OT: NBA 2021-2022

[lilspainishflea]

Me too. Looking at those picks for first and second team just tells you how amazingly talented this league is. And the games, even the regular season, are competitive and fun. I don’t think the league has ever been more competitive or interesting but I guess I’ve not historically been a huge fan so who knows.

Top to bottom, I think the NBA is more skilled than it ever has been. A lot of big men can do it all now - dribble, pass, and shoot. The guards are basically the best all around offensive players in history. And you just have more freak athletes now. I also think specialization has really helped a lot of the role players look good.

A lot of this is from big data. "Moneyball" for lack of a better term, has really helped the NBA become a more exciting product. It's just so much better to watch than the hero/ISO stuff from the early 2000s, and I also think the personalities are just more likeable on the whole (Kyrie and Simmons notwithstanding).

 

[Ski11585]

Whew! Watching the Warriors beat down the Nets was fun AF last night. The Warriors are such a fun team to watch and I enjoy that I can go back to rooting for them since Durant is gone. And with Klay cleared for contact they're going to get even better. I think Kuminga is going to be a good one.

And I want to reiterate - some of y'all need to give a few games a chance. The new rules have made for a much more physical and defense-friendly game. I'm still skeptical it persists throughout the full season but I think some of you 90s NBA guys might enjoy it.

 

[DT_PITT]

For the few of us who are NBA fans, while watching the Bucks-Warriors tonight ... I thought it would be fun to take a stab at the All-NBA team at mid-season.

For my teams, I used the NBA format of 2 guards, 2 forwards and a center on each team.

I put a premium of players on winning teams which explains my placement of Trae Young. My son reminded me that he thinks DeRozan is the best player on the Bulls, but DaMar plays SF.

Other than that, I think these are pretty much on the money.

First Team

C- Nokia Jokic
F- Giannis
F-Kevin Durant
G- Zach LaVine
G-Steph Curry (MVP thus far)

Second Team

C- Rudy Gobert
F-DeMar DeRozan
F- Lebron James
G-Chris Paul
G-Ja Morant

Third Team

C-Joel Embiid
F-Jayson Tatum
F-Jimmy Butler
G-Donovan Mitchell
G-Trae Young

Also considered:

Devin Booker (originally had him at 3rd team over Mitchell, but he hasn't been shooting as well as of late)
James Harden
Luka Doncic (he's been injured -- he'll make his way onto the list eventually)
Karl Anthony Towns
Jared Allen
Daruis Garland
Lamelo Ball
Bradley Beal
Julius Randle
Brandon Ingram
Damian Lillard
Dominis Sabonis
Fred Van Fleet
Draymond Green
Dejounte Murray

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

For the few of us who are NBA fans, while watching the Bucks-Warriors tonight ... I thought it would be fun to take a stab at the All-NBA team at mid-season.

For my teams, I used the NBA format of 2 guards, 2 forwards and a center on each team.

I put a premium of players on winning teams which explains my placement of Trae Young. My son reminded me that he thinks DeRozan is the best player on the Bulls, but DaMar plays SF.

Other than that, I think these are pretty much on the money.

First Team

C- Nokia Jokic
F- Giannis
F-Kevin Durant
G- Zach LaVine
G-Steph Curry (MVP thus far)

Second Team

C- Rudy Gobert
F-Demar DeRozan
F- Lebron James
G-Chris Paul
G-Ja Morant

Third Team

C-Joel Embiid
F-Jayson Tatum
F-Jimmy Butler
G-Donovan Mitchell
G-Trae Young

Also considered:

Devin Booker (originally had him at 3rd team over Mitchell, but he hasn't been shooting as well as of late)
James Harden
Luka Doncic (he's been injured -- he'll make his way onto the list eventually)
Karl Anthony Towns
Jared Allen
Daruis Garland
Lamelo Ball
Bradley Beal
Julius Randle
Brandon Ingram
Damian Lillard
Dominis Sabonis
Fred Van Fleet
Draymond Green
Dejounte Murray

