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Moe-bservations ACCT Quarter Finals - 5 Pitt vs 4 Duke

Chairman Moe

All American
Nov 4, 2003
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Just around the corner from Paradise
-- Out-manned
-- Out-played
-- Out-coached

What a time to lay the biggest "egg" since we were manhandled earlier this year by Michigan and WVU. I'd like to say it was just the match up, but there are certainly as big, and as athletic, and as defensively and offensively talented teams as Duke out there. And many of them will be going to the NCAAT

After today I have no idea what to think about a bid and/or seed to the NCAAT. Maybe Pitt has done enough to get no worse than an 11/12 seed, and not have to play-in @ Dayton. Or maybe, the Committee puts more merit into Pitt's "bad losses" rather than any of their "good wins". And then punishes them with either a play-in game, or totally ignores and we get the NIT instead. I'm thinking we are no worse than a play-in game, but who knows. The ACC will only get so many teams (6 at most; maybe just 5) based on what appears to be the league's perception this year

It will be hard to dismiss losing by daylight to Duke, regardless of what Duke does in their next game(s) in the ACCT
 
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This game reminded me of the earlier Capel Pitt teams and the Stallings teams. Too familiar and getting flashbacks. Scary.

Capel and this team have a LOT of work to do if they even get into the NCAAT. If not, it's NIT and it's anybody's guess how they'll react to that.
 
-- Out-manned
-- Out-played
-- Out-coached

What a time to lay the biggest "egg" since we were manhandled earlier this year by Michigan and WVU. I'd like to say it was just the match up, but there are certainly as big, and as athletic, and as defensively and offensively talented teams as Duke out there. And many of them will be going to the NCAAT

After today I have no idea what to think about a bid and/or seed to the NCAAT. Maybe Pitt has done enough to get no worse than an 11/12 seed, and not have to play-in @ Dayton. Or maybe, the Committee puts more merit into Pitt's "bad losses" rather than any of their "good wins". And then punishes them with either a play-in game, or totally ignores and we get the NIT instead. I'm thinking we are no worse than a play-in game, but who knows. The ACC will only get so many teams (6 at most; maybe just 5) based on what appears to be the league's perception this year

It will be hard to dismiss losing by daylight to Duke, regardless of what Duke does in their next game(s) in the ACCT
Silly. None of our starters would start for Duke.
 
Silly. None of our starters would start for Duke.

I could see Burton starting, possibly. But other than that, they'd be on the bench and playing in reserve roles. Even Hinson would be a reserve. And as much as I like Nike, he doesn't even start for Pitt. Maybe that speaks volumes of what Capel was able to do with this ragtag team of old guys.
 
I could see Burton starting, possibly. But other than that, they'd be on the bench and playing in reserve roles. Even Hinson would be a reserve. And as much as I like Nike, he doesn't even start for Pitt. Maybe that speaks volumes of what Capel was able to do with this ragtag team of old guys.
Yes to Jamarius. He would start for any of the ACC teams. Duke was other-wordly today. Will be interesting to see how they and Miami fare. I predicted a Duke run to the title last week ...
 
Duke beat UNC 62-57 just last week.

Part of the reason they looked like world beaters today is that Pitt just didn't provide any resistance.

Broken record and a habit now for Pitt. We gave up an average of 85 points to the opposition in our last 5 games. That's lazy, ineffective, incompetent defense.
 
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Duke beat UNC 62-57 just last week.

Part of the reason they looked like world beaters today is that Pitt just didn't provide any resistance.
@TD_6082 - I think I read in another post that you were at the game today, yes? On TV it appeared that Pitt looked scared and confused. I really thought they would play more loose and free, but as you say, there was no resistance by the Panthers whatsoever
 
Broken record and a habit now for Pitt. We gave up an average of 85 points to the opposition in our last 5 games. That's lazy, ineffective, incompetent defense.
The team has been kind of an enigma over the past few weeks, for sure. It'll certainly depend on the matchup of their next game's opponent to know if Pitt will have a fair chance to win. The current "m.o." for the Panthers is to have an equal to or greater than inside game presence than their opponent, and space the ball. Duke negated any and all of Pitt's ball screens, and the combination of their height and length made it a no contest
 
We are an offensively oriented team. We lived by the 3 and some dribble drive. Duke, who is elite defensively, took both options away. When we can't score, we get buried, especially when we can't defend even marginally talented teams. That is how you get hammered like we did today. We can win a game in the tournament, but the matchup must be right.
 
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Duke beat UNC 62-57 just last week.

