ADVERTISEMENT

OT: MLS

Fk_Pitt

Lair Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Dec 3, 2007
50,877
38,276
113
Well, we’ve reached the time of year when televised sports options become more scarce. I just watched a Serie A and watched a Juventus player give his entire kit away after the match and walk off the field in his bikini underwear. Not used to see that.

now I’ve turned on an MLS match between Portland and LA. I’ve always known Portland has pretty good atmosphere for their matches, but it struck me that I don’t see one American on the field for them. Is this common in MLS? Other domestic leagues have rules that teams have to carry a certain number of players from the host country. Do they have something similar in MLS? It looks like Portland has 3-4 Americans on their bench. But why should I watch a US based league where all the players are inferior B and C teamers from other countries?
 
Well, we’ve reached the time of year when televised sports options become more scarce. I just watched a Serie A and watched a Juventus player give his entire kit away after the match and walk off the field in his bikini underwear. Not used to see that.

now I’ve turned on an MLS match between Portland and LA. I’ve always known Portland has pretty good atmosphere for their matches, but it struck me that I don’t see one American on the field for them. Is this common in MLS? Other domestic leagues have rules that teams have to carry a certain number of players from the host country. Do they have something similar in MLS? It looks like Portland has 3-4 Americans on their bench. But why should I watch a US based league where all the players are inferior B and C teamers from other countries?

What I've been saying for years and its why I tuned out MLS after the Beckham era when they had International and US stars playing. Now its pretty much all 2nd tier South Americans. There used to be a rule that limited international players but MLS basically cut that out and now allow green card holders to count as domestic players. So there really aren't many Americans who play a lot in MLS. Some teams don't start any American field players. Most start just maybe 2-3.

For me, as the casual fan, I want to see:

- brand name stars, even aging ones
- Americans

What I dont want so see

- 2nd tier South Americans

MLS has basically become a 2nd tier South American league which has little interest to me. If I wanted to watch South Americans play club football, I'd watch Boca Juniors or River Plate
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fk_Pitt
Well, we’ve reached the time of year when televised sports options become more scarce. I just watched a Serie A and watched a Juventus player give his entire kit away after the match and walk off the field in his bikini underwear. Not used to see that.

now I’ve turned on an MLS match between Portland and LA. I’ve always known Portland has pretty good atmosphere for their matches, but it struck me that I don’t see one American on the field for them. Is this common in MLS? Other domestic leagues have rules that teams have to carry a certain number of players from the host country. Do they have something similar in MLS? It looks like Portland has 3-4 Americans on their bench. But why should I watch a US based league where all the players are inferior B and C teamers from other countries?
Most of the teams I've watched usually always have American players, very often several young kids like 17-20 years old that they developed themselves. What did you do, go and Google the Portland lineup? I seriously don't even care where they are from. I watch the MLS and have no idea what their roster rules are. I don't watch because of the "quality" of the players or where they are from, I watch it because it's a league based in the USA, and I like that.
 
Most of the teams I've watched usually always have American players, very often several young kids like 17-20 years old that they developed themselves. What did you do, go and Google the Portland lineup? I seriously don't even care where they are from. I watch the MLS and have no idea what their roster rules are. I don't watch because of the "quality" of the players or where they are from, I watch it because it's a league based in the USA, and I like that.
Very few Americans get playing time in MLS. I don't know what you are watching.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fk_Pitt
Most of the teams I've watched usually always have American players, very often several young kids like 17-20 years old that they developed themselves. What did you do, go and Google the Portland lineup? I seriously don't even care where they are from. I watch the MLS and have no idea what their roster rules are. I don't watch because of the "quality" of the players or where they are from, I watch it because it's a league based in the USA, and I like that.
Yep. I went to ESPN app and had their starting lineup in front of me. I clicked on each player individually to see where they were from.
 
Very few Americans get playing time in MLS. I don't know what you are watching.
I watch mostly DC United games, they're all on my local TV package, just looked at their roster, they have at least 10 players listed as from USA who are regular players that play often, 7 are regular starters who play almost every game the full 90 minutes. I do watch other games, but who the players are and what countries they come from has never been a priority issue for me, I never even thought about it. I follow it like I follow the Steelers, DC is my favorite team, so I watch them mostly, and as for the players, I'm good with bringing in foreigners, I don't care where they're from if they play well, like Ola Kamara of Norway lead the MLS in goals last year, I'd rather my team have him than an American that's not as good, they had Wayne Rooney for 2 years, I don't care that he's washed up in the EPL, he was fun to watch. I'm more like an old school sports fan, I adopt a team, usually because I live near it and follow them, and that's more important than world wide implications or quality of play, or where the players came from.
 
