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OT: The Pens

Not having a good feeling on this game . Hope i'm wrong ..
The " Great 8 " handing out checks like it's the first of the month ...
 
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Ovechkin never moved on that goal. Literally stood in one place and didn’t move one inch for like 30 seconds. How does that happen. Unreal.
 
After the overtime loss, I'm just not seeing anything special they have to make.up ground on the competition. Today's was a good effort, but ultimately fell short again.
 
This was one of those coinflip games. They played mostly well. I hate the shootout anymore. For one, there should be a timer on how long it takes to get off a shot. But they have become so random.
 
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After the overtime loss, I'm just not seeing anything special they have to make.up ground on the competition. Today's was a good effort, but ultimately fell short again.
The fluke win the other night aside, this team is doomed if it can’t win in regulation. Insane how bad it is in OT and shootouts. With the latter, it might be getting to be a Steve Blass thing with this team now. The sole remote reason to have Malkin at all should be shootouts. He should never fail. Sid, Letang too. Ridiculous.
 
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The fluke win the other night aside, this team is doomed if it can’t win in regulation. Insane how bad it is in OT and shootouts. With the latter, it might be getting to be a Steve Blass thing with this team now. The sole remote reason to have Malkin at all should be shootouts. He should never fail. Sid, Letang too. Ridiculous.
You understand the best at shootouts fail more than they succeed right ?

The pens as a team have the second highest % in the nhl at 57% behind Montreal’s 66%
Everyone else is 50% or lower

Context matters
 
This was one of those coinflip games. They played mostly well. I hate the shootout anymore. For one, there should be a timer on how long it takes to get off a shot. But they have become so random.
A few comments ......
- I didn't think they played very well in the first period where they were outshot 22-8 but played well after that and agree with you that overall they played mostly well.

- Also totally agree with you and have been telling friends this for a couple years now that they are going to need to consider a timer for each skater to get the shot off in the shootout ...... shooters are slowing it down to a crawl and getting so close to the goalie waiting for him to make the first move and then shooting bullets at the goalie from 5 feet away ....... making the save is becoming more luck than skill.

- Casey DeSmith has been bashed pretty hard by the board and rightfully so at times but I think we should give him some credit for a truly outstanding performance last night ..... 43 saves on 45 shots, the two goals he gave up were a one timer by Ovie on a pass across during a PP when Poehling left Ovie wide open and then a shot that was deflected by a Pens stick and changed direction so CDS could not adjust his glove fast enough to make the save (no bad/soft goals), he faced 18 High Danger/Grade A shots which is an extremely high number and saved all 18 which is phenomenal ..... this was truly a game where a goalie gave his team a chance to win ...... CDS has been inconsistent this season but if you look at his overall advanced stats, his delta SV% is +0.4 which is #18 out of 36 goalies with the highest playing time (and means his SV% is 0.4% higher than an average NHL goalies SV% would be if they faced the same shots CDS did) ..... for comparison Jarry is #12 out of 36 goalies in delta SV% ........ CDS is also #18/36 in GSAx (Goals Saved Above Expexted) with a + 3.58 which means he has saved 3.58 more goals than an average NHL goalie would save if they faced the same shots as CDS ..... Jarry is #16/36 ....... in HDSV% (High Danger Save %), CDS is #19/41 for the year and Jarry #21/41 ....... so even though he has had some very bad games, overall this season CDS has played a little better than an average NHL goalie would have played if they had faced the same shots CDS faced ..... and an average NHL goalie is not a bad goalie ...... of course health issues for CDS the last two playoffs have really hurt the Pens and your backup needs to be reliable and I'm certainly always looking to upgrade the goalie position if it is feasible without weakening the overall team (losing too many assets) ....... CDS may well have to go before next season and I'm certainly good with that if the upgrade outweighs the cost, some of the names I've heard are not an upgrade IMO.

- Pens are 5-2-3 in last 10 games and 3-0-3 in last 6 ...... going to be a battle to make the playoffs.
 