Part of the reason they looked like world beaters today is that Pitt just didn't provide any resistance.
The past few weeks for the most part have looked like lots of games from Capel' first four seasons at Pitt. Giving up 85+ points a game all of a sudden for weeks now? Can't rebound at all now? And I see zero changes game to game. Why isn't he using timeouts earlier to settle the team down? Why did the team look so ill-prepared today? This was a quarterfinal game on National TV against a major bb power. The intensity and energy should have been there from the opening tip.

I think sadly the old Capel from the past 4 seasons is now rearing its ugly head again.
 
The past few weeks for the most part have looked like lots of games from Capel' first four seasons at Pitt. Giving up 85+ points a game all of a sudden for weeks now? Can't rebound at all now? And I see zero changes game to game. Why isn't he using timeouts earlier to settle the team down? Why did the team look so ill-prepared today? This was a quarterfinal game on National TV against a major bb power. The intensity and energy should have been there from the opening tip.

I think sadly the old Capel from the past 4 seasons is now rearing its ugly head again.
My god, in the span of a day at one point this year you proclaimed Pitt could make a FF run then reversed to they wouldn’t make the field.
 
@TD_6082 - I think I read in another post that you were at the game today, yes? On TV it appeared that Pitt looked scared and confused. I really thought they would play more loose and free, but as you say, there was no resistance by the Panthers whatsoever

Duke really does just have more size, skill, and athleticism. They really clamped down on Pitt when the Panthers had possession. I think they were caught off guard with how well they were defended.

For whatever reason, Pitt just didn't seem to give much of an effort tonight defensively.

Watching UVA now. Wahoos just scored a transition basket and I witnessed it in person!
 
Duke is blue blood program that recruits only the best and their team is gelling at the right time .

There’s not one guy on Pitts roster that Duke would recruit. I can’t even think of a player Pitt has had that Duke would’ve been interested in the last 30 yrs . Maybe Steven Adams ?

Pitt would’ve had to play a perfect game to even stay competitive against these guys today . They didn’t .

When Pitt has to play another team with similar talent in the tournament they’ll lose . Against most other tournament teams they have a shooters chance .

Its still been a great season and with the right matchups they could win a couple of games in the tournament.
 
@TD_6082 - I think I read in another post that you were at the game today, yes? On TV it appeared that Pitt looked scared and confused. I really thought they would play more loose and free, but as you say, there was no resistance by the Panthers whatsoever
Scared and confused for sure. The whole game.
 
Duke really does just have more size, skill, and athleticism. They really clamped down on Pitt when the Panthers had possession. I think they were caught off guard with how well they were defended.

For whatever reason, Pitt just didn't seem to give much of an effort tonight defensively.

Watching UVA now. Wahoos just scored a transition basket and I witnessed it in person!
I don't recall a single transition basket by Pitt today although I'm sure they had at least one ... maybe
 
Yes to Jamarius. He would start for any of the ACC teams. Duke was other-wordly today. Will be interesting to see how they and Miami fare. I predicted a Duke run to the title last week ...
Burton is a warrior. But swirling up and down the lane until he finds room to shoot results in 4 guys watching him. Slows the offense down. He looked early yesterday like he wanted to be the whole offense.
 
Burton is a warrior. But swirling up and down the lane until he finds room to shoot results in 4 guys watching him. Slows the offense down. He looked early yesterday like he wanted to be the whole offense.
He did that earlier in the season when he popped for 31. The team's problem yesterday was not getting any spacing against the size of Duke defenders. Aside from Roche they were all 6'7" - 7'1", and excellent players
 
Duke is blue blood program that recruits only the best and their team is gelling at the right time .

There’s not one guy on Pitts roster that Duke would recruit. I can’t even think of a player Pitt has had that Duke would’ve been interested in the last 30 yrs . Maybe Steven Adams ?

Pitt would’ve had to play a perfect game to even stay competitive against these guys today . They didn’t .

When Pitt has to play another team with similar talent in the tournament they’ll lose . Against most other tournament teams they have a shooters chance .

Its still been a great season and with the right matchups they could win a couple of games in the tournament.
Sam Young?? DeJuan Blair?? Brad Wannamaker?? Lamar Patterson??
 
He did that earlier in the season when he popped for 31. The team's problem yesterday was not getting any spacing against the size of Duke defenders. Aside from Roche they were all 6'7" - 7'1", and excellent players
We need to be honest on this. Capel got a B- season from a C level squad. We're faced with a very young team next year, unless the portal helps. We lose 4 of the rotation of 7 with only Blake as a "veteran".
It's been a fun year, with maybe some more surprises, but we need to rebuild, again.
 
