Next year’s IDEAL lineup

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

What’s your ideal lineup and minute distribution and why?
1. XJ 35 minutes - run him into the ground! If he goes down we’re screwed anyways so we may as well ride him like BK in the early good ole days.
5 minutes split between Femi, Horton, unnamed Guard. Don’t think it’s feasible to land a GT at this point to play 5-10 mins a game. The ONLY chance of that is a combo guard who realizes they made a mistake going in the portal and we get them late.

2. Horton - 30 minutes - same concept, IF as advertised, run him into the ground.
10 minutes split between Drumgoole or Femi, depending on game situations and or Drumgoole proving he can actually shoot.

3. Champagnie - 30 minutes - again - run your horses into the ground. Not early, this is come ACC play. Hopefully he continues to play well. Even a duplicate of his freshmen season would be welcome.
10 mins Jeffress, assuming we get him, or Drumgoole/Femi if we don’t.

4. Toney - 35 minutes - again this is a ride your horses thing. Best defender - could be an elite offensive rebounder next year imo.
Give the extra 5 mins to Hugley to play his more “natural position”, if not in condition go big and have AKC play those 5 mins.

5. Hugley - 25 minutes - I still think he’s gonna struggle as a freshmen but I’d rather watch him struggle as a frosh, and as a stretch 5, then watch Terrell Brown. Then he possibly gets 5 extra minutes at the 4, but he may not be conditioned to play 30 mins as a frosh in the ACC. In that case - AKC gets 5 at the 4 and 15 at the 5.

I wouldn’t play Brown or Amadusun unless absolutely forced to, but it is nice to have an extra 10 fouls on the bench at that size.


My thinking on this is going 5 out for the most part, maybe using a 4 around 1 or just a ball screen/roll offense with AKC. Hugley pick and pop or pick and roll option. Gives you a lot more options if he is on the outside constantly giving handoffs and screening. Can look like some of Beilein’s WVU teams who got killed on the boards but always had the whole paint open.

 

[caleco's]

i think femi sees more play than that spelling toney as well as the guards

 

[OhioPanther99]

What’s your ideal lineup and minute distribution and why?
1. XJ 35 minutes - run him into the ground! If he goes down we’re screwed anyways so we may as well ride him like BK in the early good ole days.
5 minutes split between Femi, Horton, unnamed Guard. Don’t think it’s feasible to land a GT at this point to play 5-10 mins a game. The ONLY chance of that is a combo guard who realizes they made a mistake going in the portal and we get them late.

Do you think XJ will be able to stay out of foul trouble to be capable to playing that many minutes?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Do you think XJ will be able to stay out of foul trouble to be capable to playing that many minutes?

I mean, he has to doesn’t he? We don’t have any real options at the 1 otherwise.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Ideal would be bringing Jeffress in!

 

[Tonyt66]

I agree with your distribution for the most part but the only thing I differ a little bit on is running them into the ground. When that happen last yr X played poorly and made bad decisions now I'm hoping that doesn't happen this year I'm hoping his IQ came up a little bit and it look like it did towards the end of the season. Like I said I agree with you but I would like to see them starters mins stay around 32 mins.

What’s your ideal lineup and minute distribution and why?
1. XJ 35 minutes - run him into the ground! If he goes down we’re screwed anyways so we may as well ride him like BK in the early good ole days.
5 minutes split between Femi, Horton, unnamed Guard. Don’t think it’s feasible to land a GT at this point to play 5-10 mins a game. The ONLY chance of that is a combo guard who realizes they made a mistake going in the portal and we get them late.

2. Horton - 30 minutes - same concept, IF as advertised, run him into the ground.
10 minutes split between Drumgoole or Femi, depending on game situations and or Drumgoole proving he can actually shoot.

3. Champagnie - 30 minutes - again - run your horses into the ground. Not early, this is come ACC play. Hopefully he continues to play well. Even a duplicate of his freshmen season would be welcome.
10 mins Jeffress, assuming we get him, or Drumgoole/Femi if we don’t.

4. Toney - 35 minutes - again this is a ride your horses thing. Best defender - could be an elite offensive rebounder next year imo.
Give the extra 5 mins to Hugley to play his more “natural position”, if not in condition go big and have AKC play those 5 mins.

5. Hugley - 25 minutes - I still think he’s gonna struggle as a freshmen but I’d rather watch him struggle as a frosh, and as a stretch 5, then watch Terrell Brown. Then he possibly gets 5 extra minutes at the 4, but he may not be conditioned to play 30 mins as a frosh in the ACC. In that case - AKC gets 5 at the 4 and 15 at the 5.

