OT- Chris Sale

[President Stache]

Just went to the Red Sox for perhaps one of the greatest haul of prospects ever.

I think Sale is one of the top pitchers in the game, but wow, if they can get that return, our asking price for Cutch better have just increased.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Sale is worth way more than Cutch and this won't have much affect. Plus other teams know the Pirates are sellers eventually. His down hear isn't helping - obviously. Always been overrated in the field. And all teams know there's no way the Pirates are gonna sign him so they're always in a weak position. He still should get some value in return.

Unless someone gives up a bunch they might need to gamble, hope he finds his form, and deal him at the deadline (don't see much chance the Buccos will be any kind of factor).

 

[CaptainMurphy]

All the rumors of asking the Nats for Robles in return don't make sense to me. If they are going to deal Cutch now, it needs to be for starting pitching that can contribute from day 1 in 2017. I was hopeful we could pry away one of the Nat's starters if they had landed Sale. It still may be a possibility if they pivot to Archer. Something along the lines of Cutch + Watson for Roark + Lopez + Glover would make sense to me. Cutch still does hold considerable value, even with 2016 being a down year. If I'm the Pirates I don't hold him until the deadline. Too much risk of another slump or injury further depleting his value. Besides, Cutch is worth more now given that he still has a full two years on his contract. His uptick at the end of the year helped his value, too.

 

[mvk112]

Cutch and Watson for Roark, Lopez, and Glover would be awful.

That is all.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Yea that's the key if they're gonna trade him pre season. They need a trading partner that views his down year as a minor blip for whatever reason.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Cutch and Watson for Roark, Lopez, and Glover would be awful.

That is all.

How so? Roark is a top end of the rotation arm under team control for another three years + 2 top 5 prospects in a very deep system. Lopez can start the season in the rotation and Glover slots as a future shut down pen arm/closer. If thats not enough they could ask for a useful prospect such as 3B Franco.

A rotation of Cole, Roark, Taillon, Kuhl, Lopez would be awfully formidable with little of the chance for regression that we've seen in prior years. Add to that the guys waiting in the wings (Glasnow, Kingham, etc...) and you could really put together a lock down pen with guys like Rivero already in the fold.

I get the ask for Robles and Giolito but Robles is a few years away and Giolito isn't a sure thing. If I'm the Pirates, I make a move that includes prospects but solidifies the rotation for 17. This team probably makes the playoffs in 16 (even without production from Cutch) if the rotation isn't a complete and utter raging dumpster fire.

 

[wbrpanther]

Just went to the Red Sox for perhaps one of the greatest haul of prospects ever.

I think Sale is one of the top pitchers in the game, but wow, if they can get that return, our asking price for Cutch better have just increased.

Sale is a more valuable player than Cutch. Pitchers are harder to come by and Cutch is in the 30+ year old range when the vast majority of players start their decline. Cutch is still valuable but he isn't going to bring a treasure load.

 

[wbrpanther]

All the rumors of asking the Nats for Robles in return don't make sense to me. If they are going to deal Cutch now, it needs to be for starting pitching that can contribute from day 1 in 2017. I was hopeful we could pry away one of the Nat's starters if they had landed Sale. It still may be a possibility if they pivot to Archer. Something along the lines of Cutch + Watson for Roark + Lopez + Glover would make sense to me. Cutch still does hold considerable value, even with 2016 being a down year. If I'm the Pirates I don't hold him until the deadline. Too much risk of another slump or injury further depleting his value. Besides, Cutch is worth more now given that he still has a full two years on his contract. His uptick at the end of the year helped his value, too.

Getting a top of the line starter isn't going to happen but a solid 3 or 4 guy would be worth it along with a prospect.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Sale is a more valuable player than Cutch. Pitchers are harder to come by and Cutch is in the 30+ year old range when the vast majority of players start their decline. Cutch is still valuable but he isn't going to bring a treasure load.

He also has 3 years and 37.5 mil on his current contract so that makes him even that much more valuable.

Washington not getting Sale may help. They seem to have been quite active and haven't gotten anything done. Maybe they'll up their offer.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Getting a top of the line starter isn't going to happen but a solid 3 or 4 guy would be worth it along with a prospect.

Well, that is really what Roark is....a very good 3. For us he is a 2/3. Another option is Joe Ross but his injury issues scare me.

 

[jtownknowitall]

The Nationals could just as easily hold on to their prospects and sign Dexter Fowler or Ian Desmond or trade for Adam Eaton.

What they probably need more than an outfielder is to replace Melancon.

I wonder what it would have taken for the Pirates to land Sale.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

The Nationals could just as easily hold on to their prospects and sign Dexter Fowler or Ian Desmond or trade for Adam Eaton.

What they probably need more than an outfielder is to replace Melancon.

