OT - Mike Leach

[upj87]

from the "ya either love him or hate him department"

http://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...bs-fans-supports-the-indians-in-world-series/

Put me in the love em category (and that was even before he garnered my adulation for getting called "chickenshit" by Todd Graham for calling him out for stealing signs)

Go Native Americans !!!

 

[pittdan77]

Thought he was in to pirates. Oh well, I can't blame him if he bailed on the ones in Pittsburgh.

 

[Pitt79]

I can relate to his comments. I mean, why would anyone be a Cubs fan unless they grew up in Chicago. I mean historically the Pittsburgh Pirates are a BIG TIME TRADITIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP FRANCHISE compared to that piece of shht franchise. They've won FIVE World Series, since the Cubbies last won one-3 since the Cubbies last appeared in one. Rooting for the Cubs, is like living in Montana and choosing the Lions or the Cardinals as your favorite NFL team! I see no reason, UNLESS YOU LIVE IN CHICAGO, to choose a franchise with a GARBAGE history of constant failure as your favorite team.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

I can relate to his comments. I mean, why would anyone be a Cubs fan unless they grew up in Chicago. I mean historically the Pittsburgh Pirates are a BIG TIME TRADITIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP FRANCHISE compared to that piece of shht franchise. They've won FIVE World Series, since the Cubbies last won one-3 since the Cubbies last appeared in one. Rooting for the Cubs, is like living in Montana and choosing the Lions or the Cardinals as your favorite NFL team! I see no reason, UNLESS YOU LIVE IN CHICAGO, to choose a franchise with a GARBAGE history of constant failure as your favorite team.

WGN had good coverage. When I was a kid, I remember the Cubs day games always on TV and I didn't grow up near Chicago. I was able to watch more Cubs games than any other team, and it was fun when they had Sandberg, Dawson, Grace, ect....I listened to Harry Carry a lot. I ended up living in Chicago and the Cubs are an easy team to enjoy.

This is the first World Series in 10+ years I plan on watching.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

WGN had good coverage. When I was a kid, I remember the Cubs day games always on TV and I didn't grow up near Chicago. I was able to watch more Cubs games than any other team, and it was fun when they had Sandberg, Dawson, Grace, ect....I listened to Harry Carry a lot. I ended up living in Chicago and the Cubs are an easy team to enjoy.

This is the first World Series in 10+ years I plan on watching.

I go back a bit deeper....Ernie Banks, Billy Williams, Ron Santo. Always competitive, but never enough talent from top-to-bottom to make a serious run. I've never been to Wrigley Field, but I'd like to make the trip some day.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I am not sure who to root for, quite frankly?

However, I don't really disagree with Mike Leach here. There do seem to be a ridiculous amount of bandwagon fans with the Cubs.

I had no idea that it was a socioeconomic thing until I was in Chicago a little while ago. I had a taxi driver kind of alert me to the fact.

He basically said that the real baseball fans in Chicago are White Sox fans and that it was his opinion that most Cubs fans were definitely Johnny-come-lately types who liked the atmosphere at Wrigley Field and the uniforms more than the actual team.

His words, not mine.

Anyway, if I didn't have so many friends from Cleveland, I would probably be rooting for the Tribe. However, the way they reacted to the Cavaliers' championship gives me pause. Maybe the world is better when Cleveland isn't winning?

I still think I'm going to read for Cleveland but I'm going to do so with gnashed teeth.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

As for Leach, I don't really have a strong feeling about him either way. I think his offensive genius is overrated, making him a slightly overrated coach.

However, he is still a good coach and he still has a good offensive mind.

I just think people are too charitable towards him and his eccentricities.

For me, I enjoy listening to him talk. I think he's obviously a thoughtful and very intelligent guy with an interesting worldview.

Would I want him coaching my team? Oh, goodness no! I wouldn't want him anywhere around Pittsburgh. He would be an atrocious fit here. However, I am glad he's still in the game.

 

[upj87]

I go back a bit deeper....Ernie Banks, Billy Williams, Ron Santo. Always competitive, but never enough talent from top-to-bottom to make a serious run. I've never been to Wrigley Field, but I'd like to make the trip some day.