I watch mostly DC United games, they're all on my local TV package, just looked at their roster, they have at least 10 players listed as from USA who are regular players that play often, 7 are regular starters who play almost every game the full 90 minutes. I do watch other games, but who the players are and what countries they come from has never been a priority issue for me, I never even thought about it. I follow it like I follow the Steelers, DC is my favorite team, so I watch them mostly, and as for the players, I'm good with bringing in foreigners, I don't care where they're from if they play well, like Ola Kamara of Norway lead the MLS in goals last year, I'd rather my team have him than an American that's not as good, they had Wayne Rooney for 2 years, I don't care that he's washed up in the EPL, he was fun to watch. I'm more like an old school sports fan, I adopt a team, usually because I live near it and follow them, and that's more important than world wide implications or quality of play, or where the players came from.
Who are the Americans who play a lot?
 
Here see for yourself, a lot of Americans playing a lot of minutes
Basically what I've been saying. 9 of the 13 field players with the most PT aren't American. This is across the board in MLS. Its dirty little secret is that not many Americans actually play.
 
Basically what I've been saying. 9 of the 13 field players with the most PT aren't American. This is across the board in MLS. Its dirty little secret is that not many Americans actually play.
That match I watched Sunday? It drew 125k viewers. MLS is not American. In spite of what Pitt79 says.

 
That match I watched Sunday? It drew 125k viewers. MLS is not American. In spite of what Pitt79 says.

How many Americans need to be on the team for it to be "American"? What's your criteria? To me though, I don't even care who the players are. I just want a league that plays inside the USA, in the USA's time zones, representing USA cities, the majority of the rosters can be second rate South Americans and it doesn't matter to me. I mostly watch DC United and to me, I look at their roster and see plenty of Americans, and of those Americans, since I watch their games, I see many of them playing significant minutes or at least appearing in most games, and I think currently at least 3 of the guy on the roster have played for USAMNT in recent years. That's how I prefer to watch sports, the old school way, have a favorite team, probably local and watch their games 90% of my viewing, that's really why I like MLS and that DC United has a local TV deal so I can see most games.
 
That being said, as you know, I'm also a fan of Olympiacos of Greece and only 4 of the top 17 guys in minutes played are Greek, I also checked Chelsea's roster, only ONE of the top 12 in minutes played is English- JUST ONE, so I guess those aren't Greek or English leagues?
 
How many Americans need to be on the team for it to be "American"? What's your criteria? To me though, I don't even care who the players are. I just want a league that plays inside the USA, in the USA's time zones, representing USA cities, the majority of the rosters can be second rate South Americans and it doesn't matter to me. I mostly watch DC United and to me, I look at their roster and see plenty of Americans, and of those Americans, since I watch their games, I see many of them playing significant minutes or at least appearing in most games, and I think currently at least 3 of the guy on the roster have played for USAMNT in recent years. That's how I prefer to watch sports, the old school way, have a favorite team, probably local and watch their games 90% of my viewing, that's really why I like MLS and that DC United has a local TV deal so I can see most games.
If Americans aren’t watching, then call it whatever you want. But america doesn’t care. That’s worse than NHL numbers. I wonder what a Winnipeg vs Ottawa game draws in the US.
 
If Americans aren’t watching, then call it whatever you want. But america doesn’t care. That’s worse than NHL numbers. I wonder what a Winnipeg vs Ottawa game draws in the US.
That's fine, I watch it, If I like something that Americans in general don't like, that's fine with me, like I was a fan of Arena Football for 20 years, watched it all the time, doesn't matter to me that it's not popular with most people. I also like all the oddball minor football leagues that usually fail, like the XFL, I'm going to watch the USFL over stuff like NHL and NBA and MLB, even though it's really crappy players not good enough for NFL practice squads. I explained why I like MLS, there are MLS fans, I talk to them. You say you're a soccer fan, so it would make sense if you wanted a soccer league INSIDE THE USA to succeed and supported it. It's sad that American soccer fans are waking up at 7am and watching English games and they have teams in their own cities that they can't support, "Oh the quality is too low",.... ever think the quality would improve if they had more fan support and generated more money? But for me it's MORE FUN that the team is local and the league is domestic, that attracts me more than world class quality of play in an English city. With the increased popularity of soccer as a sport in the USA it would really suck if our own league the MLS failed because soccer snobs ignored it forever because "the quality is too low" and I think we can thank the MLS for the improvement of the USAMNT, so many of these young Americans going to European teams where trained by MLS.
 
