OT: Canada Basketball fails to qualify again

[Sean Miller Fan]

With the incredible surge of high major D1/NBA players from Canada (Toronto metro area specifically) in the last 20 years or so, Canada PROBABLY has the 2nd best basketball talent in the world. Yet, they continue to sh!t the bed on the international stage. Amazing this team cant even MAKE the Olympics.

Their team of 8 NBA players, NBA coach, and 4 high level Euro players lost to 🇨🇿 in their qualifying semifinal. Couldnt even make the Final, which was played in British Columbia. 🇨🇿 isn't even a good basketball country and only had 1 NBA player (Satoransky).

They didnt make the last Olympics either despite having 9 NBA players, losing to Venezuela, who had 0

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

With the incredible surge of high major D1/NBA players from Canada (Toronto metro area specifically) in the last 20 years or so, Canada PROBABLY has the 2nd best basketball talent in the world. Yet, they continue to sh!t the bed on the international stage. Amazing this team cant even MAKE the Olympics.

Their team of 8 NBA players, NBA coach, and 4 high level Euro players lost to 🇨🇿 in their qualifying semifinal. Couldnt even make the Final, which was played in British Columbia. 🇨🇿 isn't even a good basketball country and only had 1 NBA player (Satoransky).

They didnt make the last Olympics either despite having 9 NBA players, losing to Venezuela, who had 0

Just my opinion, but Canadian basketball players are SOOOOO soft. I can’t think of one that isn’t super talented but they don’t play hard at all and love to take plays off.

 

[thirteenNINE]

Just my opinion, but Canadian basketball players are SOOOOO soft. I can’t think of one that isn’t super talented but they don’t play hard at all and love to take plays off.

Their defensive effort for most of the game against Czechia was pathetic, the Czechs shot 48 threes and hit them at a 47.9% clip. It took monster games from Barrett and Wiggins just to get them back in the game.

It also didn't help that Ondrej Balvin just destroyed the Canadian interior players with 19 boards and 5 blocks and that, while he isn't a NBA player, I'd rather have Balvin for a game like that than Andrew Nicholson or Dwight Powell. Give me the 7'2" guy who used to play for Bayern and various Liga ACB teams over NBA stretch 5 role players any day of the week in a one off FIBA game.

Edit: In related FIBA news, Luka played an absolutely special game this morning (31/11/13) to upset a very good Lithuania team in Lithuania and get Slovenia through to the Olympics. It was a real masterclass.

Italy also upset Serbia in Serbia today so all four seeded home teams (Lithuania, Serbia, Croatia (lost to eventual winners Germany in the semis), and Canada) didn't win their pods which was more than a little bit surprising.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Just my opinion, but Canadian basketball players are SOOOOO soft. I can’t think of one that isn’t super talented but they don’t play hard at all and love to take plays off.

I mean maybe but to not even MAKE the Olympics? This isn't US Soccer failing to qualify in U23 tournaments? In all reality, those are USA B or C teams playing against Central American team who are just as talented, if not more talented and we complain to no end that US Soccer can never make the Olympics. But friggin Canada cant even get an NBA team to qualify for the Olympics despite having the 2nd best basketball talent in the world.

 

[thirteenNINE]

I know that I should never take the SMF bait but...have you considered that France, Australia, Lithuania, and Spain exist when you are ranking national teams? Or that over the past 40 years that the second Americas slots for the Olympics have been filled by only Brazil, who are always good and during that period featured one of the great scorers of all time, or the golden generation of Argentine basketball (an Argentina that is still ranked 4th in the world)?

Canada has underachieved recently to be sure but they aren't some sort of historical underachiever at all, they just weren't very good until around 5 years ago and still have quite a ways to go.

In other news, the Czechs are dominating Rick Pitino's Greece team early on in the first so I'm really enjoying a very upset Pitino so far.

Update: The Czechs are up 27 now after three quarters and are just murdering Greece on the glass with 11 offensive boards to just 9 defensive boards for Greece. Their three headed center situation has 40 points, 15 boards, and 10 assists so far. We may have to allow that Czechia is just, you know, good.

Pitino now just looks sad and defeated but is still at least cursing during timeouts.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

have you considered that France, Australia, Lithuania, and Spain exist when you are ranking national teams? Or that over the past 40 years that the second Americas slots for the Olympics have been filled by only Brazil, who are always good and during that period featured one of the great scorers of all time, or the golden generation of Argentine basketball (an Argentina that is still ranked 4th in the world)?

Wait, hold on a second, are you trying to tell us that the Canada isn't now, and never has been, one of the two world powers in basketball?

