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OT: Mr. Hurdle, can we please stop the "opener" experiment??

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FreeportPanther

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Time for Nutting to loosen the purse strings and sanction a move for the PIrates to either sign a starter, trade for one, or bring up a starter from the minors.

This hot garbage show with these relievers getting pummelled in front of the only decent crowd the team has had all year is wearing thin.

Total $hit show, except Bell and Reynolds and the ancient one, Cabrera. With the Nutting Pirates, it's always something!
 
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FreeportPanther said:
Time for Nutting to loosen the purse strings and sanction a move for the PIrates to either sign a starter, trade for one, or bring up a starter from the minors.

This hot garbage show with these relievers getting pummelled in front of the only decent crowd the team has had all year is wearing thin.

Total $hit show, except Bell and Reynolds and the ancient one, Cabrera. With the Nutting Pirates, it's always something!
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Agree. Even if Williams comes back shortly Taiillon may not be back til Mid July if we are lucky. With Archer having no idea where home plate is we would still only have a three man rotation. They need to fill this hole soon.
 
wbrpanther said:
Agree. Even if Williams comes back shortly Taiillon may not be back til Mid July if we are lucky. With Archer having no idea where home plate is we would still only have a three man rotation. They need to fill this hole soon.
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What do you do when Dickerson comes back next week? You have 5 productive outfielders for three spots. That doesn’t even count Chisenhall (I don’t even know how to spell his name yet). You’ll have two pretty good outfielders + Lonnie (who I guess is good when healthy) on the bench each night and you still have no pitching. Gotta make a deal for an arm or two.

It’s a shame that the Archer deal didn’t work out, as that’s the kind of deal the Pirates were always afraid to make and One the fan base applauded. Now they’ll think twice before doing it again. Additionally, like the Pirates with McCutchen, the Rays knew that Archer was in decline. They dumped him at the right time.

Could you imagine if the Pirates traded Bell and he was doing this for another team? Bell rumors were always floating around the last couple of years.
 
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fkthomas said:
What do you do when Dickerson comes back next week? You have 5 productive outfielders for three spots. That doesn’t even count Chisenhall (I don’t even know how to spell his name yet). You’ll have two pretty good outfielders + Lonnie (who I guess is good when healthy) on the bench each night and you still have no pitching. Gotta make a deal for an arm or two.

It’s a shame that the Archer deal didn’t work out, as that’s the kind of deal the Pirates were always afraid to make and One the fan base applauded. Now they’ll think twice before doing it again. Additionally, like the Pirates with McCutchen, the Rays knew that Archer was in decline. They dumped him at the right time.

Could you imagine if the Pirates traded Bell and he was doing this for another team? Bell rumors were always floating around the last couple of years.
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I think this will be a good problem, re: Dickerson.
Hopefully he comes back healthy. Work him back in but with significant playing time for Reynolds as well. Then if Dickerson hits and fields like last year, and Reynolds continues to produce...shop Dickerson around the break.

Look to swap him for a good AAA/AA starting pitching prospect, someone who could come up relatively soon.
Reynolds looks solid. He doesn't wow you, but does everything pretty good. You can live with that especially with his price tag.
Don't forget that Dickerson is a FA at the end of the year, so a decision needed to be made anyway. Reynolds play has made that decision pretty easy.

People loved the Archer deal and panned the McCutcheon deal. Funny how that worked out.
McCutcheon yielded two guys who are contributing significantly to the ML team. So did Archer, but in reverse. They sure need him to find himself soon if they're going to salvage the season.

Bell is en fuego. Sure hope he's doing it the right way! Seems like a good kid so he probably is, but it is the PIrates so you kind of expect something to blow up in your face!
 
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FreeportPanther said:
Time for Nutting to loosen the purse strings and sanction a move for the PIrates to either sign a starter, trade for one, or bring up a starter from the minors.

This hot garbage show with these relievers getting pummelled in front of the only decent crowd the team has had all year is wearing thin.

Total $hit show, except Bell and Reynolds and the ancient one, Cabrera. With the Nutting Pirates, it's always something!
Click to expand...
They don’t have too many options. I’d give liriano a start.
 
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Zeldas Open Roof said:
They don’t have too many options. I’d give liriano a start.
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Keuchel is still out there as FA.
Solid/exceptional starting pitcher.
Of course, that would require Nutting to spend some $$$ and we all know how that goes.

Wheeler from the Mets, or Bumgarner from the Giants could be had in a trade, but after the Archer deal, doubt if that will be happening!

Maybe they'll grease Ray Searage up and toss him for a couple of games. Kind of like when they brought Bill VIrdon back from mothballs to play a few games after he retired and was coaching.
 
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TempleBAPittMPA said:
They should have kept JB Shuck. At least he could get somebody out.
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I think I heard they were considering using him like Ohtani, giving him a regular start and some fill in position work. Doubt it would work but he’d probably be as good as Kingham of late.
 
Keuchel would be perfect because he would be pro-rated missing a third or more of the season and reportedly wants a one-year deal to retest free agency after the season. That way you don’t give up scarce prospects.
 
fkthomas said:
What do you do when Dickerson comes back next week? You have 5 productive outfielders for three spots. That doesn’t even count Chisenhall (I don’t even know how to spell his name yet). You’ll have two pretty good outfielders + Lonnie (who I guess is good when healthy) on the bench each night and you still have no pitching. Gotta make a deal for an arm or two.