That match I watched Sunday? It drew 125k viewers. MLS is not American. In spite of what Pitt79 says.

People just arent going to watch 2nd tier South Americans wearing MLS jerseys. Its uninteresting. These teams can continue to get good crowds from their local fanbase and make enough money to pay these South Americans and make a profit.....and that's enough for them I guess.

As an American soccer fan, I would love for them to go big, to try. In this day and age, there has to be some way to do it and not bankrupt the league. Otherwise, you have your cute league that 30K people in your city like and that's it.
 
People just arent going to watch 2nd tier South Americans wearing MLS jerseys. Its uninteresting. These teams can continue to get good crowds from their local fanbase and make enough money to pay these South Americans and make a profit.....and that's enough for them I guess.

As an American soccer fan, I would love for them to go big, to try. In this day and age, there has to be some way to do it and not bankrupt the league. Otherwise, you have your cute league that 30K people in your city like and that's it.
So you don’t want to watch 2nd rate players from $hithole countries. You’re a real xenophobe. Just like your boy Trump. I’m right there with you.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Pitt79
People just arent going to watch 2nd tier South Americans wearing MLS jerseys. Its uninteresting. These teams can continue to get good crowds from their local fanbase and make enough money to pay these South Americans and make a profit.....and that's enough for them I guess.

As an American soccer fan, I would love for them to go big, to try. In this day and age, there has to be some way to do it and not bankrupt the league. Otherwise, you have your cute league that 30K people in your city like and that's it.
Just like in every other sport, I root for teams, and I don't really care who the players are, I root for my team's jersey and hope they can compete with the other teams on their schedule. I've been a fan of DC United since the first year, 1996, until this discussion, I never even thought of or cared about where the players are from. Like I don't care that Terry Bradshaw was from Louisiana or JuJu was from USC, I guess I like the cute league and the few thousand people liking it. To me, it doesn't have to be "BIG", I hope it stays the way it is and they don't do something like try to join Europe. Going big means nothing to me. I've been watching it as it is for over 20 years and like it this way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fk_Pitt
Just like in every other sport, I root for teams, and I don't really care who the players are, I root for my team's jersey and hope they can compete with the other teams on their schedule. I've been a fan of DC United since the first year, 1996, until this discussion, I never even thought of or cared about where the players are from. Like I don't care that Terry Bradshaw was from Louisiana or JuJu was from USC, I guess I like the cute league and the few thousand people liking it. To me, it doesn't have to be "BIG", I hope it stays the way it is and they don't do something like try to join Europe. Going big means nothing to me. I've been watching it as it is for over 20 years and like it this way.
There’s something endearing about having a niche. If even big time soccer remained a niche in this country, it doesn’t bother me one bit. I don’t need affirmation from others. I enjoy my bubble.
 
So you don’t want to watch 2nd rate players from $hithole countries. You’re a real xenophobe. Just like your boy Trump. I’m right there with you.
That's not it at all. I don't want to watch 2nd tier players from ANY country other than the US. I want to watch Americans or world stars. I see no interest in watching average South Americans play. I'd rather watch Americans because I'm interested in the growth of the American game. I could watch better soccer in the Argentinian or Colombian leagues if I wanted to watch South Americans
 
That's not it at all. I don't want to watch 2nd tier players from ANY country other than the US. I want to watch Americans or world stars. I see no interest in watching average South Americans play. I'd rather watch Americans because I'm interested in the growth of the American game. I could watch better soccer in the Argentinian or Colombian leagues if I wanted to watch South Americans
You’re really fixated on those people of color. I’ll remind everyone here that there are plenty of white euro ham and eggers in the league too. But you only want to talk about the South Americans. ;). It’s ok. We understand your position.
 