The thing no one seems to realize the thing that makes the Cubs tre-chique to the IPA sipping yupsters of the world is the uniqueness of being lovable losers..Once that is gone, they will not give two craps about the Cubs anymore... The BoSox are just another run of the mill baseball organization nowadays.

 

[Panther Holla]

I go back a bit deeper....Ernie Banks, Billy Williams, Ron Santo. Always competitive, but never enough talent from top-to-bottom to make a serious run. I've never been to Wrigley Field, but I'd like to make the trip some day.

I have hated the Cubs since the 60s when every Pirates foray into that vine-ridden hell hole of a ballpark ended in disaster. Leo Durocher. Ron Santo. Bleacher Bums. To hell with all of them and long live whatever curses can vex the Cubs this October. Now that said, some of my most memorable in-person baseball games involved the Cubbies: Their division clincher at Three Rivers in 1984, a 20-inning Bucs win in 1980, Pittsburgh's division win in 1979, an improbable extra inning slugfest won by the Pirates in the early 90s.

May a black cat cross the Cubs dugout in Cleveland as one did at Shea in the summer of '69.

 

[Panther Holla]

The thing no one seems to realize the thing that makes the Cubs tre-chique to the IPA sipping yupsters of the world is the uniqueness of being lovable losers..Once that is gone, they will not give two craps about the Cubs anymore... The BoSox are just another run of the mill baseball organization nowadays.

Boston fans are S-P-O-I-L-E-D. Count their championships in all sports the past 20 years. Like the nouveau riche they don't handle this wealth all that well like they've been there before, certainly unlike (old money) Yankee fans who take winning in stride.

 

[Pitt79]

WGN had good coverage. When I was a kid, I remember the Cubs day games always on TV and I didn't grow up near Chicago. I was able to watch more Cubs games than any other team, and it was fun when they had Sandberg, Dawson, Grace, ect....I listened to Harry Carry a lot. I ended up living in Chicago and the Cubs are an easy team to enjoy.

This is the first World Series in 10+ years I plan on watching.

" I ended up living in Chicago" OK, I get that.

 

[Pitt79]

I've never been to Wrigley Field, but I'd like to make the trip some day.

I was there for a game once, it was OK, a little cramped, but nice.

 

[Pitt79]

I have hated the Cubs since the 60s when every Pirates foray into that vine-ridden hell hole of a ballpark ended in disaster. Leo Durocher. Ron Santo. Bleacher Bums. To hell with all of them and long live whatever curses can vex the Cubs this October. Now that said, some of my most memorable in-person baseball games involved the Cubbies: Their division clincher at Three Rivers in 1984, a 20-inning Bucs win in 1980, Pittsburgh's division win in 1979, an improbable extra inning slugfest won by the Pirates in the early 90s.

May a black cat cross the Cubs dugout in Cleveland as one did at Shea in the summer of '69.

Hey, I was at the 20 inning game in 1980, stayed to the end.

 

[Pitt79]

For me, I don't care, the positive about a Cubs win is that they won't be talked about as much anymore! But when I saw all the people crying at Wrigley as they mmade the World series, it might be fuc to see them cry about a loss next LOL

 

[Panther Parrothead]

I was there for a game once, it was OK, a little cramped, but nice.

One of my sons travels a lot for his work. It's provided him the opportunity to watch baseball in most of the MLB parks across the country.

Okay......I'm jealous.

 

[Pitt79]

One of my sons travels a lot for his work. It's provided him the opportunity to watch baseball in most of the MLB parks across the country.

Okay......I'm jealous.

What was most odd was the bleachers on the roof tops across the street.

 

[wbrpanther]

I go back a bit deeper....Ernie Banks, Billy Williams, Ron Santo. Always competitive, but never enough talent from top-to-bottom to make a serious run. I've never been to Wrigley Field, but I'd like to make the trip some day.

I still have no idea how the Mets beat them out in '69. That was a great Cubs team. The Pirates couldn't get Billy Williams out. But the Cubs have always seemed to put together a good core then couldn't get it done over a half dozen years then started sucking again. It looks like it is different this time bit it wouldn't surprise me if they fail again.