I wonder what it would have taken for the Pirates to land Sale.

Probably Meadows + Glasnow + Keller + Newman + more

 

[wbrpanther]

The Nationals could just as easily hold on to their prospects and sign Dexter Fowler or Ian Desmond or trade for Adam Eaton.

What they probably need more than an outfielder is to replace Melancon.

I wonder what it would have taken for the Pirates to land Sale.

Probably 2 things.

1. several of their very top prospects which teams in Pittsburghs financial position can't afford to do. Grooming prospects to replace guys nearing free agency is the only way to stay competitive.

2. The willingness to pay Sale 13 million dollars a year for the 3 years left on his contract.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Getting a top of the line starter isn't going to happen but a solid 3 or 4 guy would be worth it along with a prospect.

Andrew McCutchen is two years removed from being the MVP of the National League. We had better get more for him than a number four starter and a prospect.

The Pirates are clearly sellers but he has two years left on his deal. They are not in that weak of a position.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Probably 2 things.

1. several of their very top prospects which teams in Pittsburghs financial position can't afford to do. Grooming prospects to replace guys nearing free agency is the only way to stay competitive.

2. The willingness to pay Sale 13 million dollars a year for the 3 years left on his contract.

Also, scissor-resistant throwbacks.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Trading Cutch makes alot of sense. However, putting it on the cumulative moves of shedding every big ticket contract the Pirates have had since the 98 win season of 2 years ago indicates that the Pirates are not bridging but rebuilding. And that is OK. Own it. Be honest. But they won't.

The Sale trade was interesting, could make the Nats more desperate, but the Pirates are going to trade Cutch, to who? Who knows. I would throw in Watson as a sweetener, and with the Nats just losing Melancon, that can only help. I am sure the Dodgers and Rangers are sniffing around also.

The rotation is shambles. Personally, at last year I would have signed Happ, kept Walker and let him walk after the year and traded a couple of top prospects for either Sale and Archer and go into this past year with Cole, Liriano, Happ, Sale/Archer and whoever (eventually Taillon) and take my chances by moving Walker to 1B. But that long since passed us by as far as an opportunity.

How pathetic this organization is, they acquire (their words) "financial flexibility in an offseason when there were no real pitching FA's worth using that "financial flexibility" unlike last year with Grienke, Price, Cueto, Zimmerman, Samardjia, Leake, Anderson, Happ, etc.......where Happ was like the 10th or 11th most sought after FA pitcher, unlike this year where he would likely have been 1 or 2. So again, another BS lie by this organization who is the Industry Leader in BS and Lies. It is why I plan to attend as many games this year as I did last, and that is 0.0.

 

[President Stache]

Also, scissor-resistant throwbacks.

ok, spit out the afternoon coffee on that one.

Yeah... reading this thread makes me wonder one main thing:

WHY ARE PEOPLE SO NEGATIVE ON PITT, if all you want from Cutch, who JUST turned 30 last month is a mid rotation starter and a prospect?

For chissakes, Robles, Lopez AND another from the Nats or Bellinger and DeLeon from the Dodgers or I heard the Rangers are in it, mmm Profar, Mendez... others? I actually dont think the Rangers have anything.

Blue Jays also interested, but again, they dont have any prospects, since the 2 we traded are in their top 5.

 

[jtownknowitall]

McCutchen for Happ?

Or better yet, McCutchen for Liriano

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

McCutchen to the Mets for Jon Neise.

 

[paulbl99]

Sale is worth way more than Cutch and this won't have much affect. Plus other teams know the Pirates are sellers eventually. His down hear isn't helping - obviously. Always been overrated in the field. And all teams know there's no way the Pirates are gonna sign him so they're always in a weak position. He still should get some value in return.

Unless someone gives up a bunch they might need to gamble, hope he finds his form, and deal him at the deadline (don't see much chance the Buccos will be any kind of factor).

Yes Sale is more valuable and the Bucs can't get anything in return like Chicago did.

But the Nats just lost out on probably their top get to make them a WS team by not being willing to part with what it took to get it.

If they're serious about needing another piece to make them the club they want to be ...NH should try to pry out of them a little more than one might think Cutch can bring right now. Or convince the Nats they're desperate for a RING and get a lot more .......

 

[President Stache]

McCutchen for Happ?

Or better yet, McCutchen for Liriano

We would have to throw in Meadows and Glasnow to get Liriano back

 

[President Stache]

Seriously though... Boston sold out for this year, but so what?? The prospect they gave up was bought by them for huge dollars, they can just buy more prospects, they just got Jason Groom which went 12th due to signability, and the Red Sox just said... nooooo signability issues here, and drafted him.

So, baseball simply isnt level on any plane

 

[Panther Parrothead]

It's not a question of whether or not the Bucs will get fleeced; the real question is how badly will they get fleeced.