1st Team
Jokic
Giannis
Durant
Curry
LBJ

 

[DT_PITT]

1st Team
Jokic
Giannis
Durant
Curry
LBJ

Don't disagree with the five but LeBron is a forward so when picking, LeBron is now second team behind Giannis and KD

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Don't disagree with the five but LeBron is a forward so when picking, LeBron is now second team behind Giannis and KD

I have LBJ running the point on my team and Curry is raining down 3’s from the SG spot. 🙂

 

[DT_PITT]

I have LBJ running the point on my team and Curry is raining down 3’s from the SG spot. 🙂

Last year (or so), I was reading SI's top 50 NBA players (or something like that).

They listed every player's position in their write up, and 47 of the players were listed as C-PF-SF-SG-PG.

For example, it would say:

Chris Paul, Phoenix Suns, position: point guard.

Three players were listed with something else:

Ben Simmons, Philadelphia 76ers, position: power forward??
Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks, position: Unicorn
LeBron James, Los Angeles Lakers, position: LeBron

 

[TD_6082]

Getting harder and harder to overlook Ja Morant & the Memphis Grizzlies.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

If you don’t have Ja on your first team I can’t even speak to you.

 

[DT_PITT]

If you don’t have Ja on your first team I can’t even speak to you.

I’m a big Ja fan, and he’s moving in that direction for sure. Nonetheless, I looked at about 5 other mid season teams and none of them had Ja on the first team either. I think three of them had Trae on the first team and I get that. But I went with Zach because the Bulls are in first.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

I’m a big Ja fan, and he moving in that direction for sure. Nonetheless, I looked at about 5 other mid season teams and none of them had Ja on the first team either. I think three of them had Trae on the first team and I get that. But I went with Zach because the Bulls are in first.

I will just say that basketball is in a golden period right now with the wealth of awesome youngsters. the older stars won‘t go on forever but lots of young guns out there.

 

[Ski11585]

WOOOO! Big trade.

Sixers get a little bit better. Nets get slightly less insufferable. Still hate the Nets.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

WOOOO! Big trade.

Sixers get a little bit better. Nets get slightly less insufferable. Still hate the Nets.

Although in a different way I think Simmons is every bit as dislikable as Harden. Overall it’s a push as far as I’m concerned.

 

[FrogmoreZeke]

I wonder why none of us are picking the Bucks.

Every time I see them play and watch Pat Connaughton get 20-25 min a game, I think to myself, how good can this team really be?!

 

[lilspainishflea]

WOOOO! Big trade.

Sixers get a little bit better. Nets get slightly less insufferable. Still hate the Nets.

I'm so glad Simmons is gone. Probably the guy I hated most that played for one of my teams. Short of the outright criminals.

It's a win for him though. His inability to shoot will get covered by Durant. Until he goes to the foul line. Would love to see the Sixers put Isaiah Joe on him in the playoffs and just foul him like the Hawks did to us.

Simmons is never going to change. Never. I usually hate ranting against weak minded young people but he's the epitome of spoiled TikToker.

 

[cease10]

WOOOO! Big trade.

Sixers get a little bit better. Nets get slightly less insufferable. Still hate the Nets.

Harden is an enigma. I don't like his game and I don't think he makes teams better. Sixers may have just gotten worse and he may be looking for another trade this time next year or even in the offseason.

Nets aren't much better with Simmons either. It'll be interesting to see how he meshes with KD and Kyrie. He got his feelings hurt with Embiid, but KD and Kyrie aren't the cuddling type of guys either. The next few months will be a soap opera with both teams 🍿.....popcorn ready.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Harden is an enigma. I don't like his game and I don't think he makes teams better. Sixers may have just gotten worse and he may be looking for another trade this time next year or even in the offseason.

Nets aren't much better with Simmons either. It'll be interesting to see how he meshes with KD and Kyrie. He got his feelings hurt with Embiid, but KD and Kyrie aren't the cuddling type of guys either. The next few months will be a soap opera with both teams 🍿.....popcorn ready.

