Ok, I officially think this team is much better than Stallings last team..... and arrow is up...
- Thread starter mo cheeks
- Start date
Worst ACC recruiting class for 2021 and in line for the worst class in 2022. Hard to build a program doing that. Nice to see the team winning some games, but this doesn't change anything. I think he wants his buyout.
there's notable progress with the current team and it's fairly evident that if Horton and Nike were healthy and playing this year, we'd have at least 9-10 wins. This team finishes close to 20 wins if we have our full roster.
not only have those guys been out, but we added a bunch of new kids to the mix who have never played together. When they aren't ultra talented players, meshing and winning right away doesn't always happen.
I've been saying it for a few weeks now and I still believe it: Capel will get another year. Say what you want about Capel, but he's winning games with a 5'10" walk-on PG playing prominent minutes.
not only have those guys been out, but we added a bunch of new kids to the mix who have never played together. When they aren't ultra talented players, meshing and winning right away doesn't always happen.
I've been saying it for a few weeks now and I still believe it: Capel will get another year. Say what you want about Capel, but he's winning games with a 5'10" walk-on PG playing prominent minutes.
Why not focus on the positive? If you are a fan of a program and follow it closely, I think there is always satisfaction in watching your team come together, fight through adversity and continue to improve. It's good to see guys who don't quit and work hard to get better enjoy some success.
I don't think anybody is under the assumption that there won't be a coaching change at the end of the season.
I'm fully under the assumption Capel will be back next year. I think it'd be dumb to fire him at this point.
Without a doubt this team has continued to fight and improve. And the staff & players should absolutely be commended on that. However, I don't think it's about that at this point concerning Capel's job status. I think it's about his entire body of work and confidence in his ability to lead a program.
A coach in his 4th year in a league this bad should not brought back because he "overachieves" by scrapping out 7 or 8 conference wins.
he showed promise the first three years.
A year ago we just beat Duke and had the best player in the ACC. Season was derailed with off court stuff. Is Capel responsible? You could say some of the off court stuff is on him.
Even coming into this year I was expecting a pretty decent team. Sniffing 20 wins with a healthy team in this conference wasn't out of the question. It's clear that with Nike and Horton this team would've been as close to the tournament as Capel has been since coming here... and he had two years in a row where he was on "next four in" lists.
Look at the kids who returned from last year that are playing this year: Femi, Will, Noah, John.
Femi - Hardly played big min until X was gone
Will - Hardly played
Noah - Hardly played
John -Played in 10 games
so he comes into this season with 4 guys from last year that are eligible to play this year. 3 of which were on the roster the whole year, but they didn't play very much so developing any chemistry was nearly impossible.
Adding Nike and Horton to this mix would've certainly added some stability. Horton played solid minutes all year last year and Nike came on second half of the year.
Not only are your returning guys super young and totally unfamiliar with playing with each other, you add a mixed bag of players to this group. Again, zero continuity.
Getting this team to mesh right away even with Horton and Nike available was going to be a challenge.. but without them? nearly impossible.
You're starting to see this team get used to each other. They are figuring each other out and it's showing. I'm not saying this team is very good.. they are very under talented without Nike and Horton, but they actually look like a team.. and not just a group of guys on the court together.
It's super frustrating to watch sometimes, but firing Capel will only prolong this process. Not to toot my own horn, but I haven't been particularly wrong when guessing/sharing information. If Capel stays, so will basically everyone worth a roster spot. If he's fired, you're starting from scratch again. Looking at a year worse than this in 2022.
We have 0 commits. Nobody goes to games. He hasn’t finished with a winning ACC record once. We lost to Monmouth, Citadel, UMBC…
The ONLY reason he shouldn’t be back is if we truly couldn’t afford it. But saying it would be “dumb” to fire him is insane. do you enjoy torture?
You have to be Capel’s agent. Who cares if none of the players come back??? They all stink besides Hugley and maybe Femi.
Can’t wait for next year with all our guys back and a few more mid major transfers… 13th place in the ACC here we come! But it will be progress!
Totally agree, recruits. This team with its current makeup MUST play great defense, rebound and limit turnovers if they have any chance at all of winning even 3 or 4 ACC games. And they must do all of those 3 phases in one game to win. They have a very slim margin of error since they can't rely on outscoring anyone on offense.
With the outlook for the return of current players and a total lack of recruiting by Capel, the move to oust him sooner rather than later has to be made. It was fun to watch the grit this group of players has in the wins they get this year. But the big picture is that Capel isn't getting the job done, and he's getting paid too much to not do his job.
If Capel stays, anyone worth a roster spot will transfer. These kids know he's a dead man walking and they don't want to stick around or play for him.
This year won't be pretty at all. With the inevitable transfers, next year could be worse. He has 0 recruits and isn't going to get any quality recruits from all indications. That's 4 years of Capel ineptitude and counting. And you want to give the guy another year????? Why do you think he has no recruits and his prospects of getting any are not good?
it's extremely dumb to fire him based on the first half of this year.
