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OT: 2021 Buccos

Actually Elijah Green an OF and the son of former Steelers TE Eric Green is right now, the consensus top guy.

Supposedly a primo bat.

I've heard him discussed as well. But not in a manner where he was a can't-miss, sure-to-go-first-overall player. Regardless, it seems like a top five pick is well on its way, so I'm sure the Pirates will have plenty of choices.
 
I was walking through the mall yesterday and a pretty girl smiled at me. I think me and her should get engaged sometime in 2022, and get married in the fall of 2023. We will have 2 children, one boy and one girl. Hopefully they will both go to Pitt.

That is as logical as the Pirate fans on here so EXCITED about the future. There is no reason to even be remotely excited until at least 2023. To even be a little bit excited makes as much sense as my paragraph above. Leiter/Kumar if they remain healthy and are as good as we hope will be pitching 6 or 7 innings every 5th game, starting in June of 2023. Elijah Green may not even be the consensus number one pick next year, we may not get the pick, and then he may not even pan out. Oneil Cruz may not even be playing baseball in 5 years.
I prefer looking at the glass half full and being optimistic, but with at least a LITTLE bit of reality.
 
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Last night the broadcasters were comparing Cincinnati's Jose DeLeon with the Pirate of the same name (17-38 over 4 years). In 1985 "our" Jose DeLeon was 2-19 for the Bucs. Bob Walk, a teammate, said DeLeon had "tremendous" stuff. the organization couldn't figure out why he lost so many games, so they traded him to the White Sox the next year. (DeLeon would wind up with better career numbers thanks to fair success in CHI and STL). I had to laugh at Walk's selective memory.... the 85 Pirates were the dregs. They finished 57-105, never won more than three straight games and made losers out of everyone on the staff except Rick Reuschel, who went a supernatural 14-8 with a horrible club behind him. DeLeon had to be pretty resilient to take the ball every fifth day for that team.
 
Steve Kemp, Marvell Wynne, and(drumroll please) George Hendrick manning the outfield for the 1985 Pirates....not exactly Stargell, Oliver and Clemente...or even Stargell, Alou and Clemente...
 
Steve Kemp, Marvell Wynne, and(drumroll please) George Hendrick manning the outfield for the 1985 Pirates....not exactly Stargell, Oliver and Clemente...or even Stargell, Alou and Clemente...
It's funny. Unlike now where the Pirates just clear the house and go for basically minor leaguers/tweeners, back then they just collected over the hill guys. Kemp, Hendrick, Sixto Lezcano, Madlock, Johnny LeMaster, Rick Rueschel, Larry McWilliams.....
 
It's funny. Unlike now where the Pirates just clear the house and go for basically minor leaguers/tweeners, back then they just collected over the hill guys. Kemp, Hendrick, Sixto Lezcano, Madlock, Johnny LeMaster, Rick Rueschel, Larry McWilliams.....

Madlock wasn't over the hill. He was 28 when he came to Pittsburgh. He won batting titles in 81 and 83. The Buccos should be so lucky to sign a few over the hill guys like that.
 
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It's funny. Unlike now where the Pirates just clear the house and go for basically minor leaguers/tweeners, back then they just collected over the hill guys. Kemp, Hendrick, Sixto Lezcano, Madlock, Johnny LeMaster, Rick Rueschel, Larry McWilliams.....
Don’t forget Amos Otis, and Kirk Gibson.
 
It's funny. Unlike now where the Pirates just clear the house and go for basically minor leaguers/tweeners, back then they just collected over the hill guys. Kemp, Hendrick, Sixto Lezcano, Madlock, Johnny LeMaster, Rick Rueschel, Larry McWilliams.....
Rick Rueschel was far from over the hill. He was an effective starter for the Pirates, 14-8, on a last place team.
He was traded to San Francisco for Jeff Robinson, an effective pitcher for the Pirates.
Big Daddy had 2 great seasons for the Giants, and was 44-30 with a 3.28 ERA. Helped get them to the World Series and started game 2 for them.

