues festivals, a great auditorium with all the traveling NY shows, an outstanding community college along with MSU, and yes, decriminalized weed. I was very impressed with my college town last night. Great location too, within an 1.2 hours of downtown and Lk Michigan. Winters are milder now too. If you don't like smaller metros then go sit in traffic for 3 hours.

No, it IS a dump !! One and a half hours of what downtown ??? Couldn't wait to leave that area !!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Pitt fans need to understand the following. What happened accomplishment wise in the 20's and 30's is completely irrelevant. Completely.

In college football. In Pro Football. In World History.

 

[SouthSidePanther]

Only in the past couple of years has MSU outrecruited Pitt. Dantonio got more out of less for years. They will inevitably return to the middle of the Big 10 pack, as will their recruiting.

 

[thebadby2]

Where you seeing that? SI has him 21st.

They were shitty to average for a long time. Dantonio turned things around, but maybe he's growing old and starting to lose the fire which can lead to the team starting to regress.

Dude it's real simple-they lost half their team to graduation and the NFL draft. 3 Their top 3 O-linemen are in the NFL now. The winningest QB in school history is in the NFL now. Their 2 best receivers are gone. Their top TE is gone. Shilique Calhoun, Lawrence Thomas and Joel Heath are gone from the D-line. Those are 3 monsters. The D-backfield is depleted with injury and graduation.

Nobody expected them to fall off as bad as they have--they are awful--hell they were a top 10 team preseason, but it's certainly understandable when you look at what they lost. They have a lot of very good young players in the last 3 recruiting classes, and they have a proven excellent coach. The B10 is tougher now with Harbaugh at Michigan, but MSU will be back in the B10 picture soon enough.

As for the total compensation thing, there was an article in 2014 that Dantonio was the second highest paid coach behind Saban at that time when you add up all of the bonuses, deferred compensation, etc. That has changed since as the base salaries keep going up with every new hire at a major program, but my point is he is doing pretty well beyond his 4.3 mill salary. At schools like that where there is a very wealthy, powerful and engaged alumni base, the coach doesn't have to pay for very much--like his massive house.

The guy knows what he;s doing. They will be fine as long as he's there.

 

[Piranha]

Pitt fans need to understand the following. What happened accomplishment wise in the 20's and 30's is completely irrelevant. Completely.

In college football. In Pro Football. In World History.

You don't think Hitler would have changed history if the Nazi's had won WW2? That started in the 30's.

 

[sherepower]

First of all if it's so much harder to recruit to MSU why have they consistently had better overall team talent than Pitt for the past 25 years or so?

Swcond

Oh, is that what makes a college football coaching job attractive?

And here all this time I thought it was salary, institutional and private support for football, facilities and exposure, in that order. All of which MSU has exponentially more of than Pitt.

Not to mention-this program has been down in the dumps,for the better part of 30'years. MSU is 65-16 the last 6 years with 3 Big 10 championships, a CFB playoff appearance, a couple of Top 5 finishes, and some of the most memorable and exciting wins in recent CFB history.

But hey, Pitt has had some amazing individual college and pro players over the past 50 years, and that string of NCs back in the 20s amd 30s sure was awesome. I'm sure stuff that would trump everything else when it comes to the desirability of a coaching job.

Not sure what world some of you guys live in out there, whether you really believe what you post or you're just such stone cold homers you can't see the rest of the world outside of Pitt through your Pitt-colored glasses.

Also, anyone who thinks East Lansing and the MSU campus are a"dumps" has never been there.

Not doubt Michigan st is the better job right now. However, when it comes to college football tradition and what both programs have achieved throughout history. Michigan st cannot hold Pitt's jock strap

 

[sherepower]

Pitt fans need to understand the following. What happened accomplishment wise in the 20's and 30's is completely irrelevant. Completely.

In college football. In Pro Football. In World History.

Well recruits. I dont agree here.

Why when fans bring up Michigan 's history or Notre dames history and other programs. Its ok too. However, when Pitt fans bring up Pitt's accomplishments. We are living in the past.