I wouldn’t play Brown or Amadusun unless absolutely forced to, but it is nice to have an extra 10 fouls on the bench at that size.


My thinking on this is going 5 out for the most part, maybe using a 4 around 1 or just a ball screen/roll offense with AKC. Hugley pick and pop or pick and roll option. Gives you a lot more options if he is on the outside constantly giving handoffs and screening. Can look like some of Beilein’s WVU teams who got killed on the boards but always had the whole paint open.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Guards - Likely going to see something along the lines of X playing 33+, Horton 30ish, Femi nearly all the backup minutes at guard, with the walk on maybe having a few minutes here or there at PG and Drumgoole maybe getting a second or two at 2G.

Forwards - Toney and Champ are likely to play 30 or more minutes each. Drumgoole, Collier and to a lesser extent AKC at PF likely getting the remainder of the time.

Center - Probably going to look a lot like the last two years, nearly a 50/50 split with Brown and Hugs, with AKC and Max getting some time.

Hugs could possibly play some PF over time, but just hard to see how it happens this upcoming season.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Guards - Likely going to see something along the lines of X playing 33+, Horton 30ish, Femi nearly all the backup minutes at guard, with the walk on maybe having a few minutes here or there at PG and Drumgoole maybe getting a second or two at 2G.

Forwards - Toney and Champ are likely to play 20 or more minutes each. Drumgoole, Collier and to a lesser extent AKC at PF likely getting the remainder of the time.

Center - Probably going to look a lot like the last two years, nearly a 50/50 split with Brown and Hugs, with AKC and Max getting some time.

Hugs could possibly play some PF over time, but just hard to see how it happens this upcoming season.

Shit I forgot about Noah and I’ve been his biggest cheerleader.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Ideal would be bringing Jeffress in!

They can’t possibly lose him he can’t visit anywhere

 

[pittchagg]

I see something like this - assuming we land Jeffress

1: Johnson (32), Femi (6), Horton/walk-on (2)
2: Horton (30), Drumgoole (8), Femi (2)
3: Champagnie (30), Jeffress (6), Drumgoole (4)
4: Toney (28), Jeffress (6), Collier (6)
5: Hugley (18), Brown (10), Coulibaly (10), Amadasun (2 - don't think he redshirts, but gets small minutes)

 

[Drew1208]

I see something like this - assuming we land Jeffress

1: Johnson (32), Femi (6), Horton/walk-on (2)
2: Horton (30), Drumgoole (8), Femi (2)
3: Champagnie (30), Jeffress (6), Drumgoole (4)
4: Toney (28), Jeffress (6), Collier (6)
5: Hugley (18), Brown (10), Coulibaly (10), Amadasun (2 - don't think he redshirts, but gets small minutes)

Looks about right. My only question is why everyone has Champ playin the 3, when i think he mostly played the 4 all last year. Except when Toney was out.
This is not important distinction to me. But just a minor quibble as i feel their positions are often interchangeable.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Looks about right. My only question is why everyone has Champ playin the 3, when i think he mostly played the 4 all last year. Except when Toney was out.
This is not important distinction to me. But just a minor quibble as i feel their positions are often interchangeable.

Yeah I think between champ Toney and Collier they can all swing between a big 3 and a smaller 4. Should be a matchup problem all around if they can connect on some 3’s

 

[Jeffburgh]

Looks about right. My only question is why everyone has Champ playin the 3, when i think he mostly played the 4 all last year. Except when Toney was out.
This is not important distinction to me. But just a minor quibble as i feel their positions are often interchangeable.

Yeah ...

 

[pittchagg]

Yeah, I think you can totally swap Toney and Champagnie if it makes more sense that way. I think they're pretty interchangeable when they're both out there on the floor, and I think they're each playing ~30 a night in ACC play no matter where you put them.

I think Jeffress is the same type of player - Collier's more of a forward-type wing, and Drumgoole's more of a guard-type wing.

 

[wbrpanther]

What’s your ideal lineup and minute distribution and why?
1. XJ 35 minutes - run him into the ground! If he goes down we’re screwed anyways so we may as well ride him like BK in the early good ole days.
5 minutes split between Femi, Horton, unnamed Guard. Don’t think it’s feasible to land a GT at this point to play 5-10 mins a game. The ONLY chance of that is a combo guard who realizes they made a mistake going in the portal and we get them late.

2. Horton - 30 minutes - same concept, IF as advertised, run him into the ground.
10 minutes split between Drumgoole or Femi, depending on game situations and or Drumgoole proving he can actually shoot.

