OT: the mighty Dukes crash & burning again

[KennyTheKangaroo]

That's along the lines of "40 points vs. Team USA". I never understood the infatuation with him when he was hired. They built him up like he was the second coming of Coach K.

Dude went to three NCAATs and three NITs in his time there. Won conference tournaments. never had a losing season in the MAC. Akron has only played D-I since 1980 but its only non Dambrot NCAAT appearance came in 1986. So he definitely did something there.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Dude went to three NCAATs and three NITs in his time there. Won conference tournaments. never had a losing season in the MAC. Akron has only played D-I since 1980 but its only non Dambrot NCAAT appearance came in 1986. So he definitely did something there.

Dambrot is a really good coach. He simply hasn't been able to retain his good players and hasn't recruited at the level he needs to.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Outside of parochial folks who are obsessed with Catholic education -
Nobody elsewhere has any idea where Duquesne is or have even heard of it .

it’s a coaching graveyard

That's why I suggested Huggins over a decade ago and Sean Miller now. They had/have nothing to lose.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It is if you separate out conferences as “high majors,” “mid majors,” and “low majors.” There are a bunch of sub-tiers of mid and low majors, but I equate “high majors” as the “power 5 plus the Big East,” which makes the A10 one of the better mid majors (along with the AAC, MAC, Mountain West, WCC, etc.)

You are going to find out that SMF thinks that the way he classifies the teams, which is basically different than the way that everyone else does, is the only way to do it.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

BTW, I don't know if anyone noticed it but Robert Morris lost to IUPUI last night. At home. By 10 points.

For those who don't know, IUPUI is ranked last in both the NET rankings and in the Pomeroy rankings, even after beating Robert Morris. Not last in the Horizon. Last in the NCAA. The win improved their record to 3-22. The other two wins were against Spalding and East West. And no, I did not make up the names of those two schools. They are, apparently, real schools with real basketball teams.

Oh, yeah, one other thing. Due to injuries IUPUI is down to six players on the team. They recently put out a call to the student body for tryouts, just so they could have some players at practice.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You are going to find out that SMF thinks that the way he classifies the teams, which is basically different than the way that everyone else does, is the only way to do it.

And it is correct. Calling the A10 a mid-major, the same as the Horizon is ludicrous. The A10, American, and Mountain West aren't even close to mid-majors. Those are are multi-bid leagues, often with Top 25 teams and sometimes with very high NCAAT seeds.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

And it is correct.

When you use a term differently than everyone else does the chances that you are the one that is right and everyone else is wrong is, well, nil.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Lol even the A10 doesn't care about Duquesne

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

BTW, I don't know if anyone noticed it but Robert Morris lost to IUPUI last night. At home. By 10 points.

For those who don't know, IUPUI is ranked last in both the NET rankings and in the Pomeroy rankings, even after beating Robert Morris. Not last in the Horizon. Last in the NCAA. The win improved their record to 3-22. The other two wins were against Spalding and East West. And no, I did not make up the names of those two schools. They are, apparently, real schools with real basketball teams.

Oh, yeah, one other thing. Due to injuries IUPUI is down to six players on the team. They recently put out a call to the student body for tryouts, just so they could have some players at practice.

You're right didn't notice but wow that is really inept. Two nice new arenas going to waste at RMU and Duquesne

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

When you use a term differently than everyone else does the chances that you are the one that is right and everyone else is wrong is, well, nil.

Nobody who knows a thing about college basketball considers the A10 and American mid-major conferences. Nobody. You lose this one, Joey.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Nobody who knows a thing about college basketball considers the A10 and American mid-major conferences. Nobody.

That's an odd thing to say when the person that you originally responded to here in this thread said the exact same thing as me.

Like I said, just because you have decided that the words that people use mean something different than how everyone else uses them doesn't mean that you are right. The A10 and the American are, in fact, the definition of mid-majors. As an example, the guy who does the mid-major top 10 every week for ESPN had two A10 teams in his rankings just last week.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Nobody who knows a thing about college basketball considers the A10 and American mid-major conferences. Nobody. You lose this one, Joey.