Wish we could get a couple more over the hill guys like Big Daddy! Similar to A J Burnett.
 
That would be Derek. Jogging George never started up to shut down.
That’s what I thought. I can remember being at a game at 3 Rivers with about 4,000 other people. George hit a slow high hopper that the 3rd baseman fielded behind the bag almost in left field and threw him out at 1st base by at least 15 feet. 🤣🤣
 
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Rick Rueschel was far from over the hill. He was an effective starter for the Pirates, 14-8, on a last place team.
He was traded to San Francisco for Jeff Robinson, an effective pitcher for the Pirates.
Big Daddy had 2 great seasons for the Giants, and was 44-30 with a 3.28 ERA. Helped get them to the World Series and started game 2 for them.

Wish we could get a couple more over the hill guys like Big Daddy! Similar to A J Burnett.

Reuschel has a pretty decent case to be the best pitcher not in the Hall (at least the best not excluded for off the field stuff) in spite of his...let's be charitable and call it a lax approach to cardio. One of the all-time underrated players.
 
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Reuschel has a pretty decent case to be the best pitcher not in the Hall (at least the best not excluded for off the field stuff) in spite of his...let's be charitable and call it a lax approach to cardio. One of the all-time underrated players.
If I can remember, he was pretty decent at the plate too for a pitcher. He also was a human pear.
 
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I was half-hesitant to harp on Shelton about how error-prone this team is (currently last in baseball, was last in 2020). However, they were this bad before he arrived. In fact, they’ve been in the bottom ten in errors since 2009, when they actually led the league. In between that time period were six bottom-three finishes; even in the 98-win season they were second-to-last in the MLB.

It’s not that this surprises me after watching them during that time, but how do you even explain it? From 2007-09 they finished in the top five in errors twice, right around the time the Connelly/Huntington/Hurdle regime came into place. Could it be the coaches and instructional techniques that were implemented throughout the system? Might be something to follow as time goes on.
 
I was half-hesitant to harp on Shelton about how error-prone this team is (currently last in baseball, was last in 2020). However, they were this bad before he arrived. In fact, they’ve been in the bottom ten in errors since 2009, when they actually led the league. In between that time period were six bottom-three finishes; even in the 98-win season they were second-to-last in the MLB.

It’s not that this surprises me after watching them during that time, but how do you even explain it? From 2007-09 they finished in the top five in errors twice, right around the time the Connelly/Huntington/Hurdle regime came into place. Could it be the coaches and instructional techniques that were implemented throughout the system? Might be something to follow as time goes on.
Yeah, as much as they lack talent, they lack fundamentals even more.
 
They could have used him last night. I mean the current 70 year old version of him.
The right fielder came in to pitch the last inning. Retired the side on 4 pitches!
72 MPH fastball. Too funny!

Like I told my son when he had to pitch in Senior League, You get people out by throwing really fast or really slow. He did have a nasty slider though for a football player.
 
In 1985 he was over the hill.
Your post said "collecting". They collected Madlock in the prime of his career, not while he was over the hill like Joggin' George Hendrix. And won a World Series with his help and he won 2 batting titles, one just 2 years prior to '85. You're right about most of the rest (although Reuschel as noted in a few other posts showed that while he was past his prime, he was still really good and totally worthy of pitching in the Show).
 
Yeah, as much as they lack talent, they lack fundamentals even more.
Base running (when they actually get someone on base) is also still a problem. Yes, Nutting is a big problem. But the bigger problem is the quality of coaching in the minor league system. They develop almost no one. Ever. Very few homegrown players in the starting line up. You can't be a small market team and fail to develop players. I haven't paid much attention to moves that they have made with the Minor League coaching/development team or their scouts. I'm hoping that they are making strides there, because if they aren't, you can forget about competing any time this decade. We have a top 10 rated talent level in the minors right now. But if they aren't being developed, they will not succeed. Cole Tucker is a prime example. The kid is very talented. But even I can tell you his swing looks like it hasn't been worked on one bit over his tenure with the Buccos. Too long, bad angle. And I know almost nothing about swing mechanics. I know he hit in the minors, but the Show is a whole different thing. There is no way that the Pirates should've been promoting him up through the minors without developing his swing. The coaches were either lazy or incompetent. A real shame too since I do believe he would be a quality major leaguer by now with better development. At this point I believe he'll be another 1st round bust. Mitch Keller is the next bust on the horizon. I can't tell you what is wrong with him. But I seem to think that he'd have been better off in a different organization, like Cleveland perhaps, where minor league players get developed.
 
