OT True detective season 2

[ratking17]

I wanted to reserve judgment until the end and didn't want to use season 1 in my opinion. If season 1 didn't exist, I probably would not watch a season 3. There were some good moments, but way too many bad ones.

The pillow talk scene was soooooooooo bad. I hated the discussion even hinting that an abducted child would have any positive emotions attached.

The throwing of the rings? Come on....but I guess it was a step up from rat nibblings.

I hate dialogue used to explain plot. I further take it as insulting that you had bad guy confess to evil plan right before dying and woops, tape recorder gets smashed.

The casper death I was supposed to care about but didn't.

The tracker on the car? Yeah plan was to just run out of gas?

Pregnant?

Ray dies. There is a disturbance in the force.

I could continue. That said, I will probably watch a 3rd season to see if the writer can get it right, but hugely disappointed.

Thoughts?

 

[DruidTM]

What a great show....those who said the writers had no plan etc were waaayyy off base....they wrapped it up cleanly...if sadly...

The pacing of the finale was great...you spend the first half thinking "are these guys going to stomp out the corruption? Will they expose it all?".... you get left with nope...its too big...too pervasive...its a monster....who is going to survive in the end?

People who were comparing to season one each and every week did themselves and the show a great diservice....two different (yet oddly similar in theme) stories....no this year was not occult oriented...nor possible supernatural stuff....this was straight up crime and corruption...and all the character development made you pull for each one of the main players in the end...the stuff with Ray was heartbreaking....and Franks demise was pretty sad as well...there were no winners...just as season one ended...only minor victories....and at that just splinters on an elephant...

Great show!....looking forward to whats next

 

[DruidTM]

Who said you were supposed to care about Casper?.... I never got that impression at all......

 

[wbrpanther]

What a great show....those who said the writers had no plan etc were waaayyy off base....they wrapped it up cleanly...if sadly...

The pacing of the finale was great...you spend the first half thinking "are these guys going to stomp out the corruption? Will they expose it all?".... you get left with nope...its too big...too pervasive...its a monster....who is going to survive in the end?

People who were comparing to season one each and every week did themselves and the show a great diservice....two different (yet oddly similar in theme) stories....no this year was not occult oriented...nor possible supernatural stuff....this was straight up crime and corruption...and all the character development made you pull for each one of the main players in the end...the stuff with Ray was heartbreaking....and Franks demise was pretty sad as well...there were no winners...just as season one ended...only minor victories....and at that just splinters on an elephant...

Great show!....looking forward to whats next

To each his own I guess. I expected something more than the same old cheesy story lines that you see every week on network TV. I stuck it out to the end but am very unimpressed. Season 1 was great. Season 2 not so much.Looking forward to season 3.

 

[load1079]

To each his own I guess. I expected something more than the same old cheesy story lines that you see every week on network TV. I stuck it out to the end but am very unimpressed. Season 1 was great. Season 2 not so much.Looking forward to season 3.

Count me among those who were frustrated by this season. There was almost too much going on from a plot standpoint, yet the episodes themselves were often painfully slow. I agree that if it wasn't for season 1, no way would I be giving a season 3 a chance.

If you want the entire plot summed up for you in a fairly straightforward manner, the two links below are pretty good in my opinion:

Through episode 7:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...ide_to_the_plot_of_this_confusing_season.html
Finale:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/08/10/true_detective_season_2_finale_plot_explained.html

 

[Jeffburgh]

I came into it trying to not use season one's epic bar as the standard.

I re watched the first several shows a couple times trying to 1) figure WTF was the story was about 2) trying to figure out just HTF Stan was 3) TRYING to like it.

There is comment at a website today that totally nailed how I felt about it - the story was far to complex while at the same time what occurred with the characters was painfully predictable.

Paul calls Ray just as he is about to go into this mysterious meeting to say "gee, I think I am walking into a set up." They might as well of had him say, "I am going to get into a seemingly inescapable situation and once again pull some ninja stuff to seemingly get out but capped just when I thought I am going to be clear."

You knew one or both were dead when Ray and Ani had that happy, happy, joy, joy phone call, literally the only moment in the show for either that wasn't morbid in tone.

They told you 100 ways Ray was doing to die, and, surprise, surprise, at the hands of, the mean little A mexicano guy he got into a stare down with and shot an insult at, who literally did not have a line the entire show - which I called at that moment.

Both his and Ray's death were bizarrely long and drug out.

You knew Ray was done when he started looking at the expressway signs - knew he was going to see his son and whoever the heck the bad guys were, were going to be there waiting for him.

