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OT: For the 7 folks who commute between TJ area and Monroeville

Do the same thing with 30 between Irwin and the Parkway East and you solve a lot of traffic headaches this road hopes to alleviate. Maybe extend 43 east to 30 (along with that part that will extend west to 79). I guess that section is designated as 576.
I know people don't want to pay tolls, but can't you just take the turnpike as the limited access highway road from Irwin to the Parkway East? I get that 30 is a little bit more of a direct line than the turnpike, but it still accomplishes the same thing.

Same with something mentioned above -- somebody wanted a four lane road from 28 to 79 to serve growing southern Butler County. But the turnpike already exists and does that.
 
I know people don't want to pay tolls, but can't you just take the turnpike as the limited access highway road from Irwin to the Parkway East? I get that 30 is a little bit more of a direct line than the turnpike, but it still accomplishes the same thing.

Same with something mentioned above -- somebody wanted a four lane road from 28 to 79 to serve growing southern Butler County. But the turnpike already exists and does that.

Not so much to avoid the Turnpike. Thinking more along the lines of access from places like McKeesport and that whole area.
 
Not so much to avoid the Turnpike. Thinking more along the lines of access from places like McKeesport and that whole area.
I think that was the whole idea behind 43 -- put in an interstate for access into and out of the Mon Valley, as the highway alternative to 51 and 30 (which are roads I avoid like the plague, they're awful IMO). The problem right now is 43 doesn't really go anywhere on the northern end ... it only serves Mon Valley communities south of Clairton and misses McKeesport, Duquesne, etc., plus it doesn't even provide a good exit point for those coming from Mon Valley communities south of Clairton because it ends in the middle of Jefferson Hills onto route 51. The ideal move would be to extend it to the Parkway East in Hazelwood/Greenfield, but I understand that is cost prohibitive. I do not see much of a point of making the northern terminus Monroeville.
 
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I think that was the whole idea behind 43 -- put in an interstate for access into and out of the Mon Valley, as the highway alternative to 51 and 30 (which are roads I avoid like the plague, they're awful IMO). The problem right now is 43 doesn't really go anywhere on the northern end ... it only serves Mon Valley communities south of Clairton and misses McKeesport, Duquesne, etc., plus it doesn't even provide a good exit point for those coming from Mon Valley communities south of Clairton because it ends in the middle of Jefferson Hills onto route 51. The ideal move would be to extend it to the Parkway East in Hazelwood/Greenfield, but I understand that is cost prohibitive. I do not see much of a point of making the northern terminus Monroeville.

I agree, there is little sense in routing it to Monroeville. It’s why I think having it connect to 51 and 30 (and then improving both of those roads) makes more sense. Essentially keep the plan of continuing it to Duquesne and then build a bridge over the Mon and connect to 30 between Turtle Creek and North Versailles. Then anyone coming north has multiple options into the city.

You don’t need to have highways right to the center of the city. Just need to vastly improve the infrastructure we already have.
 
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How many people live down there? How many people actually travel downtown?

Kind of a lot if you go by school district sizes. Now, how many travel downtown, especially now with work at home? Probably not many but you need a southern route into the city.

The following school district areas would use it

Baldwin 5A
TJ 4A
WM 3A
EF 3A
BVA 3A
SP 2A
Bethel Park 5A
Brentwood 2A
 
There might be other reasons to extend 43 to some other highway instead of ending in the middle of Jefferson Hills like it is currently set-up, but to provide a better way to get to the airport from Monroeville and points east strikes me as unrealistic. It's too circuitous. If they want to create a better way to get to the airport from the east -- as well as generally improving traffic flow and transportation in our region -- they need to spend the money to make the Fort Pitt Tunnels and Squirrel Hill Tunnels three lanes.

If a politician representing the Pittsburgh area really cared about quality of life for the constituents, there would be only 2 transportation projects they should push: #1 making the parkway tunnels three lanes, and #2 extending light rail to Oakland.

Yea, no one is going to take a toll road from Monroeville all the way south into Washington County and Canonsburg just to go back up north to the airport. That's such a long route, you'd probably need an overnight stay.
 
Yea, no one is going to take a toll road from Monroeville all the way south into Washington County and Canonsburg just to go back up north to the airport. That's such a long route, you'd probably need an overnight stay.

It’s a bizarre route choice for sure. Only will really benefit those in the extreme south who want to go to the airport or get on the turnpike heading west into Ohio.
 
Via helicopter?

Turn at the Bowser. Follow that road (I believe it's Lewis Run) all the way down to New England Road. Make a right, drive about 100 yards, and then turn left on Shadyside. You turn on a few more roads in that plan (Dennison and Beverly, maybe) and come out on Camp Hollow. Go right, turn left after the Maxim Crane lot or whatever it is (the left before the Irwin Works. Follow that down to River Road, which you can take to the McKeesport/Duquesne Bridge. Left on 5th (I believe that's the name of it); follow it all the way up to where it crosses over 30; follow it back down the mountain until you make a right on that bridge that leads into Wilderming. From there, it's pretty much a straight shot to Monroeville.
 
The money disappears if they don’t do it there. They wanted to do alternatives but were told no and then the money would have been sent to Philly.

This same process is why the T goes to the north shore and NOT to Oakland.

Its all about census data. City pols to their credit.....lobbied for the rail to go to Oakland.

Feds said no. North side or no funding.
 
