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My (crazy) ACC expansion idea…

honestly, if im a sooner fan, i would fear this move. going to the sec, you arent going to the playoffs nearly as easy as you did in the big 12. well, not taking into consideration the 12 team expansion of course. but even if you do take that into consideration, a hell of alot easier to get into playoffs in big 12 than sec...

Is the increased revenue going to offset the much more difficult schedule and path to the playoffs? That's what is weird about this. Oklahoma and especially Texas had their cake and were eating it too, in the big 12. they had a great set up, P5 conference, good money, texas has the longhorn network, they called the shots of the big 12, i mean it doesnt get much better than that..
Agreed. If you're making the playoffs already I don't understand why you'd change anything.
Money obviously does not always translate into wins. Texas is the prime example of this.

But money always wins the day for leadership. The sooner you figure this out, the easier it will become. I mean, look at OU moving to the SEC.
The admin can pat themselves on the back while their percentage of top 4 regular season finishes goes down the toilet.
 
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Idea: The ACC should expand to 18 schools (Maryland, Notre Dame full-time, Penn State, West Virginia).

Rationale: The ACC’s exclusive rights holder is ABC/ESPN. Their biggest competition is FOX, which holds the rights to the Big Ten, making them ESPN’s (and the ACC/SEC’s) biggest competition in terms of conferences.

If ESPN wants to fully control the future of college football and collegiate athletics, it should “invest” in the ACC by re-opening the conference’s television/streaming contract and offer enough money to both pass by the Big Ten and what Notre Dame is getting through NBC and the ACC. This could entice Maryland, Notre Dame, and Penn State to join the ACC while dealing the Big Ten (and FOX) a blow. West Virginia could also be added to get to 18 schools since they have a solid following, which means something in the age of subscriptions despite not bringing a major TV market with them.

This is why I’m also thinking the SEC won’t go after any ACC schools, or vice-versa. ESPN would essentially be creating a bidding war against itself since it holds the rights to both. At the same time, this could motivate them to not allow the Big Ten to steal any ACC or SEC schools, since they’d be losing money to their biggest competitor.

Am I crazy? Tell me why this wouldn’t work…
You are right, but in the long term. ESPN doesn't think long term, they want to get what they want right now and in the immediate future. No reason to plan long term when you you can just blow something up at any time to get a better deal.
 
I think the Big 10 would still hold the financial power over the ACC even i nthe above scenario. Sure, the gap would close, but there are still a lot more marketable football brands in the BIG, and support via the size of their alumni bases, etc, that the Big 10 is still a bigger brand.
ND, Clemson, FSU, Miami, VT, and PSU > OSU, UM, MSU, Wisky, Nebraska, and Iowa

Who else moves the needle in the Big 10?
 
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I have a couple thoughts/questions regarding the TX/OK to SEC.

- What is the ACC to do? I can't see that there is really anything to do. The bulk of the ACC are small private schools, and while some are in population centers, the conference will never generate the interest that the SEC and Big10 do. ND joining will help close the gap but it will never overtake or equal those conferences. Will UNC/FSU/UVA consider joining the Big 10? I'm sure they already have but...

- It sure seems that realignment is all about collecting 'trophies'. Not National Championships but trophies between Fox and ESPN. If the Big10 tries to grab those schools, what would ESPN's reaction be? IMO, the cheaper of two things...have the SEC try and grab them or bump up the ACC payout enough to keep them. But that also begs the question...how serious is FOX in upping the ante? I'm sure that they like the Big10 on Fox but hasn't the PAC been an even bigger bloodbath than the ESPN Longhorn Network? Would they pony up the cash for the ACC teams?....

- I can't see either network making this happen unless ND is involved. By involved, I mean, joining as a full member. I also think that 'nothing' happens until about 2030. That lets the results of this realignment/playoff changes shake out (and the income gap widen..).

-I think that the PAC 12 is a dead conference walking. Not that it will be poached but it just doesn't have the interest. The population in Cali is barely interested in the NFL and while their are pockets of interest in the state, it is just going to be tough sledding for anyone to care, especially as the product moves a spate of south/southeast teams. It is going to wither on the vine. (Oregon may be able to become the west's Clemson but will anyone outside of OR care?)
 