There’s something endearing about having a niche. If even big time soccer remained a niche in this country, it doesn’t bother me one bit. I don’t need affirmation from others. I enjoy my bubble.
I enjoy my bubble too. I don't need it to be WORLD WIDE MAJOR LEAGUE-HOME OF THE BEST STARS to enjoy it.
 
You’re really fixated on those people of color. I’ll remind everyone here that there are plenty of white euro ham and eggers in the league too. But you only want to talk about the South Americans. ;). It’s ok. We understand your position.
Nope. The MLS has made a public push to recruit younger South American players. They even put in a new rule, the young DP rule to attract these types. They are very focused on South America. This is why I bring up South America all the time. If they made a public push to go after young English players in the 3rd Division over there, I'd say the same thing. The league made a strategic decison to stop bringing in over-the-hill world stars and to bring jn young South Americans, who, yes, may be better but to the casual MLS fan as myself, I'd rather watch over the hill Pirlo or Gerrard than some 21 year old from Paraguay. I need a reason to watch. I dont get excited about some young South American dude who will never play for his national team. Now, you sign a Lukaku or DeBruyne, someone like that getting up in age, I watch.
 
Last edited:
That's not it at all. I don't want to watch 2nd tier players from ANY country other than the US. I want to watch Americans or world stars. I see no interest in watching average South Americans play. I'd rather watch Americans because I'm interested in the growth of the American game. I could watch better soccer in the Argentinian or Colombian leagues if I wanted to watch South Americans
Clearly, other than Pitt, in every sport, you don't seem to be TEAM oriented? You are focused on seeing star players, rather than following any team in any sport?
 
Nope. The MLS has made a public push to recruit younger South American players. They even put in a new rule, the young DP rule to attract these types. They are very focused on South America. This is why I bring up South America all the time. If they made a public push to go after young English players in the 3rd Division over there, I'd say the same thing.
Well whatever the case, my thread started after watching Portland and they had 2 Polish players alone in their game day squad as well as a handful of other Euros.
 
What kind of players do you want them to have? If they go with all Americans, the talent level would likely be worse? I think like any other league they are bringing in the best players that can attract.

Again, I root for teams, and want a league inside my country, like people who follow the Greek League or Costa Rican League do, I'm like them, so where the players come from or how they stack up with players in their country is something I never thought of or cared about.
 
I'd rather watch over the hill Pirlo or Gerrard than some 21 year old from Paraguay. I need a reason to watch. I dont get excited about some young South American dude who will never play for his national team. Now, you sign a Lukaku or DeBruyne, someone like that getting up in age, I watch.
You see that doesn't matter to me, because I never heard of Pirlo or Gerrard until they joined MLS, and I need a reason to watch too, the reason is basically simple, have a favorite team in the league, that's all I need.
 
That's not it at all. I don't want to watch 2nd tier players from ANY country other than the US. I want to watch Americans or world stars. I see no interest in watching average South Americans play. I'd rather watch Americans because I'm interested in the growth of the American game. I could watch better soccer in the Argentinian or Colombian leagues if I wanted to watch South Americans
That Diaz kid from Columbia who looks like a superstar in the making at Liverpool was offered $2 million by a MLS club a few years ago. They wouldn’t budge to $5 million. He went to Porto instead and now is at Liverpool making an impact. His value is now 85 million. He’s the reason Liverpool will probably allow Salah to walk this summer. The kid is legit.
 
What kind of players do you want them to have? If they go with all Americans, the talent level would likely be worse? I think like any other league they are bringing in the best players that can attract.

Again, I root for teams, and want a league inside my country, like people who follow the Greek League or Costa Rican League do, I'm like them, so where the players come from or how they stack up with players in their country is something I never thought of or cared about.
Here's what I want:

- 7-8 International slots per team.

- Green card holders don't count as American

- Citizenship, not necessarily National Team counts. Example: DC and Honduras's Andy Najar is an Americam citizen. He can count as an American slot.

- A focus on bringing in at least 1 recognizable world star per team.

- A focus on a few superteams such as when LA had Beckham, Keane, Donovan, and US CB at the time Omar Gonzalez.
 