It’s exactly what they are- mid major conferences

 

[buckage]

Lost in our disappointing season is that Duquesne has now lost 9 in a row and I believe Dambrot has been here longer than Capel. Man, we think we have it bad. He seemed like a home run hire for the Dukes, now appears to be joining the long list of loser coaches at the program. Truly a school where coaches go to commit career suicide. If he can't do it, who can? But I've posted before, the lack of local talent from the Hill, which practically sits in their backyard, handicaps their program greatly. More so than Pitt in that Pitt has a better chance at recruiting nationally.

Funny, Pittsburgh media was all concerned when Pitt didn't want to play them anymore, defending poor Duquesne. So where is the media outrage at the performance being turned in by Dambrot & company? Pretty much crickets and back to irrelevance for them, unless of course more faux outrage should occur due to Pitt.

The Portal will kill teams like Duquesne.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

The Portal will kill teams like Duquesne.

 

[Panther Holla]

On Duquesne: For many years the AD reported to the VP of Student Life, a native Irish priest who knew more about missionary work overseas than he did about overseeing an intercollegiate athletics program. The leash on the ADs was short and tight. Duquesne gave varsity sports all the autonomy of an intramural league. Add to it a 1950s Catholic school mentality (girls are the root of all evil) and it is easy to see why DU flopped once basketball took a downturn. (It was funny that whenever a DU coach managed to beat Pitt, he got canned at the end of that year.) I have no love for Duquesne -- hope it slides off the Bluff into the Mon. That said, Pitt ought to play them annually, and RoMoCo, too.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

That's an odd thing to say when the person that you originally responded to here in this thread said the exact same thing as me.

Like I said, just because you have decided that the words that people use mean something different than how everyone else uses them doesn't mean that you are right. The A10 and the American are, in fact, the definition of mid-majors. As an example, the guy who does the mid-major top 10 every week for ESPN had two A10 teams in his rankings just last week.

That is great. And those people don't understand college basketball. Memphis, Cincinnati, Wichita, Temple, VCU, Dayton, San Diego State, BYU, Gonzaga, etc do not play in mid-major leagues. They play in multi-bid high major leagues. Mid-major leagues are 1 bid leagues the vast majority of the time but get 11-14 seeds, potentially a 15 seed. Low majors are the ones who get the 16 seeds (NEC, MEAC, SWAC, etc). I am right. There's no debate. The A10 and American are not the same as the Ohio Valley Conference. There's a level between the ACC and OVC and that's the high major level.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

That is great. And those people don't understand college basketball. Memphis, Cincinnati, Wichita, Temple, VCU, Dayton, San Diego State, BYU, Gonzaga, etc do not play in mid-major leagues. They play in multi-bid high major leagues. Mid-major leagues are 1 bid leagues the vast majority of the time but get 11-14 seeds, potentially a 15 seed. Low majors are the ones who get the 16 seeds (NEC, MEAC, SWAC, etc). I am right. There's no debate. The A10 and American are not the same as the Ohio Valley Conference. There's a level between the ACC and OVC and that's the high major level.

Most of the time I laugh at SMF's "I am right. There's no debate" attitude, but . . . this time, he is right.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

Dambrot is a really good coach. He simply hasn't been able to retain his good players and hasn't recruited at the level he needs to.

I agree. Which confirms what I have thought for a while -- Duquesne is a really hard job to win at. And the portal made it even tougher. Coming up on 50 years without an NCAA bid.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

And those people don't understand college basketball.

So to recap, the guy who writes about mid-major college basketball for ESPN doesn't understand mid-major college basketball, but you do.

And you wonder why people think you're nuts.

 

[PittPharm2002]

Most of the time I laugh at SMF's "I am right. There's no debate" attitude, but . . . this time, he is right.