3. Champagnie - 30 minutes - again - run your horses into the ground. Not early, this is come ACC play. Hopefully he continues to play well. Even a duplicate of his freshmen season would be welcome.
10 mins Jeffress, assuming we get him, or Drumgoole/Femi if we don’t.

4. Toney - 35 minutes - again this is a ride your horses thing. Best defender - could be an elite offensive rebounder next year imo.
Give the extra 5 mins to Hugley to play his more “natural position”, if not in condition go big and have AKC play those 5 mins.

5. Hugley - 25 minutes - I still think he’s gonna struggle as a freshmen but I’d rather watch him struggle as a frosh, and as a stretch 5, then watch Terrell Brown. Then he possibly gets 5 extra minutes at the 4, but he may not be conditioned to play 30 mins as a frosh in the ACC. In that case - AKC gets 5 at the 4 and 15 at the 5.

I wouldn’t play Brown or Amadusun unless absolutely forced to, but it is nice to have an extra 10 fouls on the bench at that size.


My thinking on this is going 5 out for the most part, maybe using a 4 around 1 or just a ball screen/roll offense with AKC. Hugley pick and pop or pick and roll option. Gives you a lot more options if he is on the outside constantly giving handoffs and screening. Can look like some of Beilein’s WVU teams who got killed on the boards but always had the whole paint open.

I think Brown starts over Hugely but Hugely will get the lion's share of minutes as the year wears on. Starting lineups are nice but who is on the floor at crunch time? That varies according to how the games play out.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Do you think XJ will be able to stay out of foul trouble to be capable to playing that many minutes?

He averaged 33.3 minutes last season--to 35 isn't that much of a stretch.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

What’s your ideal lineup and minute distribution and why?
1. XJ 35 minutes - run him into the ground! If he goes down we’re screwed anyways so we may as well ride him like BK in the early good ole days.
5 minutes split between Femi, Horton, unnamed Guard. Don’t think it’s feasible to land a GT at this point to play 5-10 mins a game. The ONLY chance of that is a combo guard who realizes they made a mistake going in the portal and we get them late.

2. Horton - 30 minutes - same concept, IF as advertised, run him into the ground.
10 minutes split between Drumgoole or Femi, depending on game situations and or Drumgoole proving he can actually shoot.

3. Champagnie - 30 minutes - again - run your horses into the ground. Not early, this is come ACC play. Hopefully he continues to play well. Even a duplicate of his freshmen season would be welcome.
10 mins Jeffress, assuming we get him, or Drumgoole/Femi if we don’t.

4. Toney - 35 minutes - again this is a ride your horses thing. Best defender - could be an elite offensive rebounder next year imo.
Give the extra 5 mins to Hugley to play his more “natural position”, if not in condition go big and have AKC play those 5 mins.

5. Hugley - 25 minutes - I still think he’s gonna struggle as a freshmen but I’d rather watch him struggle as a frosh, and as a stretch 5, then watch Terrell Brown. Then he possibly gets 5 extra minutes at the 4, but he may not be conditioned to play 30 mins as a frosh in the ACC. In that case - AKC gets 5 at the 4 and 15 at the 5.

I wouldn’t play Brown or Amadusun unless absolutely forced to, but it is nice to have an extra 10 fouls on the bench at that size.


My thinking on this is going 5 out for the most part, maybe using a 4 around 1 or just a ball screen/roll offense with AKC. Hugley pick and pop or pick and roll option. Gives you a lot more options if he is on the outside constantly giving handoffs and screening. Can look like some of Beilein’s WVU teams who got killed on the boards but always had the whole paint open.

I suspect Amadasun would bring more in the rebounding department than Brownt. A springier guy.

 

[Drew1208]

I think Brown starts over Hugely but Hugely will get the lion's share of minutes as the year wears on. Starting lineups are nice but who is on the floor at crunch time? That varies according to how the games play out.

Match ups, foul trouble, the inconsistency of play, we've JC will just put in whoever he feels like is right as far as the bigs go. It'll be nice to have some depth and a lil experience there.

 

[joeydavid]

1: Johnson (30), Femi (10)
2: Horton (30), Drumgoole (10)
3: Champagnie (30), Jeffress (10)
4: Toney (30), Collier (10)
5: Hugley (25), Coulibaly (10), Brown (5)

Distinguishing the 2 or 3 and 3 or 4 really don't matter.

If nothing else we know Capel is going to ride his hot hands and line-ups.