It's funny. Unlike now where the Pirates just clear the house and go for basically minor leaguers/tweeners, back then they just collected over the hill guys. Kemp, Hendrick, Sixto Lezcano, Madlock, Johnny LeMaster, Rick Rueschel, Larry McWilliams.....
Reuschel wasn't over the hill. He went 31-30 for the Pirates, then 44-30 for San Francisco to end his career with 219 wins.... Larry McWilliams was just 28 when he joined the Bucs and compiled a 43-44 record for some wretched teams in the mid-80s.... but Kemp, Joggin George, Amos Otis, Sixto... all bums. Glenn Wilson, Mike Kingery..... You could watch them break down before your very eyes. The unheralded Pirate of the 80s was Johnny Ray (1981-1987).
 
Reuschel wasn't over the hill. He went 31-30 for the Pirates, then 44-30 for San Francisco to end his career with 219 wins.... Larry McWilliams was just 28 when he joined the Bucs and compiled a 43-44 record for some wretched teams in the mid-80s.... but Kemp, Joggin George, Amos Otis, Sixto... all bums. Glenn Wilson, Mike Kingery..... You could watch them break down before your very eyes. The unheralded Pirate of the 80s was Johnny Ray (1981-1987).
The main point remains.
 
Who remembers Scott Loucks, he played , started a few games on that 85 team , I was there in person for those gems often. Hope .....we had then no hope anymore
 
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Which players on the current roster other than Hayes would you consider to be good, high level major league talents? Swiss Cheese has less holes than the Pirates.
 
Polanco is an all-time garbage pirate. Lowest baseball IQ ever. Awful bat. A black hole of money, resources and talent. Can we pay someone to take him? Is there enough money in circulation?
 
It was Bell who was 'operation shutdown' while batting .175 wtf?
And yeah, they 'tore it down' after maybe reaching .500. lol
 
You mean it’s going exactly as it should
Good grief
They tore it down this off season
They are going to lose most every game
Are we really going to get angst in April ?
I am not angsting at all. I agree with this. But I just find it hilarious they could be historically bad. Alot of this obviously is reflective on the previous regime, the fundamentals, the lack of development, the scouting and drafting, but I have to admit, I think this current major league level coaching staff is a place holder and I hope they have better teachers now in the minors.
 
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Polanco is an all-time garbage pirate. Lowest baseball IQ ever. Awful bat. A black hole of money, resources and talent. Can we pay someone to take him? Is there enough money in circulation?
It's always great to have a villain.

The Cubs are coming to town. Joc Pederson is hitting 059. Willson Contreras is at 071. Anthony Rizzo 105. Ian Happ 125. Javier Baez 136.
 
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It's always great to have a villain.

The Cubs are coming to town. Joc Pederson is hitting 059. Willson Contreras is at 071. Anthony Rizzo 105. Ian Happ 125. Javier Baez 136.
Their averages won’t stay there, and they know how to field a baseball and not run their teams out of an inning. Polanco really is atrocious in the field and running the bases. Very bad baseball IQ.
 
The Cubs are coming to town. Joc Pederson is hitting 059. Willson Contreras is at 071. Anthony Rizzo 105. Ian Happ 125. Javier Baez 136.


How many of those guys slashed .153/.214/.325 last season?

The only reason that Polonco is a "villain" is because he has chronically underachieved.
 
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