OT. The shift

[Cap pitt]

First of all I usually don't agree with OT threads, BUT, Clint hurdle needs to quit shifting his infield, it actually hurts the Pirates more then it helps. That is horrible baseball strategy for anyone, if they would play normal infield positions things would workout much better, so Clint, quit the shift

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

We have real bad luck with the shift. Every time we do it, lefty hits one away, right where the shortstop should be.

I freakin hate the shift.

 

[anon_4dfwm2pijbr0a]

On a completely separate note. I checked the score and saw they were winning 3-0 in the top of the first. I said to myself Brault will absolutely blow that lead, and he sure has proven to be correct.

 

[TFloss]

The shift worked well on Friday night when Tucker was playing over top of 2nd base and Wong hit into a DP.

 

[McKee Place]

I remember way back in 79 (grampa Simpson voice) when the Pirates had a 1 run lead in the bottom of the ninth and Tekulve was in the game, got a crucial 2nd out but a lefty hitter was coming up, yet there was a right handed batter behind him. So Tanner pulled Tekulve from pitching for Grant Jackson, but put him in left field (probably pulling John Milner or something) so he could put Tekulve back on mound if the righty came up. Of course the batter purposely went with the pitch and lifted a really high fly ball to left. It was almost cartoon like watching Tekulve with his long skinny legs warbling and his head dominated by his glasses with the transition lenses (seemed so cool in the 70s... actually no, they didn't, even then), wandering under the fly ball, as the runners on base flew around the paths... but lo and behold, he caught it to end the game! That's when I officially allowed myself to think "this team might actually win it all".

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

The shift worked well on Friday night when Tucker was playing over top of 2nd base and Wong hit into a DP.

yeah, was a HUGE DP too. I seem to forget about the ones that work and focus on complaining about the ones that don't work.

 

[Cap pitt]

yeah, was a HUGE DP too. I seem to forget about the ones that work and focus on complaining about the ones that don't work.

Right, it was a good play, I remember it. But it works once in a while but more often then, it doesn't

 

[mike 301]

I remember way back in 79 (grampa Simpson voice) when the Pirates had a 1 run lead in the bottom of the ninth and Tekulve was in the game, got a crucial 2nd out but a lefty hitter was coming up, yet there was a right handed batter behind him. So Tanner pulled Tekulve from pitching for Grant Jackson, but put him in left field (probably pulling John Milner or something) so he could put Tekulve back on mound if the righty came up. Of course the batter purposely went with the pitch and lifted a really high fly ball to left. It was almost cartoon like watching Tekulve with his long skinny legs warbling and his head dominated by his glasses with the transition lenses (seemed so cool in the 70s... actually no, they didn't, even then), wandering under the fly ball, as the runners on base flew around the paths... but lo and behold, he caught it to end the game! That's when I officially allowed myself to think "this team might actually win it all".

I recall that . But pitchers when not throwing, shagged fly balls all the time so it was no big deal .

 

[McKee Place]

I recall that . But pitchers when not throwing, shagged fly balls all the time so it was no big deal .

It looked like a pretty big deal for him

 

[HailtoPitt]

It. Doesn't. Matter.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

But it works once in a while but more often then, it doesn't

That is simply factually incorrect.

 

[DT_PITT]

First of all I usually don't agree with OT threads, BUT, Clint hurdle needs to quit shifting his infield, it actually hurts the Pirates more then it helps. That is horrible baseball strategy for anyone, if they would play normal infield positions things would workout much better, so Clint, quit the shift

I understand what you are saying except that every single piece of evidence and data that there is to be had shows that you are completely incorrect.

 

[Cap pitt]

Now, for all you baseball geniuses, can you tell me why hurdle pulled muskgrove? He would have started the 8th inning and with only a 75 pitch count, is there no chance of complete games

 

[Cap pitt]

That is simply factually incorrect.

It is correct.

 

[TFloss]

Now, for all you baseball geniuses, can you tell me why hurdle pulled muskgrove? He would have started the 8th inning and with only a 75 pitch count, is there no chance of complete games

I was livid last night as well especially when he cries about overworking the bullpen. It seems that he did it because he's going to start him on Saturday on short rest. This sets up Keller to start on Sunday. I think Sunday could still be an opener type situation with Stratton-Durupau-Brault-Kingham....but Sunday is Keller's day in the rotation.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It is correct.

