OT: Pirates 2019 season

[PittPoker]

This is still April mind you and the team has now lost 8 games in a row. Cheapskate Nutting continued his yearly payroll purge since the 98 win squad in 2015 by shedding around $30 million or so this past offseason. It shows.

They are near the bottom in just about every offensive category and what would be a Clint Hurdle managed team without bad fundamentals and defense. Josh Bell and his horrendous throw to 2nd base yesterday was the latest example.

Add to that the fleecing that Tampa did with the Archer trade(Glasnow 5-0 and under 2.00 era and Meadows before getting hurt hitting .350 and 19 RBI's) and giving up 1st rounder Baz for a pitcher on a decline and the fact that Huntington still has a job is mindblowing. He can't draft, can't develop and why even bring Archer here if they weren't gonna bring in some bats in the offseason? Archer alone even if he was pitching well wasn't gonna help by himself.

Mlb should start an immediate investigation into Bob Nutting. Payroll decreased after record attendance from 2013-2015 and 98 wins. Why? The fans came so why was the team dismantled? Where did the $50 million BAM money go that each owner was given? Certainly not to help the Pirates in any facet. No it went in Nutting's pocket. Why is Hurdle and Huntington and for that matter Searage still here? They tow the company line? They are cheap? They don't question anything? They spin just the way Nutting likes it? Probably all of the above.

Bottom line is this: This team is bad. All the spin Huntington gave us in the offseason is a pure joke. They can't hit except for Cabrera and at times Bell and their pitching is already regressing. I see at least 90 losses and probably more. We as fans deserve much better.

 

[pbrad]

For me Searage is a head scratcher. Pitchers are mediocre here then go on to be pretty darn good elsewhere. Although it is early in his career, they better think about tying up Musgrove or his agent will have him out of here.

 

[PittPoker]

For me Searage is a head scratcher. Pitchers are mediocre here then go on to be pretty darn good elsewhere. Although it is early in his career, they better think about tying up Musgrove or his agent will have him out of here.

He was known early on as a guy who could help reclamation projects. I don't think he has made Taillon better though as the #2 pick.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

our center fielder is Pablo reyes.. think about that for a second..

we've been taught to realize how hard it is to become a major league baseball player, the skill you need, hard work and incredible talent and even if you have that, the incredible unlikelihood it is to make it to the big leagues.... then you realize, Pablo reyes is a major league baseball player.. and completely blows that mindset to pieces...

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

our center fielder is Pablo reyes.. think about that for a second..

To be fair, that's due to injuries (if he goes down, they're probably flipping a coin to decide whether they trot you or me out there), but the other observations in this thread are spot on.

 

[pittdan77]

This is still April mind you and the team has now lost 8 games in a row. Cheapskate Nutting continued his yearly payroll purge since the 98 win squad in 2015 by shedding around $30 million or so this past offseason. It shows.

They are near the bottom in just about every offensive category and what would be a Clint Hurdle managed team without bad fundamentals and defense. Josh Bell and his horrendous throw to 2nd base yesterday was the latest example.

Add to that the fleecing that Tampa did with the Archer trade(Glasnow 5-0 and under 2.00 era and Meadows before getting hurt hitting .350 and 19 RBI's) and giving up 1st rounder Baz for a pitcher on a decline and the fact that Huntington still has a job is mindblowing. He can't draft, can't develop and why even bring Archer here if they weren't gonna bring in some bats in the offseason? Archer alone even if he was pitching well wasn't gonna help by himself.

Mlb should start an immediate investigation into Bob Nutting. Payroll decreased after record attendance from 2013-2015 and 98 wins. Why? The fans came so why was the team dismantled? Where did the $50 million BAM money go that esch owner was given? Certainly not to help the Pirates in any facet. No it went in Nutting's pocket. Why is Hurdle and Huntington and for that matter Searage still here? They tow the company line? They are cheap? They don't question anything? They spin just the way Nutting likes it? Probably all of the above.