See its a double standard i have seen over and over again.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Well recruits. I dont agree here.

Why when fans bring up Michigan 's history or Notre dames history and other programs. Its ok too. However, when Pitt fans bring up Pitt's accomplishments. We are living in the past.

See its a double standard i have seen over and over again.

But Michigan or Notre Dame, they aren't necessarily bringing up accomplishments from 1920; ND and Michigan are among the winningest programs in history. I mean, if we are going to do that, Fordham, Carnegie Tech and Hardin Simmons has bragging rights too.

 

[Gary77]

Anyone who thinks Pitt is a better job than Michigan State is clueless.

Judging from your posting history, I am not at all surprised by your statement. Seems you rarely have anything good to say about Pitt. Hmmm!

 

[rockypanther]

They're not an elite program. Don't try and put them in the tiers with UM, OSU, Bama etc. They may have put up wins like that for a 5 year stretch, but lets not act like MSU is an elite program and is back where they belong and have no shot of dropping back to a 7-5 program.

MSU has been a top 10 program the last 5 years. Bama and OSU are the only elite teams. MSU is in the next high tier. Michigan hasn't done crap for a long time. And MSU has owned them.

 

[joeydavid]

Of the bigger venues I have been to Camp Randall, Ann Arbor, The Shoe, ND and East Lansing in the last 4 years. By far, Sparty has the worst stadium it's really wasn't even close.

The campus, tailgating, fans, etc were all awesome. When talking with locals about the stadium- they were almost embarrassed. So yeah, luxuries like the ability to acquire a beverage or relieved yourself should be a requirement in every stadium. The lost food and drink revenue has to be in the millions every year.

From a fans standpoint, Arkon has better amenities.

 

[H2Pittisit]

Well recruits. I dont agree here.

Why when fans bring up Michigan 's history or Notre dames history and other programs. Its ok too. However, when Pitt fans bring up Pitt's accomplishments. We are living in the past.

See its a double standard i have seen over and over again.

Pitt's history is 1976-1982 and pre 1937. The rest has been filled with mediocrity. We have produced great individual players but outside of an era most of our grandfathers don't remember and a 6 year stretch our fathers do remember we haven't had much to talk about. I am hoping we can produce a nice stretch like the 70's again someday

 

[Piranha]

Pitt's history is 1976-1982 and pre 1937. The rest has been filled with mediocrity. We have produced great individual players but outside of an era most of our grandfathers don't remember and a 6 year stretch our fathers do remember we haven't had much to talk about. I am hoping we can produce a nice stretch like the 70's again someday

75-83 - Top 20 each year, national title, and multiple 10+ win seasons is impressive.

Aside from PS, how many teams in the NE or Mid-Atlantic states can match that 8 year stretch in the last 50 years?

 

[H2Pittisit]

75-83 - Top 20 each year, national title, and multiple 10+ win seasons is impressive.

Aside from PS, how many teams in the NE or Mid-Atlantic states can match that 8 year stretch in the last 50 years?

Well 2 points, 1) that was 40 years ago and very few care just like very few cared Minnesota was once a power. 2) The Northeast has how many teams that are worth anything? We are basically talking about Penn State, BC, WVU, Syracuse, UConn, and Rutgers.

 

[Jpripper88]

Exactly. Do you really think recruits are more impressed with championships earned 80-100 years ago than they are with recent results? Some recruits have parents that are too young to remember Tony Dorsett in his NFL prime. That stuff is important to us graybeards, not the kids. Dorsett is farther removed from Pitt now, than Marshall Goldberg was when Tony was a player.

Nail. Head.

 

[Jpripper88]

If my bank account had over 8 million in it with another 3 on the way....the idea of packing up my wife and 3 kids for 500k sure would not sound appealing.

$500k a year, so more like $2-3M.

 

[Jpripper88]

Well recruits. I dont agree here.

Why when fans bring up Michigan 's history or Notre dames history and other programs. Its ok too. However, when Pitt fans bring up Pitt's accomplishments. We are living in the past.