I mean the only way that one could possibly come to that conclusion would be if you, you know, actually paid attention. And you really don't think that SMF should have to pay attention to something before he makes a pronouncement on it, do you?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

All tough players in Canada play hockey.

 

[levance2]

But friggin Canada cant even get an NBA team to qualify for the Olympics despite having the 2nd best basketball talent in the world.

 

[JRPITT]

Just my opinion, but Canadian basketball players are SOOOOO soft. I can’t think of one that isn’t super talented but they don’t play hard at all and love to take plays off.

Wow! You are saying Canadian BB players are soft? I was once a huge NBA fan but no longer because I believe the entire NBA is too soft. Flagrant fouls? Very little defensive resistance in the paint.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I know that I should never take the SMF bait but...have you considered that France, Australia, Lithuania, and Spain exist when you are ranking national teams? Or that over the past 40 years that the second Americas slots for the Olympics have been filled by only Brazil, who are always good and during that period featured one of the great scorers of all time, or the golden generation of Argentine basketball (an Argentina that is still ranked 4th in the world)?

Canada has underachieved recently to be sure but they aren't some sort of historical underachiever at all, they just weren't very good until around 5 years ago and still have quite a ways to go.

In other news, the Czechs are dominating Rick Pitino's Greece team early on in the first so I'm really enjoying a very upset Pitino so far.

Update: The Czechs are up 27 now after three quarters and are just murdering Greece on the glass with 11 offensive boards to just 9 defensive boards for Greece. Their three headed center situation has 40 points, 15 boards, and 10 assists so far. We may have to allow that Czechia is just, you know, good.

Pitino now just looks sad and defeated but is still at least cursing during timeouts.

Who has the best collection of NBA players besides the USA?

Please compare and contrast all those teams with Canada? France is the only one who comes even remotely close

 

[H2PisIT]

I thought Levon Kendall was tough.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

There are some good Euro leagues with legitimately good players. There’s nowhere for Canadian players to aspire to other than the NBA. So they probably are slightly over represented relative to other countries in terms of NBA presence.

Case in point, Vasilije Micic was MVP of the EuroLeague. He’s had his draft rights owned for several years, was flirting with coming over this off-season yet again via his agent, then re-signed a huge deal with his European team instead.

Lots of Euro guys are happy to stay in a familiar area, making a ton of money, and having all of their necessities paid for on top of their salary. And they’re legitimate stars there, not Luguentz Dort or Trey Lyles or Alexander-Walker.

Fine NBA players but probably a 50/50 chance at best they’d get recognized most places.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

There are some good Euro leagues with legitimately good players. There’s nowhere for Canadian players to aspire to other than the NBA. So they probably are slightly over represented relative to other countries in terms of NBA presence.

Case in point, Vasilije Micic was MVP of the EuroLeague. He’s had his draft rights owned for several years, was flirting with coming over this off-season yet again via his agent, then re-signed a huge deal with his European team instead.

Lots of Euro guys are happy to stay in a familiar area, making a ton of money, and having all of their necessities paid for on top of their salary. And they’re legitimate stars there, not Luguentz Dort or Trey Lyles or Alexander-Walker.

Fine NBA players but probably a 50/50 chance at best they’d get recognized most places.

You listed guys who went 12th, 17th, and 21st in the NBA Draft. If you put a team of NBA 1st Rounders on the court, they should be able to beat a team mostly of guys who couldn't make an NBA roster. And I dont get what you mean by Canadiens being over-represented in the NBA. NBA teams will take the best player available regardless of nationality. I honestly think Europeans are over-represented. I hate when I see some Euro dude, 10th man on the bench taking money away from an American kid just as good.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

You listed guys who went 12th, 17th, and 21st in the NBA Draft. If you put a team of NBA 1st Rounders on the court, they should be able to beat a team mostly of guys who couldn't make an NBA roster. And I dont get what you mean by Canadiens being over-represented in the NBA. NBA teams will take the best player available regardless of nationality. I honestly think Europeans are over-represented. I hate when I see some Euro dude, 10th man on the bench taking money away from an American kid just as good.

Lu Dort was an undrafted FA and a bunch of Euro guys fall because they want to stick in Europe for a bit and wait out coming over.

Bogdan Bogdanovic stayed over there because he would get paid more than he would on a rookie scale deal.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Lu Dort was an undrafted FA and a bunch of Euro guys fall because they want to stick in Europe for a bit and wait out coming over.