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We need to be honest on this. Capel got a B- season from a C level squad. We're faced with a very young team next year, unless the portal helps. We lose 4 of the rotation of 7 with only Blake as a "veteran".
It's been a fun year, with maybe some more surprises, but we need to rebuild, again.
No question. I continued to watch as the scrubs finished the game, so I could kinda see how the twins plus Santos plus Hinton might play as a unit.

We are without an experienced guard in 2023-2024, yes? We lose Burton, Elliott, Cummings, and Sibande. Providing we don't lose any of our recruits and/or Dion, Pitt will have to hit the portal hard for some experience at the 1, 2, and 3. Essentially a repeat of this year's squad with different names.

And hope the guys will gel together as this team did.

B- is a good assessment. I'd have said B+ before our 1-3 finish.
 
Sam Young?? DeJuan Blair?? Brad Wannamaker?? Lamar Patterson??

I‘d add A Gibbs and M Young to your list , but not out of high school . They were all really excellent college players ,but they weren’t being recruited to Duke and choose Pitt .
 
Burton is a warrior. But swirling up and down the lane until he finds room to shoot results in 4 guys watching him. Slows the offense down. He looked early yesterday like he wanted to be the whole offense.

Burton and Sibande are the only two Panthers that played with any balls yesterday. Everyone else played scared. Those two are fighters. The twins held their own from where they are at physically.

Burton is a great leader too. I'm a little worried about what his departure means to team chemistry. Hinson worries me a little.
 
I‘d add A Gibbs and M Young to your list , but not out of high school . They were all really excellent college players ,but they weren’t being recruited to Duke and choose Pitt .
All those guys were good enough, all came straight from H.S., and all were of that quality. Duke doesn't recruit everyone, no school does. All of them except M. Young would have played there.
 
Burton and Sibande are the only two Panthers that played with any balls yesterday. Everyone else played scared. Those two are fighters. The twins held their own from where they are at physically.

Burton is a great leader too. I'm a little worried about what his departure means to team chemistry. Hinson worries me a little.
Annual rebuilding seems to be the way the game will be. We probably had the oldest crew this year. At least we have some talent already committed.
 
All those guys were good enough, all came straight from H.S., and all were of that quality. Duke doesn't recruit everyone, no school does. All of them except M. Young would have played there.
Like I said being able to play there and be an excellent college player is different than being a highly sought after high school recruit .
I disagree about about M Young , he was highly skilled college player playing out of position .
 
Annual rebuilding seems to be the way the game will be. We probably had the oldest crew this year. At least we have some talent already committed.
Yeah. Programs like us (football and basketball) are going to increasingly need to get nearly all starting players annually from the portal. And in less than 3-4 months, with the threat/likelihood of any remaining current players bolting themselves for any reason under the sun. No wonder teams are so shaky in November/December, none of them even know each others names let alone have any playing chemistry.

Coaches certainly get paid well at levels like ours, but I envy this part of their job less than ever. At least with high school recruiting you could try to eyeball kids months or even years before they graduate, work on swaying their families etc…Now, the tournament ends, players of all teams scatter to the wind, randomly enter portals any given time, your own remaining players may do the same, then you have to scramble and compete with all the other have-nots like yourself to fill nearly your entire roster, plus the ever looming threat of the blue bloods looking to poach guys to fill one or two gaps. Sucks.
 
We need to be honest on this. Capel got a B- season from a C level squad. We're faced with a very young team next year, unless the portal helps. We lose 4 of the rotation of 7 with only Blake as a "veteran".
It's been a fun year, with maybe some more surprises, but we need to rebuild, again.
I would say he got an “A” season from a C- level squad. They absolutely overachieved all year. A lot of that was driven by the team’s chemistry and player leadership. But personnel/talent wise this team has been a bottom 1/3 of any P5 league team all year.

Capel deserves due credit for success as he deserves blame for failure. But I’d hate to think of what this season would have looked like without Burton’s willpower and leadership as a floor general. His stats are only his second most important contribution. It really helps when the guy that has those qualities is the the guy that brings the ball up the floor every possession.

That good Athletic article on this team made it sound like Capel was coaching for his life after last season. It worked. Hopefully he takes that same desperation off-season effort and zeal into putting together next year’s roster. We need a lot, but As I’ve watched this team I’ve felt that we need to get longer and more athletic on the perimeter and we will need an experienced lead guard to replace JB. I don’t think we can count on the freshman and Dior if he stays to pick up right where the old guys left off.
 
Just the first two.