No, it's your opinion that is simply not supported by the facts.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Moran laying a bunt down the third base line agsinst the shift was perfect. Bob walk said it perfectly, why don’t they do that every time.

 

[Cap pitt]

Moran laying a bunt down the third base line agsinst the shift was perfect. Bob walk said it perfectly, why don’t they do that every time.

I have to agree

 

[happjack]

Moran laying a bunt down the third base line agsinst the shift was perfect. Bob walk said it perfectly, why don’t they do that every time.

I didn't see the game but isn't the reason the don't bunt every time dependent on the game situation and who's at the plate?

 

[Panther Parrothead]

Folks who are against The Shift think that it's supposed to be 100% foolproof and will cherrypick examples of when it backfired. But really, it's all about percentages. In strategic situations, nothing is ever a 100% lock.

 

[upj87]

The shift worked well on Friday night when Tucker was playing over top of 2nd base and Wong hit into a DP.

they only got lucky there because he ended up hitting the ball the wong way...

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

the Same people who get mad about using tactics to increase your chance of success in a scenario-

Are typically the same type of people who don’t understand math and statistics .


It’s about probability of results .

 

[Mikefln]

the Same people who get mad about using tactics to increase your chance of success in a scenario-

Are typically the same type of people who don’t understand math and statistics .


It’s about probability of results .

Can't they understand why they do it and not like it because it takes away the excitement from the game? Like you said, it is statistically effective so that means less hits and less base runners.

I don't like the shift because it takes excitement away.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I didn't see the game but isn't the reason the don't bunt every time dependent on the game situation and who's at the plate?

for the most part sure but I'd like to see more hitters do it and I think a big part of why they don't is some sort of archaic, old school mindset vs common sense..

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Can't they understand why they do it and not like it because it takes away the excitement from the game? Like you said, it is statistically effective so that means less hits and less base runners.

I don't like the shift because it takes excitement away.

Teams would for the most part stop extreme shifting if more people did what Moran did last night. The Diamondbacks gave him a free single and he took it. If he had bunted the ball a little harder, hard enough to beat third baseman running over to the line, he might have had a free double.

Other than some very specific game situations, most players ought to do what Moran did every single time. When they start doing that teams will start keeping their third baseman where he "belongs".

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Can't they understand why they do it and not like it because it takes away the excitement from the game? Like you said, it is statistically effective so that means less hits and less base runners.

I don't like the shift because it takes excitement away.

I prefer the team I root for to do things to win-
That’s just me.

 

[Mikefln]

I prefer the team I root for to do things to win-
That’s just me.

I agree when talking about being fan of a team. I was talking more about being a fan of the game.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

I agree when talking about being fan of a team. I was talking more about being a fan of the game.

Not a baseball guy-
But if the opponent is unable to hit where the defense isn’t-
I don’t tend to blame the defense for making it boring.

 

[happjack]

for the most part sure but I'd like to see more hitters do it and I think a big part of why they don't is some sort of archaic, old school mindset vs common sense..

Having someone like Bell bunt against the shift is something the pitching team would be ok with. If he gets on first that means they didn’t give up a home run or extra base hit and it’s likely he’ll be stranded on the bases when the third out is registered.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Having someone like Bell bunt against the shift is something the pitching team would be ok with. If he gets on first that means they didn’t give up a home run or extra base hit and it’s likely he’ll be stranded on the bases when the third out is registered.

It depends. For instance if it's the 9th inning of a two run game then you want him taking the "free hit" to bring the tying run to the plate. But if it's a one run game then no, you don't want him bunting.

At other, random times during games he should do it in an attempt to force the defense to play him "honestly". And if they won't, free singles are a good consolation.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

Personally, I like to see a team use a Shift because I want to see the batter accept the challenge and try to beat it.

A pitcher should want to stop a batter from getting a “lowly single” every bit as much as he wants to prevent the batter from getting a walk. Eventually, those shift-beating singles will win ballgames.

 

[Cap pitt]

Folks who are against The Shift think that it's supposed to be 100% foolproof and will cherrypick examples of when it backfired. But really, it's all about percentages. In strategic situations, nothing is ever a 100% lock.

I and many others would rather take my chances without the shift

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I and many others would rather take my chances without the shift

Lot's of people make wrong choices all the time. We shouldn't expect baseball fans be any different, I suppose.