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What is interesting is Boston. Their core is Bergeron 37, Marchand 34, Krecji is 36.
They made some smart trades to get a Taylor Hall and Charlie Coyle. But they also held onto their #1 picks, picking guys like Pasternak, McAvoy and Debrusk.

And right now there window seems much more open than the Pens.

However..................the Pens core has 3 Cups and Boston has 1. While they look unbeatable right now, I still question their goaltending would hold up for 4 playoff rounds.

So to put the Pens predicament into focus, I will take the cups over the chance of cups longer. But that being said, I think around 2018-19 the Pens should have been looking more forward. Because all of their "younger" players like Guentzel, Rust, Jarry were drafted by Ray Shero. That was 3 GM's ago.
 
A few comments ......
- I didn't think they played very well in the first period where they were outshot 22-8 but played well after that and agree with you that overall they played mostly well.

- Also totally agree with you and have been telling friends this for a couple years now that they are going to need to consider a timer for each skater to get the shot off in the shootout ...... shooters are slowing it down to a crawl and getting so close to the goalie waiting for him to make the first move and then shooting bullets at the goalie from 5 feet away ....... making the save is becoming more luck than skill.

- Casey DeSmith has been bashed pretty hard by the board and rightfully so at times but I think we should give him some credit for a truly outstanding performance last night ..... 43 saves on 45 shots, the two goals he gave up were a one timer by Ovie on a pass across during a PP when Poehling left Ovie wide open and then a shot that was deflected by a Pens stick and changed direction so CDS could not adjust his glove fast enough to make the save (no bad/soft goals), he faced 18 High Danger/Grade A shots which is an extremely high number and saved all 18 which is phenomenal ..... this was truly a game where a goalie gave his team a chance to win ...... CDS has been inconsistent this season but if you look at his overall advanced stats, his delta SV% is +0.4 which is #18 out of 36 goalies with the highest playing time (and means his SV% is 0.4% higher than an average NHL goalies SV% would be if they faced the same shots CDS did) ..... for comparison Jarry is #12 out of 36 goalies in delta SV% ........ CDS is also #18/36 in GSAx (Goals Saved Above Expexted) with a + 3.58 which means he has saved 3.58 more goals than an average NHL goalie would save if they faced the same shots as CDS ..... Jarry is #16/36 ....... in HDSV% (High Danger Save %), CDS is #19/41 for the year and Jarry #21/41 ....... so even though he has had some very bad games, overall this season CDS has played a little better than an average NHL goalie would have played if they had faced the same shots CDS faced ..... and an average NHL goalie is not a bad goalie ...... of course health issues for CDS the last two playoffs have really hurt the Pens and your backup needs to be reliable and I'm certainly always looking to upgrade the goalie position if it is feasible without weakening the overall team (losing too many assets) ....... CDS may well have to go before next season and I'm certainly good with that if the upgrade outweighs the cost, some of the names I've heard are not an upgrade IMO.

- Pens are 5-2-3 in last 10 games and 3-0-3 in last 6 ...... going to be a battle to make the playoffs.
A few comments ......
- I didn't think they played very well in the first period where they were outshot 22-8 but played well after that and agree with you that overall they played mostly well.

- Also totally agree with you and have been telling friends this for a couple years now that they are going to need to consider a timer for each skater to get the shot off in the shootout ...... shooters are slowing it down to a crawl and getting so close to the goalie waiting for him to make the first move and then shooting bullets at the goalie from 5 feet away ....... making the save is becoming more luck than skill.

