OT: Huge NHL Day
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Ray Shero pulled off another heist. Jesus Edmonton.
I think Montreal's trade was dumb, but not in the same stratosphere. At least they save an ENORMOUS amount of money because of how Webber's deal is structured and are still getting a very good D back. The Preds hold the overwhelming majority of the cap implications if Webber retires before his deal expires.
I think Montreal's trade was dumb, but not in the same stratosphere. At least they save an ENORMOUS amount of money because of how Webber's deal is structured and are still getting a very good D back. The Preds hold the overwhelming majority of the cap implications if Webber retires before his deal expires.
The Taylor Hall trade definitely was a head scratcher. I would definitely agree that Shero most likely won that trade...and quite possibly by a mile.
I think that likely means that Edmonton is going to sign Milan Lucic - they likely see some Semenko/Gretzky potential for Lucic/McDavid. I'm sure that's what they are thinking.
Perhaps they are looking at this like Lucic and Larson for Hall? I know that is how I looked at last year's trade with Vancouver which exchanged Bonino (Bonino! Bonino! Bonino!) for Brandon Sutter. I saw it is a pure value proposition.
I thought - and still think - Brandon Sutter is a better player than Bonino one for one. However, by trading away that contract we were also then able to sign Eric Fehr. Sutter is nowhere near as good as the combination of Bonino and Fehr.
Also, full disclosure, Bonino played way better in the playoffs than I ever thought he was capable of playing, making that an even better decision.
Also, there's probably a fair amount of pressure in Edmonton (internally and externally) to give the captaincy to McDavid. That's a lot more awkward to do if you keep the current captain. Obviously, teams have done it. Los Angeles just did it and San Jose has done it twice. Still, it is not an easy trick.
What I don't understand is why Edmonton didn't offer Hall for Subban? If the Montreal blueliner was clearly on the market, that seems like a better deal for Edmonton than Hall for Larson - by most accounts a second pairing defenseman. I think they could've had Subban had they chosen to go that route.
Also, what about the Islanders? Travis Hamonic is much better than Larson and he has openly stated for the last year-and-a-half that he wanted to be traded to a Western Canadian team. The Islanders are about to lose through free agency two really good forwards in Okposo and Neilsson. You're telling me he would not enhance their forward unit? He's the perfect winger to play with a guy like Tavares.
The whole trade is very weird. Edmonton could have and should have done much, much better.
I think that likely means that Edmonton is going to sign Milan Lucic - they likely see some Semenko/Gretzky potential for Lucic/McDavid. I'm sure that's what they are thinking.
Perhaps they are looking at this like Lucic and Larson for Hall? I know that is how I looked at last year's trade with Vancouver which exchanged Bonino (Bonino! Bonino! Bonino!) for Brandon Sutter. I saw it is a pure value proposition.
I thought - and still think - Brandon Sutter is a better player than Bonino one for one. However, by trading away that contract we were also then able to sign Eric Fehr. Sutter is nowhere near as good as the combination of Bonino and Fehr.
Also, full disclosure, Bonino played way better in the playoffs than I ever thought he was capable of playing, making that an even better decision.
Also, there's probably a fair amount of pressure in Edmonton (internally and externally) to give the captaincy to McDavid. That's a lot more awkward to do if you keep the current captain. Obviously, teams have done it. Los Angeles just did it and San Jose has done it twice. Still, it is not an easy trick.
What I don't understand is why Edmonton didn't offer Hall for Subban? If the Montreal blueliner was clearly on the market, that seems like a better deal for Edmonton than Hall for Larson - by most accounts a second pairing defenseman. I think they could've had Subban had they chosen to go that route.
Also, what about the Islanders? Travis Hamonic is much better than Larson and he has openly stated for the last year-and-a-half that he wanted to be traded to a Western Canadian team. The Islanders are about to lose through free agency two really good forwards in Okposo and Neilsson. You're telling me he would not enhance their forward unit? He's the perfect winger to play with a guy like Tavares.
The whole trade is very weird. Edmonton could have and should have done much, much better.
Incidentally, did you know that the top six picks from the 2010 NHL player entry draft have all been traded? That is a phenomenal tidbit of information. I am not sure I have ever seen anything quite like that before?