I believe 30 minutes is a reduction for X, Champagnie and Toney. Horton might be more like 25 if he struggles a bit to get back into real games.

3 juniors, a seasoned soph and Freshman starting is a welcome sight.

 

[Chescat]

A few thoughts on minutes and the "run em into the ground" idea.
As a few posters responded on here, we know X, Horton, Champ,
and Toney are all going to get 30+ minutes. I'm ok with that, but
like it to be in the 30-35 minute range. We had this conversation
last summer over minutes, and players can and do wear out if
they're overused. We've seen it with both X and Trey. Using X as
an example, IMO he needs a few minutes rest during both halves.
The OP gave reasonable minutes for these guys, and 30+ isn't
running them into the ground. We get that fourth guard and we're
in much better shape.

As for the Bigs.....right now I have no idea. Brown?....does he improve
this being his last year. Does he start over Hugley? Based on what
he's shown us, he'll play according to how he produces. I'd like to
see him get 10 minutes a half IF he's producing. If not sit him and go
with the younger guys. Hugley is hopefully the answer in the paint,
and I expect to see a much improved AOC this coming season. We
now have the bodies with Brown, Hugley, AOC, and Amadason. It
would be an added benefit if we could occasionally get two of them
on the floor at the same time. This might, I said MIGHT be possible.
I'm not suggesting minutes at this point because there's too many
question marks. We do however have four BIGS inside instead of last
year's three.

I didn't mention the wings/forwards, because I feel we're ok
there...especially if Drumgoole improves as he should, and if
Collier is as good as suggested. If Hugley or AOC gets some
minutes at forward it would make this even a better scenario.
Again, that fourth guard would even impact the wings, especially
if it's an eligible 6'8" Murphy

 

[Drew1208]

A few thoughts on minutes and the "run em into the ground" idea.
As a few posters responded on here, we know X, Horton, Champ,
and Toney are all going to get 30+ minutes. I'm ok with that, but
like it to be in the 30-35 minute range. We had this conversation
last summer over minutes, and players can and do wear out if
they're overused. We've seen it with both X and Trey. Using X as
an example, IMO he needs a few minutes rest during both halves.
The OP gave reasonable minutes for these guys, and 30+ isn't
running them into the ground. We get that fourth guard and we're
in much better shape.

As for the Bigs.....right now I have no idea. Brown?....does he improve
this being his last year. Does he start over Hugley? Based on what
he's shown us, he'll play according to how he produces. I'd like to
see him get 10 minutes a half IF he's producing. If not sit him and go
with the younger guys. Hugley is hopefully the answer in the paint,
and I expect to see a much improved AOC this coming season. We
now have the bodies with Brown, Hugley, AOC, and Amadason. It
would be an added benefit if we could occasionally get two of them
on the floor at the same time. This might, I said MIGHT be possible.
I'm not suggesting minutes at this point because there's too many
question marks. We do however have four BIGS inside instead of last
year's three.

I didn't mention the wings/forwards, because I feel we're ok
there...especially if Drumgoole improves as he should, and if
Collier is as good as suggested. If Hugley or AOC gets some
minutes at forward it would make this even a better scenario.
Again, that fourth guard would even impact the wings, especially
if it's an eligible 6'8" Murphy

There's now two reports saying the new Murphy wants to sit a year, to build strength.
Not sure of the accuracy, but he does need to pack on some weight.

 

[joeydavid]

There's now two reports saying the new Murphy wants to sit a year, to build strength.
Not sure of the accuracy, but he does need to pack on some weight.

Sound like Trey might have been the recruit Capel was talking about when he referenced the strength coach not being allowed to participate in the virtual meetings.

 

[pittchagg]

1: Johnson (30), Femi (10)
2: Horton (30), Drumgoole (10)
3: Champagnie (30), Jeffress (10)
4: Toney (30), Collier (10)
5: Hugley (25), Coulibaly (10), Brown (5)

Distinguishing the 2 or 3 and 3 or 4 really don't matter.

If nothing else we know Capel is going to ride his hot hands and line-ups.

I believe 30 minutes is a reduction for X, Champagnie and Toney. Horton might be more like 25 if he struggles a bit to get back into real games.

3 juniors, a seasoned soph and Freshman starting is a welcome sight.

I like that rotation as an aspirational goal. That said, I’m a little bearish on Hugley’s ability to play 25 minutes a game in ACC play. I hope he surprises me, but I think Hugley’s going to end up running into conditioning issues, and I think he’s going to foul a bunch in the early going - and I think those two are related. My prediction is that he shows a bunch of good tools as a freshman, but really starts to put it together as a sophomore.