It's hard to imagine that the Sixers got worse by trading a guy who refuses to play for them and some role players including a backup center on an expiring contract.

 

[cease10]

It's hard to imagine that the Sixers got worse by trading a guy who refuses to play for them and some role players including a backup center on an expiring contract.

Yes...when Harden is dominating the ball.....dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble and then Embiid gets fed up with his ball hogging.

 

[Ski11585]

Every time I see them play and watch Pat Connaughton get 20-25 min a game, I think to myself, how good can this team really be?!

Bucks are gonna repeat.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

WOOOO! Big trade.

Sixers get a little bit better. Nets get slightly less insufferable. Still hate the Nets.

As not the biggest NBA aficionado was that a bit steep of a price? I mean who won the trade? It seemed like a lot for a guy who is a volume scorer.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

As not the biggest NBA aficionado was that a bit steep of a price? I mean who won the trade? It seemed like a lot for a guy who is a volume scorer.

One thing that helped was Harden opting in to his player option for next year as part of the deal. So he can’t just walk. But he can still tank and force a trade about this same next year. Or sooner if he flakes out again.

Simmons was done in Philly. Period. And everyone knew it. I’m not an expert either but Philly probably did ok. Having Morey probably helps too. And this improves their team right now while Embiid is having a monster and maybe an MVP season. Don’t know that Harden’s ever elevated anyone but himself however so we’ll see.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

This is pretty dam good

 

[Ski11585]

Chuck is hilarious.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Yes...when Harden is dominating the ball.....dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble and then Embiid gets fed up with his ball hogging.

They literally couldn't pass the ball to Ben Simmons in the half court during the 4th Quarter of the Hawks series because he's so incompetent and afraid on offense. I think Joel will be happy to not have to play 4 on 5.

 

[Ski11585]

They literally couldn't pass the ball to Ben Simmons in the half court during the 4th Quarter of the Hawks series because he's so incompetent and afraid on offense. I think Joel will be happy to not have to play 4 on 5.

Yeah. That’s the thing about the Harden acquisition. Any player even if the fit with Embiid isn’t ideal will be an upgrade over a zero.

 

[lilspainishflea]

As not the biggest NBA aficionado was that a bit steep of a price? I mean who won the trade? It seemed like a lot for a guy who is a volume scorer.

Both sides got better. Sixers got 2 years of a top 10 player for a damaged-brand All Star and some role players.

I disagree that the Sixers gave up a lot. They gave up more but most of the pieces that the Sixers gave up didn't have high value.

- Simmons refused to play in Philly ever again so that leverage hurt the Sixers. High-to-medium value.
- Curry is a nice shooter but he's a role player, an under-sized shooter that can't really create on his own and isn't a good defender. Medium value.
- Drummond is a backup C on an expiring contract. Low value.
- 2022 unprotected will be a late 1st. Low value.
- 2027 top 8 protected is anywhere from Medium value (pick 9 to 15) to low value (pick 27).

If any team is structured around Ben's weaknesses its the Nets. He literally never have to touch the ball if he doesn't want to (and he doesn't, at least in the half court). So it's possible they get more out of him than a team like the Pacers would have. But still the Sixers got a top 10 player for 1 good player and a lot of random pieces.

 

[lilspainishflea]

One thing that helped was Harden opting in to his player option for next year as part of the deal. So he can’t just walk. But he can still tank and force a trade about this same next year. Or sooner if he flakes out again.

Simmons was done in Philly. Period. And everyone knew it. I’m not an expert either but Philly probably did ok. Having Morey probably helps too. And this improves their team right now while Embiid is having a monster and maybe an MVP season. Don’t know that Harden’s ever elevated anyone but himself however so we’ll see.