Bogdan Bogdanovic stayed over there because he would get paid more than he would on a rookie scale deal.

OK I was wrong on Dort but he's a legit NBA player. I realize there's some Euro guys who could play here but never come but not as many as you think. Canada's failure to qualify despite having the 2nd most talent in the world is a debacle.

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

Jamal Murray being out probably doesn't help them either.

 

[Ski11585]

I appreciate that SMF follows the Bill Simmons method of arguing a point.

“It just is!”

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I appreciate that SMF follows the Bill Simmons method of arguing a point.

“It just is!”

Would you like to be the 1st person in this thread to name a country with more NBA talent than Canada (besides USA) and list the players? Or is SMF right as always?

 

[Ski11585]

Would you like to be the 1st person in this thread to name a country with more NBA talent than Canada (besides USA) and list the players? Or is SMF right as always?

Right after you provide a substantive response to @thirteenNINE. Someone who actually does know basketball.

 

[thirteenNINE]

So, leaving aside arguing with SMF which is absolutely pointless, I was curious about which current national team had the most NBA win shares so I put this together over my morning coffee since I'm not working today. It's the top 8 teams after the USA in the FIBA rankings plus SMF's beloved Canada, Croatia, Turkey, and Slovenia who have noteworthy NBA talent right now.

- Completely expectedly Spain laps the field multiple times over even though they have a lot of players like Rudy Fernandez and Niko Mirotic who are much happier starring in Spain than they were as good NBA players.

- Argentina is impressive to me because they were runner up in the last World Cup without really any NBA presence at all, they have done well not to fall off after the retirements of Ginobli, Nocioni, and the pending retirement of Scola

- I really enjoy a lot of names who are stars in Europe but only had a brief NBA cup of coffee like Spanoulis, Teodosic, and Datome. The Greek team in particular is lousy with that sort of guy and it just shows how comfortable that life is as a star in Greece.

- It's disappointing that the NBA Playoffs overlapped Olympic qualifying so badly this year though. No Jokic, no Saric, and no Giannis were crippling blows to Serbia, Croatia, and Greece and probably cost them spots in the field.

- A team not on this list to watch in the future is probably Talib Zanna's Nigeria team. They have done a great job getting players like Jordan Nwora and Josh Okogie to play for their national team lately and if they could add qualified players like Oladipo, Adebayo, or Anunoby to their roster they could make some serious noise here very soon.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Would you like to be the 1st person in this thread to name a country with more NBA talent than Canada (besides USA) and list the players? Or is SMF right as always?

As always? May Madness was insane!

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

So, leaving aside arguing with SMF which is absolutely pointless, I was curious about which current national team had the most NBA win shares so I put this together over my morning coffee since I'm not working today. It's the top 8 teams after the USA in the FIBA rankings plus SMF's beloved Canada, Croatia, Turkey, and Slovenia who have noteworthy NBA talent right now.

- Completely expectedly Spain laps the field multiple times over even though they have a lot of players like Rudy Fernandez and Niko Mirotic who are much happier starring in Spain than they were as good NBA players.

- Argentina is impressive to me because they were runner up in the last World Cup without really any NBA presence at all, they have done well not to fall off after the retirements of Ginobli, Nocioni, and the pending retirement of Scola

- I really enjoy a lot of names who are stars in Europe but only had a brief NBA cup of coffee like Spanoulis, Teodosic, and Datome. The Greek team in particular is lousy with that sort of guy and it just shows how comfortable that life is as a star in Greece.

- It's disappointing that the NBA Playoffs overlapped Olympic qualifying so badly this year though. No Jokic, no Saric, and no Giannis were crippling blows to Serbia, Croatia, and Greece and probably cost them spots in the field.

- A team not on this list to watch in the future is probably Talib Zanna's Nigeria team. They have done a great job getting players like Jordan Nwora and Josh Okogie to play for their national team lately and if they could add qualified players like Oladipo, Adebayo, or Anunoby to their roster they could make some serious noise here very soon.

Yea but none of that matters! Despite Canada’s best player not playing and the majority of their guys being role players they are the best!

 

[Pitt3Putt]

Jamal Murray being out probably doesn't help them either.

Same with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander

 

[thirteenNINE]

Yea but none of that matters! Despite Canada’s best player not playing and the majority of their guys being role players they are the best!

I do think that list does a good job of highlighting that Canada is mostly made up of role players and compilers which doesn't really help them internationally. Their top win share player on the list, Joseph, was benched against the Czechs because he was being murdered out there and their third best win share player, Lyles, was absolutely dominated inside by Jan Vesely and Ondrej Balvin.