He’s not -
Mid majors by definition aren’t getting multiple bids every season

A quick look - A10 has Has 2 bids twice in the past 5 seasons

Same with mvc, and wcc

if your league ain’t perennially getting multiple bids - it’s a mid major.
If you’re uncertain to have multiple bids if your best team wins the autobid- you’re a mid major conference

high majors are the p5 and big east
That’s it , that’s the list

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

He’s not -
Mid majors by definition aren’t getting multiple bids every season

A quick look - A10 has Has 2 bids twice in the past 5 seasons

Same with mvc, and wcc

if your league ain’t perennially getting multiple bids - it’s a mid major.
If you’re uncertain to have multiple bids if your best team wins the autobid- you’re a mid major conference

high majors are the p5 and big east
That’s it , that’s the list

The whole concept that there are programs that are better than mid-major but they play in a conference that is mid-major completely boggles his mind. He simply cannot reconcile in his mind the fact that while the WCC is a mid-major league Gonzaga most certainly is not a mid-major program.

 

[PittPharm2002]

The whole concept that there are programs that are better than mid-major but they play in a conference that is mid-major completely boggles his mind. He simply cannot reconcile in his mind the fact that while the WCC is a mid-major league Gonzaga most certainly is not a mid-major program.

Must be
Butler was one of the best teams two years in row - didn’t make the horizon a Major conference . Gonzaga is a power program in a mid major conference

the acc is really down this year -
Which means only 3 maybe 4 bids

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

On Duquesne: For many years the AD reported to the VP of Student Life, a native Irish priest who knew more about missionary work overseas than he did about overseeing an intercollegiate athletics program. The leash on the ADs was short and tight. Duquesne gave varsity sports all the autonomy of an intramural league. Add to it a 1950s Catholic school mentality (girls are the root of all evil) and it is easy to see why DU flopped once basketball took a downturn. (It was funny that whenever a DU coach managed to beat Pitt, he got canned at the end of that year.) I have no love for Duquesne -- hope it slides off the Bluff into the Mon. That said, Pitt ought to play them annually, and RoMoCo, too.

lol, I remember that, but it changed a long time ago, I think when Murray (former Pitt law school dean) became president that changed. Murray did a lot to fix Duquesne, and seemed like basketball would be one of those things. Colleary as AD and John Carroll as coach. Both followed the usual dukes crash & burn pattern. But we think we have problems with loser AD's, the Dukes say "hold my beer!"

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

He’s not -
Mid majors by definition aren’t getting multiple bids every season

A quick look - A10 has Has 2 bids twice in the past 5 seasons

Same with mvc, and wcc

if your league ain’t perennially getting multiple bids - it’s a mid major.
If you’re uncertain to have multiple bids if your best team wins the autobid- you’re a mid major conference

high majors are the p5 and big east
That’s it , that’s the list

These "high major" lists are sort of blurry year to year. There are multiple AAC teams that could compete for a national title. I wouldn't be surprised to see Houston win one soon even. The Mountain West has higher computer rankings than the ACC this year (obviously the ACC is typically stronger.) And even if you're not in a high major conference ("the Gonzaga exception"), you can win a national title.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

These "high major" lists are sort of blurry year to year. There are multiple AAC teams that could compete for a national title. I wouldn't be surprised to see Houston win one soon even. The Mountain West has higher computer rankings than the ACC this year (obviously the ACC is typically stronger.) And even if you're not in a high major conference ("the Gonzaga exception"), you can win a national title.

There ARE multiple ACC teams that could compete for a national title. Because there are teams in mid-major leagues that are better than mid-major programs.

There is a difference between the standing of a program than the standing of the league that they are in. Gonzaga is the perfect example of that. National championship contender, mid-major league. The fact that some people can't understand that it is possible for a program to be at a different level than the league they are in boggles the mind.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

So to recap, the guy who writes about mid-major college basketball for ESPN doesn't understand mid-major college basketball, but you do.

And you wonder why people think you're nuts.

Yes. I know more than most of those people. I was watching a game recently where the 2 commentators debating on whether a player should miss a FT intentionally UP BY 3 so that the opposing team would have to make a 70 footer to tie.

