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OT: Gainey going after tax exempt status of Pitt properties

CrazyPaco

CrazyPaco

Athletic Director
Jul 5, 2001
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The OC lot (yes, you read that right....the former Pitt Stadium tailgate lot): A parking lot used year round for parking of faculty, staff, students, and visitors with a $7 daily rate fee.

UPMC owned Forbes Tower, which is the home to Pitt's School of Rehabilitation Science and other UPMC offices, including its Emergency Medicine division.

Appears to me to be a waste of resources for a weak bit of local political theater. I can only think it is some sort of effort to extract more PILOT payments. I don't see how either of these properties tax exempt status wouldn't hold up in court.
 
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He has become MIA recently so this was his way of actually showing the city he is trying to accomplish something. Maybe a lengthy review of the many small and medium sized businesses that are leaving should have his full attention. That’s tax dollars leaving also
 
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Gainey was lucky enough to run for Mayor at exactly the right time. Going to be a one and done.

With that said... UMPC aint no non profit.
 
I mean…this seems logical. Pitt charges money on the lot, it’s operated by a ALCO parking, a for-profit parking operator, it’s open to the general public for paid parking, and they use the lot for a variety of for-profit purposes (primarily for event parking, including basketball games and concerts at the Pete). I think the decision to only list the OC lot, and not the variety of other parking facilities that Pitt operates.

I understand that the nature of the non-profit exemption for a non-profit’s profitable parking facilities is a bit of a legal gray area…but I don’t think this is too objectionable. Most of the properties that were included on the list yesterday seem like very legitimate challenges (most of which are single-family homes owned by individuals or LLC’s who obviously don’t meet the exemption requirements).
 
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CrazyPaco said:
The OC lot (yes, you read that right....the former Pitt Stadium tailgate lot): A parking lot used year round for parking of faculty, staff, students, and visitors with a $7 daily rate fee.

UPMC owned Forbes Tower, which is the home to Pitt's School of Rehabilitation Science and other UPMC offices, including its Emergency Medicine division.

Appears to me to be a waste of resources for a weak bit of local political theater. I can only think it is some sort of effort to extract more PILOT payments. I don't see how either of these properties tax exempt status wouldn't hold up in court.
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Upmc and pitt are by far the largest property owners in Allegheny county
Seeking those property taxes is far from a weak effort .
 
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pittchagg said:
I mean…this seems logical. Pitt charges money on the lot, it’s operated by a ALCO parking, a for-profit parking operator, it’s open to the general public for paid parking, and they use the lot for a variety of for-profit purposes (primarily for event parking, including basketball games and concerts at the Pete). I think the decision to only list the OC lot, and not the variety of other parking facilities that Pitt operates.

I understand that the nature of the non-profit exemption for a non-profit’s profitable parking facilities is a bit of a legal gray area…but I don’t think this is too objectionable. Most of the properties that were included on the list yesterday seem like very legitimate challenges (most of which are single-family homes owned by individuals or LLC’s who obviously don’t meet the exemption requirements).
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It's not against the state code (or the IRS code for that matter) for an NP to make money outside of an assets normal purpose. That portion would be taxable as unrelated business income but that wouldn't change the charitable purpose or change how property taxes are viewed. Plus, the city is likely already dipping into revenues from other events with other taxes.
 
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PittPharm2002 said:
Upmc and pitt are by far the largest property owners in Allegheny county
Seeking those property taxes is far from a weak effort .
Click to expand...
Going after the OC is weak because it is going to be bitch slapped out of the stratosphere by any half decent lawyer if it ends up in court.

Forbes Tower may be slightly different, because the spaces in it are set up like condo units legally, so they may be able to address individual uses for particular units. But I imagine it will be a tough argument but it really depends on the individual spaces they are going after. For instance, they'd have no chance going after the spaces occupied by SHRS.
 
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I don't know how many consecutive administrations have tried to challenge nonprofit status and real estate tax exemptions, but they have all failed. And they have all failed for good reason.....the law is in favor of the non profits
 
KennyTheKangaroo said:
I don't know how many consecutive administrations have tried to challenge nonprofit status and real estate tax exemptions, but they have all failed. And they have all failed for good reason.....the law is in favor of the non profits
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It’s a convenient distraction/bogeyman for these terrible mayors. What’s funny is when it’s noted that attacking these entities that provide so much of the city’s employment is moronic, the point is lost on the supporters for doing this… because they hate the idea of employment.
 
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A few years ago UPMC refused to negotiate with Highmark. If you had Highmark you wouldn't be able
to use UPMC facilities or see UPMC doctors. Then Attorney General Shapiro brought up might be a good
idea checking up on UPMC non profit status. Before you could count to ten UPMC came to an agreement
with Highmark. It must have been a coincidence.
 