I disagree with the narrative that Harden didn't elevate anyone. Clint Capela led the NBA in FG% three times in Houston because of Harden. The point of getting someone like Harden (it was supposed to be Markelle Fultz who comped to Harden and then the Sixers Bermuda Triangle Curse happened to him) was to get shooters around Embiid and get him in more 1 on 1 situations. They couldn't do that with Ben because he's a literal offensive zero.

Embiid is an MVP right now shooting 49% from the field. Capela shot 65% three years in a row with Harden. If Harden can space the floor better for Embiid and he gets up to 55% shooting, the Sixers will be a very tough out.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I disagree with the narrative that Harden didn't elevate anyone. Clint Capela led the NBA in FG% three times in Houston because of Harden. The point of getting someone like Harden (it was supposed to be Markelle Fultz who comped to Harden and then the Sixers Bermuda Triangle Curse happened to him) was to get shooters around Embiid and get him in more 1 on 1 situations. They couldn't do that with Ben because he's a literal offensive zero.

Embiid is an MVP right now shooting 49% from the field. Capela shot 65% three years in a row with Harden. If Harden can space the floor better for Embiid and he gets up to 55% shooting, the Sixers will be a very tough out.

Fair enough but I was speaking more of Harden being a me first player. A lot of guys with the ball in their hands are looking to make the team better. Harden far too often is looking to get his.

 

[Wanstash21]

love the move for Philly. BKN got the long term assets and some help to win now, but Morey is maximizing Emiid's window with this move. Not getting another star beside Emibiid at this stage of his career would've been a major mistake. Morey was patient and it worked. Not that Embiid is old, but health is always a concern, especially with his size.

 

[cease10]

I disagree with the narrative that Harden didn't elevate anyone. Clint Capela led the NBA in FG% three times in Houston because of Harden. The point of getting someone like Harden (it was supposed to be Markelle Fultz who comped to Harden and then the Sixers Bermuda Triangle Curse happened to him) was to get shooters around Embiid and get him in more 1 on 1 situations. They couldn't do that with Ben because he's a literal offensive zero.

Embiid is an MVP right now shooting 49% from the field. Capela shot 65% three years in a row with Harden. If Harden can space the floor better for Embiid and he gets up to 55% shooting, the Sixers will be a very tough out.

Regular season stats and wins are nice, but Harden hasn't done anything in the playoffs for his teams. And that's what matters.

Yes, Embiid is a MVP candidate now without Harden and my concern is that they may not mesh well together.

Also, Capella isn't a good example to compare with Embiid. Capella isn't an offensive focus like Embiid. Capella is more of a complimentary player that plays off of Harden. Embiid creates his own shot.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Chuck is hilarious.

I love him. I don't care what the sport, every sport's studio show would benefit by some Chuck.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Regular season stats and wins are nice, but Harden hasn't done anything in the playoffs for his teams. And that's what matters.

Yes, Embiid is a MVP candidate now without Harden and my concern is that they may not mesh well together.

Also, Capella isn't a good example to compare with Embiid. Capella isn't an offensive focus like Embiid. Capella is more of a complimentary player that plays off of Harden. Embiid creates his own shot.

They lost 3 straight times to the ultimate NBA champions - Warriors, Warriors, and Lakers. Two of those teams were among the best ever. Hard to fault Harden for that. Not like there was anyone else in Houston.

You seem to acknowledge that Embiid is the far superior player to Capela. My point was, if Harden can make offensively limited big men like Capella much better, he should be able to at least do something for Embiid. Certainly a lot more than a guy that: 1) can't shoot and can't create; and 2) refused to play for the Sixers ever again.

Harden is a top 10 player in the NBA and he fixes a lot of what's weak about the Sixers: ball handling and shooting. I think a lot of the griping about Harden is like complaining that you found $10 because it could have been $20.

 

[cease10]

They lost 3 straight times to the ultimate NBA champions - Warriors, Warriors, and Lakers. Two of those teams were among the best ever. Hard to fault Harden for that. Not like there was anyone else in Houston.