I repeat, anyone who thinks the A10 or American Athletic are mid-major leagues doesn't know college basketball

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

He’s not -
Mid majors by definition aren’t getting multiple bids every season

A quick look - A10 has Has 2 bids twice in the past 5 seasons

Same with mvc, and wcc

if your league ain’t perennially getting multiple bids - it’s a mid major.
If you’re uncertain to have multiple bids if your best team wins the autobid- you’re a mid major conference

high majors are the p5 and big east
That’s it , that’s the list

So is the American and MWC mid-majors then. Joe says so.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Joe says so.

Yes, Joe and just about all the college basketball commentators in the country do say so.

Like I said, just because you want to act like terms mean something different than the way that everyone else uses them doesn't make you right. It makes you goofy.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yes, Joe and just about all the college basketball commentators in the country do say so.

Like I said, just because you want to act like terms mean something different than the way that everyone else uses them doesn't make you right. It makes you goofy.

Do you realize how dumb a lot of those people are? Phys. Ed. and Communications majors. I would say most people on this board know more about college basketball than just about everyone you see on TV except for a few here and there. Their lack of basic college hoops knowledge is astounding.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Do you realize how dumb a lot of those people are?

Do you realize how dumb.....

Hmmm, I better not.

 

[PittPharm2002]

These "high major" lists are sort of blurry year to year. There are multiple AAC teams that could compete for a national title. I wouldn't be surprised to see Houston win one soon even. The Mountain West has higher computer rankings than the ACC this year (obviously the ACC is typically stronger.) And even if you're not in a high major conference ("the Gonzaga exception"), you can win a national title.

Correct

certainly plenty of legit national title

So is the American and MWC mid-majors then. Joe says so.

yes absolutely
As noted the conference is a mid major because they don’t get multiple (2-3)bids every year

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Really good interview with the Duquesne AD. He was very candid. Pretty much said Dambrot has 1 more year to get it fixed. Not sure I've ever heard an AD be this honest about a program without a change being made.

Dave Harper Outlines Expectations For Duquesne Men’s Basketball

Following Saturday’s Duquesne Women’s Basketball game against Saint Joseph’s, PSN’s Zachary Weiss exclusively sat down with Duquesne Vice President of Athletics Dave Harper to discuss the men’s basketball program. Harper confirmed Jon Rothstein’s tweet that Keith Dambrot would return to the...

pittsburghsportsnow.com

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Really good interview with the Duquesne AD. He was very candid. Pretty much said Dambrot has 1 more year to get it fixed. Not sure I've ever heard an AD be this honest about a program without a change being made.

Dave Harper Outlines Expectations For Duquesne Men’s Basketball

Following Saturday’s Duquesne Women’s Basketball game against Saint Joseph’s, PSN’s Zachary Weiss exclusively sat down with Duquesne Vice President of Athletics Dave Harper to discuss the men’s basketball program. Harper confirmed Jon Rothstein’s tweet that Keith Dambrot would return to the...

pittsburghsportsnow.com

wow, not exactly a vote of confidence from the AD:

Zac Weiss: Jon Rothstein broke the news that Keith Dambrot would return as Duquesne’s Men’s Basketball coach next season, how important is it to make this publicly known now?

Dave Harper: I’ve never had a focus on anything on than that. We’re in a circumstance that is unacceptable for everyone involved and you have to embrace it and fix it. That’s what we’re focusing on. If it doesn’t get fixed, then things need to be changed.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

wow, not exactly a vote of confidence from the AD:

Zac Weiss: Jon Rothstein broke the news that Keith Dambrot would return as Duquesne’s Men’s Basketball coach next season, how important is it to make this publicly known now?

Dave Harper: I’ve never had a focus on anything on than that. We’re in a circumstance that is unacceptable for everyone involved and you have to embrace it and fix it. That’s what we’re focusing on. If it doesn’t get fixed, then things need to be changed.

Yea, I've never heard an AD be that direct and honest. He is saying Dambrot will be fired next year if the team doesn't improve a lot.