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pittbacker1 said:
A few years ago UPMC refused to negotiate with Highmark. If you had Highmark you wouldn't be able
to use UPMC facilities or see UPMC doctors. Then Attorney General Shapiro brought up might be a good
idea checking up on UPMC non profit status. Before you could count to ten UPMC came to an agreement
with Highmark. It must have been a coincidence.
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Fun Fact: There are hospital systems all over the country that don't take a specific carrier's insurance. In this instance, Blue Cross Blue Shield (Highmark, in Pa).

It is very rare that a hospital system takes all of the insurance companies' plans in an area.
 
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pittbacker1 said:
A few years ago UPMC refused to negotiate with Highmark. If you had Highmark you wouldn't be able
to use UPMC facilities or see UPMC doctors. Then Attorney General Shapiro brought up might be a good
idea checking up on UPMC non profit status. Before you could count to ten UPMC came to an agreement
with Highmark. It must have been a coincidence.
Click to expand...


And now you get to pay more for your insurance than you would have otherwise! Hooray! Who doesn't like paying more for their insurance?

Oh, wait, that isn't what Josh Shapiro's talking point is about that issue, so maybe we shouldn't point that out to people.
 
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RaleighPittFan said:
Fun Fact: There are hospital systems all over the country that don't take a specific carrier's insurance. In this instance, Blue Cross Blue Shield (Highmark, in Pa).

It is very rare that a hospital system takes all of the insurance companies' plans in an area.
Click to expand...

Lol. UPMC be like "we have the right to compete by putting other local companies out of business. Poor us. Stop picking on us. Waaaa. Here's your $10 million check Mr. Romoff.".
 
HailtoPitt said:
Lol. UPMC be like "we have the right to compete by putting other local companies out of business. Poor us. Stop picking on us. Waaaay.".
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WTF are you referring to? UPMC putting Blue Cross Blue Shield out of business?

Go anywhere in the country and you’ll find hospitals in network with some insurance companies, and out of network with others.

I think you may have bought into the “spin” on this one.
 
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RaleighPittFan said:
WTF are you referring to? UPMC putting Blue Cross Blue Shield out of business?

Go anywhere in the country and you’ll find hospitals in network with some insurance companies, and out of network with others.

I think you may have bought into the “spin” on this one.
Click to expand...

Stop. They wanted to hurt the local competition.
 
The original post was about the non profit standing of UPMC. If UPMC wasn't worried about their
non profit standing why did they come to an agreement with Hmark as soon as Shapiro's inquiry.
That's no coincidence
 
pittbacker1 said:
The original post was about the non profit standing of UPMC. If UPMC wasn't worried about their
non profit standing why did they come to an agreement with Hmark as soon as Shapiro's inquiry.
That's no coincidence
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What would agreeing to contract terms with an insurance company have to do with non-profit standing?

Please enlighten me, because that make absolutely no sense to me.
 
RaleighPittFan said:
What would agreeing to contract terms with an insurance company have to do with non-profit standing?

Please enlighten me, because that make absolutely no sense to me.
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Because - spoiler alert -
The insurance arms of both health systems actually run the show
I can assure you as I’ve worked for both
There is zero buffer between insurance and healthcare
And I can assure you on contracting for lower cost therapeutic equivalent products - we’ve been overrided by the health plan based on reimbursement rates and rebate/kickbacks from pharma companies

Welcome to the real world, sparky
 
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RaleighPittFan said:
WTF are you referring to? UPMC putting Blue Cross Blue Shield out of business?

Go anywhere in the country and you’ll find hospitals in network with some insurance companies, and out of network with others.

I think you may have bought into the “spin” on this one.
Click to expand...
You live is Raleigh
Unc healthcare accepts all insurance companies since it’s the state hospital .
Sit this one out .
 
PittPharm2002 said:
Because - spoiler alert -
The insurance arms of both health systems actually run the show
I can assure you as I’ve worked for both
There is zero buffer between insurance and healthcare
And I can assure you on contracting for lower cost therapeutic equivalent products - we’ve been overrided by the health plan based on reimbursement rates and rebate/kickbacks from pharma companies

Welcome to the real world, sparky
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I’m in the real world. They are either non profit, or they aren’t. Signing a contract with Blue Cross would not affect that either way.

Snarky sparky.
 
PittPharm2002 said:
You live is Raleigh
Unc healthcare accepts all insurance companies since it’s the state hospital .
Sit this one out .
Click to expand...
Fail.

They don’t take Experience Health plans, including their Medicare Advantage plans.

Maybe you should sit this one out.
 
RaleighPittFan said:
I’m in the real world. They are either non profit, or they aren’t. Signing a contract with Blue Cross would not affect that either way.

Snarky sparky.
Click to expand...
You understand that bcbs is also “non-profit” right ?

It was upmc health vs Highmark at the detriment of patients .
Sit this one out
 
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