Bottom line is this: This team is bad. All the spin Huntington gave us in the offseason is a pure joke. They can't hit except for Cabrera and at times Bell and their pitching is already regressing. I see at least 90 losses and probably more. We as fans deserve much better.

You obviously can't appreciate the masterful genius this club and its ownership are displaying. Or so I've been told.

 

[Las Panteras]

I will probably get skewered for saying this but here goes....

I often think there is a "gentleman's agreement " among owners, that the big money large TV market teams will dominate and the have nots simply agree to go along....keep quiet....make little effort to win and get paid at the end of the day.

Sort of like the Globetrotters and the Washington Generals.

 

[Mikefln]

I will probably get skewered for saying this but here goes....

I often think there is a "gentleman's agreement " among owners, that the big money large TV market teams will dominate and the have nots simply agree to go along....keep quiet....make little effort to win and get paid at the end of the day.

Sort of like the Globetrotters and the Washington Generals.

Yes but Cleveland, A's, KC, Milwaukee etc find ways to be competitive. yes more times than not the NY teams/Boston/LA Teams/ Houston will win it all but other small market teams at least compete and win it every so often.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

You obviously can't appreciate the masterful genius this club and its ownership are displaying.

No, we can't.

 

[McKee Place]

8 game losing streak is always going to be a catalyst for disgust. But it IS early and they've gotten whacked with some key injuries. I certainly figured the team would be a non factor, but not a totally horrid team like they're showing now. Il say this though, in the few isolated innings I've seen in the course of scrolling channels, they (1) always display terrible, often comical defense and (2) the relief pitcher who happens to be pitching gets pahnded. It happened again yesterday, i happened to see the 7th? Inning, the Dodgers (who probably have fav baseball uniforms, btw) were given gift after gift, if not the relievers blowing continuous 0-2 counts and losing them to walks or hits on fat pitches, to the spectacle of Bell hitting the runner in the back with a throw on a routine grounder to first.

It was worth staying with it a while for the comedy, but that can only last so long before disgust and then plain apathy take over, and I switched away for good.

Anyway, I submit that they are certainly bad, but not as bad as currently showing. Kind of how Pitt was in the PSU 2nd half, or the UCF game, last year. Garbage for certain, but not always so odious.

Sigh. The comparisons with Pitt always come so logically and immediate when discussing the Pirates...

 

[pittdan77]

8 game losing streak is always going to be a catalyst for disgust. But it IS early and they've gotten whacked with some key injuries. I certainly figured the team would be a non factor, but not a totally horrid team like they're showing now. Il say this though, in the few isolated innings I've seen in the course of scrolling channels, they (1) always display terrible, often comical defense and (2) the relief pitcher who happens to be pitching gets pahnded. It happened again yesterday, i happened to see the 7th? Inning, the Dodgers (who probably have fav baseball uniforms, btw) were given gift after gift, if not the relievers blowing continuous 0-2 counts and losing them to walks or hits on fat pitches, to the spectacle of Bell hitting the runner in the back with a throw on a routine grounder to first.

It was worth staying with it a while for the comedy, but that can only last so long before disgust and then plain apathy take over, and I switched away for good.

Anyway, I submit that they are certainly bad, but not as bad as currently showing. Kind of how Pitt was in the PSU 2nd half, or the UCF game, last year. Garbage for certain, but not always so odious.

Sigh. The comparisons with Pitt always come so logically and immediate when discussing the Pirates...

Mediocre always looks the same.

 

[Cap pitt]

Look on the bright side, things can't possible get any worse. Only better. Go Bucs!!!!

 

[upj87]

This is still April mind you and the team has now lost 8 games in a row. Cheapskate Nutting continued his yearly payroll purge since the 98 win squad in 2015 by shedding around $30 million or so this past offseason. It shows.

They are near the bottom in just about every offensive category and what would be a Clint Hurdle managed team without bad fundamentals and defense. Josh Bell and his horrendous throw to 2nd base yesterday was the latest example.