 

[wbrpanther]

What was most odd was the bleachers on the roof tops across the street.

Actually back in the day when ballparks were smack dab in the middle of the city there were quite a few places where fans would watch games from rooftops. Not unique to Wrigley at one time.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

I still have no idea how the Mets beat them out in '69. That was a great Cubs team. The Pirates couldn't get Billy Williams out. But the Cubs have always seemed to put together a good core then couldn't get it done over a half dozen years then started sucking again. It looks like it is different this time bit it wouldn't surprise me if they fail again.

If you recall, that was a Mets team that could do no wrong. To use a cliche, they could fall into a cesspool and come-out smelling like a rose.

They had just enough (timely) hitting to win the close games, and with Seaver & Koosman in their starting rotation, and Tug McGraw & a young Nolan Ryan in the bullpen, they had a lot of close games.

And I remember their outfielders making plays that they never would've dreamed of making in other seasons. They beat the Bucs in some heartbreakers that year.

 

[wbrpanther]

If you recall, that was a Mets team that could do no wrong. To use a cliche, they could fall into a cesspool and come-out smelling like a rose.

They had just enough (timely) hitting to win the close games, and with Seaver & Koosman in their starting rotation, and Tug McGraw & a young Nolan Ryan in the bullpen, they had a lot of close games.

And I remember their outfielders making plays that they never would've dreamed of making in other seasons. They beat the Bucs in some heartbreakers that year.

Yep. The Miracle Mets. Bob Moose no hit them one saturday in September.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

Yep. The Miracle Mets. Bob Moose no hit them one saturday in September.

I remember a back-breaking doubleheader in September of '69, but I had to look-up the details to get them correct: the Mets were ridiculous in those two games: they won both ends of the doubleheader when their two starting pitchers—Jerry Koosman and Don Cardwell — pitched 1-0 shutouts. And adding insult to injury, the pitchers got the winning RBI in both games.

 

[load1079]

I am not sure who to root for, quite frankly?

However, I don't really disagree with Mike Leach here. There do seem to be a ridiculous amount of bandwagon fans with the Cubs.

I had no idea that it was a socioeconomic thing until I was in Chicago a little while ago. I had a taxi driver kind of alert me to the fact.

He basically said that the real baseball fans in Chicago are White Sox fans and that it was his opinion that most Cubs fans were definitely Johnny-come-lately types who liked the atmosphere at Wrigley Field and the uniforms more than the actual team.

His words, not mine.

Anyway, if I didn't have so many friends from Cleveland, I would probably be rooting for the Tribe. However, the way they reacted to the Cavaliers' championship gives me pause. Maybe the world is better when Cleveland isn't winning?

I still think I'm going to read for Cleveland but I'm going to do so with gnashed teeth.

As someone who's lived in Chicago for the last 12 years, I feel like I have to weigh in on your cab driver's opinion. He's sort of right...

The Cubs absolutely have an enormous and loyal fan base rivaling any team in baseball save for maybe the Yankess. The city may explode if they win the world series because they are absolutely the #1 team in the town regardless of how many restaurants Mike Ditka opens.

However, the true blue Cubs fans, in my experience, don't live in Wrigleyville, Lincoln Park, Gold Coast, Wicker Park, etc - the trendy, upscale neighborhoods in the city. The real, life-long Cubs fans live in the more blue collar neighborhoods in the North and West, and a ton live in the suburbs (where I moved two years ago). These people eat, breath, sleep Cubs and have their entire life. I respect them, but I find many of the Cubs fans who are actually at the games obnoxious.

What bugs me about Cubs fans and is the #1 reason why I could never get behind them no matter how long I live here (besides my undying loyalty to all things Pittsburgh), is what Dr's Cabbie described.

