ADVERTISEMENT

ND and ACC championship: a good thing

Saboteur

All Conference
Jan 15, 2015
5,902
3,936
113
Many places. but not all
I have a love hate relationship with ND. I admire and envy them at the same time. If magically the roles of Pitt and ND were reversed few on this Board (including me) would be able to contain ourselves.
Conference shennanigans are not over. They are hibernating.

If ND is experiencing success in the ACC, then it will be very difficult for them to be persuaded to join another conference.
Sooner or later ND will have to join a conference IMO.

I want them entrenched.
 
Does Mike Brey "cheat"?

Hmm, it's a wonder that ND has seemingly passed us by. While they've had our number in recent years, Pitt's program was still a notch ahead of theirs. Now he suddenly seems to have the best team he's ever had.

ND is hardly a blue blood either. Brey appears to run a clean progrm. Yet somehow they have they managed to get good recruits.

Maybe someone else can explain what Brey and ND are doing that Jamie and Pitt aren't.
 
Re: Does Mike Brey "cheat"?

In any given year you could pick any team and make the same statement. ND sucked worse than us last year, maybe their sucking last year was sucking worse than our sucking this year. So how does one season mean they have passed us by? Their recruits have not typically been much more highly rated than ours, if they ever have been at all. The only thing they are doing different, this season at least, is winning. In a future season, one might be asking what we are doing to be successful that they are not. ND is the wrong team to ask this question of.

Or perhaps ND has been improving since Brey started wearing a collared shirt. maybe that was the key.
 
Re: Does Mike Brey "cheat"?


Not sure I'd agree that they've passed us by. Remember that they were 15-17 and 6-12 in the ACC last year. We've also beaten them the last two times out.

Their last NCAA tournament win was in 2011, when they lost in the second round to #10 seed Florida State (when we lost in the second round to #8 seed Butler).

If anything, I'd say our programs have been quite even, with their bad year coming last and ours this one.
 
Reply

I'm not impressed with Brey. Considering he has the Notre Dame franchise and name to sell...I think he underachieves in recruiting. He does like shooters...and he always seems to have a bunch of them. But his teams rarely play [or are capable] of playing defense. I'm also not impressed with his bench/game day coaching. I'd say he is an above-average coach that has generally done a little less than I think a great coach could accomplish with all that Notre Dame has to sell and offer. And no, I do not think he cheats. Hail to Pitt!
 
Are you kidding?

The "ND franchise" was never a brand in basketball. Brey is getting good players-scorers-who fit his system and style of play. Very similar to Beilein at Michigan. When they have the right group, they are damned good. When they don't, they're just another power 5 team. ND, like Pitt, could never go to to toe with the big dogs for elite players. They play a system that allows them to beat more talented teams when ND has the right group. Kind of like a spread offense in football-it's an equalizer.

I don't think Brey is HOF material, but he's a good coach.
 
Re: Does Mike Brey "cheat"?

I was being a bit tongue in cheek there. But let's not forget they didn't have Jerian Grant last year. And we haven't seen a ranking as high as #11 in quite some time. Their trend is better than ours right now. Only question is if it's sustainable.
 
Re: Does Mike Brey "cheat"?

"Passed us by" is a tough term to use in a one year window. They made it to the ACC championship this year but I wouldn't say they have "passed us by" just based on that alone.

By the way Pitt did beat them in head to head.
 
Reply

I am not kidding. While ND may not be one of the historical bluebloods of college basketball....I'm suggesting they could. There is virtually NO college kid that has not heard of them. They are located in a very fertile recruiting ground. They are in a premiere conference with elite media coverage. They are connected to an excellent educational institution. They have unlimited money and ability to draw kids from all over the U.S. and world. Yeah, Brey recruits to his system. My contention is that with a better coach....ND could become a national power year in and year out in college basketball. Apparently the Golden Dome is satisifed with what they have and do not aspire to more for basketball. But agree that Brey is a good coach....but not anything special. Hail to Pitt!
 
Re: Does Mike Brey "cheat"?

Head to head doesn't mean much, does it? I'd rather lose to them and finish higher like we used to?

Plus, FWIW, we beat them on our home floor...barely.
 
False narrative. What has Brey really done before this week?

Lots of pub, good results. Final fours?? Elite 8's?? Sweet 16?? Conference champs?? Head-to-head??
 
i would never root for ND and to follow the logic...every team that qualifies this year has technically passed us.
 
