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OT: Barry Bonds was Always a Jerk

I'm sorry but it was never proved that he juiced. So unless somebody can show me otherwise, he's a first ballot HOF.
Never proved? The physical evidence is glaring. His shoe size? Hat and shirt size. You can't get that big, especially naturally at that age without help. His weight and sizes jumped too fast. I've been around plenty of juice heads and I know one when I see one. Besides, if someone wanted to prove that he didn't juice and it was all diet and weights, how would he have the time to put that much time in the weight room to get that big as a professional baseball player? You can stand in the middle of a hurricane and pretend the wind isn't blowing but we can see.
 
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We’ll have to agree to disagree. Unless the HOF starts kicking out folks like Gaylord Perry (a known cheater), nobody has any right to moralize.

MLB was fully behind the publicity that came with the HR chases. Bonds is the greatest ball player of my generation and should have been a first ballot vote. No room to bring morality in when it’s not applied evenly.
I'm sure Barry appreciates your support. Now go get a job as a sports writer, and you can vote for him.

Glorifying juicers endangers the health of young athletes who may emulate that behavior to succeed.
No one ever died from a spitball.

Bonds will never get in, neither will Sosa or McGwire, or Clemons or Parker for that matter.
Pete Rose either.
They have plenty of $$ to start their own HOF. They can call it the "enhaced" HOF!
 
I'm sure Barry appreciates your support. Now go get a job as a sports writer, and you can vote for him.

Glorifying juicers endangers the health of young athletes who may emulate that behavior to succeed.
No one ever died from a spitball.

Bonds will never get in, neither will Sosa or McGwire, or Clemons or Parker for that matter.
Pete Rose either.
They have plenty of $$ to start their own HOF. They can call it the "enhaced" HOF!
None of those guys you mentioned can measure up to Barry. And I’m not talking about hat size either. Lol. The guy was epic. Not only did he pump enough synthetics into him that would make even Scott Steiner blush, but he had the machine on his arm on top of everything else.
 
None of those guys you mentioned can measure up to Barry. And I’m not talking about hat size either. Lol. The guy was epic. Not only did he pump enough synthetics into him that would make even Scott Steiner blush, but he had the machine on his arm on top of everything else.
these are two different people..


Cross Tattoos: barry bonds before and after steroids

PEDs Archives - Joe's Bleachers


 
these are two different people..


Cross Tattoos: barry bonds before and after steroids

PEDs Archives - Joe's Bleachers's Bleachers


And ironically, the one on the left was the more complete ball player.
Plenty good enough to make the HOF on the first ballot. Jerk or not.
He saw all of the hype and adulation that Sosa and McGwire were getting hitting HR's and his ego couldn't take it so he joined the parade and then some.

Other than his mediocre arm, the Pirates version of Bonds was just a whisker below Clemente. Trade the arm for more power and it is close to a tie.

I always said, if it was money he craved, all he had to do was be a decent human being and the cash from endorsements and public appearances, etc. would have rolled in. Even to this day.

But a skunk can't change his stripes. He was a spoiled brat all his life and got even worse as an adult.
 
And ironically, the one on the left was the more complete ball player.
Plenty good enough to make the HOF on the first ballot. Jerk or not.
He saw all of the hype and adulation that Sosa and McGwire were getting hitting HR's and his ego couldn't take it so he joined the parade and then some.

Other than his mediocre arm, the Pirates version of Bonds was just a whisker below Clemente. Trade the arm for more power and it is close to a tie.

I always said, if it was money he craved, all he had to do was be a decent human being and the cash from endorsements and public appearances, etc. would have rolled in. Even to this day.

But a skunk can't change his stripes. He was a spoiled brat all his life and got even worse as an adult.
this is going to sound like im being sarcastic but im 100% serious. you are almost dumb if you didnt do steroids in that era. especially if you were a marginal player. jay freakin bell hit 40+ home runs, brady anderson was a leadoff hitter and jacked 50 one year.

it was the wild west of steroid usage in the MLB and i'd have to imagine there were more people than not doing what barry was doing..
 
this is going to sound like im being sarcastic but im 100% serious. you are almost dumb if you didnt do steroids in that era. especially if you were a marginal player. jay freakin bell hit 40+ home runs, brady anderson was a leadoff hitter and jacked 50 one year.

it was the wild west of steroid usage in the MLB and i'd have to imagine there were more people than not doing what barry was doing..
But the point is, Bonds was plenty great WITHOUT juicing. He could do most of those things with his normal ability.

Juicing up to the point that he looked like the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man, made him a freak! And I can't imagine the steroids did much to calm his personality down either. Roid rage n'at!
 
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Then there’s the “well everyone was roiding argument”. Yeah well not everyone looked like him. Nobody went from the physique of a soccer player to that of an NFL lineman. And it was proven that he roided.

But then there’s the machine he wore on his elbow, which gave him a foreign apparatus that no one in the history of the game had and hasn’t had since because it’s now against the rules.

For years, sportswriters remarked that his massive “protective” gear – unequaled in all of baseball — permits Bonds to lean over the plate without fear of being hit by a pitch. Thus situated, Bonds can handle the outside pitch (where most pitchers live) unusually well. This is unfair advantage enough, but no longer controversial. However, it is only one of at least seven (largely unexplored) advantages conferred by the apparatus.

The other six:

1) The apparatus is hinged at the elbow. It is a literal “hitting machine” that allows Bonds to release his front arm on the same plane during every swing. It largely accounts for the seemingly magical consistency of every Bonds stroke.