Every Big Ten/MAC/Big 12 frat boy graduate who moves to Chicago after college likes the Cubs because it's the thing to do. A social event. Go to a regular season game on a Friday afternoon and sit in the bleachers. 70% of the people aren't even watching the games. They are just drinking and having fun. I've done this countless times, mainly because it is indeed a lot of fun - but I never root for the Cubs when I do it. That's what bugs me. These people don't care about the game, they care about a good time. They might have been Reds fans, Tigers fans, Twins fans - but because they live in Wrigleyville when they are 25 they now like the Cubs. It's a similar phenomenon to what happens in Boston where the New England college grads all move to Boston and like the Red Sox.

I respect fans who are loyal no matter where they live and don't change loyalties over the years. White Sox fans are loyal, there just aren't many of them compared to Cubs "fans" especially if you're someplace that isn't south of the city. Make no mistake the Cubs have a massive fan base. They're just not always the people you meet in and around the stadium. I'm sure some of the yuppie fans do grow to really love the Cubs, but they buy that first jersey and start drinking Old Style because it's a fun way to spend a summer day, not because they grew up loving the Cubs.

Despite my ties to the city and my countless true Cubs fans, I could not be rooting any harder for Cleveland. Weird to type "rooting for Cleveland."

 

[upj87]

As someone who's lived in Chicago for the last 12 years, I feel like I have to weigh in on your cab driver's opinion. He's sort of right...

The Cubs absolutely have an enormous and loyal fan base rivaling any team in baseball save for maybe the Yankess. The city may explode if they win the world series because they are absolutely the #1 team in the town regardless of how many restaurants Mike Ditka opens.

However, the true blue Cubs fans, in my experience, don't live in Wrigleyville, Lincoln Park, Gold Coast, Wicker Park, etc - the trendy, upscale neighborhoods in the city. The real, life-long Cubs fans live in the more blue collar neighborhoods in the North and West, and a ton live in the suburbs (where I moved two years ago). These people eat, breath, sleep Cubs and have their entire life. I respect them, but I find many of the Cubs fans who are actually at the games obnoxious.

What bugs me about Cubs fans and is the #1 reason why I could never get behind them no matter how long I live here (besides my undying loyalty to all things Pittsburgh), is what Dr's Cabbie described.

Every Big Ten/MAC/Big 12 frat boy graduate who moves to Chicago after college likes the Cubs because it's the thing to do. A social event. Go to a regular season game on a Friday afternoon and sit in the bleachers. 70% of the people aren't even watching the games. They are just drinking and having fun. I've done this countless times, mainly because it is indeed a lot of fun - but I never root for the Cubs when I do it. That's what bugs me. These people don't care about the game, they care about a good time. They might have been Reds fans, Tigers fans, Twins fans - but because they live in Wrigleyville when they are 25 they now like the Cubs. It's a similar phenomenon to what happens in Boston where the New England college grads all move to Boston and like the Red Sox.

I respect fans who are loyal no matter where they live and don't change loyalties over the years. White Sox fans are loyal, there just aren't many of them compared to Cubs "fans" especially if you're someplace that isn't south of the city. Make no mistake the Cubs have a massive fan base. They're just not always the people you meet in and around the stadium. I'm sure some of the yuppie fans do grow to really love the Cubs, but they buy that first jersey and start drinking Old Style because it's a fun way to spend a summer day, not because they grew up loving the Cubs.

Despite my ties to the city and my countless true Cubs fans, I could not be rooting any harder for Cleveland. Weird to type "rooting for Cleveland."

In other words, Leach is spot on....

 

[Parkview57]

Hey, I was at the 20 inning game in 1980, stayed to the end

Me too.

 

[PittPanthers90]

Gotta root for the Cubbies.

No self respecting yinzer or fan of Pittsburgh sports should EVER root for "The Mistake by the Lake"

 

[CorsosRevenge]

As for Leach, I don't really have a strong feeling about him either way. I think his offensive genius is overrated, making him a slightly overrated coach.

However, he is still a good coach and he still has a good offensive mind.

I just think people are too charitable towards him and his eccentricities.

For me, I enjoy listening to him talk. I think it's a thoughtful and very intelligent guy with an interesting worldview.

Would I want him coaching my team? Oh, goodness no! I wouldn't want him anywhere around Pittsburgh. He would be an atrocious fit here. However, I am glad he's still in the game.