I like your 1-4, but I really think we might be looking at a “Hugley 15, Brown 15, Coulibaly 10” type of thing. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Amadasun gets 5 of Brown’s 15.

 

[joeydavid]

I like that rotation as an aspirational goal. That said, I’m a little bearish on Hugley’s ability to play 25 minutes a game in ACC play. I hope he surprises me, but I think Hugley’s going to end up running into conditioning issues, and I think he’s going to foul a bunch in the early going - and I think those two are related. My prediction is that he shows a bunch of good tools as a freshman, but really starts to put it together as a sophomore.

I like your 1-4, but I really think we might be looking at a “Hugley 15, Brown 15, Coulibaly 10” type of thing. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Amadasun gets 5 of Brown’s 15.

I agree with that thought- was going to go with 20 minutes for the reasons you listed probably more fouls than conditioning imo.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I see something like this - assuming we land Jeffress

1: Johnson (32), Femi (6), Horton/walk-on (2)
2: Horton (30), Drumgoole (8), Femi (2)
3: Champagnie (30), Jeffress (6), Drumgoole (4)
4: Toney (28), Jeffress (6), Collier (6)
5: Hugley (18), Brown (10), Coulibaly (10), Amadasun (2 - don't think he redshirts, but gets small minutes)

IMHO, difficult for me to imagine Collier getting only about 6 minutes. I believe he will prove to be much better than that—great hops slashing driving ability and a legit 6-8, maybe even 6-9.

 

[panther4life32]

All of you who have Toney playing the 4 are sadly mistaken. Toney would have transferred already had he remained at the 4 spot last year. He came back this past season and will return next season under the conditions he would not be playing the 4. A reliable source disclosed that when he was moved to the 4 this past season early in the season, there was a meeting between HCJC and his parents about his position being changed again and if it did not change back to playing the 3, he would have left during the season. So... let’s change those lineups to: (we need a grad transfer combo guard or PG for depth)
1) Johnson/Femi/Horton
2) Horton/Femi
3) Toney/Drumgoole/Collier
4) Champagnie/Collier/KC
5) Hughley/Brown/KC/Max

 

[Drew1208]

All of you who have Toney playing the 4 are sadly mistaken. Toney would have transferred already had he remained at the 4 spot last year. He came back this past season and will return next season under the conditions he would not be playing the 4. A reliable source disclosed that when he was moved to the 4 this past season early in the season, there was a meeting between HCJC and his parents about his position being changed again and if it did not change back to playing the 3, he would have left during the season. So... let’s change those lineups to:
1) Johnson/Femi/Horton
2) Horton/Femi
3) Toney/Drumgoole/Collier
4) Champagnie/Collier/KC
5) Hughley/Brown/KC/Max

Yeah i talked about that earlier. He plays the 3 mostly. There is a slight difference.

 

[TheChair]

All of you who have Toney playing the 4 are sadly mistaken. Toney would have transferred already had he remained at the 4 spot last year. He came back this past season and will return next season under the conditions he would not be playing the 4.

I do not think that positions matter for Au'Diese. He generally guards the opponent's toughest perimeter player whether that guy plays 2, 3 or 4. And, offensively, he functions within himself no matter where he plays. He really is a pure basketball player.

With him and Champagnie on the floor with each other, there will be times when things are interchangeable because they are similar size guys, with athleticism and have versatility. But, the trend this year was to keep Au'Diese away from the larger players because he was their best perimeter defender and Champagnie is longer/less defensively skilled.

Adding the three frontcourt players that they recruited along with the returns of Brown and Coulibaly to me signal that unless they have to play small in a critical time of the game (ex: foul trouble or running out the game clock or terrible opposing matchups), Au'Diese will not see much of any time as one of the two larger players on the floor.

I am not the biggest believer in "positionless basketball" in college because it is hard to have the personnel to be that way. But, Au'Diese is a positionless player at the college level. His skill set allows him to be deployed in many different ways dependent upon need.

 

[panther4life32]

I do not think that positions matter for Au'Diese. He generally guards the opponent's toughest perimeter player whether that guy plays 2, 3 or 4. And, offensively, he functions within himself no matter where he plays. He really is a pure basketball player.

With him and Champagnie on the floor with each other, there will be times when things are interchangeable because they are similar size guys, with athleticism and have versatility. But, the trend this year was to keep Au'Diese away from the larger players because he was their best perimeter defender and Champagnie is longer/less defensively skilled.