ACC Classic
Clemson
Duke
FSU
GT
NC State
UNC
Virginia
Wake

ACC Coastal
Boston College
Louisville
Miami
ND
Pitt
PSU
Syracuse
V Tech
 
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honestly, if im a sooner fan, i would fear this move. going to the sec, you arent going to the playoffs nearly as easy as you did in the big 12. well, not taking into consideration the 12 team expansion of course. but even if you do take that into consideration, a hell of alot easier to get into playoffs in big 12 than sec...

Is the increased revenue going to offset the much more difficult schedule and path to the playoffs? That's what is weird about this. Oklahoma and especially Texas had their cake and were eating it too, in the big 12. they had a great set up, P5 conference, good money, texas has the longhorn network, they called the shots of the big 12, i mean it doesnt get much better than that..
As does Clemson in the ACC. Pretty much every year, their dance ticket is punched before the season starts.
 
More people watch those BIG programs, even if you move over PSU and add ND. The TV ratings show that.
Show these ratings that you speak of. More people watched Clemson vs ND in prime time than any other game. ND is the biggest draw out of all these teams and OSU is #2.
 
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Show these ratings that you speak of. More people watched Clemson vs ND in prime time than any other game. ND is the biggest draw out of all these teams and OSU is #2.
Yeah, Clemson and ND was the most watched. Which is great. But look historically, outside of Clemson, and sometimes FSU, the BIG and SEC have the most eyeballs as an overall conference. They have far larger alumni bases, which equals more fans. There is a reason they have the best bowl games. The largest TV contracts, etc.

ND and PSU would certainly help, and it would bump the ACC up as well, but I'd bet my house it wouldn't close the gap.

It's easy to google the ratings. And the athletic has a very nice summary as well yesterday. Also keep in mind 2020 was a weird year.
 
Yeah, Clemson and ND was the most watched. Which is great. But look historically, outside of Clemson, and sometimes FSU, the BIG and SEC have the most eyeballs as an overall conference. They have far larger alumni bases, which equals more fans. There is a reason they have the best bowl games. The largest TV contracts, etc.

ND and PSU would certainly help, and it would bump the ACC up as well, but I'd bet my house it wouldn't close the gap.

It's easy to google the ratings. And the athletic has a very nice summary as well yesterday. Also keep in mind 2020 was a weird year.
To be fair, the top rated games are usually the same bunch of schools and you only get the big ratings when two of them play. Unless it's Army vs. Navy but that's a different story.
 
Yeah, Clemson and ND was the most watched. Which is great. But look historically, outside of Clemson, and sometimes FSU, the BIG and SEC have the most eyeballs as an overall conference. They have far larger alumni bases, which equals more fans. There is a reason they have the best bowl games. The largest TV contracts, etc.

ND and PSU would certainly help, and it would bump the ACC up as well, but I'd bet my house it wouldn't close the gap.

It's easy to google the ratings. And the athletic has a very nice summary as well yesterday. Also keep in mind 2020 was a weird year.
On a per team basis- Tough to see ratings going up from where they are now. Not even sure geographical spread will off-set the drop in interest.
 
Why would PSU move to the ACC? You think they'd like to do them a favor?
I laid it out in a few posts in this thread. Basically theyd have an easier path to the playoff, similar to what Oklahoma is abandoning. PSU 2-8 vs OSU in 10 years. 6-4 vs Michigan. 5-5 vs Michigan State.
 
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I laid it out in a few posts in this thread. Basically theyd have an easier path to the playoff, similar to what Oklahoma is abandoning. PSU 2-8 vs OSU in 10 years. 6-4 vs Michigan. 5-5 vs Michigan State.
Oklahoma's leaving should make it clear that money trumps an easier path. And if ND gets forced to join a conference, they won't choose the ACC.
 