Everyone had some kind of fatherless kid at the end for the most part ...

The great Caspare killing wasn't about Rays money, but the most bizarre pair of siblings we have seen in a TV show since the Cy Tolliver took out Miles and Flora in Deadwood, WTH he wore some bird hat is beyond anyone ...

Season one had epic character potrayals, but the story was believable and came together very neatly.

This story was all over the place, has all kinds of frayed edges and is beyond belief, half dozen public officials were killed, Ray went terminator on the casion and club ...

Just a hot mess overall ...

 

[DruidTM]

Well season 1 has been somewhat mythologized ... Don't get me wrong... It was great... But some of the predictable complaints being applied to season 2 also work for season 1... Take the reason for Marty and rusts fallout... Maggie? Really? ... I honestly thought they led you believe that was coming but only as a false lead... Instead one of the biggest mysteries was a predictable plot line...

 

[bwh05]

Season 2 was terrible and it's been reviewed that way by most critics.

 

[DruidTM]

Yeah... I typically read critics whether it's film tv or music and decide for myself...

Too many times I don't agree but sometimes I do...

Critics jumped on TD2 from the get go... Kinda makes me view everything else with skepticism...

 

[bwh05]

There were just too many concurrent plot lines going on at the same time. Plus the acting wasn't close to as good as the first season.

 

[noelr]

Just finished watching and would have quit at episode 3 if i didnt love season one so much. Also i fastforwared the death scenes i was so ready for it to be over.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Yeah... I typically read critics whether it's film tv or music and decide for myself...

Too many times I don't agree but sometimes I do...

Critics jumped on TD2 from the get go... Kinda makes me view everything else with skepticism...

Its all personal preference.

Heck, I thought True Blood was fun ...

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

No worries... Fargo's Season 2 is fast approaching. Can't wait to see what Noah Hawley has in store this go 'round. And, honestly, aside from the production values being better, Fargo Season 1 >> True Detective Season 1.

 

[Jpripper88]

I came into it trying to not use season one's epic bar as the standard.

I re watched the first several shows a couple times trying to 1) figure WTF was the story was about 2) trying to figure out just HTF Stan was 3) TRYING to like it.

There is comment at a website today that totally nailed how I felt about it - the story was far to complex while at the same time what occurred with the characters was painfully predictable.

Paul calls Ray just as he is about to go into this mysterious meeting to say "gee, I think I am walking into a set up." They might as well of had him say, "I am going to get into a seemingly inescapable situation and once again pull some ninja stuff to seemingly get out but capped just when I thought I am going to be clear."

You knew one or both were dead when Ray and Ani had that happy, happy, joy, joy phone call, literally the only moment in the show for either that wasn't morbid in tone.

They told you 100 ways Ray was doing to die, and, surprise, surprise, at the hands of, the mean little A mexicano guy he got into a stare down with and shot an insult at, who literally did not have a line the entire show - which I called at that moment.

Both his and Ray's death were bizarrely long and drug out.

You knew Ray was done when he started looking at the expressway signs - knew he was going to see his son and whoever the heck the bad guys were, were going to be there waiting for him.

Everyone had some kind of fatherless kid at the end for the most part ...

The great Caspare killing wasn't about Rays money, but the most bizarre pair of siblings we have seen in a TV show since the Cy Tolliver took out Miles and Flora in Deadwood, WTH he wore some bird hat is beyond anyone ...

Season one had epic character potrayals, but the story was believable and came together very neatly.

This story was all over the place, has all kinds of frayed edges and is beyond belief, half dozen public officials were killed, Ray went terminator on the casion and club ...

Just a hot mess overall ...

Yep. Not to mention the fact the girl twin, who is extremely average looking, goes into prostitution, gets into high end model sex ring parties, talks to the one prostitute who gets the diamond dirt, makes the connection that they must be ones stolen from their parents (and is right), reunites with her brother, and then locks up a normal 9-5 for the guy.

Why was Woodrow's Mom continually pulled back into the story?

 

[DruidTM]

Ok...since we are discussing improbabilities....season one had a whopper to beat em all....

Rust surviving being "run through" like that????....No. Way.

Like the Iron Maiden tune...The Trooper...

"You'll take my life but I'll take yours too
You'll fire your musket but I'll run you through"

Just no way he survives that final encounter.....

By the way Game of Thrones has become an improbable mess of a trainwreck....unrecognisable from the books.....change for the sake of chasnge that never improves on the source material.....