First of all we've seen Harden play with an elite big man before, Dwight Howard, and it didn't work out well.

Also, Harden played with Chris Paul, Melo, and Westbrook on those Houston teams that you reference.

 

[lilspainishflea]

First of all we've seen Harden play with an elite big man before, Dwight Howard, and it didn't work out well.

Also, Harden played with Chris Paul, Melo, and Westbrook on those Houston teams that you reference.

Howard is limited offensively and by the time Harden was in Houston and good, he was a 15 ppg role player and almost 30 years old. Embiid is a legit league MVP. Couldn't be more different.

Paul, Melo, and Westbrook were all in their 30s and none of them area really shooters. There's an obvious ball problem there, too. You can't play in and out with 3 guards. Again, I think there's a difference between giving Harden a bunch of 30 year old guards that aren't great shooters and saying "go beat the Warriors" versus giving him a league MVP 7' player, one of the best shooters in the league (Green), a defensive All Star (Thybulle), and an up and coming guard that's shooting almost 40% from 3 and expecting him to beat the Bucks and Heat.

We can agree to disagree. Harden has never played on a team with this kind of balance. And maybe it won't work out but, again, the Sixers were literally getting 0 production out of Ben Simmons and none of the other offers - Halliburton, Sibonis, Fox - offer remotely close to the upside that Harden does.

 

[Ski11585]

First of all we've seen Harden play with an elite big man before, Dwight Howard, and it didn't work out well.

Also, Harden played with Chris Paul, Melo, and Westbrook on those Houston teams that you reference.

Howard and Westbrook were both washed by the time they played with Harden. Howard's came is completely different from Embiid. And Westbrook was so washed that Morey had to trade away half the team and have Westbrook play center because he couldn't do anything else.

 

[DT_PITT]

Chuck is hilarious.

I love Chuck on that show.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I love Chuck on that show.

That show can be worth watching even if you’re not much of an NBA fan.

 

[cease10]

Howard is limited offensively and by the time Harden was in Houston and good, he was a 15 ppg role player and almost 30 years old. Embiid is a legit league MVP. Couldn't be more different.

Paul, Melo, and Westbrook were all in their 30s and none of them area really shooters. There's an obvious ball problem there, too. You can't play in and out with 3 guards. Again, I think there's a difference between giving Harden a bunch of 30 year old guards that aren't great shooters and saying "go beat the Warriors" versus giving him a league MVP 7' player, one of the best shooters in the league (Green), a defensive All Star (Thybulle), and an up and coming guard that's shooting almost 40% from 3 and expecting him to beat the Bucks and Heat.

We can agree to disagree. Harden has never played on a team with this kind of balance. And maybe it won't work out but, again, the Sixers were literally getting 0 production out of Ben Simmons and none of the other offers - Halliburton, Sibonis, Fox - offer remotely close to the upside that Harden does.

Funny how Chris Paul just went to the Finals with Booker.....but I'll leave it alone.

And you got to be drinking Koolaid to mention Green. He's a streaky shooter.

I'm fine with Harden going to Philly, just don't think it'll get them out the East.

 

[Ski11585]

Funny how Chris Paul just went to the Finals with Booker.....but I'll leave it alone.

And you got to be drinking Koolaid to mention Green. He's a streaky shooter.

I'm fine with Harden going to Philly, just don't think it'll get them out the East.

The only change a team not named Milwaukee got out of the east was if Harden, Durant, and Irving were all healthy and could all play 7 games. Now, ain't nobody got a shot.

 

[Tony Zimmermans Dennys Adversary]

Knicks vs 76ers on ABC right now. Anybody else watching? The Knicks are in full tank mode after shutting down Kemba Walker for the year, yet Thibs is still resistant to playing the young guys. My Knicks have been suffering some horrible losses lately after leading by 25+ points in several games. I'm not a Stephen A Smith fan but he recently had an epic meltdown after the Knicks led by 28 points against the depleted Nets last week. check this out.