Adding the three frontcourt players that they recruited along with the returns of Brown and Coulibaly to me signal that unless they have to play small in a critical time of the game (ex: foul trouble or running out the game clock or terrible opposing matchups), Au'Diese will not see much of any time as one of the two larger players on the floor.

I am not the biggest believer in "positionless basketball" in college because it is hard to have the personnel to be that way. But, Au'Diese is a positionless player at the college level. His skill set allows him to be deployed in many different ways dependent upon need.

Great points but it does matter. When Toney is at the 3 on offense, he plays on the perimeter (free throw line extended and higher and is used in dribble hand off action, ball screens, flare screens, pin downs, etc but at the 4, he is a deep corner or short corner player or a screener without the same creative options with the ball. During his freshman season, his FG % was low bc he was always in the paint and his shot was blocked or altered due to having no space to operate. Defensively, he exerted so much energy on defense banging with 6-8 or 6-9s, he didn’t have the energy to be as efficient. He won’t have to do that since we are getting bigger guys to play the 4. I agree he is a positionless player but he doesn’t like the 4 position bc he is out of position. If he were 6-8, it would be different. I like positionless basketball when it provides interchangeability with the 1-4 to have similar offensive options. If this is not the goal, it’s not positionless. You have to recruit guys who can adequately dribble, pass, and shoot. They don’t have to be great at any of them but the teams who have players who are really good at all 3, make guarding against it look impossible, especially with all of the movements, on ball and off ball options and counters.

 

[TheChair]

Great points but it does matter. When Toney is at the 3 on offense, he plays on the perimeter (free throw line extended and higher and is used in dribble hand off action, ball screens, flare screens, pin downs, etc but at the 4, he is a deep corner or short corner player without the same creative options with the ball. During his freshman season, his FG % was low bc he was always in the paint and his shot was blocked or altered due to having no space to operate. Defensively, he exerted so much energy on defense banging with 6-8 or 6-9s, he didn’t have the energy to be as efficient. He won’t have to do that since we are getting bigger guys to play the 4.

I think his FG% as a freshman was so low because missed a ton of layups. He had a real issue with simple finishes after about the midway point of that year. I think it was bizarre from a guy that clearly has a lot of skill and did not struggle with physicality.

I can definitely buy that fatigue was a factor for those finishes but Champagnie converted similar plays with ease this year (Champagnie is a longer kid, so it should be a little easier provided the player has athleticism, which he does). Au'Diese has never crossed my mind as a guy that lacks conditioning (though he needed to mature and keep improving like all freshmen). I really think he just developed the yips in the middle of that year; maybe it was from a few big rejections inside.

I agree that they used him in more action this year. I am not sure if it was due to the position or just him improving all-around as a player though.

To me, he is a perimeter guy. And, probably has more point-forward type skills on offense than he has shown because X and Trey were so ball dominant (his HS tape showed that).

He does not need to be thumping with larger kids but honestly there are not many physical 4s running around these days and Au'Diese usually is the most physical kid on the floor for either team from 1 to 4.

I think that there are balances to be had here. But, all things equal, I think Au'Diese is a roll out the basketball and play kid. So, is Champagnie. Pitt had guys in the past that played very out of position at times to help the team. I think as these guys become a winning unit, the semantics will mean less.

 

[Drew1208]

I think his FG% as a freshman was so low because missed a ton of layups. He had a real issue with simple finishes after about the midway point of that year. I think it was bizarre from a guy that clearly has a lot of skill and did not struggle with physicality.

I can definitely buy that fatigue was a factor for those finishes but Champagnie converted similar plays with ease this year (Champagnie is a longer kid, so it should be a little easier provided the player has athleticism, which he does). Au'Diese has never crossed my mind as a guy that lacks conditioning (though he needed to mature and keep improving like all freshmen). I really think he just developed the yips in the middle of that year; maybe it was from a few big rejections inside.

I agree that they used him in more action this year. I am not sure if it was due to the position or just him improving all-around as a player though.

To me, he is a perimeter guy. And, probably has more point-forward type skills on offense than he has shown because X and Trey were so ball dominant (his HS tape showed that).

He does not need to be thumping with larger kids but honestly there are not many physical 4s running around these days and Au'Diese usually is the most physical kid on the floor for either team from 1 to 4.

I think that there are balances to be had here. But, all things equal, I think Au'Diese is a roll out the basketball and play kid. So, is Champagnie. Pitt had guys in the past that played very out of position at times to help the team. I think as these guys become a winning unit, the semantics will mean less.

