Anyone else worth mentioning at their level?
What would the next level look like, and how debatable is it?
What would the next level look like, and how debatable is it?
OT: Are Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh, Petersen without question the 4 best CFB coaches?
- Thread starter PittSqueak
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Harbaugh has coached a total of 6 seasons in college football. hard to anoint him just yet. he is by far the hype machine winner of all of them. more time will put him there probably if he wins at high level. peterson is proven he can win anywhere.
How can you overlook Todd Graham?
I prefer to consider the top coaches those that win with lesser talent. In my mind two of the best are Cutcliffe from Duke, and Snyder from Kansas State. Also would consider Peterson in that group from his Boise days. They have proven over time that they win in a lesser program with lower rated recruits, and have beaten teams more talented. JMO. The aforementioned are great coaches, but it's just easier with superior talent.
Yes, I'd say those are the top 4. Each of them have won in multiple places, proving to me that they are just that damn good. Peterson does not yet have the same level of talent as the other three.
Of the four I'd rank them as follows:
1. Saban: Sure, he gets the top recruits but he also resurrected fallen programs at both LSU and Alabama.
2. Meyer: He's won fewer NC and had inherited programs in a better place to win quickly, even with the sanctions at OSU.
Huge gap
3. Petersen: He has been great at Boise St. and Washington but lets not forget that he inherited good programs at both schools. Boise State was built by Koetter and Hawkins while Washington was resurrected from the depths by Sarkisian.
4. Harbaugh: Hasn't been around long enough to rate ahead of the others, even with his impressive stint at Stanford.
I think other coaches that fall into the second tier would be guys like Bob Stoops, Jimbo Fisher, Bobby Petrino (as much as it pains me to say it), Dabo Swinney, maybe Mike Gundy, Mark Dantonio
1. Saban: Sure, he gets the top recruits but he also resurrected fallen programs at both LSU and Alabama.
2. Meyer: He's won fewer NC and had inherited programs in a better place to win quickly, even with the sanctions at OSU.
Huge gap
3. Petersen: He has been great at Boise St. and Washington but lets not forget that he inherited good programs at both schools. Boise State was built by Koetter and Hawkins while Washington was resurrected from the depths by Sarkisian.
4. Harbaugh: Hasn't been around long enough to rate ahead of the others, even with his impressive stint at Stanford.
I think other coaches that fall into the second tier would be guys like Bob Stoops, Jimbo Fisher, Bobby Petrino (as much as it pains me to say it), Dabo Swinney, maybe Mike Gundy, Mark Dantonio
Saban is on his own level. The gap between Saban and Meyer is significant. The gap between Meyer and the next guy down--whether it be Harbaugh, Dantonio, Petersen or whoever--is enormous.
I'd put Saban ahead of Meyer, but it certainly is not a significant gap. Urban won the NC at Florida and OSU (beating Bama) and his 13-0 season at Utah is just as impressive, imo.
Surprised no one has mentioned McIntyre at #10 Colorado. Incredible job turning program around. If they get past Wash St and Utah, they go to Pac 12 championship. Also, character issues aside, Mike Leech at Wash. State.
McIntyre first winning season at Colorado previously was at San Jose St I believe. Don't know much about him than that he will be in line for a salary bump CU has a reputation of being cheap so he could be on the move but I don't believe he will.
-Meyer has 3 National Titles plus another undefeated Utah team at the age of 52 where they certainly could of been National Champions, I think that was the team that destroyed Alabama in the bowl game. Saban has 5 National Titles at the age of 65. It can be argued Meyer is actually better at this point. If Meyer won this year, I would without question rank Meyer ahead of Saban, especially because Saban was a complete bust in the NFL.
-Would Coaches like Peterson, Shaw, etc.. dominate at Ohio State or Alabama? Yes, they would. To the extent of the other 2 coaches, probably not. Harbaugh probably would round out my own Top 5. Big difference coaching Florida State and Oklahoma as opposed to Boise State, Stanford, Washington, etc..
One hit wonders get no love. Consistent excellence at the P5 level defines the best. Let's see how good Washington and Colorado are over the next 3-4 years.
Not sure how you guys have McIntyre, Leach or Petersen on that list without also having Dabo, Jimbo and Stoops on it.
meanwhile you can pretty much pencil in a NC for Bama this year and more than likely next year as well. The gap between that program and everyone else is big.
It's quite amazing how two years above average years as a coach can elevate you so quickly. It is amazing to see his record as a coach (34-50) with over half of those coming in two years. His conference record is (16-39) where 11 of them came in a two year span.
If anything this guy has shown he can take a program from the trash heap and put it on the map. The question with him will be can he sustain his success. I believe he played his college ball at Georgia Tech, so if Johnson was to get the boot I'm sure he would be their first call.
Can't forget what Saban did at MSU; Meyer built Utah From Nothing and then won immediatley Fla. and Harbaugh at SDSU, then Stanford post Walt Harris 1-11 season.