 

[ratking17]

Druid, unfortunately, GOT has run out of source material and you wouldn't dare sacrifice the golden goose if you are HBO. So you do the best you can do. Unfortunately, what you get is the Sand Snakes and their completely dumb plot line all to poison a lannister. I don't think GOT is boring though, and unfortunately, in my opinion, True Detective was just that this past season....boring

 

[DruidTM]

Ratking....here's my problem with that argument though...

Season one= book one...almost identical
Season two= some changes but basically book two
Season three= 1/2 of book three...some changes swapping timelines etc..
Season four= 1/2 book three...some changes swapping timelines delte characters..etc...
Season five=by now...a complete mess...not following script...timeline changes...characters changed or written out entirely...not to mention at best, even if on script you should only be at the end of BOOK four on HBO....since book 3 literally got split over two seasons...

But no...now because they went into hyperdrive somehow even BOOK five is finished?!?!....no way should that be where we are at...but..well ...that's where we are....

Its the HBO screenwriters who botched this by deleting..changing...rewriting and hatcheting so much of this original work....its senseless...

Season one was the best...for a reason....the red wedding got turned into another senseless "drive by"...because they cut a signifigant follow up (which was not what Martin wanted it turns out)...its become senselessly predictable...start to like a character? Don't worry...we gonna kill em whether that happens in the books or not...wonder about storylines never followed through om? Don't worry..if we the writers forgot about it..you should too....

 

[ratking17]

I agree completely on your speed argument. Martin takes 5 years minimum to write a book. During season 1 I thought they went way too fast and could have included so much more and just as interesting material. I don't mind the time line issue as book 4 and 5 are mostly on the same time, just different characters.

I still enjoy GOT immensely though. The completely made up for tv wildling, jon snow, white walker attack this past season (in my opinion) was some of the best 15 minutes of tv since the "tracking shot in season 1 of true detective. )

Just my opinion and with anything pop culture, I respect anyone for their differences of opinion. (Until you tell me you listen to nickleback. Then you are dead to me)

 

[DruidTM]

Oh yeah..obviously I'm still watching...but when I read interviews of these guys say they ran out of material its so ridiculously untrue....like I said even by their own rules originally they should be around the begining of book five....

I was trying to read ahead all the time till the hatcheting went from subtle to bad to holy shit its nowhere close to the same chronology or theme at all...then I gave up....I'm reading book 4 now but know enough to realize these writers got very full of themselves after initial success and lost their way...

Sand snakes...perfect example...the "bad p*ssy" line had to be one of the single worst lines of dialogue ever.....from guys that went to Harvard or Yale or somewhere???..Holy Moley folks...that's bad.

You will never see me defend Nickleback....

 

[ratking17]

Book 4 is the worst in my opinion. 5 is slightly better. My order is 3, 1, 5, 2, 4.

 

[DruidTM]

Ratking....see link

 

[ratking17]

Haha

 

[Jpripper88]

Ok...since we are discussing improbabilities....season one had a whopper to beat em all....

Rust surviving being "run through" like that????....No. Way.

Like the Iron Maiden tune...The Trooper...

"You'll take my life but I'll take yours too
You'll fire your musket but I'll run you through"

Just no way he survives that final encounter.....

By the way Game of Thrones has become an improbable mess of a trainwreck....unrecognisable from the books.....change for the sake of chasnge that never improves on the source material.....

I agree it is unlikely, but it is possible and, much, more importantly, it really doesn't change the plot if he dies in there.

This season, the entire plot was based on the most ridiculous tie in I can imagine. I thought the show and story were above average (not great), but once we heard how it all tied together, it made it one of the most unrealistic dramas ever. Just awful.

 

[Ski11585]

Druid, unfortunately, GOT has run out of source material and you wouldn't dare sacrifice the golden goose if you are HBO. So you do the best you can do. Unfortunately, what you get is the Sand Snakes and their completely dumb plot line all to poison a lannister. I don't think GOT is boring though, and unfortunately, in my opinion, True Detective was just that this past season....boring

There is TONS of book material that the show has discarded in favor of adding in their own, terrible adaptive stuff. Not only is the show becoming increasingly bad as an adaptation, but the SHOW's own internal logic and consistency is falling apart. The show could be so amazing and it just keeps falling short.