It’s a shame that the Archer deal didn’t work out, as that’s the kind of deal the Pirates were always afraid to make and One the fan base applauded. Now they’ll think twice before doing it again. Additionally, like the Pirates with McCutchen, the Rays knew that Archer was in decline. They dumped him at the right time.

Could you imagine if the Pirates traded Bell and he was doing this for another team? Bell rumors were always floating around the last couple of years.
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The Pirates actually have a very nice group of players as far as the 8 fielders go. Reynolds has been a very good return in the McCutcheon trade, Melky has been phenomenal. Not only on the field but he seems to be great in the clubhouse. I like the combination of infielders, even with Kang being non existent.

Going into the season the starting pitching was the strongest position. Now with the top 2 pitchers on IR and Archer unable to locate pitches the team is teetering on disaster. Keller is their top pitcher in AAA but he really isn't ready. But they may need to bring him up to pitch in the doubleheader on Monday. Liriano has pitched very well out of the bullpen but Hurdle needs to get over his stubbornness and put him in the rotation till the others get back.
 
Pirates need to clean house of their pitching coaches. Many high draft picks over the years and still don’t have an ace; pitchers in the system for years and still can’t throw a change-up... Great arms like Taillon, and he still struggles....

The Pirates always preached “fastball command.” How has that worked out? Should be preaching the old school “Work fast; change speeds; throw strikes.”

Go Pitt.
 
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MajorMajors said:
Pirates need to clean house of their pitching coaches. Many high draft picks over the years and still don’t have an ace; pitchers in the system for years and still can’t throw a change-up... Great arms like Taillon, and he still struggles....

The Pirates always preached “fastball command.” How has that worked out? Should be preaching the old school “Work fast; change speeds; throw strikes.”

Go Pitt.
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A Ray Miller disciple!
 
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MajorMajors said:
Pirates need to clean house of their pitching coaches. Many high draft picks over the years and still don’t have an ace; pitchers in the system for years and still can’t throw a change-up... Great arms like Taillon, and he still struggles....

The Pirates always preached “fastball command.” How has that worked out? Should be preaching the old school “Work fast; change speeds; throw strikes.”

Go Pitt.
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Amen.

I was thinking this yesterday and going to post something similar.

The Pirates have gained notoriety for resurrecting guys like Liriano, Volquez, Lyles, etc.... Their pitching to contact, and crap like this. But what is obvious and should be obvious, those guys with electric "stuff", especially hard throwers just do not flourish here. They try and be too fine. Look at Charlie Morton after he has left the Pirates? Look at Garrit Cole? Cole #1 overall pick was absolutely maddening to watch, threw hard, never missed any bats. Now he is leading the AL in strikeouts. And of course there is Tyler Glasnow who has immediately been transferred into another Chris Sale by another coaching staff. Conversely, look at Taillon's struggles and injuries, look at Archer, guys come here and stop missing bats.

I have said all along that Ray Searage is incredibly overrated and Jim Benedict was the true "guru" of the pitching coaches.
 
Something else about the "opener". I guess I get the idea behind starting a right handed reliever with the plan to bring in the left handed starter after an inning or two. Maybe the opponent starts a bunch of lefties against your reliever and then when you make the change you either get a lot of left on left matchups or the other guys use up several of their bench players early in the game, giving them fewer options later when it might be more important.

But what on earth is the thinking behind what they did the other night, when they started right hander DuRapau with the intention of replacing him with right hander Kingham after an inning or two? You don't gain any platoon advantage for either guy. You put a guy who is not used to being a starter into an unfamiliar role. While Kingham obviously has pitched in relief he has started far more games and is surely more comfortable in that role. So what was the point? You put your guys in less familiar roles and gained no advantage what so ever.

Stupid.
 
By the way, last night, had the Pirates just started Brault and and he gave you a line of 5-2/3 innings, 2 runs, 3 hits, 1 strike out and 3 walks wouldn't we all have been reasonably happy with that? I mean it's certainly not great, but who expects great out of Steven Brault? But when that line comes after 6 batters, 5 runs, 4 hits, 1 walk, 1 out, well, who even really notices?
 
They won't get a quality starter for Dickerson or any of the outfielders, including Marte. There are 10 other teams with pitching problems so they will have to pay up.
 
maxxwell said:
I was there last night. At least I got a pretty cool hat with my 2-hour rain delay and two $10 beers.
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We did have a great time.. gave us free grand slam breakfast(home run) and my kid really enjoyed running the bases..

Drinking my Full Pints now...
 
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Does it matter. Musgrove couldn't hold them, Archer couldn't hold them. The bullpen, other than Brault, looked terrible in the series.
 
pbrad said:
Does it matter. Musgrove couldn't hold them, Archer couldn't hold them. The bullpen, other than Brault, looked terrible in the series.
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Brault was terrible too, just looked good in comparison.
Amazing how a team strength vaporized. The Pirates drafted pitchers exclusively for years, and they have one prospect to show for it. We'll see what kind of prospect he is soon.

If history is any indicator, he'll suck too!
 
Blue Goose said:
do any of these pitchers know where home plate IS???????????
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Probably not they keep covering it up?

Fyi- Nutting is going to do Nutting!
His business model is working.
I guess he doesn't think he needs all the people on here who think he does!
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