OT: Interesting piece on U. of Alabama becoming a national university and

[thebadby2]

working to elevate its prestige. A lot of interesting insights as to the changing state of higher education and competition for students nationwide. Caught my eye because a couple of colleagues of mine here in Michigan recently sent their kids to Bama. The kids were superstar H.S. students from two of the most exclusive private schools in metro Detroit. These are kids that would ordinarily end up at a top 15 university, I wondered why the hell they chose Bama. http://nyti.ms/2ehaRkm

Good read: http://nyti.ms/2ehaRkm

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

Bama has many things to be proud of and the nation is just learning about how it has been far more than just Football.

 

[michnittlion]

The thing is --- what exactly is the University of Alabama's CORE mission? Why exactly does the University exist in the first place?

I'd argue that it is to provide a quality, affordable education to the citizens of the state of Alabama. It's nice to try to raise the national profile, but the above should seem to come first. State of Alabama citizens should get priority in the admissions process, even if students from other states are better.

Unfortunately, Alabama has a pretty poor secondary education system. So there's a disconnect in the above.

This is a partial reason why I don't rag on the academics of schools like WVU, or a Wayne State University in Detroit (where I got my masters degree - WSU has a good graduate school but the undergrad program does bring on a lot of students from urban Detroit, which has a struggling secondary education system as well). Schools have different missions, and they shouldn't forget what those missions are in the pursuit of $ and students.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

The prestigious World Campus

 

[CrazyPaco]

Alabama has been plowing money into merit aid and National Merit Scholarships for about a decade now. It has improved, but is still very far behind the "peers" it mentions in that article. It isn't anywhere near being a peer to Michigan, Berkeley, and UVA. It will always be a victim of the major research complex in the state system being located in Birmingham. But you see a lot of good students going there for their merit/national merit scholar awards...but there isn't a lot of depth to their incoming classes. But, parents and counselors are well aware of their generous and abundant merit awards so it definitely has a reputation of a place a good student can go to and receive a bunch of financial help.

In any case, I personally think Pitt can't figure out what it wants to be at the undergrad level. It wants to be a national player, and certainly is in grad-research where it is at an international level, but can't quite figure out what it wants to do with the undergrad level where its focus shifts too often. It's been treading water for a while now and when you tread water, you get passed up. But Pitt absolutely cannot rely on being a regional/local school anymore. There just aren't enough PA students.

 

[Jpripper88]

Alabama has been plowing money into merit aid and National Merit Scholarships for about a decade now. It has improved, but is still very far behind the "peers" it mentions in that article. It isn't anywhere near being a peer to Michigan, Berkeley, and UVA. It will always be a victim of the major research complex in the state system being located in Birmingham. But you see a lot of good students going there for their merit/national merit scholar awards...but there isn't a lot of depth to their incoming classes. But, parents and counselors are well aware of their generous and abundant merit awards so it definitely has a reputation of a place a good student can go to and receive a bunch of financial help.

In any case, I personally think Pitt can't figure out what it wants to be at the undergrad level. It wants to be a national player, and certainly is in grad-research where it is at an international level, but can't quite figure out what it wants to do with the undergrad level where its focus shifts too often. It's been treading water for a while now and when you tread water, you get passed up. But Pitt absolutely cannot rely on being a regional/local school anymore. There just aren't enough PA students.

Alabama is and has been doing what a lot of other similar state Universities are doing: Creating two classes of students with an Honors program and then a general student population, which is, certainly, much improved, but still well, well short of the trio mentioned. However, Alabama has greatly benefitted from the Georgia and Tennessee free state tuition programs to recruit and matriculate very good students who are left out by schools like GT and UGA and would instead have to attend schools like Georgia Southern before hoping to transfer up. Many are privileged and willing to pay full OOS tuition to attend a beautiful southern school with the full SEC college town experience, rather than attend a second rate school for free. All they do is trade in the Bulldogs for the Tide and fill their closet with a darker shade of red.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

In any case, I personally think Pitt can't figure out what it wants to be at the undergrad level. It wants to be a national player, and certainly is in grad-research where it is at an international level, but can't quite figure out what it wants to do with the undergrad level where its focus shifts too often. It's been treading water for a while now and when you tread water, you get passed up. But Pitt absolutely cannot rely on being a regional/local school anymore. There just aren't enough PA students.