Also, I cannot think of another example in the history of professional sports in which one GM traded away the top two overall picks from the same draft as Chiarelli did with Seguin and Hall. That too has to be a record.
Also, I cannot think of another example in the history of professional sports in which one GM traded away the top two overall picks from the same draft as Chiarelli did with Seguin and Hall. That too has to be a record.
As for the Subban/Weber trade, I think that's a closer one.
First of all let me say that I think they are two of the three most overrated defensemen in hockey - with Erik Karlsson easily holding down the top spot on that list. Both players definitely have their limitations.
I just like Subban better because he skates much better than the lumbering Weber and he's three years younger than Weber, who has started the show some wear on his tires.
What Weber will do for Montreal is he will improve their power play. They just traded for Andrew Shaw and they already have guys like Brendan Gallagher and Max Pacioretty. Those are old school North/south hockey players. Weber will allow them to continue to play that way and will free them up in a way that the more complex, East/West player in Subban preferred to play.
First of all let me say that I think they are two of the three most overrated defensemen in hockey - with Erik Karlsson easily holding down the top spot on that list. Both players definitely have their limitations.
I just like Subban better because he skates much better than the lumbering Weber and he's three years younger than Weber, who has started the show some wear on his tires.
What Weber will do for Montreal is he will improve their power play. They just traded for Andrew Shaw and they already have guys like Brendan Gallagher and Max Pacioretty. Those are old school North/south hockey players. Weber will allow them to continue to play that way and will free them up in a way that the more complex, East/West player in Subban preferred to play.
Subban is much younger. Weber has a much worse contract. Mtl comes up on the short end of the stick.
But Weber's contract isn't really worse for Montreal because the Preds front loaded the vast, vast majority of it, while Subban's is loaded into the middle and back of the deal. The cap hit is reasonable and Montreal owes him practically nothing in actual salary after the next two years. Montreal saves against the cap by about $1.15M per year and saves $6M in actual salary over the next 5 years, while they have almost no exposure to possibility of cap recapture. Actually, the best (and pretty likely) case scenario for Montreal is Weber plays those 5 years and then goes on LTIR and Montreal regains the cap charge anyway. They would end up paying Weber the same amount in salary across his contract, but gained $1.15M in cap room for each of those years and spread their actual dollars out over 4-5 more years.
Financially this makes a lot of sense for Montreal if they even get 3 years out of Weber and great if they get 5 or 6. Of course it is highly unlikely Subban is only $1.15M in cap charge each year better than Weber over the next 5.
Montreal does not care about the actual dollars. They are swimming in money. Their only real interest would be salary cap considerations.
they are swimming in dollars, doesn't hide the fact that they lost this trade. subban is 27, weber is 31. subban is going to provide more of a return, early in the trade and also at the end of the trade.
They might not care as much as the Predators should, but it is a benefit of the trade.
I'd start any search on that topic with the Pirates or the Browns but that is pretty insane.
At this point, if I was Montreal, I would have rather tried for Roman Josi. I think he is now better overall than Weber and his contract is absolutely one of the best in the NHL. I have to admit, as GM's go, I really like David Poile. Always has been one of the best.
I agree with you but there is no way Nashville would have parted with Josi. He is their best D – and was last year too – and on a very friendly contract.
Honestly, I think Montreal just wanted to get rid of Subban and they took the best return they could get to make it happen.
I still think Taylor Hall would've been a better return and Edmonton obviously would have done that. However, maybe they feel like they've already put too much money at forward and they wanted a D back?
Either way, I think Nashville got the better end of that trade and I am certain that New Jersey got the better end of its trade with Edmonton. That one looks like a straight up steal to me.
Honestly, I think Montreal just wanted to get rid of Subban and they took the best return they could get to make it happen.
I still think Taylor Hall would've been a better return and Edmonton obviously would have done that. However, maybe they feel like they've already put too much money at forward and they wanted a D back?
Either way, I think Nashville got the better end of that trade and I am certain that New Jersey got the better end of its trade with Edmonton. That one looks like a straight up steal to me.
