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OT: Rolling Stone Remakes its Top 500

Interesting takes. This list is trash. Joni Mitchell at 3. Foh. Lauryn Hill has the best hip hop album?!?! News to me, a 35 year vet of hip hop. Nirvana 6?!?! Hell to the naw. Garbage ass Radiohead has 2 albums better than ANY Led Zeppelin record.

This list makes me angry. I get being a musician

There are definitely some very curious choices on this list. For what it's worth, I'm OK with Nevermind at 6, but like you said, even though a wonderful album, there is absolutely no way Lauryn Hill is #10 (maybe top 200). And Blue at #3 is an incredible fail.
 
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I tend to agree with most of your thoughts.

I am not quite sure that Kanye is the most influential artist since 2000, but I think the two records of his on this list clearly deserve to be on the list, in the order where they were ranked and with the spacing between them. Was My Twisted a top 20 album of all-time? I do not think so. But, it certainly was a top 50-100 and is representative of his best work.

The guy is crazy as hell and in certain ways he is not musical like say The Beatles or Prince or D'Angelo or (insert name of artist that actually plays instruments), but his sound has been tremendously impactful and of mostly excellent quality since his first album.

Sgt. Pepper and the White Album were better than The Beatles stuff listed ahead of it, which were also great albums. Just not as good. I am not sure how the White Album went from nearly always being the #1 record ever to somewhere in the top 50 over the past 20 years. Nothing around it truly changes, but I guess the perception of it has changed.

I completely agree on Radiohead. OK Computer, In Rainbows ... I even think that Hail to the Thief was better than Kid A, which is a great record, just not their best.

Really surprised that The Dark Side of the Moon is so low.

With Kendrick Lamar, I think good kid, m.A.A.d city was his best record, but To Pimp a Butterfly was more socially relevant given its timing. Both excellent, as was DAMN.

I do not think those OutKast records deserve to be on this list. Speakerboxx/The Love Below generally has been regarded as their best record. And really, it is The Love Below, if anything they have made, that deserves to be on this list.

Reasonable Doubt was a great record, but it pales to The Blueprint, I think. Jay Z has always been great at proclaiming things and having people go along with it. It is a great talent of his and he has always talked about Reasonable Doubt (which is a very good record). But, The Blueprint was easily his best and should be on this list.

I think 1999 is better than Purple Rain, but sort of like with Kendrick, Purple Rain was more socially/culturally significant.

Finally, Drake had best playlist records than Take Care. If You're Reading This Its Too Late is probably his best work (and most controversial).
Again, not disputing what is great....but TOP 100 OF ALL TIME! I know any of these lists are subjective, and there are certain albums that have achieved legendary status that they merit inclusion on any of them, but I think there was some way too personal and too attempt to stack the list with hip hop artists who in many cases, were previously disregarded except for those truly ground breaking albums.

I mean, if you are talking truly influential and groundbreaking, wouldn't the Sugar Hill Gang or Digital Underground be on this list? That really kind of started the whole genre.
 
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These type of lists are too subjective. They need to be at the least based upon a specific genre.

Agree. When you start mixing genres, it's like comparing Michael Jordan to Tom Brady to Wayne Gretzky to Tiger Woods to Adam Frazier.

I don't have a good pulse for hip hop. After looking at this list, I listened to that Lauryn Hill album and thought it was pretty good, and then I listened to that Kanye album and thought it was kind of mundane and some of the lyrics were embarrassingly childish. But two other people in this thread have said the latter is much better. I'm sure they're opinions matter more, as they are more plugged in.

Then again, I'm a rock fans who can't stand the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, ACDC, and many other traditional fan favorites, so maybe my opinions just shouldn't matter in general, ha.
 
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At least Lucinda Williams is ahead of Taylor Swift, so they got something right.

I have those Miles and Coltrane albums in my collection, but they feel like token inclusions in this list. Why not stick in a few blues or reggae or classical albums if they were going to do that.
 
Agree. When you start mixing genres, it's like comparing Michael Jordan to Tom Brady to Wayne Gretzky to Tiger Woods to Adam Frazier.

I don't have a good pulse for hip hop. After looking at this list, I listened to that Lauryn Hill album and thought it was pretty good, and then I listened to that Kanye album and thought it was kind of mundane and some of the lyrics were embarrassingly childish. But two other people in this thread have said the latter is much better. I'm sure they're opinions matter more, as they are more plugged in.

Then again, I'm a rock fans who can't stand the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, ACDC, and many other traditional fan favorites, so maybe my opinions just shouldn't matter in general, ha.
Elvis fan I take it?