2) The apparatus locks at the elbow when the lead arm is fully elongated because of a small flap at the top of the bottom section that fits into a groove in the bottom of the top section. The locked arm forms a rigid front arm fulcrum that allows extraordinary, maximally efficient explosion of the levers of Bonds’ wrists. Bonds hands are quicker than those of average hitters because of his mechanical “assistant.”


3) When Bonds swings, the weight of the apparatus helps to seal his inner upper arm to his torso at impact. Thus “connected,” he automatically hits the ball with the weight of his entire body – not just his arms – as average hitters (“extending”) tend to do.

4) Bonds has performed less well in Home Run Derbies than one might expect because he has no excuse to wear a “protector” facing a batting practice pitcher. As he tires, his front arm elbow tends to lift and he swings under the ball, producing towering pop flies or topspin liners that stay in the park. When the apparatus is worn, its weight keeps his elbow down and he drives the ball with backspin.

5) Bonds enjoys quicker access to the inside pitch than average hitters because his “assistant” – counter-intuitively – allows him to turn more rapidly. Everyone understands that skaters accelerate their spins by pulling their arms into their torsos, closer to their axes of rotation. When Bonds is confronted with an inside pitch, he spins like a skater because his upper front arm is “assistant”-sealed tightly against the side of his chest.

6) At impact, Bonds has additional mass (the weight of his “assistant”) not available to the average hitter. The combined weight of “assistant” and bat is probably equal to the weight of the lumber wielded by Babe Ruth but with more manageable weight distribution.
The shame of it.....when he was not on steroids, and looked normal and was with the Pirates, he was on a Hall of Fame trajectory anyways.
 
Still, he had an mvp and should have had a 2nd before the roids started. He’d have continued to be an elite player.

The problem is, we will never know because if the roids. So his pre roids sample size was too small.

Well, that is the issue.

I definitely dont believe him when he said the roids started. In 1992 when I played for Pitt baseball, we had a GNC rep come by all the time who would give us all sorts of stuff. Myself being a chemical engineer, stayed away from any injectables, but took other stuff, but they were available and the guy claimed there were Pirates using them for "over 4 years"

Now, then too we were taught not to bulk up, because it was bad for muscle flexibility, and would lead to tears and damage, I would assume Bonds did the same, just used performance enhancing drugs to improve workouts without bulking up... until the Sosa and McGwire area... then he did too. Pitchers, like me were still told not to bulk up because it would hurt rotator cuffs and tommy john ligaments. However, I got huge myself just using what I did huge

I certainly dont know when Bonds took steroids, but there were rumors of it in ASU, so there is no reason to think he was not looking into at Pittsburgh either, he had plenty of money, and plenty of opportunity, and one of the largest "nutrition" companies right there.

I am sure he was a good baseball player, my point is, what if Wade Boggs or Tony Gwynn roided it up? They were natural hitters that made great contact and good exit velocities while being doubles hitters. They could have both turned into 50-60 home run players as well. As could many guys throughout the years. Just the obvious of breaking the law, and using illegal substances (ie, cheating), he should not be in the hall, and really cant be compared to others from other eras.
 
Have you ever compared the size of Tony Gwynn's head in his final season to his rookie season?

Yes! I did. I even did in depth mandible analysis on him, Boggs and Bonds. Gwynns was within the standard deviation of northern male humans where as Boggs's was made entirely of beer. Bonds's head enlarged to a Macy's Thanksgiving Day float size
 
Circling back through this thread again and I do find it interesting that most people don’t think Bonds should be in the HOF
The only objection I have is that he is such a jerk to other weaker people, I am glad to see him receive no recognition and remain outside of a system he held so much disrespect for. Who can deny he was one of the all-tie greats? But who cares....
 
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The shame of it.....when he was not on steroids, and looked normal and was with the Pirates, he was on a Hall of Fame trajectory anyways.

should have given the money to Bonds instead of Van Slyke. Baseball died in Pittsburgh in October 1992 when Bonds played his last game here. Oh yeah, but Cueto dropped the ball
 
The only objection I have is that he is such a jerk to other weaker people, I am glad to see him receive no recognition and remain outside of a system he held so much disrespect for. Who can deny he was one of the all-tie greats? But who cares....
I literally think there is no way he is among the all time greats. It is a dumb argument, the guy cheated by using illegal substances. If you found out Usain Bolt used rockets to make himself faster, would we still think he is the fastest human? Is Enron still a great company cause their books looked so great at one time? Are they still considered one of the all time great companies? No... there are many examples I can go on. The guy was a good ball player, good genes, and good hand eye coordination. So what? Lots of people have that. It really is impossible to say he is one of the all time greats. What if Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Clemente, Aaron, Ruth, Gehrig, heck Rogers Hornsby all took steroids? They would dwarf Bonds stats.

The fact he is a ginormous ass is just a bonus to that
 
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I literally think there is no way he is among the all time greats. It is a dumb argument, the guy cheated by using illegal substances. If you found out Usain Bolt used rockets to make himself faster, would we still think he is the fastest human? Is Enron still a great company cause their books looked so great at one time? Are they still considered one of the all time great companies? No... there are many examples I can go on. The guy was a good ball player, good genes, and good hand eye coordination. So what? Lots of people have that. It really is impossible to say he is one of the all time greats. What if Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Clemente, Aaron, Ruth, Gehrig, heck Rogers Hornsby all took steroids? They would dwarf Bonds stats.

The fact he is a ginormous ass is just a bonus to that
Consider, for example, Gehrig. In 1938, he hit .295, with 29 homers and 114 RBI . . . unknowingly playing with the disease that would claim his life less than three years later.
 
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