We would be a top 25 program had they hired him and no Godd Graham. As usual, the previous regime had no balls and even less vision.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

That's an easy thing to say but who knows? I think he would've struggled in this market and at that university – which, if you haven't noticed, is pretty conservative.

I think the things that he says that are considered quirky and charming at outposts like Lubbock and the Palouse would land him in a lot of hot water in a pro market like this one.

Like Todd Graham before him, I think he would be an amazingly horrendous fit for the culture that exists here. Again though, without seeing it up close, like you, I am only speculating.

 

[HailToPitt71]

I am not sure who to root for, quite frankly?

However, I don't really disagree with Mike Leach here. There do seem to be a ridiculous amount of bandwagon fans with the Cubs.

I had no idea that it was a socioeconomic thing until I was in Chicago a little while ago. I had a taxi driver kind of alert me to the fact.

He basically said that the real baseball fans in Chicago are White Sox fans and that it was his opinion that most Cubs fans were definitely Johnny-come-lately types who liked the atmosphere at Wrigley Field and the uniforms more than the actual team.

His words, not mine.

Anyway, if I didn't have so many friends from Cleveland, I would probably be rooting for the Tribe. However, the way they reacted to the Cavaliers' championship gives me pause. Maybe the world is better when Cleveland isn't winning?

I still think I'm going to read for Cleveland but I'm going to do so with gnashed teeth.

I think I'm going to root for the Indians. When I was younger I had a 23 inch black and white TV in my bedroom. I used the UHF channel and watch a lot of WUAB 43. I took a liking to Andre Thornton and the Indians.

 

[thebadby2]

I was there for a game once, it was OK, a little cramped, but nice.

Been there many times and It WAS the best baseball environment I've ever seen. The current ownership has done its best to ruin it, although they've also built a World Series team.

 

[pitt-girl]

As someone who's lived in Chicago for the last 12 years, I feel like I have to weigh in on your cab driver's opinion. He's sort of right...

The Cubs absolutely have an enormous and loyal fan base rivaling any team in baseball save for maybe the Yankess. The city may explode if they win the world series because they are absolutely the #1 team in the town regardless of how many restaurants Mike Ditka opens.

However, the true blue Cubs fans, in my experience, don't live in Wrigleyville, Lincoln Park, Gold Coast, Wicker Park, etc - the trendy, upscale neighborhoods in the city. The real, life-long Cubs fans live in the more blue collar neighborhoods in the North and West, and a ton live in the suburbs (where I moved two years ago). These people eat, breath, sleep Cubs and have their entire life. I respect them, but I find many of the Cubs fans who are actually at the games obnoxious.

What bugs me about Cubs fans and is the #1 reason why I could never get behind them no matter how long I live here (besides my undying loyalty to all things Pittsburgh), is what Dr's Cabbie described.

Every Big Ten/MAC/Big 12 frat boy graduate who moves to Chicago after college likes the Cubs because it's the thing to do. A social event. Go to a regular season game on a Friday afternoon and sit in the bleachers. 70% of the people aren't even watching the games. They are just drinking and having fun. I've done this countless times, mainly because it is indeed a lot of fun - but I never root for the Cubs when I do it. That's what bugs me. These people don't care about the game, they care about a good time. They might have been Reds fans, Tigers fans, Twins fans - but because they live in Wrigleyville when they are 25 they now like the Cubs. It's a similar phenomenon to what happens in Boston where the New England college grads all move to Boston and like the Red Sox.

I respect fans who are loyal no matter where they live and don't change loyalties over the years. White Sox fans are loyal, there just aren't many of them compared to Cubs "fans" especially if you're someplace that isn't south of the city. Make no mistake the Cubs have a massive fan base. They're just not always the people you meet in and around the stadium. I'm sure some of the yuppie fans do grow to really love the Cubs, but they buy that first jersey and start drinking Old Style because it's a fun way to spend a summer day, not because they grew up loving the Cubs.

Despite my ties to the city and my countless true Cubs fans, I could not be rooting any harder for Cleveland. Weird to type "rooting for Cleveland."

Well, I'm living with a man who definitely breaks your mold of a Cubs fan. He lives and breathes Cubs baseball even though he's lived here for 25+ years.