I'm the opposite. I'm a big fan of the first three. But, different strokes for different folks, right?

And I really do like The Strokes.
 
Elvis fan I take it?

I'm the opposite. I'm a big fan of the first three. But, different strokes for different folks, right?

And I really do like The Strokes.

Yup. Just too subjective. For me, I've always more than willingly acknowledged the cultural impact of the Beatles. But as musicians? I think they're profoundly overrated and don't deserve to be on any of these lists.
 
Again, not disputing what is great....but TOP 100 OF ALL TIME! I know any of these lists are subjective, and there are certain albums that have achieved legendary status that they merit inclusion on any of them, but I think there was some way too personal and too attempt to stack the list with hip hop artists who in many cases, were previously disregarded except for those truly ground breaking albums.

I mean, if you are talking truly influential and groundbreaking, wouldn't the Sugar Hill Gang or Digital Underground be on this list? That really kind of started the whole genre.


Sugar Hill gang came into existence because a record exec heard Big Bank Hank reciting rhymes from Grandmaster Caz. They are mistakenly credited with the birth of hip hop. Too Short and Hammer had way more to do with putting the Bay on the map than the Underground.
 
Yup. Just too subjective. For me, I've always more than willingly acknowledged the cultural impact of the Beatles. But as musicians? I think they're profoundly overrated and don't deserve to be on any of these lists.
Agree. They were basically just a garage band; but they came at the right time, had a great producer and could sing/harmonize. The latter, IMO, is something that's been lost in today's music.
 
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Yeah, I see the recency bias with Beyoncé, Kendrick Lamar, Taylor Swift et al. But not sure how that one got there.

Ten incredibly influential but easy to argue that Vitology and Vs. we're better. I never got the Nirvana/Kurt Colbain love especially with Dave Grohl appearing to eclipse Colbain.
 
Ten incredibly influential but easy to argue that Vitology and Vs. we're better. I never got the Nirvana/Kurt Colbain love especially with Dave Grohl appearing to eclipse Colbain.
Grohl is a better musician -
But foo fighters aren’t influential .
Let’s be honest - nevermind changed the course of pop music
It has more in common with say Black Sabbath’s first album or Run DMC’ raising hell album
 
Grohl is a better musician -
But foo fighters aren’t influential .
Let’s be honest - nevermind changed the course of pop music
It has more in common with say Black Sabbath’s first album or Run DMC’ raising hell album

Indeed. Nevermind was one of a few "moments" in pop history. The Foo's have never created a "moment."
 
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Indeed. Nevermind was one of a few "moments" in pop history. The Foo's have never created a "moment."
The Foo's are good, really have had a great career and the fact that Grohl wrote every song and played every instrument on the debut album, then went out to find a band says alot about his talent. But you guys are right, they never were anything definitive as far as rock music goes, aside from being commercially successful.
 
I agree nirvana had a moment but I still have no idea why. I never got them but I guess that's why they say taste is objective.
 
List is the same as always, whatever social issues are out makes the album suddenly better. Weeks on the chart, adjusted sales, all that kinda should be used.
I think if you asked your random person for a top 25, it wouldn’t even be close to this. Plus really you can’t judge the last 10 years, you really have to see if the music transcends time. Or else Frampton live and disco woulda been in the top 10 in 1980.

In summary, it’s trash and not really even worth the discussion... for chrissakes, The Wall isn’t even on the list. I’d be fine with Thriller being number one.
 
I agree nirvana had a moment but I still have no idea why. I never got them but I guess that's why they say taste is objective.

people act like Nevermind started grunge. Certainly not true, great album, sure, but it was released after 10, and Both were released far after other grunge bands.
 
I agree nirvana had a moment but I still have no idea why. I never got them but I guess that's why they say taste is objective.

I'm not the biggest Nirvana fan, but, even removing the cultural significance of that album, I think it's pretty damn catchy. The first 5 songs come out of the gate pretty intense, and they're all really good (for what they are). The back half is a little weaker, but there's still not a song on it that I wouldn't consider to be very catchy. And then I've always dug the closer, Something in the Way.

Now, that's mostly a youthful me speaking. If I were to go analyze the lyrics or something today, I'm sure I would cringe. And I realize the music is fairly simple (something that never bothered me about any artist - I'm more about the songwriting). But some of those songs (Smells Like Teen Spirit, Come As You Are, Lithium, In Bloom) were pretty powerful anthems in their time... albeit probably only for people under a certain age (no different from Taylor Swift, I guess).
 