Agree or disagree - Pitt with Nike and Horton has at most 2-3 losses right now? They're 7pts combined away from adding 4 wins to their total with the players you think stink.
Agree or disagree - Pitt could get close to 20 wins with Nike and Horton this year?
if you disagree with both, so be it. You can easily, and I mean easily, make the argument this team could get close to 20 wins with these guys healthy/available.
You have your opinion and that's not changing. That's fine.
Firing Capel for losing to lower level schools with his two best players out and not having any commits in a class that's not even close to being finished would be totally idiotic.
Are people actually starting to believe we can win 7-8 conference wins, even in a bad ACC?
how do you figure? They seem like they're doing whatever they can to win games right now, but they don't want to play for him? What's stopping them from leaving right now? If they were that unhappy, why wouldn't they leave now? If they knew he was fired, why would they stay and keep burning their eligibility?
Peoples attitudes seem to fluctuate wildly with the results of a game or two.
I am sure we will see that happen a few more times this season.
The thing you’re missing here though is that I was pretty much leader of the Capel train for the last 3 years. It’s not like I have something out for him.
But your posts… they’re nuts. It’s like you are truly his agent. I mean, I can’t think of another reputable poster on this board who would agree with what you are saying…
I mean talking about this team and their improvement is fine but when you start with the Capel stuff and that it’d be “idiotic” to fire him??? What???
do you pay attention to recruiting??? We have zero traction with ANYONE. Anyone. Because everyone knows it’s over.
Horton and Nike are ok role players but… once again, with them we were projected like 14th in the conference.
Nike’s little end of the season tear was a little bit of a fluke and he wasn’t going to be able to do that night in and night out if he was the guy.
What happens the rest of this year is pretty much irrelevant unless he gets us to the NIT or something. We have nothing coming. And they can’t land anything at this point. Our “core” is not good enough. It’s 1 and half players. It’s over.
They burned their eligibility by playing at all. With a 1 time free transfer, these guys are all playing hard because you’re constantly auditioning for the next move. Why would they leave now? Guys like Femi get to go out there with basically no pressure and put on tape them scoring 30 points.
I get what you're saying. I just don't see anything you listed as a very compelling reason to keep him.
Actually getting a team to play with purpose and mesh to squeak out a win against STJ, who was also playing without a key starter, and defeating Jacksonville by 9 at home isn't really a measuring stick you want to be using in year 4.
If you bring him back for year 5, do you think next year will be significantly better? What do you see 2 or 3 years down the road under Capel?
As for the off court stuff, I get that a head coach can't be responsible for the actions and bad decisions of a college age kid. However, when off court distractions become a trend and happen as frequently as they have, I think it reflects poorly on the program and the program's leadership.
And tbh, I don't see that starting from scratch again is going to be any kind of deterrent. I'm big on track records and large sample sizes. The off court stuff, problems managing a team/egos and February swoons have become his MO, even going back to his days at OU. Its mostly for that reason I think they will make a change at the end of the year pretty much regardless of how this season plays out.
recruiting only matters when the players are signed. He won't go into next year without any new players. I'll grade the recruiting when the class is signed.
Same with this season. Same with potential players leaving. I'll wait to see how this year shakes out before drawing any conclusions. I think it's silly to want someone fired with reasons all being a perceived reality.
You want him fired because of possible transfers after the year. His unfinished recruiting class. His first 12 games of the season without two of his better players. The perception on the recruiting trail (here's a hint, nobody knows what's being said. Those who say they do are lying).
How were you leading the Capel train for 3 years and then suddenly want him gone based all on perception?
If Horton and Nike are on this team he would've shown improvement from year 1 - year 2 - year 3 - year 4. His win totals would've gone up every year. He would've had a middle of the pack ACC team.
ST was missing Julian. We've been missing Horton and Nike. They aren't the level of Julian, but they mean that much to this Pitt team. Not only are those two kids two of our better players, they are exactly what we desperately need.
I want him gone because his team has been a dumpster fire down the stretch for 2 straight years. He’s 15-40 in the ACC. He consistently has shown time and time again how confused he’s been by who he could land here, as he thought he had Reid, Timberlake, RJ Davis, Quinerly, and a few others. And he landed none of them.
This year, we are an absolute embarrassment. I mean, even with Nike and Horton we’d be bad.
And you’re basically just turning your head at anything you don’t like (recruiting and transfers) which is fine but it makes this convo pointless.
As @BballinsiderfromPitt has correctly said many times, being able to manage your own players and bring in talent is 90% of the game in CBB at this point. Capel can’t do either.
I was still defending Capel a few months ago because he had Mintz, a true Top 50 player, to add to this team. And when you have that, others want to play with kids like that. But this staff couldn’t even land anyone next to him!! Which just shows how inept they are. Because if we had a Top 50 player alongside another Top 100 player in the wings, this thing would be so much different now.
But it’s not. It’s all over. Thankfully HL isn’t as foolish as you
landing a top 50 and top 100 in the same class would be our best class ever. I can understand your frustration with recruiting if that's your expectation.