Add to that the fleecing that Tampa did with the Archer trade(Glasnow 5-0 and under 2.00 era and Meadows before getting hurt hitting .350 and 19 RBI's) and giving up 1st rounder Baz for a pitcher on a decline and the fact that Huntington still has a job is mindblowing. He can't draft, can't develop and why even bring Archer here if they weren't gonna bring in some bats in the offseason? Archer alone even if he was pitching well wasn't gonna help by himself.

Mlb should start an immediate investigation into Bob Nutting. Payroll decreased after record attendance from 2013-2015 and 98 wins. Why? The fans came so why was the team dismantled? Where did the $50 million BAM money go that each owner was given? Certainly not to help the Pirates in any facet. No it went in Nutting's pocket. Why is Hurdle and Huntington and for that matter Searage still here? They tow the company line? They are cheap? They don't question anything? They spin just the way Nutting likes it? Probably all of the above.

Bottom line is this: This team is bad. All the spin Huntington gave us in the offseason is a pure joke. They can't hit except for Cabrera and at times Bell and their pitching is already regressing. I see at least 90 losses and probably more. We as fans deserve much better.

must have been hell for you waiting half a month when they were winning at a big clip...

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

two weeks ago, I posted how this starting rotation is sick, bell and Cabrera hitting ball good, Polanco coming back, Marte looks good and dare I say, I said this team is damn good.

Then clown runs into Marte, he's out.. staff goes to hell, we lose 8 in a row and im calling it a season. now, we put up a TD yesterday, Polanco is back, marte is back, bell and Cabrera, I like Reynolds. we are great again...

Lesson here. They aren't as bad as some of yinz think and they aren't as good as some of us think.

 

[wbrpanther]

This is still April mind you and the team has now lost 8 games in a row. Cheapskate Nutting continued his yearly payroll purge since the 98 win squad in 2015 by shedding around $30 million or so this past offseason. It shows.

They are near the bottom in just about every offensive category and what would be a Clint Hurdle managed team without bad fundamentals and defense. Josh Bell and his horrendous throw to 2nd base yesterday was the latest example.

Add to that the fleecing that Tampa did with the Archer trade(Glasnow 5-0 and under 2.00 era and Meadows before getting hurt hitting .350 and 19 RBI's) and giving up 1st rounder Baz for a pitcher on a decline and the fact that Huntington still has a job is mindblowing. He can't draft, can't develop and why even bring Archer here if they weren't gonna bring in some bats in the offseason? Archer alone even if he was pitching well wasn't gonna help by himself.

Mlb should start an immediate investigation into Bob Nutting. Payroll decreased after record attendance from 2013-2015 and 98 wins. Why? The fans came so why was the team dismantled? Where did the $50 million BAM money go that each owner was given? Certainly not to help the Pirates in any facet. No it went in Nutting's pocket. Why is Hurdle and Huntington and for that matter Searage still here? They tow the company line? They are cheap? They don't question anything? They spin just the way Nutting likes it? Probably all of the above.

Bottom line is this: This team is bad. All the spin Huntington gave us in the offseason is a pure joke. They can't hit except for Cabrera and at times Bell and their pitching is already regressing. I see at least 90 losses and probably more. We as fans deserve much better.

Bitching about a baseball season in April is like bitching about a football game in the first quarter, something else you do all the time.

 

[PittPoker]

Bitching about a baseball season in April is like bitching about a football game in the first quarter, something else you do all the time.

Wow pretty harsh and hurtful. The owner has a history of cheapness and the payroll is the 2nd lowest in the majors. The roster reeks of players that are either over the hill and can't play anymore or cheap guys that shouldn't be on a major league roster. I'm sorry you felt the need to attack me on my perspective of an organization that has a long track record. The Pirates won 98 games in 2015 and Nutting dismantled the team and shed payroll. This after record attendance. The avg payroll in mlb is close to $150 million and we are at $66 million 4 years later.