I consider them the top 4, with Saban and Meyers ahead of the others. After that their is a drop off and the next group is Dantonio, Patterson, Petrino (even though i would never want my son playing for him) Dabo, Fischer. Then the 3rd tier would be Pat Fitzgerald, Snyder, Cutcliffe, Fedora, PJ Fleck, Holgorson (I know we give them a lot of BS for bad competition, and it being WVU, but he has them winning), Ferentz, a few others who I can't remember right now.
Now here are the in-completes, guys with no ratings because not enough body of work to accuratly judge.
Narduzzi love his potential to be great
Herman- Was the next big thing, it died down a little but he has shown a lot in a little bit of time
Chryst- I can't give him a grade yet. Is this Wisky team his or Barry A's
Overrated coaches
1) Kelly
2) Butch Jones
Now here are the in-completes, guys with no ratings because not enough body of work to accuratly judge.
Narduzzi love his potential to be great
Herman- Was the next big thing, it died down a little but he has shown a lot in a little bit of time
Chryst- I can't give him a grade yet. Is this Wisky team his or Barry A's
Overrated coaches
1) Kelly
2) Butch Jones
-Peterson has 2 undefeated seasons, and won both Big 4 bowl games, beating powerhouse OU with Adrian Peterson in one of them and an undefeated TCU squad in the other. Had Boise State been given a fair chance in a playoff, he could of 2 National Titles right now.
-David Shaw has won the Pac-12 in 4 of the last 5 seasons, and won at least 11 games in 4 of the last 5 seasons, winning 12 games twice with 3 big 4 bowl wins. He's also only 44 years old, 21 years younger than Saban, and the Best Young Coach in College Football by a landslide right now. If Shaw was at Florida State, FSU would plow teams every year.
Urban Meyer Utah team is the one that throttled Pitt in the Fiesta bowl. Then he left for Fla and Walt went to Stanford
If u don't think the gap between Sabah and Meyers isn't significant ur mistaken,Sabah is going to win his 5 NC and this is by far one of his least talented team with a freshman QB,he might win another 3 or 4 in a row before he retires as the greatest CF coach ever
Plenty of guys have turned pathetic programs into decent ones, but nobody in the modern era has done what Saban is doing.
And Meyer is right up there 3 NC, and two undefeated seasons where he didn't win. And he took over a 2-9 BG and went 8-3 and 9-3. He took over a 5-6 Utah and went 10-2 and 12-0.
Harbaugh took over an atrocious Stanford and turned them into a power
Recruiting is part of coaching. It's their job to get the best players.
Harbaugh has still yet to win a division title in college football (much less a conference title).
Doesn't mean he never will, of course. Shoot, that fact may change within the next 8 days.
But until he does, he's still behind the likes of Stoops, Dantonio, Patterson and Fisher, IMO.
Doesn't mean he never will, of course. Shoot, that fact may change within the next 8 days.
But until he does, he's still behind the likes of Stoops, Dantonio, Patterson and Fisher, IMO.
Why? Being a successful HC is about the final product, not just coaching or just recruiting. I'm not sure why you would just ignore one or the other.
-LOL at you. If Meyer wins this year he'll have 4 National Titles and is 14 years younger than Saban.
I just appreciate and respect guys who do more with less. I would say if Cutcliffe and Snyder, for example, were at Bama or Ohio State, I think you would be talking about them in the same breath as Saban and Meyer. But not every coach has the opportunity of coaching in a high profile program. It just is not possible to recruit at places like Duke and K State like they can at Bama and OSU. I do think Saban and Meyer and among the best, but they also are in the best situations at those schools. To win NCs, you have to have great talent and great coaching, and those two schools have it. I think, though, that there are other coaches that are excellent, just not in the same situations.
But you spent a whole thread telling us OSU couldn't make the playoff. Going to be tough for Meyer.
Hopefully Saban gives him the young man another heart attack.
Not sure about that on Petersen, USC Defense wiped him up pretty bad last week, the game was not that close. I think Leach will give him a tough game too. Petersen is good for 9 to 11 wins year, but whether he can sustain 12-0 in Pac-12 remains to be seen. The PAC-12 is often underestimated every year, but has been down a tad these last few years. Once USC comes back and they have the talent to do it, and Oregon, ASU, UA, may make Coaching Changes. I still don't see Washington running the tables often even under Petersen. Even if Pac-12 makes NCS Playoffs it struggles, only USC has the Talent year in and out, once the have a coach look out!
One of Saban's "least talented teams"--LMAO. The entire defense will play in the NFL, as will half the offense. They have more talent on their scout team than most of the rest of the top 25 have as starters.
Saban brings a bazooka to a BB gun fight every Saturday. He's a great coach, and a huge part of being a great coach is making sure you have better players than anyone else.
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