Oklahoma's leaving should make it clear that money trumps an easier path. And if ND gets forced to join a conference, they won't choose the ACC.
Oklahoma has made the playoffs 4 out of 7 years. We will see if they continue to have that success, and if their fans prefer being in the SEC vs what would be their glory years in the B12. I doubt any fans actually care how much money is put into the program...it's about winning and losing. If the power conferences expand and conference games increase.. we will see how ND does scheduling. They're an unnecessary opponent.
 
Oklahoma has made the playoffs 4 out of 7 years. We will see if they continue to have that success, and if their fans prefer being in the SEC vs what would be their glory years in the B12. I doubt any fans actually care how much money is put into the program...it's about winning and losing. If the power conferences expand and conference games increase.. we will see how ND does scheduling. They're an unnecessary opponent.

As you pointed out, PSU is 2-8, are their fans clamoring to leave the b10? No.

My point with ND is IF they get forced into a conference, it won't be the ACC. But as long as there's a PAC12 and an ACC, they'll have plenty of games available because they still pack the stands for teams who can't do it on their own - regardless of whether they're playing a conference game, look no further than Pitt. It's all about the money.
 
As you pointed out, PSU is 2-8, are their fans clamoring to leave the b10? No.

My point with ND is IF they get forced into a conference, it won't be the ACC. But as long as there's a PAC12 and an ACC, they'll have plenty of games available because they still pack the stands for teams who can't do it on their own - regardless of whether they're playing a conference game, look no further than Pitt. It's all about the money.
Nd is contractually bound to join the acc until 2036.
 
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As you pointed out, PSU is 2-8, are their fans clamoring to leave the b10? No.

My point with ND is IF they get forced into a conference, it won't be the ACC. But as long as there's a PAC12 and an ACC, they'll have plenty of games available because they still pack the stands for teams who can't do it on their own - regardless of whether they're playing a conference game, look no further than Pitt. It's all about the money.
For all of ND's popularity, their TV deal is supposedly worth $15 million per year (plus another $8 million from the ACC) so if it is about money, they could just join any time they like and improve their situation. What is ND's TV deal worth in four years?
 
As you pointed out, PSU is 2-8, are their fans clamoring to leave the b10? No.

My point with ND is IF they get forced into a conference, it won't be the ACC. But as long as there's a PAC12 and an ACC, they'll have plenty of games available because they still pack the stands for teams who can't do it on their own - regardless of whether they're playing a conference game, look no further than Pitt. It's all about the money.
PSU fans are generally arrogant and that arrogance can be used against them in negotiations. Come beat up on the ACC. Nobody is clamoring to leave any conference. And as was pointed out above the Irish are contractually bound to join the ACC until 2036.

 
For all of ND's popularity, their TV deal is supposedly worth $15 million per year (plus another $8 million from the ACC) so if it is about money, they could just join any time they like and improve their situation. What is ND's TV deal worth in four years?

I guess my wording wasn't precise enough, my bad. The all about the money was referring to Notre Dame being able to field a schedule without joining a conference - the other teams want them to fill their stadiums.

Putting that aside, I don't think ND would choose the ACC if they were somehow forced to join a conference. Would make sense that if forced, they would choose the big over the acc, and I believe they would have that choice to make. I do think that if it came to it, they would avoid the sec.
 
I guess my wording wasn't precise enough, my bad. The all about the money was referring to Notre Dame being able to field a schedule without joining a conference - the other teams want them to fill their stadiums.

Putting that aside, I don't think ND would choose the ACC if they were somehow forced to join a conference. Would make sense that if forced, they would choose the big over the acc, and I believe they would have that choice to make. I do think that if it came to it, they would avoid the sec.
Well, like @ThePanthers said, if they're joining anywhere, it's the ACC for the foreseeable future.
 
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PSU fans are generally arrogant and that arrogance can be used against them in negotiations. Come beat up on the ACC. Nobody is clamoring to leave any conference. And as was pointed out above the Irish are contractually bound to join the ACC until 2036.

The guy you responded to is a PSU fan.
 
More people watch those BIG programs, even if you move over PSU and add ND. The TV ratings show that.
No they don’t. Under his scenario the ACC would equal or get more money than the Big 10. ACC’s population dwarfs the big 10’s.