 

[wbrpanther]

Wow pretty harsh and hurtful. The owner has a history of cheapness and the payroll is the 2nd lowest in the majors. The roster reeks of players that are either over the hill and can't play anymore or cheap guys that shouldn't be on a major league roster. I'm sorry you felt the need to attack me on my perspective of an organization that has a long track record. The Pirates won 98 games in 2015 and Nutting dismantlesld the team and shed payroll. This after record attendance. The avg payroll in mlb is close to $150 million and we are at $66 million 4 years later.

Not attacking you on your perspective. You make fair points. Attacking you for judging the team in April. I personally think this team will be better than people think.

 

[PittPoker]

Not attacking you on your perspective. You make fair points. Attacking you for judging the team in April. I personally think this team will be better than people think.

Well I get what you're saying but I felt the need to write that after them losing 8 games in a row. That was my catalyst as they went from best record in NL at 12-6 due to their starting pitching to 12-14 and almost last place. It stung for me realizing that if we just a couple of decent bats we wouldn't have lost 8 in a row.

 

[caleco's]

Wow pretty harsh and hurtful. The owner has a history of cheapness and the payroll is the 2nd lowest in the majors. The roster reeks of players that are either over the hill and can't play anymore or cheap guys that shouldn't be on a major league roster. I'm sorry you felt the need to attack me on my perspective of an organization that has a long track record. The Pirates won 98 games in 2015 and Nutting dismantlesld the team and shed payroll. This after record attendance. The avg payroll in mlb is close to $150 million and we are at $66 million 4 years later.

Harsh and hurtful? Spoken like todays generation. Someone calls a spade a spade and suddenly they are hurtful.

You are a miserable poster who craps on everything he can. Its like this board is where you can come kick the dog when something doesnt go right in your life.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Not attacking you on your perspective. You make fair points. Attacking you for judging the team in April. I personally think this team will be better than people think.

This is a playoff team.
Unfortunately right now they're playing like a little league team.
This will change.
Pirate pitchers will soon stop throwing batting practice pitches in real games. Come on crank it up??? Not underhand throw the ball.
That's right sonny get in front of the ball.Use your forehead, pick up the ball, and throw it to first. Way to Go boy!
Get the lead runner, that's it, because now he can't score on the next batting practice pitch.
No, no, I said shield the sun with you hand when you in the outfield, don't cover your eyes and duck.
If Jung didn't have to run into the wind all the way from 1st to home we might have won the game.
Details, details, details.
We're almost there.
Signed: Clint H
We have the Central Division teams right where we want them in front of them
except for the Red River Rollers.

"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!

 

[anon_4dfwm2pijbr0a]

My thing about Glasnow is he had ample opportunities to separate himself and he failed to do so. Sure does suck that he found his grove but it's not like he didn't get his chance. Now Meadows, that is what pisses me off. He flashed promise in his short call up and they trade him. I'm sure Nutting doesn't care because he knows he won't have to worry about paying him in the future. The pitching is decent enough but Mr. Seven Springs didn't care enough to add to the offense.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

im starting to finally come to the realization that Archer is not a good Pitcher. he's ok, does get his strikeouts but he's a guy that is gonna give you 5 innings, get you 7-8 strikeouts but will give up a few home runs. He'll most likely not get shelled but he isn't pitching any shutouts either..

And again, if you are lucky, if he's on, you might get 6 innings from him but that's very unlikely. YOu pretty much have to realize that he will give you 5 innings and give up 2-3 runs in those 5 innings. If you can live with that, he's your man..

 

[FreeportPanther]

Couple of things.
Re: MLB investigating Nutting. LOL
Just recently MLB gave Nutting a full throated vote of confidence as one of the best and most respected owners in their fraternity. If you're waiting for MLB to put the squeeze on Nutting, good luck with that.

Now if the new contract comes up with a salary cap/salary floor, that may be helpful to squeeze a few more nickels out of Nutting's change purse. He is like the 3rd richest owner in MLB.

Re: Ray Searage and pitching philosophy.
The Pirates teach pitch to contact and play defense. Look for ground balls. Kind of funny for a team that runs out Bell and Kang/Red Beard on the corners and Frazier at 2nd base. Dick Stuart would look like a gold glove candidate compared to those two.