Paco, do you think that the opening of the new School of Computing and Information is a not-so-subtle clue as to the direction that Pitt is headed?

I can't help thinking that being next door to CMU can't help but influence Pitt in a positive way and make Pitt more like CMU in the sciences. I see Pitt becoming even more techno- and biomedical -- and less "liberal arts" -- since that's where the money is.

What's your opinion?

 

[CrazyPaco]

Paco, do you think that the opening of the new School of Computing and Information is a not-so-subtle clue as to the direction that Pitt is headed?

I can't help thinking that being next door to CMU can't help but influence Pitt in a positive way and make Pitt more like CMU in the sciences. I see Pitt becoming even more techno- and biomedical -- and less "liberal arts" -- since that's where the money is.

What's your opinion?

Yes, I haven't had time to break down the new CMUP rankings and was going to get into this very thing.

Speaking on the research/graduate level, Pitt has most of its eggs in the biomedical sciences basket. It is its forte and it is one of the best research centers for biomedical/health sciences in the world. That is not hyperbole.

But like anything else, diversification is a key to future proofing, and funding in the health sciences is not getting easier. You only have to look at Swanson to see that Pitt has been putting more money into the hard sciences after letting them drift for decades. That was partly because the money has been (and still is) in biomedical sciences, enhanced at Pitt with the unrivaled success of spinning off the med center, but Pitt has more opportunity to make gains in other areas now because you really can't do a whole lot better in health science than what Pitt is doing now.

Now consider the neighboring resources. UPMC, which has unique strengths in the size of its clinical network, diving into big data and personalized medicine which relies on big data. UPMC is at the very forefront of this. Next door you have CMU at the forefront of all manner of fields in computer science. Pitt itself has one of the top Information Science schools in the nation, which grew out of library sciences, but as a field has been merging with computer sciences in a lot of ways. So it makes tremendous sense for Pitt consolidate its very real strength in information sciences with its relatively afterthought comp sci department which has languished in the Dietrich school. This is a really nice move for Pitt and I'm sure the goal is take advantage of the internal and external resources around Pitt and try to build something that is more than just additive, but synergistic with the existing resources in the university and city. And that is a win-win for everyone....to make an even stronger consolidation of high tech power in Pittsburgh.

Gallagher was brought in from NIST exactly for this reason, to seize opportunities in scientific areas with great growth potential, and so far the direction looks good and is building well on existing foundations.

I don't think that means Pitt will abandon the liberal arts though. But there is more opportunity for big gains in computer and information science in Pittsburgh.

 

[JamesDeLeon]

Bama has many things to be proud of and the nation is just learning about how it has been far more than just Football.

When I worked as a college prep counselor at a prestigious high school in Houston, I was amazed that Penn State was so active recruiting. The Nitters sent reps to the school and pursued top flight students.

Pitt, on the other hand, did nothing. Even after contacting them several times I was left with "We'll look into the travel budget."

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

When I worked as a college prep counselor at a prestigious high school in Houston, I was amazed that Penn State was so active recruiting. The Nitters sent reps to the school and pursued top flight students.

Outside the Rust Belt, Penn State gets confused with the University of Pennsylvania. Those people think they're going Ivy..

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

When I worked as a college prep counselor at a prestigious high school in Houston, I was amazed that Penn State was so active recruiting. The Nitters sent reps to the school and pursued top flight students.

Pitt, on the other hand, did nothing. Even after contacting them several times I was left with "We'll look into the travel budget."

Thank you for that confirmation and your input. No question Pitt lacked the resources and had different priorities and fell behind Football Programs.

I do not make excuses for Pitt Sins in failing to promote the Program. I put that squarely on Pitt!

However, Pitt is now in the ACC with ACC Budgets and Money that it did not have since 2013, so I expect Pitt to fix it! I am confident they have the right Head Coach, not so sure about Athletic director anymore?

I don't discount your experience either, but I do know most of Penn State Targets came from One day Drive to Penn State, not so much from Houston or even Florida. Jay Paterno told us himself at a PSU dinner as group, getting to PSU by Plane requires 3 to 4 Stop Overs and no direct flights, so they stick to One Day Auto drive from PSU!

Any thoughts on that from your experience to share on the Lair? Also, how many Houston Recruits did you know end up at PSU during your tenure?

Thanks ahead of your answers!

 

[CrazyPaco]

When I worked as a college prep counselor at a prestigious high school in Houston, I was amazed that Penn State was so active recruiting. The Nitters sent reps to the school and pursued top flight students.

Pitt, on the other hand, did nothing. Even after contacting them several times I was left with "We'll look into the travel budget."

Pitt relied on alumni volunteers to staff college fairs for the longest time and they ran that through the alumni association. I did many in the several years I lived in South Florida. Many volunteers were years removed from knowing anything near enough about the current state of the university and were surrounded by tables of professional recruiters (to be fair, other schools also used volunteers too). Pitt (OAFA) now has a few professional professionals that travel, so it is getting better, but Pitt has not been flush with money like the typical urban myth that is bandied about from time to time. People forget how bad of shape the entire university, not just the athletic department, was in circa 1996. It's been a long, remarkable climb out of that hole.

 

[CorsosRevenge]

Ahh, the J Dennis O'Boner years. Sweet office though.

 

[Jpripper88]

Thank you for that confirmation and your input. No question Pitt lacked the resources and had different priorities and fell behind Football Programs.

I do not make excuses for Pitt Sins in failing to promote the Program. I put that squarely on Pitt!

However, Pitt is now in the ACC with ACC Budgets and Money that it did not have since 2013, so I expect Pitt to fix it! I am confident they have the right Head Coach, not so sure about Athletic director anymore?

I don't discount your experience either, but I do know most of Penn State Targets came from One day Drive to Penn State, not so much from Houston or even Florida. Jay Paterno told us himself at a PSU dinner as group, getting to PSU by Plane requires 3 to 4 Stop Overs and no direct flights, so they stick to One Day Auto drive from PSU!

Any thoughts on that from your experience to share on the Lair? Also, how many Houston Recruits did you know end up at PSU during your tenure?

Thanks ahead of your answers!

He is talking about students, not athletes.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

He is talking about students, not athletes.

Thanks, still, I would like to know how many of the Students he knew about went to Penn State?

As well as, I think Athletes are Students first, but he said Pitt told him they had no Travel Budget for it when he called them? Nothing wrong looking into it now.

 

[Jpripper88]

Thanks, still, I would like to know how many of the Students he knew about went to Penn State?

As well as, I think Athletes are Students first, but he said Pitt told him they had no Travel Budget for it when he called them? Nothing wrong looking into it now.

For recruiting students, not athletes. Most of these football players are barely students.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

For recruiting students, not athletes. Most of these football players are barely students.

I know, but it also cited how Alabama as i posted earlier months ago, has more Out Of State and Higher Tuition Students than Lower Resident In State Students due to Saban Success but few know Alabama has always been a great Academic & Research University and still many attack them. Thanks Again!

 

[CrazyPaco]

Paco, do you think that the opening of the new School of Computing and Information is a not-so-subtle clue as to the direction that Pitt is headed?

I can't help thinking that being next door to CMU can't help but influence Pitt in a positive way and make Pitt more like CMU in the sciences. I see Pitt becoming even more techno- and biomedical -- and less "liberal arts" -- since that's where the money is.

What's your opinion?

In case you didn't see it, here's a short video about where they are going with the new school:

 

[Panther Parrothead]

In case you didn't see it, here's a short video about where they are going with the new school:

View embedded media

Good stuff, Paco. Thanks for posting this.