They ran a nice lil play this year a few times and it mostly always worked.
Champ would get the ball on the wing and pass it down low to Toney under the basket isolated on 1 man for a tough man basket.
It was a nice wrinkle to see added as the year went on.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

All of you who have Toney playing the 4 are sadly mistaken. Toney would have transferred already had he remained at the 4 spot last year. He came back this past season and will return next season under the conditions he would not be playing the 4.

On the presumption you may have inside knowledge, I suspect that this could coincide with the concept that we won't be seeing as much on-court time for lineups that only have a single player taller than 6-6 as we did last season. In that regard-- Here is some board heresy:

IMHO, compared to the last two years, there may be longer stretches of applying full court pressure on defense and more frequent getting out and running on offense (as a function of improved defensive rebounding). Increased roster depth and quality of depth could lend itself to that outcome and prevent talented guys not getting enough PT to remain happy. The result, if it occurs, should be a higher scoring team and, hopefully, more wins.

If, as in the past two years, only 4 guys get over 30 minutes/game and only 2 post players split over 30 minutes/game; then that would leave only 30-40 minutes (including garbage time for walk-ons) to be shared among another 5-7 young guys on ship. That would amount to only about 5 minutes on average for each of them per game--not enough, IMHO.

Applying more defensive pressure and running more on offense with greater use of roster depth could translate (a total guess) into the guys who got over 30 minutes/game last season getting fewer minutes but producing (statistically) as much in their modestly reduced minutes than they did in more PT minutes/game in the past. And, it might reduce/eliminate late ACC season burnout.

Caveats: This is NOT to suggest that--

(1) Minutes for returning "workhorse" players will be reduced dramatically. It won't. Some might ultimately see PT minutes in the upper 20s vs low 30s but with the same productivity as they had when getting the greater PT.

(2) Capel will plan/schedule PT to distribute minutes. He won't. He will still do what he always has done in-game--go with the "hot- hand" lineup that is working. The PT changes (if they occur) will happen "organically" over the season as a function of more and better quality depth. It will also likely "morph" into place gradually as the incoming freshmen adjust to the college game.

Note: All of this is just some ruminating about what could happen that many of us probably don't expect to happen--but, IMHO, could happen.

 

[Tonyt66]

I agree with you about Toney and if he continues to improve his jumper and more importantly improve his handle man what a weapon he is going to be something like a Swiss army knife on the court. LOL

I do not think that positions matter for Au'Diese. He generally guards the opponent's toughest perimeter player whether that guy plays 2, 3 or 4. And, offensively, he functions within himself no matter where he plays. He really is a pure basketball player.

With him and Champagnie on the floor with each other, there will be times when things are interchangeable because they are similar size guys, with athleticism and have versatility. But, the trend this year was to keep Au'Diese away from the larger players because he was their best perimeter defender and Champagnie is longer/less defensively skilled.

Adding the three frontcourt players that they recruited along with the returns of Brown and Coulibaly to me signal that unless they have to play small in a critical time of the game (ex: foul trouble or running out the game clock or terrible opposing matchups), Au'Diese will not see much of any time as one of the two larger players on the floor.

I am not the biggest believer in "positionless basketball" in college because it is hard to have the personnel to be that way. But, Au'Diese is a positionless player at the college level. His skill set allows him to be deployed in many different ways dependent upon need.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

All of you who have Toney playing the 4 are sadly mistaken. Toney would have transferred already had he remained at the 4 spot last year. He came back this past season and will return next season under the conditions he would not be playing the 4. A reliable source disclosed that when he was moved to the 4 this past season early in the season, there was a meeting between HCJC and his parents about his position being changed again and if it did not change back to playing the 3, he would have left during the season. So... let’s change those lineups to: (we need a grad transfer combo guard or PG for depth)
1) Johnson/Femi/Horton
2) Horton/Femi
3) Toney/Drumgoole/Collier
4) Champagnie/Collier/KC
5) Hughley/Brown/KC/Max

If this is true, his parents are very dumb.
1) the NBA is going smaller and he would be an ideal 4 in today’s NBA in a run and gun system if he could learn how to hit 3’s consistently with his athleticism and defensive prowess
2) he ain’t going to the NBA
3) whatever happened to parents being happy about a free education

I think we can all agree his ceiling is euro pro and a very good career overseas. It’s a shame with increased knowledge parents have found themselves knowing more than the coaches and become selfish for only their kids. Him performing at a high level at the “4” and the team winning would get him further than they think he can get as a “3” and another last place finish.

 

[Chescat]

All of you who have Toney playing the 4 are sadly mistaken.