When Pitchers with good stuff and + fastballs get away from Pittsburgh, they trust their stuff and go for K's, not fish the edges for the "perfect" pitch. Several pitchers have improved dramatically leaving PIttsburgh.
In fairness, a few washed up pitchers have found new life coming TO PIttsburgh as well, so it's hard to judge this as strictly one or the other. More than likely depends on the talent and ability of the pitcher to execute the philosophy.

 

[anon_4dfwm2pijbr0a]

im starting to finally come to the realization that Archer is not a good Pitcher. he's ok, does get his strikeouts but he's a guy that is gonna give you 5 innings, get you 7-8 strikeouts but will give up a few home runs. He'll most likely not get shelled but he isn't pitching any shutouts either..

And again, if you are lucky, if he's on, you might get 6 innings from him but that's very unlikely. YOu pretty much have to realize that he will give you 5 innings and give up 2-3 runs in those 5 innings. If you can live with that, he's your man..

This why I think Archer isn't that good. Historically AL pitchers when coming to the NL have done well...if not well, better than when they were in the AL. Archer has not done that.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

This why I think Archer isn't that good. Historically AL pitchers when coming to the NL have done well...if not well, better than when they were in the AL. Archer has not done that.

yeah, im waiting for him to change too and im realizing that this is it. He will throw 20+ pitches per inning, this isn't a fluke, that's his style.. Good for the girl who puts the "K"s up at the game but not exactly what we need with our bullpen being garbage..

 

[maxxwell]

This is a playoff team.
Unfortunately right now they're playing like a little league team.
"it's five o'clock somewhere"
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go PITT & CSU Rams!

This is almost certainly not a playoff team. Had they given Huntington $25 million more to work with it may very well have been. 75-85 wins is likely where they’ll fall.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Archer isn't the pitcher he "was". Not a top of the lineup stud like he was billed, but at best a #3 starter at this point in his career.
So far, he's been pretty meh here.
Pirates got fleeced in this deal.

 

[pittdan77]

This is almost certainly not a playoff team. Had they given Huntington $25 million more to work with it may very well have been. 75-85 wins is likely where they’ll fall.

Cut him a break. It was early and he didn't take his medication yet.

 

[wbrpanther]

im starting to finally come to the realization that Archer is not a good Pitcher. he's ok, does get his strikeouts but he's a guy that is gonna give you 5 innings, get you 7-8 strikeouts but will give up a few home runs. He'll most likely not get shelled but he isn't pitching any shutouts either..

And again, if you are lucky, if he's on, you might get 6 innings from him but that's very unlikely. YOu pretty much have to realize that he will give you 5 innings and give up 2-3 runs in those 5 innings. If you can live with that, he's your man..

Archer's main problem is he throws too many pitches. If he finds the strike zone early he is very good. But too many 3-2 and 3-1 counts leads to a high pitch count and early exit. Simply too many walks.

 

[wbrpanther]

Archer isn't the pitcher he "was". Not a top of the lineup stud like he was billed, but at best a #3 starter at this point in his career.
So far, he's been pretty meh here.
Pirates got fleeced in this deal.

Looks that way right now. But Glasnow got ample opportunity to prove himself in Pittsburgh and who knows if he will continue to pitch like an ace. I'd say the jury is still out on this one.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Looks that way right now. But Glasnow got ample opportunity to prove himself in Pittsburgh and who knows if he will continue to pitch like an ace. I'd say the jury is still out on this one.

Giving up those three, including another #1 drafted player makes this a fleecing, period.

Worse yet, it will validate the Pirates policy of not dealing prospects for proven players.
They'll say, look what happened when we did this! It was a disaster, blah, blah, blah....

 

[FreeportPanther]

"Glasnow attributes his success primarily to a change in mentality, a switch to a more physical, aggressive approach and a marked increase in confidence allowing him to trust that his stuff is good enough."

Must have had the "Pitcher Whisperer" on mute.

 

[Panther Holla]

I will probably get skewered for saying this but here goes....