- Casey DeSmith has been bashed pretty hard by the board and rightfully so at times but I think we should give him some credit for a truly outstanding performance last night ..... 43 saves on 45 shots, the two goals he gave up were a one timer by Ovie on a pass across during a PP when Poehling left Ovie wide open and then a shot that was deflected by a Pens stick and changed direction so CDS could not adjust his glove fast enough to make the save (no bad/soft goals), he faced 18 High Danger/Grade A shots which is an extremely high number and saved all 18 which is phenomenal ..... this was truly a game where a goalie gave his team a chance to win ...... CDS has been inconsistent this season but if you look at his overall advanced stats, his delta SV% is +0.4 which is #18 out of 36 goalies with the highest playing time (and means his SV% is 0.4% higher than an average NHL goalies SV% would be if they faced the same shots CDS did) ..... for comparison Jarry is #12 out of 36 goalies in delta SV% ........ CDS is also #18/36 in GSAx (Goals Saved Above Expexted) with a + 3.58 which means he has saved 3.58 more goals than an average NHL goalie would save if they faced the same shots as CDS ..... Jarry is #16/36 ....... in HDSV% (High Danger Save %), CDS is #19/41 for the year and Jarry #21/41 ....... so even though he has had some very bad games, overall this season CDS has played a little better than an average NHL goalie would have played if they had faced the same shots CDS faced ..... and an average NHL goalie is not a bad goalie ...... of course health issues for CDS the last two playoffs have really hurt the Pens and your backup needs to be reliable and I'm certainly always looking to upgrade the goalie position if it is feasible without weakening the overall team (losing too many assets) ....... CDS may well have to go before next season and I'm certainly good with that if the upgrade outweighs the cost, some of the names I've heard are not an upgrade IMO.

- Pens are 5-2-3 in last 10 games and 3-0-3 in last 6 ...... going to be a battle to make the playoffs.
Recruits and you may be right on putting a timer on the shooter but it’s hard to make any case that the goalies are at a disadvantage. Isn’t the conversion rate on penalty and shootout attempts no more than about 33%?
 
Recruits and you may be right on putting a timer on the shooter but it’s hard to make any case that the goalies are at a disadvantage. Isn’t the conversion rate on penalty and shootout attempts no more than about 33%?
But these guys just stickhandling and take 10-15 seconds makes it even more gimmicky and less like an actual hockey play.
 
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totally agree with you and have been telling friends this for a couple years now that they are going to need to consider a timer for each skater to get the shot off in the shootout ...... shooters are slowing it down to a crawl and getting so close to the goalie waiting for him to make the first move and then shooting bullets at the goalie from 5 feet away ....... making the save is becoming more luck than skill.
I have a novel idea to make shootouts more interesting.
1 . No penalties in shootout.
2. The shooter has 2 seconds on the ice alone.
3. At 2 seconds, a defender comes on the ice from the penalty box.
4. There are no penalties in shootout.
Fans will love this.
 
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I have a novel idea to make shootouts more interesting.
1 . No penalties in shootout.
2. The shooter has 2 seconds on the ice alone.
3. At 2 seconds, a defender comes on the ice from the penalty box.
4. There are no penalties in shootout.
Fans will love this.
Honestly?? I can go with 10 minutes of 3 on 3 and if not, it ends in a tie and each gets one point.
 
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Honestly?? I can go with 10 minutes of 3 on 3 and if not, it ends in a tie and each gets one point.
Well not really. But I would love watching someone come flying out of the penalty box into a full on collision then having the goalie jump on with blocker punches. I would watch that on YouTube all day.
And I would love to add that to beer league. A good blocker punch is my second favorite goalie move. First is a stick to the popliteal fossa. No padding back there! That is like cutting down a tree. Timber!
 
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Recruits and you may be right on putting a timer on the shooter but it’s hard to make any case that the goalies are at a disadvantage. Isn’t the conversion rate on penalty and shootout attempts no more than about 33%?
- The average conversion rate the last 3 years in shootout shots is 31.5% and I think over the 6 years prior to that was 31.7% ..... the conversion rate this year so far is 36.2% ..... of course, the rate fluctuates year to year so it probably isn't statistically significantly different than previous years unless the increase conversion rate stays up over time and than it may indicate the goalies at a disadvantage but more and more players are using this strategy so it will be interesting to see if this is a real trend and whether goalies can adjust.....