Having said that, the one thing I hate most about MLB is the lack of a salary cap. I feel no pity towards the Cubs and their lack of success given how much money is pumped annually into the organization.

 

[OriginalEther]

We would be a top 25 program had they hired him and no Godd Graham. As usual, the previous regime had no balls and even less vision.

Something tells me dvy is ultimately right on this one.

I mean, some people thought Todd Graham was too harsh on Sal's kid...what would Leach have done?

 

[upj87]

Gotta root for the Cubbies.

No self respecting yinzer or fan of Pittsburgh sports should EVER root for "The Mistake by the Lake"

why is that? Not really that big of rivalry with the Browns. Baseball in different leagues. No hockey in Cleveland, Not NBA in Pittsburgh. No longer a streak of the city not winning anything to root for.


Go Native Americans!

 

[Pitt79]

The Cubs absolutely have an enormous and loyal fan base rivaling any team in baseball save for maybe the Yankess.

I get it if you live there, even as a transplant, and HAVE FUN going to games, etc. But what is the draw for people who live outside Chicago and never lived there? I totally get why I live in Baltimore and know people who are lifelong Steelers fans and have never been to Pittsburgh, or even Yankees fans who have never been to NY, THAT MAKES SENSE, those teams have been traditionally, dominant multiple time champions. But what's the draw for a team that has been mostly pathetic and hasn't even been to the championship round in 71 years?

 

[Pitt79]

why is that? Not really that big of rivalry with the Browns. Baseball in different leagues. No hockey in Cleveland, Not NBA in Pittsburgh. No longer a streak of the city not winning anything to root for.


Go Native Americans!

Right, I always hated the Browns, but always neutral to the Tribe (different leagues) and always considered the Cavs my 2nd favorite NBA team (after the Bulls), we never had pro basketball anyways, after the ABA folded. I say Go Tribe.

 

[load1079]

I get it if you live there, even as a transplant, and HAVE FUN going to games, etc. But what is the draw for people who live outside Chicago and never lived there? I totally get why I live in Baltimore and know people who are lifelong Steelers fans and have never been to Pittsburgh, or even Yankees fans who have never been to NY, THAT MAKES SENSE, those teams have been traditionally, dominant multiple time champions. But what's the draw for a team that has been mostly pathetic and hasn't even been to the championship round in 71 years?

I think a lot of it has to do with WGN. Growing up in Pittsburgh I remember being able to watch a ton of Cubs games. If you're from Iowa, Nebraska, Indiana, Kentucky - states without professional sports and you can watch Cubs games through your cable box, I can see why they would have a wide reaching fan base.

However, this also suggests the Atlanta Braves should have a large fan base and they don't. I just debunked my own theory. Crap.

 

[CorsosRevenge]

That's an easy thing to say but who knows? I think he would've struggled in this market and at that university – which, if you haven't noticed, is pretty conservative.

I think the things that he says that are considered quirky and charming at outposts like Lubbock and the Palouse would land him in a lot of hot water in a pro market like this one.

Like Todd Graham before him, I think he would be an amazingly horrendous fit for the culture that exists here. Again though, without seeing it up close, like you, I am only speculating.

You realize Washington State might be the only school that gets less in donations than use and he won nine games there last year and is undefeated in conference play currently, right? Mike Leach did what Pitt couldn't last year - beat Miami.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Yeah, I do realize that. I also know that he has lost to FCS teams in each of the last two years (Portland State last year and Eastern Washington this year) and has never won a single conference title. Also, five years in, he remains just 26–31 at Wazzu. He did win his division once during his 17-year head coaching career so there is that.

That's the deal with Leach – there's always as much bad to go along with the good.

He has also accused the local police of racism and he has openly criticized his own fans for their lack of support - and that is just within the past two months. How do you think that would go over in Pittsburgh? I suspect not very well.

I get that the guy has supporters but I'm telling you from my perspective I think he's overrated. That doesn't mean I think is a bad coach. In fact, I think he's a good coach...in the right situation. I think he'd be a horrific fit at Pitt.