Well thank you much for straightening us know nothing's out on this.
First of all other than the pg (1), the off guard (2) and the Center (5),
Capel's offense doesn't allow for traditional position alignment.
Both forwards have the opportunity to play inside and outside. Neither
one off them is a traditional 3 or 4. They both are able to put the ball
on the floor away from the basket. They both get corner three shot
attempts and threes from out on the side. A traditional 4 is usually
camped inside and down low, and isn't free to throw up threes. A
traditional 4 can extend a little out and along the baseline. Toney
sometimes extends all the way to the corner, and outside along the
sides. Same with Champagnie who is sometimes down low and is
often outside on a wing.
On the D end, as another posted already mentioned, he gets the
toughest assignment who just might be a 2, 3,or 4. That happens
because Toney is obviously our best defensive player.

What we might look for this coming season is the opportunity to play
two of our Bigs at the same time. Capel tried it once or twice last year,
but quickly ditched the idea. We have four Bigs now, so I see it as a
possibility. If we get Hugley, and Coulibaly playing effectively inside,
Brown might be a possibility as a traditional 4. He does have a good
mid range jumper. Not sayin it's gonna happen, but a possibility.

 

[Chescat]

If this is true, his parents are very dumb.
1) the NBA is going smaller and he would be an ideal 4 in today’s NBA in a run and gun system if he could learn how to hit 3’s consistently with his athleticism and defensive prowess
2) he ain’t going to the NBA
3) whatever happened to parents being happy about a free education

I think we can all agree his ceiling is euro pro and a very good career overseas. It’s a shame with increased knowledge parents have found themselves knowing more than the coaches and become selfish for only their kids. Him performing at a high level at the “4” and the team winning would get him further than they think he can get as a “3” and another last place finish.

You made some good points about his possible future and pro ball. As
far as the NBA is concerned, I don't see it either at this point. However
his offensive game improved a lot last year. The Duke game where he
went off for 27, shows major potential.. Was it a one time event?.... OR
is it a sign of what's to come. If he cosistently becomes that player,
he'd be all ACC and nationally recognized.
As far as parents, well in today's scenario they're more typical than
not. I have no inside info as what went on with Capel and parents,
but I see a steep learning curve for Toney. I hope gets there.

 

[4upmc]

I do not think that positions matter for Au'Diese. He generally guards the opponent's toughest perimeter player whether that guy plays 2, 3 or 4. And, offensively, he functions within himself no matter where he plays. He really is a pure basketball player.

With him and Champagnie on the floor with each other, there will be times when things are interchangeable because they are similar size guys, with athleticism and have versatility. But, the trend this year was to keep Au'Diese away from the larger players because he was their best perimeter defender and Champagnie is longer/less defensively skilled.

Adding the three frontcourt players that they recruited along with the returns of Brown and Coulibaly to me signal that unless they have to play small in a critical time of the game (ex: foul trouble or running out the game clock or terrible opposing matchups), Au'Diese will not see much of any time as one of the two larger players on the floor.

I am not the biggest believer in "positionless basketball" in college because it is hard to have the personnel to be that way. But, Au'Diese is a positionless player at the college level. His skill set allows him to be deployed in many different ways dependent upon need.

Yes, Toney is a true BB player. Put him out there call him whatever position you want (wing, forward or whatever) and he will give you a heck of a lot. He’s going to take the toughest assignments on D. His O will continue to get better. He’s by far the toughest player on the team and a true 2 way player. I agree that Toney and Justin compliment each other well.

 

[Chescat]

I couldn't link it sorry, but go to youtube and type in AudieseToney
Drops 27 on Duke. After watching it ask youself....is that a typical 4?
He does everything, hits 3's from the side, the corner, drives for a
layup from the top of the circle, he's out ahead on the fast break,
dunks, follows up from the wing. Watch it and tell us what you think.

BTW if his parents watch this, they'd think he were NBA material.

 

[4upmc]

As stated in the first post a 5 out could work well for this group. Hugely doesn’t want to be glued to the paint and he has nice touch from the outside. His best asset may be his passing. This would free up space for X and others to drive. The basic concepts of the O are easy to teach. Once you have the basics down you can run some nice quick hitters as well.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

As stated in the first post a 5 out could work well for this group. Hugely doesn’t want to be glued to the paint and he has nice touch from the outside. His best asset may be his passing. This would free up space for X and others to drive. The basic concepts of the O are easy to teach. Once you have the basics down you can run some nice quick hitters as well.

I’d run a Houston style offense. Not as many 3’s, but pass to Hugley, hand/off, fake hand off, dribble at backdoor, hand off, screen, roll etc...