Lovejoy got 3 years at $2.66M. Definitely out of our price range, but would have been a decent number for him to come back if Fluery had been traded with no significant salary back.
I would rather have security in goal than a third pairing defenseman - especially an older one making north of $3.5 million per year. Don't get me wrong, the right Reverend Lovejoy did a very good job for us. However, he is definitely replaceable.
Who?
Looks like the options are Percy and Warsofsky. Not real confident in our depth #6-8. Better stay very, very healthy on the blueline.
i'm thinking that JR is going to try and bring in Seindenberg(sp?) if he can work out the money. He got bought out in Boston. JR has a track record with him.
He can barely get around the rink anymore. That would seem to be a pretty bad fit unless it is for the minimum or camp tryout.
My prediction is that we won't have our 6 guys on D in stone until March 2017. Or GM of the year, who knows the goalie position very well, played it safe and trades MAF for anything 25 games into the season or right before trade deadline.
Rip, it is July 1st. I am not sure why so many of you are so anxious. My god, it is July 1st. There is 4 months until games starts, 8 months until meaningful games start.
I am not anxious, but there isn't money to work with, so I think this tells us we will most likely go into the season with these as our #6-8 options.
Right, but that would've been true even if we had re-signed Lovejoy. Also, had we traded Fleury, we would've had to stay very, very healthy in goal and on D.
It was a simple value judgment and it is not worth paying a bottom pairing defenseman the kind of money Lovejoy got from New Jersey. That is also why it was a good decision not to re-sign Schultz, who was making $3.9 million per year. That is too much money for that kind of role.
Basically, we chose Fleury over Lovejoy and I'm a-okay with that.
Look, you are going to get your way, they are going to trade Fleury. They just chose not to do it on your timeline for Calgary's substandard offer. Only time will tell if their gamble was worth it.
There are 500 David Warsofsky's in the AHL and in Europe. We will have at least one on our roster next year and our D-corps won't be appreciably different than it was this past year. If we need a decent one, I am pretty confident we can find one - likely at next years trade deadline after we trade Fleury.
In the meantime, we have a great insurance policy should our young netminder struggle or get injured.
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Percy is actually not a bad prospect to have and might actually turn out to be ok. Don't sleep on him.
I hope they don't sign anybody personally....maybe just bring in some vets on workout deals. They need the first 5/6 months of the season to see what they have in Pouliot. He, like Simon Despres are not getting a fair shake from the upper management due to their dislike of his off the ice behavior. Give the kid a shot and see what he can do, don't worry about if he likes to drink in his down time and bang broads. That's what young 20 year olds like to do.
I hope they don't sign anybody personally....maybe just bring in some vets on workout deals. They need the first 5/6 months of the season to see what they have in Pouliot. He, like Simon Despres are not getting a fair shake from the upper management due to their dislike of his off the ice behavior. Give the kid a shot and see what he can do, don't worry about if he likes to drink in his down time and bang broads. That's what young 20 year olds like to do.
Ah, that depends on how much drinking he's actually doing. There's a fine line between being young and having fun and having a problem. Pouliot is part Inuit so you have to be especially careful there.
I agree. I am not the biggest Pouliot fan only because I felt if he was truly a talent they think he is, he would have pushed more for PT. But.....going into next year, he is exactly what you want/need, a talent on an EL contract. It is time to see what he got. If he makes a mistake, fine, put him back out there. They have done that with Maatta, they need to do this with Pouliot.
Again, the team IMO is set barring Cullen may or may not coming back. You go through the first 2 months and then start assessing where you may need to make adjustments/trades. But it is also time for the Pens to give Pouliot the same latitude they have given Rust, Sheary, Kuhnackl and Maatta. It paid off the past year.
I think the only signing I saw so far that I really would have liked us to make (considering our limited cap) instead of another team was the Caps getting Brett Connolly for 1 year at $850,000. I would have taken that flyer on a guy who can really skate and has some natural talent and then just rolled with Sundqvist and Porter. Obviously there is a lot more RW depth, so a real value pick up like that at LW would be a better find, but that was a signing I thought was really smart and potentially helps the Caps compete with us a little bit better.
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