- Extra points are awarded in OT/Shootout ..... it is 3v3 in OT which is different than 5v5 in regulation but all the rules are the same otherwise and OT is at least similar to regulation play in all other ways ...... like recruits says, in the shootout the shooters are slowing it down so much and going all over the ice that it is nothing like a breakaway in regulation where anyone who gets a breakaway at mid ice goes as fast as he can straight toward the goalie because if he doesn't, a back checker will catch him ...... what they are doing as a breakaway is nothing that happens in regulation and agree is becoming "gimmicky" ..... if you want to make the shootout more like regulation, then you either have a back checker from the other team chase the shooter which they won't do since it would be too dangerous or you simulate a back checker by having a shot clock ......

- I wouldn't mind seeing OT be extended to 7 minutes and if still tied have a 3-5 man shootout with a shot clock and if still tied after that, the game would be a tie with one point for each team.
 
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- The average conversion rate the last 3 years in shootout shots is 31.5% and I think over the 6 years prior to that was 31.7% ..... the conversion rate this year so far is 36.2% ..... of course, the rate fluctuates year to year so it probably isn't statistically significantly different than previous years unless the increase conversion rate stays up over time and than it may indicate the goalies at a disadvantage but more and more players are using this strategy so it will be interesting to see if this is a real trend and whether goalies can adjust.....

- Extra points are awarded in OT/Shootout ..... it is 3v3 in OT which is different than 5v5 in regulation but all the rules are the same otherwise and OT is at least similar to regulation play in all other ways ...... like recruits says, in the shootout the shooters are slowing it down so much and going all over the ice that it is nothing like a breakaway in regulation where anyone who gets a breakaway at mid ice goes as fast as he can straight toward the goalie because if he doesn't, a back checker will catch him ...... what they are doing as a breakaway is nothing that happens in regulation and agree is becoming "gimmicky" ..... if you want to make the shootout more like regulation, then you either have a back checker from the other team chase the shooter which they won't do since it would be too dangerous or you simulate a back checker by having a shot clock ......

- I wouldn't mind seeing OT be extended to 7 minutes and if still tied have a 3-5 man shootout with a shot clock and if still tied after that, the game would be a tie with one point for each team.
Again alot of this goes back to some games being worth 2 points (regulation) and other worth 3 points (OT).
 
A few comments ......
- I didn't think they played very well in the first period where they were outshot 22-8 but played well after that and agree with you that overall they played mostly well.

- Also totally agree with you and have been telling friends this for a couple years now that they are going to need to consider a timer for each skater to get the shot off in the shootout ...... shooters are slowing it down to a crawl and getting so close to the goalie waiting for him to make the first move and then shooting bullets at the goalie from 5 feet away ....... making the save is becoming more luck than skill.

- Casey DeSmith has been bashed pretty hard by the board and rightfully so at times but I think we should give him some credit for a truly outstanding performance last night ..... 43 saves on 45 shots, the two goals he gave up were a one timer by Ovie on a pass across during a PP when Poehling left Ovie wide open and then a shot that was deflected by a Pens stick and changed direction so CDS could not adjust his glove fast enough to make the save (no bad/soft goals), he faced 18 High Danger/Grade A shots which is an extremely high number and saved all 18 which is phenomenal ..... this was truly a game where a goalie gave his team a chance to win ...... CDS has been inconsistent this season but if you look at his overall advanced stats, his delta SV% is +0.4 which is #18 out of 36 goalies with the highest playing time (and means his SV% is 0.4% higher than an average NHL goalies SV% would be if they faced the same shots CDS did) ..... for comparison Jarry is #12 out of 36 goalies in delta SV% ........ CDS is also #18/36 in GSAx (Goals Saved Above Expexted) with a + 3.58 which means he has saved 3.58 more goals than an average NHL goalie would save if they faced the same shots as CDS ..... Jarry is #16/36 ....... in HDSV% (High Danger Save %), CDS is #19/41 for the year and Jarry #21/41 ....... so even though he has had some very bad games, overall this season CDS has played a little better than an average NHL goalie would have played if they had faced the same shots CDS faced ..... and an average NHL goalie is not a bad goalie ...... of course health issues for CDS the last two playoffs have really hurt the Pens and your backup needs to be reliable and I'm certainly always looking to upgrade the goalie position if it is feasible without weakening the overall team (losing too many assets) ....... CDS may well have to go before next season and I'm certainly good with that if the upgrade outweighs the cost, some of the names I've heard are not an upgrade IMO.