Gilgeous-Alexander and Murray will play for them someday, or maybe not because a team with those two and RJ Barrett probably doesn't have enough basketballs to go around, but that team consistently beating Brazil, Argentina, or even the Dominican Republic is hardly a given.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

So, leaving aside arguing with SMF which is absolutely pointless, I was curious about which current national team had the most NBA win shares so I put this together over my morning coffee since I'm not working today. It's the top 8 teams after the USA in the FIBA rankings plus SMF's beloved Canada, Croatia, Turkey, and Slovenia who have noteworthy NBA talent right now.

- Completely expectedly Spain laps the field multiple times over even though they have a lot of players like Rudy Fernandez and Niko Mirotic who are much happier starring in Spain than they were as good NBA players.

- Argentina is impressive to me because they were runner up in the last World Cup without really any NBA presence at all, they have done well not to fall off after the retirements of Ginobli, Nocioni, and the pending retirement of Scola

- I really enjoy a lot of names who are stars in Europe but only had a brief NBA cup of coffee like Spanoulis, Teodosic, and Datome. The Greek team in particular is lousy with that sort of guy and it just shows how comfortable that life is as a star in Greece.

- It's disappointing that the NBA Playoffs overlapped Olympic qualifying so badly this year though. No Jokic, no Saric, and no Giannis were crippling blows to Serbia, Croatia, and Greece and probably cost them spots in the field.

- A team not on this list to watch in the future is probably Talib Zanna's Nigeria team. They have done a great job getting players like Jordan Nwora and Josh Okogie to play for their national team lately and if they could add qualified players like Oladipo, Adebayo, or Anunoby to their roster they could make some serious noise here very soon.

What in the world kind of math did you use on that? The Gasol brothers account for more than half of Spain's "win shares" but they're a million. Pau retired 3 years ago and Marc averaged 5 PPG last season.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

I do think that list does a good job of highlighting that Canada is mostly made up of role players and compilers which doesn't really help them internationally. Their top win share player on the list, Joseph, was benched against the Czechs because he was being murdered out there and their third best win share player, Lyles, was absolutely dominated inside by Jan Vesely and Ondrej Balvin.

Gilgeous-Alexander and Murray will play for them someday, or maybe not because a team with those two and RJ Barrett probably doesn't have enough basketballs to go around, but that team consistently beating Brazil, Argentina, or even the Dominican Republic is hardly a given.

This doesn’t really change the analysis of them being a team of role players but I totally forgot about Olynyk, who I think is a decent international option. Tristan Thompson isn’t awesome but he’s also not Anthony Bennett or Trey Lyles.

The Barrett/Murray/SGA thing will be interesting. I think SGA can sit back a bit if needed but also he’s likely to be their best player in 4 years.

 

[cease10]

Team USA lost in the 02 World Championships, 04 Olympics, and 06 World Championships with all NBA players.

The rest of the world has gotten better without NBA players. The End.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Team USA lost in the 02 World Championships, 04 Olympics, and 06 World Championships with all NBA players.

The rest of the world has gotten better without NBA players. The End.

Upsets happen. For Canada to continue to not even make the Olympics is more than getting upset in qualifying tournaments every 4 years.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

Upsets happen. For Canada to continue to not even make the Olympics is more than getting upset in qualifying tournaments every 4 years.

The US didn't just get upset in one freaky game in 2004. They lost three of eight, including a blow out loss to Puerto Rico. Why? I think because there are good NBA roleplay guys, including on Canada, who have deficiencies in their game that you can exploit. In the US loss to Greece in 2006, it was that the US had too many players who couldn't switch on screens, so Greece kept doing high pick and rolls to shoot threes from above the key. Coach K is a smart guy who noticed that, and shook up the roster for 2008 to focus on superior defensive oriented guys in addition to the remarkable star power that roster had. Greece wasn't like magically lucky that game, they found a path to victory the US couldn't adjust to in one game.

My point is you can't just count NBA players to determine the best team. Not just because there are some (granted, an exception to the rule) players in the EuroLeague who could be NBA starters, but also because if you have someone who normally plays 12 minutes a game in the NBA but in the Olympics will be asked to play 30 minutes, you can be in trouble if they have a deficiency a national team can scout and exploit. Pretty simply, as mentioned, Canada was really missing Jamal Murray especially, and S G-A, and continue on a disappointing but upwards trajectory.