I often think there is a "gentleman's agreement " among owners, that the big money large TV market teams will dominate and the have nots simply agree to go along....keep quiet....make little effort to win and get paid at the end of the day.

Sort of like the Globetrotters and the Washington Generals.

There will always be Rich and Poor, Competitors and Doormats, Haves and Have Nots. The difference is how an owner sees himself, even if he isn't the New York Yankees. An owner with a burning desire to win will pursue victory relentlessly (as much as his resources will allow), and when he gets within sniffing distance he's likely to roll the dice and go for it.

And then there is Bob Nutting, content to be part of The Owners Club. A participant and willing co-conspirator to the competitive inequality that nonetheless makes him richer by the hour. He's not alone. The Pirates, Marlins and several other teams are merely schedule fillers for the elites.

This is not new to baseball. The Yankees historically used Kansas City (A's) and Washington as virtual farm clubs. They had more than enough resources and a deep farm system to fight off Boston, Detroit, Chicago or Cleveland whenever one of those franchises made a run.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Couple of things.
Re: MLB investigating Nutting. LOL
Just recently MLB gave Nutting a full throated vote of confidence as one of the best and most respected owners in their fraternity. If you're waiting for MLB to put the squeeze on Nutting, good luck with that.

Now if the new contract comes up with a salary cap/salary floor, that may be helpful to squeeze a few more nickels out of Nutting's change purse. He is like the 3rd richest owner in MLB.

Re: Ray Searage and pitching philosophy.
The Pirates teach pitch to contact and play defense. Look for ground balls. Kind of funny for a team that runs out Bell and Kang/Red Beard on the corners and Frazier at 2nd base. Dick Stuart would look like a gold glove candidate compared to those two.

When Pitchers with good stuff and + fastballs get away from Pittsburgh, they trust their stuff and go for K's, not fish the edges for the "perfect" pitch. Several pitchers have improved dramatically leaving PIttsburgh.
In fairness, a few washed up pitchers have found new life coming TO PIttsburgh as well, so it's hard to judge this as strictly one or the other. More than likely depends on the talent and ability of the pitcher to execute the philosophy.

What would they investigate Nutting for increasing the value of his franchise and making money as an owner of an MLB franchise.
Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

You have two choices:
Go to the games
Don't go to the game

I choose to go to the games its MLBaseball!

 

[Delpanther]

What would they investigate Nutting for increasing the value of his franchise and making money as an owner of an MLB franchise.
Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

You have two choices:
Go to the games
Don't go to the game

I choose to go to the games its MLBaseball!

Investigating him for not caring a whit about winning in a stadium paid for by the citizenry of Pittsburgh..., he’s worthless! Pittsburgh would be better off without baseball than a team which is a mere front for fireworks displays, bobble head giveaways and smorgasbords for the obese in the tri-State area.

 

[FreeportPanther]

What would they investigate Nutting for increasing the value of his franchise and making money as an owner of an MLB franchise.
Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

You have two choices:
Go to the games
Don't go to the game

I choose to go to the games its MLBaseball!

I was responding to the call for investigation in the OP.
And I don't go to games.

 

[maxxwell]

On Nutting and other clubs/ like h

You have two choices:
Go to the games
Don't go to the game

I choose to go to the games its MLBaseball!

I still go to games, too, just not nearly as many. Most years I don’t buy from the Pirates, either. Secondary market for me. But, while I like the team, I’ve come to pretty much despise Nutting.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

On Nutting and other clubs/ like h

I still go to games, too, just not nearly as many. Most years I don’t buy from the Pirates, either. Secondary market for me. But, while I like the team, I’ve come to pretty much despise Nutting.

This is the American way.
You can decide if you want to go or not go to games.
You can also decide who to despise and actually post it without fear of execution.
I like it!
I don't like No Nuts much either but somehow he's has a formula that works.
But Mrs Buffett and I like baseball, we like the Pirates, so I guess we're two of the reasons No Nuts formula works!

 

[HOF Coach]

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

View embedded media

The guy got there after Madden.