20 wins because of two below average deeply flawed guards!? Holy shit, I need to change dealers. My stuff isn’t strong enough.
Also, I’m surprised Femi didn’t put his name in the portal after yesterday. Not gonna get any better than that. I guess the second the buzzer sounds on Tuesday, March 8th will be soon enough.
I will say this, there is a small chance they keep Femi at this point. He really likes Pittsburgh. As long as there is a coaching change, they’ll have a chance!
the beauty in all of this is that we'll get to see it play out and regardless of what happens, I trust that HL will make the best decision for this program.. but trust me, I'm keeping the receipts..
Well said.
I get pulling for this team, it is playing hard and it does seem to have chemistry. I said we could get better if Burton shook of the dust, Horton came back and we played Jeffress and Collier less.
All of that is well and good, but is delusion to think if everything had gone right this team could have won 20 games. The talent is just not there. Everyone is extremely inconsistent and there is no margin for error. Talk about this team with everyone coming back being good is insane.
it also seems that people are trying to mitigate how bad this team is or elevate them somehow by kicking the dead horse that was the 2017-2018 team. (See thread title)
That team will live in Pitt infamy, but let’s have a little context versus this team When kicking them:
That team in my mind, played a harder schedule, OC and league. While this team has suffered personnel losses in Nike and Horton, I think the loss of Luther for all league games was a bigger loss. He was the only semi competent big. It would be the equivalent of losing Hugley for this team.
Finally, regarding the overall rosters. 2017-2018 was the second year of the regime and first year of the rebuild, This is the fourth year of this regime and third year of the (first) rebuild.
in conclusion, this team needs evaluated by itself, not comparison. That evaluation needs based on its entire body of work, not a five game snap shot. The teams needs evaluated on its talent and future secured talent.
Capel needs evaluated on his entire body of work.
I have enjoyed watching the last five games. Horton may be coming back soon.
I am for letting the rest of the season play out, but would be lying if I said I expected the rest of the season to look like the last 5 games. Talent and consistency seems very likely to bite us more often than not.
Last edited:
I’m calling Mintz the Top 50 player. So we had that one. Even if he might be in the 60s on Rivals he is a Top 50 player. So we had that one. If you can’t put another Top 100-125 kid alongside a kid like Mintz who plays at Oak Hill and on a premier AAU team, you suck at recruiting.
i also don’t know this as fact, but if we had a strong class around him I think Mintz would be coming here despite the struggles.
We know Capel doesn't suck at recruiting.. why are we confident we can replace him with someone better? He's by all accounts a top 20 recruiter in the sport. That's not even debatable. Are we getting someone better than him on the trail?
I don't think his recruiting gets enough credit. We're lucky he's able to put together a top 30 class with how we've performed the last 5-6 years.
A coach that isn't at this level doesn't sniff the classes he's put together.
A coach that isn't at this level doesn't sniff the classes he's put together.
Haha ok at this point I’m getting back to the work I have today because you actually may be his agent. Have a good day sir. We’ll see who’s right in March
nope.. just a 28 year old guy that loves his Panthers.
as long as "right" is the right decision, I'm ok with it. I think we'll know what the right decision is after the season is over. A lot is going to happen between now and then.
Me too. Enjoyed the civil discussion. Although you are wrong 😁. H2P
Some of that may be the where, when, and how that reputation was earned. I also think Orlando Antigua would be considered a top 20 recruiter in the sport. Not sure you want him leading your program though.
Four year in, and the recruiting rep isn't paying dividends. Perhaps its a bad fit. Whatever worked at Duke either isn't working here, or it isn't allowed to work here.
saying it hasn't paid dividends isn't necessarily true. He made substantial progress recruiting wise in comparison to KS.
KS off his first year filled our roster with mostly unplayable players.
Capel filled this year's class with transfers and they are 10x better than what we saw KS bring in.
Elevation by comparison instead of evaluation on accomplishment.
There is a benefit to following a dumb brother, rather than an extremely smart one.
Last edited:
Saying this class is better than one KS class, in which both coaches were basically just relegated to bringing in warm bodies isn't exactly a strong case to bring Capel back for a fifth year. And it's hardly a testament to his recruiting prowess.
I'm not disputing Capel's rep as a recruiter. That's what got him the job. But I'm 100% certain that this type of class was not what Pitt envisioned 4 years down the line when they handed him the keys to the program.
They have scholarships. It's a free ride for at least a year. No reason to leave now.
This group seems to be very self-motivated. I've been in jobs in my career where my boss was a complete jackass but I was motivated to do my best to augment my resume and go somewhere else ASAP. That's what I suspect some of these players are doing. Now with the nonsense with the transfer portal, more and more are doing this.
I'm all about results. Capel has yet to deliver results, now in his 4th year. There are no excuses.
I’d argue that with Cal backing him and a UK polo on, there’s no one better in the sport than Antigua. His relationships got him in many doors at Pitt, we could close and then he learned a lot from Cal to capitalize at Illinois. I don’t think there’s a school in the country that thinks with K gone they can recruit against Cal/Antigua if they walk in the building.