- Pens are 5-2-3 in last 10 games and 3-0-3 in last 6 ...... going to be a battle to make the playoffs.
Agree with you on Casey last night. I thought he basically stole us a point. Don't get me wrong, it was a decent effort from the guys, but DeSmith was the difference.
 
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When do people start realizing that this core cant be saved?

I would also argue that Mike Sullivan should be fired. This team, as old as it is, cant run and gun all night. Awful teams are outscoring them. They need to use the trap with a lead and they need to stop this freewheeling BS.

They need defensemen that play defense.

This current situation is laughable
 
I guess the Pens players have decided they just don’t feel like playing defense. They are so frustrating to watch.
Maybe we can bring back Michel Therrien.
These guys deserve it.
The defense has their problems but when your goalie gives up 5 goals on like 30 shots... make a freaking save once in a while. It's not agaisnt the rules of hockey to stop the shot on an odd man rush situation.
 
They are becoming a chore to watch these days. When they are on opposite a good college basketball game, I find myself watching more basketball, although I do check back. Some of it is probably due to the resurgence of Pitt Men's hoops but most of it is due to the Pens sucking.
 
The defense has their problems but when your goalie gives up 5 goals on like 30 shots... make a freaking save once in a while. It's not agaisnt the rules of hockey to stop the shot on an odd man rush situation.
DeSmith certainly didn’t play well either,
But they are just SO sloppy, and so not concerned about playing defense.
 
What a disappointing game/loss tonight ....... I can't believe how bad they were in coverage in the defensive zone ...... just seemed to be freelancing ....... they really hung Casey DeSmith out to dry ...... he faced 17 High Danger shots (a very high number) and most of the goals were in the low slot by uncovered players but he needs to make a save or two on those shots if the Pens are to win ...... on the shots DeSmith faced the expected goals against (xGA) was about 4 and he gave up 5 so he was below average and he certainly didn't play very well but he was not the number one reason the Pens lost ....

If the Pens are going to win games, they need to play like they did against the Devils in the 2-1 (OT) loss ...... tight checking, highly structured, good positionally, use some more trapping and get good goaltending ...... it doesn't look like they can do this consistently .....

Doesn't look good but we'll see what happens after the All-Star break .....
 
Was at the game last night and it is now painfully obvious this team is slow and not willing to do the things that need to be done to win. But man, have teams been spending a ton of time in the Pens end lately. I refuse to whine and complain after the run the Pens have had since the late 80's. I know, some bad stretches in that amount of time but overall it has been really good hockey with really good hockey players. It is time to tear it down and begin the rebuild. Signing Malkin and Letting was a mistake in my opinion, but then again, I wanted Malkin gone 5 years ago when I knew they could still get a nice return. B ut that time has passed.
 
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Was at the game last night and it is now painfully obvious this team is slow and not willing to do the things that need to be done to win. But man, have teams been spending a ton of time in the Pens end lately. I refuse to whine and complain after the run the Pens have had since the late 80's. I know, some bad stretches in that amount of time but overall it has been really good hockey with really good hockey players. It is time to tear it down and begin the rebuild. Signing Malkin and Letting was a mistake in my opinion, but then again, I wanted Malkin gone 5 years ago when I knew they could still get a nice return. B ut that time has passed.
Likewise, wanted to send letang and Malkin to greener pastures and not be saddled with old.players on expensive contracts with diminishing skills. But everyone told me I was wrong, so whatever.