Wanny and Lamar would be lucky to get 10 minutes a game as seniors on the Duke teams of that era.
It’s always amazed me that programs like Pitt can occasionally beat programs like Duke who like the Men in Black pick from the best of best !
 
I would say he got an “A” season from a C- level squad. They absolutely overachieved all year. A lot of that was driven by the team’s chemistry and player leadership. But personnel/talent wise this team has been a bottom 1/3 of any P5 league team all year.

Capel deserves due credit for success as he deserves blame for failure. But I’d hate to think of what this season would have looked like without Burton’s willpower and leadership as a floor general. His stats are only his second most important contribution. It really helps when the guy that has those qualities is the the guy that brings the ball up the floor every possession.

That good Athletic article on this team made it sound like Capel was coaching for his life after last season. It worked. Hopefully he takes that same desperation off-season effort and zeal into putting together next year’s roster. We need a lot, but As I’ve watched this team I’ve felt that we need to get longer and more athletic on the perimeter and we will need an experienced lead guard to replace JB. I don’t think we can count on the freshman and Dior if he stays to pick up right where the old guys left off.
Unless your coach just doesn’t give a sh.t I think they all live and die with every season . The pressure of losing your job with another 10 million guaranteed isn’t quite the same as an ordinary fellow getting canned and wondering how he’s going to feed his family.

The fact that this team played like a selfless team probably made this his easiest season here .

The lesson learned is that talent is only part of equation.

My guess is that JC will have better options available to him in the portal based on his team’s performance this yr and the returning players .

Hinson was the best find in the portal and there was much speculation on if he could even play . He shouldn’t have to take chances like that this yr . I’m looking forward for next season !
 
Unless your coach just doesn’t give a sh.t I think they all live and die with every season . The pressure of losing your job with another 10 million guaranteed isn’t quite the same as an ordinary fellow getting canned and wondering how he’s going to feed his family.

The fact that this team played like a selfless team probably made this his easiest season here .

The lesson learned is that talent is only part of equation.

My guess is that JC will have better options available to him in the portal based on his team’s performance this yr and the returning players .

Hinson was the best find in the portal and there was much speculation on if he could even play . He shouldn’t have to take chances like that this yr . I’m looking forward for next season !
I think with a lot of coaching staff effort and a little luck in the portal there’s no reason to think we can’t keep this type of season up.
 
I would say he got an “A” season from a C- level squad. They absolutely overachieved all year. A lot of that was driven by the team’s chemistry and player leadership. But personnel/talent wise this team has been a bottom 1/3 of any P5 league team all year.

Capel deserves due credit for success as he deserves blame for failure. But I’d hate to think of what this season would have looked like without Burton’s willpower and leadership as a floor general. His stats are only his second most important contribution. It really helps when the guy that has those qualities is the the guy that brings the ball up the floor every possession.

That good Athletic article on this team made it sound like Capel was coaching for his life after last season. It worked. Hopefully he takes that same desperation off-season effort and zeal into putting together next year’s roster. We need a lot, but As I’ve watched this team I’ve felt that we need to get longer and more athletic on the perimeter and we will need an experienced lead guard to replace JB. I don’t think we can count on the freshman and Dior if he stays to pick up right where the old guys left off.
They closed with a DECIDED downward trajectory. Playing like Sonny Liston's heavy bag this month. Praying for a tourney slot is not "A" anything. I've enjoyed watching these guys as they give us some thoughts that we may be decent or better under Capel.
 
They closed with a DECIDED downward trajectory. Playing like Sonny Liston's heavy bag this month. Praying for a tourney slot is not "A" anything. I've enjoyed watching these guys as they give us some thoughts that we may be decent or better under Capel.
No question. The ND loss was really, really bad.

My point is simply that this team isn’t that good, they’ve done what they’ve done with good chemistry and strong leadership versus talent and brilliant coaching. This is the time of year where it takes more than one or two of those characteristics to win. From a personnel standpoint we don’t outmatch many teams including most of the ones we beat this year. Capel has done a very good job with what he has. I would argue that he has come pretty close to maxing them out.
 
No question. The ND loss was really, really bad.

My point is simply that this team isn’t that good, they’ve done what they’ve done with good chemistry and strong leadership versus talent and brilliant coaching. This is the time of year where it takes more than one or two of those characteristics to win. From a personnel standpoint we don’t outmatch many teams including most of the ones we beat this year. Capel has done a very good job with what he has. I would argue that he has come pretty close to maxing them out.
Agreed. But the Capel ceiling is pretty low. I'm hoping we get better balance and a deeper crew.
 
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