I have little doubt Canada will be an even stronger international basketball team in 2 and 4 years. Czechia was hot. (So was Italy.) Perhaps if Canada was slotted in the German group they'd be in the Olympics even with some key players missing. Canadian basketball isn't a mess, they just have a team of guys who don't play together enough, who had injuries, and who ran into a team playing really well. It happens.

 

[cease10]

The US didn't just get upset in one freaky game in 2004. They lost three of eight, including a blow out loss to Puerto Rico. Why? I think because there are good NBA roleplay guys, including on Canada, who have deficiencies in their game that you can exploit. In the US loss to Greece in 2006, it was that the US had too many players who couldn't switch on screens, so Greece kept doing high pick and rolls to shoot threes from above the key. Coach K is a smart guy who noticed that, and shook up the roster for 2008 to focus on superior defensive oriented guys in addition to the remarkable star power that roster had. Greece wasn't like magically lucky that game, they found a path to victory the US couldn't adjust to in one game.

My point is you can't just count NBA players to determine the best team. Not just because there are some (granted, an exception to the rule) players in the EuroLeague who could be NBA starters, but also because if you have someone who normally plays 12 minutes a game in the NBA but in the Olympics will be asked to play 30 minutes, you can be in trouble if they have a deficiency a national team can scout and exploit. Pretty simply, as mentioned, Canada was really missing Jamal Murray especially, and S G-A, and continue on a disappointing but upwards trajectory.

I have little doubt Canada will be an even stronger international basketball team in 2 and 4 years. Czechia was hot. (So was Italy.) Perhaps if Canada was slotted in the German group they'd be in the Olympics even with some key players missing. Canadian basketball isn't a mess, they just have a team of guys who don't play together enough, who had injuries, and who ran into a team playing really well. It happens.

Thanks for expanding. I just didn't really feel like explaining more for him.

Jerry Colangelo, USA Basketball Director, basically revamped USA basketball and requested players and coaches to make a multi year commitment in order to build team continuity and chemistry. An advantage in which many of the other countries had since those players were playing together internationally since boys.

The "Redeem Team" for Team USA was then formed.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

Nigeria 90 - 87 USA.

 

[BFo8]

I was actually debating going to this game, but with the fight tonight and 65k for the Garth Brooks concert both right down the road just didn’t feel like dealing with all the congestion on the Strip.

Saw USA as 30.5 point favorite at a couple places.

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

I thought Levon Kendall was tough.

Did you know Levon Kendall once scored 41 points in a game for Canada. He also played a mean piano!

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Nigeria 90 - 87 USA.

Nigeria has a lot of talent. Yea, not USA's quality obviously and they should never beat them but from an International standpoint, they are pretty loaded.

NBA guys
Gabe Vincent (Heat)
Precious Achiuwa (Heat)
KZ Okpala (Heat)
Chemezie Metu (Kings)
Josh Okogie (Timberwolves)
Miye Oni (Jazz)
Jahlil Okafor (Pistons)
Michael Gbinije (former Syracuse, played briefly for Pistons)
Ike Nwamu (G league in 19-20)

This is a team that COULD win Silver

 

[Pitt3Putt]

Nigeria has a lot of talent. Yea, not USA's quality obviously and they should never beat them but from an International standpoint, they are pretty loaded.

NBA guys
Gabe Vincent (Heat)
Precious Achiuwa (Heat)
KZ Okpala (Heat)
Chemezie Metu (Kings)
Josh Okogie (Timberwolves)
Miye Oni (Jazz)
Jahlil Okafor (Pistons)
Michael Gbinije (former Syracuse, played briefly for Pistons)
Ike Nwamu (G league in 19-20)

This is a team that COULD win Silver

Lol, well played.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

Nigeria is 22nd in FIBA rankings. A good team, and a great win.

But counting NBA players ain't it, SMF. I'd be shocked if Nigeria medals. Their grouping has Australia, Germany, and Italy. So they may fail to advance past quarterfinals.

 

[cease10]

Team USA is NOT winning the gold in this year's Olympics. I'll be surprised if they even medal.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

In the words of Isaiah Thomas, the secret of basketball is it's not about basketball. Team USA chemistry is bad so far (on court, no clue at a more personal level)

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Canada screwed up. They needed Levon Kendall. He would have dropped 40 points and then played the piano to entertain the team after the game.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Nigeria is 22nd in FIBA rankings. A good team, and a great win.

But counting NBA players ain't it, SMF. I'd be shocked if Nigeria medals. Their grouping has Australia, Germany, and Italy. So they may fail to advance past quarterfinals.

Damn. USA lost to Australia tonight. Good thing we aren’t in that group. We might not win a game.