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people act like Nevermind started grunge. Certainly not true, great album, sure, but it was released after 10, and Both were released far after other grunge bands.

mudhoney
 
Nirvana isn’t and wasn’t grunge -
They were a punk band .
Grunge was just casual metal without all the pomp

They had punk elements, as many non-punk bands do (the comparisons will be there any time you play a four chord style and play fast). But they were grunge. Everyone and their mother recognizes this, except for hot take crowd.
 
They had punk elements, as many non-punk bands do (the comparisons will be there any time you play a four chord style and play fast). But they were grunge. Everyone and their mother recognizes this, except for hot take crowd.
What is grunge ?
Wearing flanel? Being from Seattle ?
Guess it’s subjective -
But nirvana doesn’t have much in common with sound garden , Pearl Jam , or even screaming trees or mud honey

They have more in common with the pixies and hardcore bands like the Melvins , Flipper ,black flag and fugazi

not really a hot take to recognize their music for what it was
 
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What is grunge ?
Wearing flanel? Being from Seattle ?
Guess it’s subjective -
But nirvana doesn’t have much in common with sound garden , Pearl Jam , or even screaming trees or mud honey

They have more in common with the pixies and hardcore bands like the Melvins , Flipper , and fugazi

not really a hot take to recognize their music for what it was

Or is Nirvana a grunge band with punk/other elements, whereas some of those other bands are grunge bands with rock/other elements? You can't name any two other bands from the same genre who don't really sound similar? I mean...
 
The Foo's are good, really have had a great career and the fact that Grohl wrote every song and played every instrument on the debut album, then went out to find a band says alot about his talent. But you guys are right, they never were anything definitive as far as rock music goes, aside from being commercially successful.

I completely agree as well.

One of the more interesting things that I would advise anyone into Grohl to listen to is him talking about Cobain. Grohl is a tremendous musician who basically was catalyst for Nirvana (until he arrived, they were more middling, they need his skill on the drums to make it all come together).

Grohl talks a lot about how he feared Cobain's talent, because he was that melodic and musical. He was afraid to even approach him with suggestions much of the time. I know that they were young (and Cobain had 5-6 years on Grohl), but this is Dave Grohl we are talking about. It says a lot as to Cobain's overall talent.

Nirvana had a 3 year run that maybe no other rock groups (or any groups for that matter) have had except for The Beatles or The Stones. And, Nevermind changed music; everything became more whiny and pop-like after Cobain (which may not be good, but just is).

That record belongs on any music top 10. It probably should be higher on that list.
 
Again, not disputing what is great....but TOP 100 OF ALL TIME! I know any of these lists are subjective, and there are certain albums that have achieved legendary status that they merit inclusion on any of them, but I think there was some way too personal and too attempt to stack the list with hip hop artists who in many cases, were previously disregarded except for those truly ground breaking albums.

I mean, if you are talking truly influential and groundbreaking, wouldn't the Sugar Hill Gang or Digital Underground be on this list? That really kind of started the whole genre.

I will stand on the words; I think My Twisted belongs on a top 100 list. The other one was certainly a great record, but if it were not on the list I think it would be fine.

With Kanye, it is more about sound than lyrics. His sound is quite incredible when he is at his best. And, this is coming from someone that just cannot stand him all that much as a person and does not like lyrics for the most part (I think that they are often juvenile and overly simplistic).
 
Interesting takes. This list is trash. Joni Mitchell at 3. Foh. Lauryn Hill has the best hip hop album?!?! News to me, a 35 year vet of hip hop. Nirvana 6?!?! Hell to the naw. Garbage ass Radiohead has 2 albums better than ANY Led Zeppelin record.

This list makes me angry. I get being a musician

So, I do not have a problem with Lauryn Hill's album being that high; I think it was a masterpiece. Tastes differ I guess. But, I do not have a problem with saying it is on the shortlist of best hip hop records of all time.
 
Lol. Check all the boxes.

If you want to put the biggest rap and hip hop albums how do you not include Raising Hell? Marshall Mathers LP? Tupac also probably has a couple albums better than anything Nas ever put out.

Licensed to Ill would be there to, but that is sort of frowned upon now and I’m sure the Beasties themselves would put Paul’s Boutique Ahead of it. Both were better and more innovative than a lot of stuff listed.

I actually think The Bends should be on there before Kid A.

Nothing against Frank Ocean or Amy Winehouse but Pearl Jam Ten was a far bigger and more important album.

I love Miles and Coletrane but cmon.
Giant steps is far superior to Love Supreme for Coltrane
Triple , triple X
 
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