If the ACC would become a super conference. That would generate a lot more interest towards the conference. The bonus would be having the most population. To watch a improved product
 
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Penn State and ND are not worth the 300+ million a year in TV revenue.

The problem with adding teams and renegotiating TV deal is it may open the door for Clemson and FSU to actually jump ship with out much of a penalty.
 
I think the most surprising thing about the UT/OU move is how many people think you can just trigger some "out clause" and walk away from a contract like it's meaningless.

My memory is a little hazy, but wasn't that reason given during the breakup of the Big East? By WVU maybe? I think it was used to avoid or decrease the penalty for leaving.
 
My memory is a little hazy, but wasn't that reason given during the breakup of the Big East? By WVU maybe? I think it was used to avoid or decrease the penalty for leaving.
Yeah but the numbers were pretty small back then. Pitt got out of the Big East for a negotiated $7.5 million and most of that was the "exit fee". UT and OU would be looking at about $80 million a piece before anyone started negotiating.
 
honestly, if im a sooner fan, i would fear this move. going to the sec, you arent going to the playoffs nearly as easy as you did in the big 12. well, not taking into consideration the 12 team expansion of course. but even if you do take that into consideration, a hell of alot easier to get into playoffs in big 12 than sec...

Is the increased revenue going to offset the much more difficult schedule and path to the playoffs? That's what is weird about this. Oklahoma and especially Texas had their cake and were eating it too, in the big 12. they had a great set up, P5 conference, good money, texas has the longhorn network, they called the shots of the big 12, i mean it doesnt get much better than that..
This is the Georgia conundrum. Georgia is arguably the #3 team over the last five years after Alabama and Clemson, yet they have to face that Alabama behemoth in the SEC championship game to make the playoff in most cases (or the year they had to face the eventual champion LSU). Ohio State, Clemson, and Oklahoma do not have that hard a road. If Georgia was playing in the Big 12 they would have been in the playoff regularly the last few years instead of Oklahoma. They likely would have taken Ohio State's spot on several occasions too if they were in the Big 10. It is entirely possible that neither Texas or Oklahoma make the 4 team playoff for a decade or more.
 
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This is the Georgia conundrum. Georgia is arguably the #3 team over the last five years after Alabama and Clemson, yet they have to face that Alabama behemoth in the SEC championship game to make the playoff in most cases (or the year they had to face the eventual champion LSU). Ohio State, Clemson, and Oklahoma do not have that hard a road. If Georgia was playing in the Big 12 they would have been in the playoff regularly the last few years instead of Oklahoma. They likely would have taken Ohio State's spot on several occasions too if they were in the Big 10. It is entirely possible that neither Texas or Oklahoma make the 4 team playoff for a decade or more.
I think this is something that a lot of people don't understand. Texas most likely won't change how they operate. Will stay at home for recruits and still struggle to win most years. OU is who I will be interested to watch. They get by without hardly any SEC kids. They could either elevate with this move or become Nebraska.
 
I think the most surprising thing about the UT/OU move is how many people think you can just trigger some "out clause" and walk away from a contract like it's meaningless.
Well in college football, people are conditioned to this with the way coaches move about. In the NFL (or other pro sports) a coach cannot just up and leave for a better offer, nor can a player, if they have a contract. A contract is a contract. Except in college sports.
 
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Well in college football, people are conditioned to this with the way coaches move about. In the NFL (or other pro sports) a coach cannot just up and leave for a better offer, nor can a player, if they have a contract. A contract is a contract. Except in college sports.
I think a lot of people think that schools and conferences can just do as they please and throw money at the problem. There are lines that schools and conferences will draw because they can.
 
Penn State would be stupid to turn down an opportunity to join the ACC Coastal. Put PSU and WVU in the Coastal send UNC or Miami to the Atlantic. That's enough to renegotiate the TV deal and your pitch to PSU is a far easier path to the playoff. PSU loves an easy schedule.

Wow, we play one hell of a joke schedule this year ourselves!
 
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