Turn at the Bowser. Follow that road (I believe it's Lewis Run) all the way down to New England Road. Make a right, drive about 100 yards, and then turn left on Shadyside. You turn on a few more roads in that plan (Dennison and Beverly, maybe) and come out on Camp Hollow. Go right, turn left after the Maxim Crane lot or whatever it is (the left before the Irwin Works. Follow that down to River Road, which you can take to the McKeesport/Duquesne Bridge. Left on 5th (I believe that's the name of it); follow it all the way up to where it crosses over 30; follow it back down the mountain until you make a right on that bridge that leads into Wilderming. From there, it's pretty much a straight shot to Monroeville.
I know the route. I wouldn't call it quick.
 
Yep. I think the smartest thing to do now is focus on 51 between 43 and the Ft Pitt Bridge. Start widening it, adding lanes, etc… It will take out many businesses but I think it’s the one project that is most needed in the region.

At one point the plan was to build a tunnel under Mt Washington to connect 51 to the Birmingham Bridge (hence why it was built so big). Would have put a big hole in the South Side but would have been brilliant for getting into Oakland from the south.

 
This same process is why the T goes to the north shore and NOT to Oakland.

Its all about census data. City pols to their credit.....lobbied for the rail to go to Oakland.

Feds said no. North side or no funding.

What happened was Republican county leaders were elected in (I think) 1994 and killed the T extensions into Oakland and the NorthSIDE.... UNITL... they met with the Rooneys, who likely threatened or made an offer they couldn't refuse, and suddently the T extension was back on again to the NorthSIDE. They got the federal money with the intent to connect the T to the NorthSIDE where people live and could use it EVERYDAY from where they live to get to work, but once the project began, the extension into the NorthSIDE was determined not feasible (wink wink nudge nudge, because they knew all along) and the line was changed to end at the Steelers front door on the NorthSHORE.

Disgusting.
 
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56d0b3536e97c629008ba07c
 
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How many people live down there? How many people actually travel downtown?
i live in the heart of the area he's talking about and used to work downtown in north shore. it's not that hard, you just go down 51 or you can go rt 19 or you can go down banksville. all pretty much the same time.

i mean, yeah 51 has a few red lights and rt 19 in lebo and dormont you always have that one A-hole that parks on the road when you arent allowed but again, this isnt a hard commute.. never more than 45 minutes.

If you live closer to century 3, again 51 or take back road in thru hazelwood. it's not a complicated issue. maybe if you are talking Mon valley, that's further out but i cant imagine too many mon valley residents are driving into downtown pgh in this day and age..
 
Funny! But trains are will waaay more efficiant. For example...

EVERY PERSON IN THESE CARS
cars.png


WOULD FIT IN THIS COMMUTER TRAIN
dd-train.png


But we will just end up widening the road and having more traffic.
I don't think anyone is talking about adding a lane to Route 30 or Route 51. I think people are talking along the lines of what they did to Route 22 through Murrysville, which is not a limited access highway but still seems vastly improved from how it used to be.

I advocate for extra lanes for the Fort Pitt Tunnels and Squirrel Hill Tunnels. My biggest issue is that those are mostly three lane highways -- except when you approach the tunnels, then it goes down to two lanes. It's not so much asking to add a lane to the highway, it is simply keeping the lane that the highway has all the way through the tunnels.
 
Funny! But trains are will waaay more efficiant. For example...

EVERY PERSON IN THESE CARS
cars.png


WOULD FIT IN THIS COMMUTER TRAIN
dd-train.png


But we will just end up widening the road and having more traffic.

My post was meant to be funny. I'm guessing yours wasn't, even though it was a ridiculous overgeneralization trying to make a point that nobody is arguing with.
 
I don't think anyone is talking about adding a lane to Route 30 or Route 51. I think people are talking along the lines of what they did to Route 22 through Murrysville, which is not a limited access highway but still seems vastly improved from how it used to be.

I advocate for extra lanes for the Fort Pitt Tunnels and Squirrel Hill Tunnels. My biggest issue is that those are mostly three lane highways -- except when you approach the tunnels, then it goes down to two lanes. It's not so much asking to add a lane to the highway, it is simply keeping the lane that the highway has all the way through the tunnels.

Yeah, for 51 they could add medians, widen lanes, turning lanes, add pedestrian access where possible. And maybe make it look like you aren’t descending into hell.
 
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My post was meant to be funny. I'm guessing yours wasn't, even though it was a ridiculous overgeneralization trying to make a point that nobody is arguing with.

I thought your post was funny.

It was suggested the solution was to widen a road, and I suggested that it would only lead to more traffic.
 
I thought your post was funny.

It was suggested the solution was to widen a road, and I suggested that it would only lead to more traffic.

Rail isn't fixing much of what is being discussed in this thread. A 5 second look at a map of Pittsburgh highways will tell you what the problem is.
 
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With all the money that Penn Dot is spending on this road, I think a much better option would be to have them purchase all of the land above the Squirrel Hill Tunnel and then blow it up and create an open air road to allow all of the people who slow down entering into the tunnel EVERYDAY, to maintain the posted speed limit of 55 mph.
 
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People in this region (and certainly many others not with widespread sophisticated public transit) are not conditioned to adjusting their schedules to the current confines of public transportation. A place like NY and others with tremendous subway systems have nearly infinite possibilities and people have easier times finding solutions that suit their own timing. There are such limited options (in general) here that it is more difficult, especially the further out of downtown you live (and/or work). So it’s easy to say it’s the solution (and I’d love it to be, I increasingly hate driving) but hardly nobody they show in the bumper to bumper traffic are coming and going from/to the same places.
 
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