Re: Reply

Well you hit on one correct note-it's alawys been all about football at ND. They don't put much effort or many resources into hoops. Have you ever been in ND's gym, the Convo Center? Total dump. They are happy ringer whatever they can out of hoops with minimal investment.

Couple of things-Midwest kids don't want to play in the ACC-they want to play in the B10. I can't think of any Midwest kids on ACC teams right now, other than Cam Wright-who committed before Pitt was even in the ACC. ND has NEVER been a magnet for the best Midwestern players. Historically, the better kids they've brought in have been from big Catholic HS feeder schools around the country. It has never been a school or basketball program that appeals to African-American athletes Finally, ND's much discussed elevated academic standards for athletes limits their recruiting pool significantly. They don't even sniff the prep school and public school superstars. Unless they wanted to cheat, they never will hold much attraction for the elite ballers. And Duke had a monopoly on the best scholar-athlete basketball players. The Grant Hills, Jay Williams, etc.-5 star recruits with strong academics.

One more thing-if Pitt had accomplished what ND has so far this year with the players they have, you guys would all be ready to put Dixon in the HOF. But since it's Brey and ND, you're all downplaying it as lucky or somehow illusory.

Hypocrisy is a bad look, and it has always been rampant on the Pantherlair.
 
Reply

Well perhaps the reason they are not sniffing elite "local talent" is the institution or Brey? Put a guy like Shaka Smart at ND...and I bet you'd see that change pretty quick. Perhaps you are right that football is all that matters...so they are satisfied with what they get out of their limited investment in basketball.

As for the Joyce Center...have you been there since they spent $25 million+ on the Purcell Pavillion? May not be a palace...but certainly a much nicer facility than Cameron Indoor Arena. I do not think facilities hold ND back. By the way, I do not think ND's success is luck this season, nor am I dissing Brey. I have always held the opinion that he underachieves at ND...and that they could do better. Whether ND is a traditional basketball power or not...they have the name and brand to be one should they ever hire the right guy and have the desire to be one. My comments relating to Brey have ZERO to do with Dixon...so not going to go there. Hail to Pitt!
 
Re: Does Mike Brey "cheat"?

Nobody who uses statistics would ever say one data point is a trend.
 
Re: Reply

Conversely badby, if Dixon were the coach of ND last year, certain people on Panther lair would have ripped Dixon mercilessly, regardless of Grant being gone as being inexcusable, whereas now we have Brey apologists saying it is understandable why they were not good last year. it cuts both ways. Frankly, I think the reasonable position is bad things can happen to good programs, and vice versa. It seems largely on here that typically when Pitt achieves something, the achievement is downplayed or was dine in spite of the staff, but all negative things that happen, the staff should be held accountable for whether that issue was within their control or not. I think somewhere in the middle is the sensible position to take.
 
Re: Reply

Notre Dame could easily be placed in the top 20 basketball programs of all time. As of last season, they're the 9th winningest college basketball program of all time by victories and 13th winningest by percentage. Sagarin had them 12th in his all-time college basketball rankings done for ESPN's hoops encyclopedia published a few years ago.

BTW, outside of ND which has 4 players from Indiana on the roster, Duke has 3 players from the midwest (defined for this purpose as B10 states west of PA), Louisville 3, Virginia Tech 3, FSU 2, Wake 2, UNC 1, NC State 1, BC 1, Pitt 1, Syracuse 1.




This post was edited on 3/14 1:11 PM by CrazyPaco
 
I wouldn't say passed us by

Last year we were much better and they didn't make the tourney and this us year, roles were reversed.
 
Reply

Thanks! Willing to be my research guy? I'd say your response easily supports the premise of my original post...which is that Brey underachieves at Notre Dame [not that it bothers me in the least]. Tonight is a tough decision for me....I hate the Irish...but would love to see someone win the ACC other than one of the Carolina mafia. [Also decreased the scalper market for the final tickets...as UNC v. Duke the value would have been through the roof]. So probably won't openly cheer...but should be an interesting game to watch. Hail to Pitt!
 
Re: Reply

Originally posted by thebadby2:
Well you hit on one correct note-it's alawys been all about football at ND. They don't put much effort or many resources into hoops. Have you ever been in ND's gym, the Convo Center? Total dump. They are happy ringer whatever they can out of hoops with minimal investment.