See its a double standard i have seen over and over again.

Because those programs had consistent relevance and success for years. Pitt has essentially been awful for the last 80 years save an 8 year period. Even though ND hasn't been great the past 20 years, they still have been light years ahead of us. Do you realize ND has as many top 10 seasons in the past 70 (since the AP) years as we do winning seasons? Michigan has 2 more. And that excludes their Knute Rockne and Yost/Kipke years.

More than anything, though, kids know Michigan being good and playing Rose Bowls/New Year's Bowls and big games against Ohio State. The same is even true for Notre Dame. Whether we like it or not, Notre Dame has played in 4 BCS bowls in the past 11 years, including a National Championship. Their parents remember Lou Holtz. Many of these kids being recruited now have parents in their 30s and early 40s. They either weren't alive or were too young to remember Tony Dorsett at Pitt. Heck, most probably didn't even see and remember Dan Marino at Pitt. A 40 year old parent of a 17 year old kid, likely never saw Dan Marino play at Pitt. If they did, they were 5 or 6. After that? We sucked.

 

[CJsE]

Well recruits. I dont agree here.

Why when fans bring up Michigan 's history or Notre dames history and other programs. Its ok too. However, when Pitt fans bring up Pitt's accomplishments. We are living in the past.

See its a double standard i have seen over and over again.

When a program that has been consistently successful brings up their past accomplishments, it's tradition. Michigan and Notre Dame are the top 2 teams in all-time winning percentage. Pitt is 42nd overall, 40th if you only count teams with 50+ years of history, and 2.8% below Michigan State if you want to argue against their tradition.

Tradition is something passed down through generations. Pitt has quite a few missing generations of success. Tradition is not when program talks about their 9-10 year stretch of good seasons, surrounded by 30 years of mediocrity on both sides, and 1 National Championship since WWII.

When you have to put an asterisk, or leave out key pieces of information when speaking about the program's tradition you are being dishonest to yourself and the person you are talking to. You might be telling the truth, but you are not being honest.

 

[yourhired]

MSU is having an off year they lost their entire OL first year QB . Defensively they have struggled this year somewhat but for anyone to think Dantanio is in trouble is dumb he ain't going anywhere. He has stated publicly that they have to change the recruiting philosophy less 5 stars more kids that fit the program. In the last ten years the MSU has been better than Pitt by a wide margin but overall they are somewhat similar.

 

[studed]

MSU's problems are on the offensive side of the ball with O'Connor and their offensive coordinator making Matt Cavanaugh look like Mike Leach.

no have even more problems on defense. 54 points to northwestern 35 in second half. 31 points to byu 28 second half. 24 by indiana 24 in second half. nd scored 28 21 in second half. every team they have played this year has scored more in the second half. on the season first half 45 second half 135. a lot of that is coaching

 

[daminals76]

That PSU will beat them?

Whoa... Let's not go crazy now. MSU is bad this year but damn.

 

[CorsosRevenge]

no have even more problems on defense. 54 points to northwestern 35 in second half. 31 points to byu 28 second half. 24 by indiana 24 in second half. nd scored 28 21 in second half. every team they have played this year has scored more in the second half. on the season first half 45 second half 135. a lot of that is coaching

What do lots of second half points usually mean? Come on, guys.

 

[pitt-girl]

Let's keep in mind there are HC salaries and then there are athletic budgets. Not only does MSU pull in more from the B1G than Pitt in the ACC, their donations far eclipse the Panther Club. Shoot, a husband and wife who are big MSU donors recently donated a few million just to endow the Defensive Coordinator position. MSU is also a much larger school. Pitt will never have the financial backing from donations that Sparty gets annually.

 

[Piranha]

Well 2 points, 1) that was 40 years ago and very few care just like very few cared Minnesota was once a power. 2) The Northeast has how many teams that are worth anything? We are basically talking about Penn State, BC, WVU, Syracuse, UConn, and Rutgers.

You seem to struggle with reading comprehension- Mid-Atlantic was included. If you are estimating years, then it would be closer to 30 years.