Sullivan letting them play the hockey version of the Lakers' Showtime is a big mistake. But he can't coach a defensive system. He ran Ian Cole out of town for being too defensively responsible. He's not the guy to instill a defense-first system for old stars. He was perfect when the Pens were the fastest team in the league and they ran teams out of the building on speed and youthful exuberance.

Move who you can and start the teardown. The guys on NMC contracts will volunteer to be traded when it's not wide open anymore and they're expected to play defense. I guess it's not fun to play defense and win. Running and gunnin and losing is way more cool .
 
What a disappointing game/loss tonight ....... I can't believe how bad they were in coverage in the defensive zone ...... just seemed to be freelancing ....... they really hung Casey DeSmith out to dry ...... he faced 17 High Danger shots (a very high number) and most of the goals were in the low slot by uncovered players but he needs to make a save or two on those shots if the Pens are to win ...... on the shots DeSmith faced the expected goals against (xGA) was about 4 and he gave up 5 so he was below average and he certainly didn't play very well but he was not the number one reason the Pens lost ....

If the Pens are going to win games, they need to play like they did against the Devils in the 2-1 (OT) loss ...... tight checking, highly structured, good positionally, use some more trapping and get good goaltending ...... it doesn't look like they can do this consistently .....

Doesn't look good but we'll see what happens after the All-Star break .....
But that is not fun! This team obviously likes to have fun. He's a great coach, but either Sullivan is unwilling to change, or the Pens have tuned him out.
 
Likewise, wanted to send letang and Malkin to greener pastures and not be saddled with old.players on expensive contracts with diminishing skills. But everyone told me I was wrong, so whatever.

Sullivan letting them play the hockey version of the Lakers' Showtime is a big mistake. But he can't coach a defensive system. He ran Ian Cole out of town for being too defensively responsible. He's not the guy to instill a defense-first system for old stars. He was perfect when the Pens were the fastest team in the league and they ran teams out of the building on speed and youthful exuberance.

Move who you can and start the teardown. The guys on NMC contracts will volunteer to be traded when it's not wide open anymore and they're expected to play defense. I guess it's not fun to play defense and win. Running and gunnin and losing is way more cool .
You want to have some of these players waive their no trade clauses? Bring back Michel Therrien or Kevin Constantine.
 
You want to have some of these players waive their no trade clauses? Bring back Michel Therrien or Kevin Constantine.
Agree 100%. They’re not going to do anything now, but get through the rest of this season, and either not make the playoffs, or get killed in the 1st round.
After the season fire Sullivan, replace him with a disciplinarian defenseman minded coach.
It won’t take long to be able to start the rebuild.
 
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But that is not fun! This team obviously likes to have fun. He's a great coach, but either Sullivan is unwilling to change, or the Pens have tuned him out.
It is both. Sullivan has shown no ability to deviate from his style. Additionally, the Pens have definitely tuned him out. I don't blame the players at all. This team needed new leadership 3 or 4 years ago. They stuck with a guy who didn't adjust to the times. They were competitive, but growing older, and Sullivan kept coaching as if he had a bunch of 24 year olds that could outskate other teams. Please can him! I can barely stand to see his grumpy face when they show him behind the bench anymore. It really doesn't matter as it is time to kill the mess and start again. When they do, it won't be with Sully I hope.
 
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Pensburgh had an interesting article on Hextall's two-year tenure. I forgot he let some good role players go and signed/re-signed some bad contracts. We could use McCann, Rodrigues, and Tanev. Adding Ruuta, and re-signing Carter and Kappanen were all bad decisions that shifted the bottom six from good to bad and weakened our defensive pairings. Rakell was a great addition, but Petry, imho, is just good, not great. Marino is great for the Devils while Dumo has fallen off a cliff. (Petry) For his salary and what was expected. Many experts expected more from Petry.

A mixed bag to be sure, but, overall, a meh. I was higher on Hextall until I started to look more deeply at what he did to himself. The re-signings that have hampered this team like KK and JC are awful and he did those to himself. GMJR can't be blamed for a lot of these mistakes.
 
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