Couple of things-Midwest kids don't want to play in the ACC-they want to play in the B10. I can't think of any Midwest kids on ACC teams right now, other than Cam Wright-who committed before Pitt was even in the ACC. ND has NEVER been a magnet for the best Midwestern players. Historically, the better kids they've brought in have been from big Catholic HS feeder schools around the country. It has never been a school or basketball program that appeals to African-American athletes Finally, ND's much discussed elevated academic standards for athletes limits their recruiting pool significantly. They don't even sniff the prep school and public school superstars. Unless they wanted to cheat, they never will hold much attraction for the elite ballers. And Duke had a monopoly on the best scholar-athlete basketball players. The Grant Hills, Jay Williams, etc.-5 star recruits with strong academics.

One more thing-if Pitt had accomplished what ND has so far this year with the players they have, you guys would all be ready to put Dixon in the HOF. But since it's Brey and ND, you're all downplaying it as lucky or somehow illusory.

Hypocrisy is a bad look, and it has always been rampant on the Pantherlair.
Not sure how Notre Dame beat Duke last night; Notre Dame is good on offense (have excellent shooters) and that is it. I didn't watch last night's game closely but my opinion on them hasn't changed, they have no defense. I would believe they will get knocked out in either the first or second game next weekend, but then again I never thought they would beat Duke either.
 
Re: Reply


They had a good game plan on defense; let Okafor get his and close out on the shooters. Otherwise, they exposed the defensive deficiencies that everyone knows Duke has. The student clearly schooled the teacher last night. A good thing for the competitive balance of the ACC..
 
Re: Reply

It is never a good thing when ND wins, my 2 favorite teams are Pitt and any team who is playing ND
 
Re: Reply


Originally posted by JIMSOULS:

They had a good game plan on defense; let Okafor get his and close out on the shooters. Otherwise, they exposed the defensive deficiencies that everyone knows Duke has. The student clearly schooled the teacher last night. A good thing for the competitive balance of the ACC..
Exactly ..... ND's game plan defensively was to take their chances playing Okafor one on one with no help and concentrate on stopping Duke's 3FG's ... as a result Okafor did score 28 points but Duke was 3-17 from 3FG and ND won by 10.
 
By the way ..... Brey vs Dixon .....

Jamie is 8-6 vs Brey ....... neither coach "owns" the other.
 
Re: By the way ..... Brey vs Dixon .....

At 9 for all time wins I have a hard time saying ND is not a top basketball destination: but they aren't a blue blood either. They are historically a blue collar team...maybe the 1 blue collar team.
But my point is that if ND hoops finds a cozy spot in the ACC it will help get them for football.
As for those who opine that NO ND WIN IS A GOOD THING, I repeat the advice of Don Corleone.
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.
 
Re: By the way ..... Brey vs Dixon .....

Don't know how ND winning is keeping them closer and why would I want to
 
Re: Reply

Harvard, Yale and Princeton are all too 13 in all time football wins. Does that make them blue blood football programs?

Duke and UNC are exempt from my comment about top Midwest kids preferring to play in the B10 versus the ACC. Cream of the crop elite players from everywhere go to those schools because they are 2 of the top 3-5 programs in the country, same with UK. Syracuse was the same way in the old BE.

when you get past the 25 or so 5 star AA kids who go to the Dukes UNCs and UKs, you aren't seeing the 25-100 types from the Midwest going to ACC programs. They go to Michigan, MSU, IU, OSU.

I have lived most of my life in the Midwest, Michigan to be exact. I can assure you that nobody gives a damn about the ACC here. Outside of Duke and Carolina, the ACC is irrelevant to Midwestern college sports fans, which includes HS basketball players and coaches. The ACC gets its random sampling of Midwest kids just like the PAC 12, Big 12, SEC etc. But outside the couple of 5 stars who go to top 5 programs, the vast majority of the rest of the best Midwest kids want to play in the B10.

That's really not an arguable point.
 
Tiger:
When Pitt was left behind in the 1st ACC raid, ND went ahead and signed a long term deal with Pitt.
That was the equivalent of Hertz committing to buy cars from a bankrupt company. It gave Pitt future collateral to run a program.
So your response is purely emotional.
That runs a program for about 15 minutes.
The rest of us have bills to pay and seats to sell.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT