OT- MELANCON
- Thread starter CaPAPITT76
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That is incredibly stupid by the Giants. That contract will be an albatross on the payroll by the end of the 2nd year. He has already lost velocity and his K rate is dropping. Bad move, IMO
It's what baseball is and has been for the past 10 years. Did you see what a 39 year old Carlos Beltran signed for? And we got Nutting not being able to afford Cutch's contract. Hahahahahahaha
Why doesn't Nutting go the route that the Steelers and Penguins have and add more investors to the team if he can't afford to compete?
Why doesn't Nutting go the route that the Steelers and Penguins have and add more investors to the team if he can't afford to compete?
Healthy closers usually log around 70 innings per year, so over $200k per inning.
It is about ROI. No one is cutting a check to lose money. The budget is determined by the revenue produced. Some teams believe in investing to potentially grow revenue. Others are fine with the current earnings and not risking money to chase increased revenue and profits.
Nutting can afford to spend more, but not as much as some fans would like him to. No owner should be expected to operate at a loss.. The NFL has a salary cap, and much more significant revenue sharing. You almost can't lose money in the NFL. The question with Cutch is not getting rid of him, it's how much will they get back. They need to get a major league ready guy who will be a solid contributor, plus a major prospect. Bottom half markets just can't give big money to guys over 30. Even the Cardinals had to let Pujols walk, which has turned out to be a great move.
The union will never agree to a cap, plus a cap doesn't work without true revenue sharing.
True, but a $16M one-year bridge with Beltran is a bit different than $62M for the largest closer contract ever (until Chapman signs). If he performs at his current level all 4 years, then it's a good buy for the Giants. The precedent fdoesn't suggest that is too likely to happen. The ageless Mariano Rivera-types are hugely rare. K-Rod easily seems to be the best of the few 'old' closers in the game right now (34) and even he has had some roller coaster years since he turned 30.
By extrapolation, that must mean Chapman will go for $100 Million for four years with about $60 million guaranteed?
The Giants have opened Pandora's box. Insane.
The Giants have opened Pandora's box. Insane.
There are many things wrong with baseball finances at least from a competitive balance point of view. But this is the major one imo that really kills the small market teams. A small market team cannot risk paying huge money to a guy that does not live up to his contract. They can't dump him in year 3 of a 6 year deal if he isn't producing and move on from there, they need to pick up the contract if no other team does. That is insane to pay someone who isn't even working for you. If us common folk got fired we would probably get a severance package that is 3 months so 25% of a year. Yet a ball player gets 100% of however many years they have left? Crazy.
Teams like the Yanks, Boston, Cubs, LA can afford that. Teams like the Pirates, Rockies, A's cannot. That needs changed more than a Salary Cap.
Cause most "investors" would like to see a great return on the their investment. I don't know all the economics of baseball, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that the Bucco's could get enough return on their investment in payroll to make it worth it to bring in an investor. In other words, I'm not sure that paying a Mark Melancon $15 million a year generates more than $15 million dollars in revenue. I'd guess that a top closer wouldn't pay for himself in Pittsburgh. And getting player to pay for themselves is truly what moneyball is all about.
that's probably the best life-style of any sports player. Outside of golf that is.. Actually, I'd take a starting pitcher life style. You know when you will pitch and more importantly, know when you wont. So basically you work one day a week for 7 months. Just chill on the bench 6 days a week. Roger Clemens had it the best when he worked it out that he didn't even have to travel with the team on road trips that he wasn't pitching..
Baseball is the way to go for sure. These football players play for 5-6 seasons and spend their 40's in a dark room, void of light and noise to avoid headaches. These baseball players have a career three times as long, can walk when they are in their 40's and have a working brain...
there will never a salary cap cause the big markets won't equally share their local TV money with the little guys. Rather pay the luxury tax.
Not sure why you quoted me, i was not arguing for a Salary Cap, I was arguing that MLB needs to get rid of the guarantee contract. That kills small market teams more than a salary cap imo.
You could write a contract that is just full of opt-outs and club options, but nobody is going to sign it.
Because the JA doesn't want to cede any control over the management of the franchise and he wants Pirate fans to suffer! He's a bum!
Ahhhhh took almost a full two days since nutting was first mentioned in this thread for del to come and remind everyone how much he hates him.
I was a little slow on the draw on this particular occasion. My apologies to all!
Correct if 1 or 2 out of 30 teams did that you are correct no one would sign that. If all 30 teams stood together and stated they were no longer paying guarantee contracts, then the players would sign it. It will not happen because the big markets like it because they could afford it.
I really don't think its such a big issue as you make it sound. Most small market teams aren't offering 10-year deals and I'm sure there's some amount of insurance hedging in injury situations.
Why doesn't Nutting go the route that the Steelers and Penguins have and add more investors to the team if he can't afford to compete?
Nutting has done just the opposite. His dad was an investor in the group McClatchy formed to buy the team. The Nutting family then slowly picked off smaller investors one by one over the years until its stake surpassed McClatchy, allowing the takeover power play. Nutting can afford to compete at a much higher level. He just choses not to.
Say what you want about the Yankees (I'm a life long fan) and the other big spenders, but those teams plow all their revenues back into their teams in an effort to put competitive products on the field for their fans. The real money for those owners is in franchise appreciation over time. Those are huge dollars. Those owners don't worry about banking money from revenues on a year-to-year basis. They are in it to win. Their big payday comes when they decide to sell.
Nutting, on the other hand, has a current bottom line priority that far surpasses any desire to win a World Series. As a smaller revenue owner, he takes money from the high revenue owners and stuffs it in his pocket rather than spend it (as intended) on the extra bat or arm that could have put the Pirates over the top a couple years back. He takes a seven-figure salary for himself rather than invest in a solid player. He gives away assets as part of a Liriano trade that was made to dump salary. Did he reinvest the saved salary in other players. Nope, it went in his bank account.
I'm a big baseball fan and would love to see the Pirates in the World Series again. But my personal belief is Nutting is playing the Pirate fans as fools while laughing all the way to the bank. As long as fans keep flocking to PNC, he's never going to change his "personal" winning formula. In that way, he is one of the worst owners in professional sports. If I was a Bucs fan in Pittsburgh, I would not buy another ticket as long as his family controls the team.
Nutting has done just the opposite. His dad was an investor in the group McClatchy formed to buy the team. The Nutting family then slowly picked off smaller investors one by one over the years until its stake surpassed McClatchy, allowing the takeover power play. Nutting can afford to compete at a much higher level. He just choses not to.
Say what you want about the Yankees (I'm a life long fan) and the other big spenders, but those teams plow all their revenues back into their teams in an effort to put competitive products on the field for their fans. The real money for those owners is in franchise appreciation over time. Those are huge dollars. Those owners don't worry about banking money from revenues on a year-to-year basis. They are in it to win. Their big payday comes when they decide to sell.
Nutting, on the other hand, has a current bottom line priority that far surpasses any desire to win a World Series. As a smaller revenue owner, he takes money from the high revenue owners and stuffs it in his pocket rather than spend it (as intended) on the extra bat or arm that could have put the Pirates over the top a couple years back. He takes a seven-figure salary for himself rather than invest in a solid player. He gives away assets as part of a Liriano trade that was made to dump salary. Did he reinvest the saved salary in other players. Nope, it went in his bank account.
I'm a big baseball fan and would love to see the Pirates in the World Series again. But my personal belief is Nutting is playing the Pirate fans as fools while laughing all the way to the bank. As long as fans keep flocking to PNC, he's never going to change his "personal" winning formula. In that way, he is one of the worst owners in professional sports. If I was a Bucs fan in Pittsburgh, I would not buy another ticket as long as his family controls the team.
Exactly. They don't do it because it is too risky. The Big markets can do it. They can pay Cutch in years 4 and 5 based on his performance in year 1 and 2 with 3 being the wild card year. Small market teams cannot take that chance. That is a huge advantage.
There's this thing called collusion that the owners got themselves into big trouble over several years ago.
The only problem with that idea is the fact that it's illegal.
Of course that's kind of a big problem.
The Nuttings always owned more of the team than McClatchy did. ALWAYS, right from day one. The Nuttngs theoretically could have taken over the team from McClatchy at any time they wanted from day one, assuming that the fifth vote on the board would have voted with them. And he almost certainly would have, because it was the Nuttings who brought him to the deal, not McClatchy.
McClatchy was in charge for exactly as long as the Nuttings wanted him to be in charge, and when he was no longer useful to them he was no longer in charge.
While I agree that the big money is in appreciation, the Yankees make money every year. And in fact if you count in their profits from the YES network, which don't show up in the Yankees' books, the Yankees make a ton of money every year. All things considered, they don't even come close to plowing all their revenues back into the team. Not even close.
No it is not illegal, during the negations the owners have to make this one of their demands. The NFL owners did, that is why there players always want a huge signing bonus because that part is guaranteed but not all the years the of the contact. Nothing illegal about it.
Of course that isn't what the original post said, but yeah, the owners could insist on adding that to the contract with the union if they could get most of the owners to agree it was a good thing. And after the strike was over in a few years they might even get it. Probably not, but hey, you never know.
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