That's not it at all. I don't want to watch 2nd tier players from ANY country other than the US. I want to watch Americans or world stars. I see no interest in watching average South Americans play. I'd rather watch Americans because I'm interested in the growth of the American game. I could watch better soccer in the Argentinian or Colombian leagues if I wanted to watch South Americans
So is it about watching "Better Soccer"? It has nothing to do with being a fan of a team? EPL is the best soccer in the world, I watch a little here and there and can tell it's better, but I can't attach myself to a team in an English city to be able to watch entire games with a rooting interest. And if they made MLS mostly American players, wouldn't that make the quality of play worse? Do you want BETTER SOCCER or seeing AMERICANS play? That's why it makes more sense to just pick a team and root for them, less to think about :) If you want American players to fill most of the MLS roster spots and have less foreign players you are asking to lower the quality of play, because you're asking MLS to reduce the pool of players they pick from from the whole world to just the USA.
 
Here's what I want:

- 7-8 International slots per team.

- Green card holders don't count as American

- Citizenship, not necessarily National Team counts. Example: DC and Honduras's Andy Najar is an Americam citizen. He can count as an American slot.

- A focus on bringing in at least 1 recognizable world star per team.

- A focus on a few superteams such as when LA had Beckham, Keane, Donovan, and US CB at the time Omar Gonzalez.
You're probably reducing the quality of play with this, I thought that the poor quality of play is why you can't watch MLS?

You really know a lot about individual players for someone that doesn't watch MLS, you know about Andy Najar? I know about him, but only because I follow DC, if he was playing for KC or somewhere else, I'd know nothing about him LOL :)

Focus on Super Teams? What does that means? if it means have 3-4 super powerful teams that win every year, I personally don't want that at all, I like MLS because of the NFL like parity, where you're not sure who's going to be good. Believe it or not, there are Europeans living in places like England and Spain who are MLS fans and stream MLS games, precisely because their home leagues are too predictable and the same teams win over and over.
 
So is it about watching "Better Soccer"? It has nothing to do with being a fan of a team? EPL is the best soccer in the world, I watch a little here and there and can tell it's better, but I can't attach myself to a team in an English city to be able to watch entire games with a rooting interest. And if they made MLS mostly American players, wouldn't that make the quality of play worse? Do you want BETTER SOCCER or seeing AMERICANS play? That's why it makes more sense to just pick a team and root for them, less to think about :) If you want American players to fill most of the MLS roster spots and have less foreign players you are asking to lower the quality of play, because you're asking MLS to reduce the pool of players they pick from from the whole world to just the USA.

The quality of MLS sucks. If I wanted to watch good soccer, there's 10 other leagues I can watch. I want to watch MLS for the growth of the game and to see how the American players are doing. The foreigners they are bringing in aren't even that much better than the Americans that cant make these rosters. I doubt anyone would notice much if Veljko Petkovic was playing instead of some 2nd tier dude from Paraguay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fk_Pitt
The quality of MLS sucks. If I wanted to watch good soccer, there's 10 other leagues I can watch. I want to watch MLS for the growth of the game and to see how the American players are doing. The foreigners they are bringing in aren't even that much better than the Americans that cant make these rosters. I doubt anyone would notice much if Veljko Petkovic was playing instead of some 2nd tier dude from Paraguay.
I just watch it for the most raw, simplistic reasons, like I picked a team and follow that team, like being a Steelers fan in 1933, I don't think about the big picture at all, I mean how it is compared to the rest of the world and what it does for USA Soccer in the future, it's not even in my thought process, it's just a TV show for the day I'm watching it, and it's easier to watch when you care who wins. I never heard of Veliko Petkovic either.
 
The people who think that the league should focus only on American players would notice that he's not one.
He's probably a citizen by now or close enough. He's been here since middle school. If you want to put a rule in that a player can be within 1-2 years of attaining citizenship to not count as an International, I'm down
 
He's probably a citizen by now or close enough. He's been here since middle school. If you want to put a rule in that a player can be within 1-2 years of attaining citizenship to not count as an International, I'm down
I find it crazy that you care so much about where the players come from, I just watch the games. And sure I like when they bring in some known player, like I enjoyed when DC had Wayne Rooney, and Ibrahimovich was fun to watch, currently Chicharito for LA Galaxy is fun to watch, but I don't NEED world stars to follow the league.
 
ADVERTISEMENT