 

[pitt-girl]

Since we were traveling, I only got to watch the finale last night. I wanted to like it sooooooo much, but every reason why I hated that episode is also why I hated this season. Please, please abandon the woman and children as victims theme! They manage to actually write one that seems tough as sh*t with her attitude and knife skills.......oh no, sorry, she's a victim too. So much symbolism that just got on my nerves - not the least of which was that horrible singer in the empty bar in every episode that I wanted to grab and shake. I honestly hated this season and I hope HBO sits down and seriously thinks twice about having Nik Pizzolatto at the helm again. Time to move onto someone else. Very disappointing.

 

[Jeffburgh]

It was painfully bad ... I dvrd it and just deleted every episode because I knew I'd never watch it again. I've watched the first season three times ...

 

[noelr]

It was worse than listening to trump and having to read the lair locker room. I think he deserves one more season although he got infatuated with his dialogue from season one.

 

[pitt-girl]

It was worse than listening to trump and having to read the lair locker room. I think he deserves one more season although he got infatuated with his dialogue from season one.

Normally I'd agree about another season, but it's pretty clear to me he has a major hang up with portraying women and children as victims and to me it dragged down both seasons. What was great about Season 1 was the chemistry of the lead actors and the geographical setting. Without those, I think that season would not have been nearly as successful.

 

[noelr]

Normally I'd agree about another season, but it's pretty clear to me he has a major hang up with portraying women and children as victims and to me it dragged down both seasons. What was great about Season 1 was the chemistry of the lead actors and the geographical setting. Without those, I think that season would not have been nearly as successful.

That and every lead has to have a substance abuse or sexual hangup...and Vince Vaughn was horribly miscast. Colin Farrell saved the show. He was great

 

[pitt-girl]

That and every lead has to have a substance abuse or sexual hangup...and Vince Vaughn was horribly miscast. Colin Farrell saved the show. He was great

You are so right on the substance and sexual hangups. I thought I would hate Farrell and I did initially, but by the end he was the soul of the show. And yes, Vaughn appeared to be miscast from the get go and turned out he was, but I blame some of that on the source material too.

I was thinking last night about my favorite crime shows/movies and what made them so good. An excellent example is LA Confidential. It is possible to blend wounded characters together without making them all stereotypes. But ultimately it comes down to the story and if it ain't good, nothing can help it especially globbing on layers of unnecessary details. Even the most complex tales can be very clear when written well.

 

[Harve74]

You are so right on the substance and sexual hangups. I thought I would hate Farrell and I did initially, but by the end he was the soul of the show. And yes, Vaughn appeared to be miscast from the get go and turned out he was, but I blame some of that on the source material too.

I was thinking last night about my favorite crime shows/movies and what made them so good. An excellent example is LA Confidential. It is possible to blend wounded characters together without making them all stereotypes. But ultimately it comes down to the story and if it ain't good, nothing can help it especially globbing on layers of unnecessary details. Even the most complex tales can be very clear when written well.

Season 1 was totally engrossing and fasciating. It became can't-miss television, but really, it was even more impossible and far-fetched as Season 2. Really, a televangelist and his old money family conspiring with local officials for a generation to abduct, molest and kill perhaps dozens of children? And, videotaping it? And almost nobody ever noticng all of this except the two heros?

The final straw of the depraved handyman and his mother-wife with their phantasmagorical labrinth in the swamps complete with dessicated corpse of Daddy displayed in the shed was beyond any semblence of reality. Bodies don't dry and mumify in the Louisiana heat and humidity.

It's clear the head writers have an underlying hatred of the powers that be and the corruption in high places. Yes, placing the guilt on what were peripheral charactors until the final episodes is possibly the closest thing to real life in the two shows. But, it is a disappointing trick, unworthy of the scale of the production effort. Especially when used in BOTH seasons. If the same basic plot is extended to Season 3, perhaps he would be better served by actually bringing down a few of those higher-ups with ultimate evil on their hands. The mighty do fall sometimes.

I differ a bit on the casting of Vince Vaughn. It WAS an unexpected choice but I thought he did an excellent job with Frank. Colin Farrell certainly wasn't Matthew McConaughey but he was OK. Nic Pizzolatto has said his original ending for Season 1 was for neither Rust or Marty to come out of the swamps in the final episode. Clearly, he transferred that dismal end to his main charactors in Season 2.

Most endeavors find it difficult to sustain success af a high level. At this point, GOT has become almost a caricature of itself, but still draws huge audiences. True Detective is not an ongoing serial but seems unlikely to become the same sort of cultural phenomenon.

 

[Jpripper88]

Season 1 was totally engrossing and fasciating. It became can't-miss television, but really, it was even more impossible and far-fetched as Season 2. Really, a televangelist and his old money family conspiring with local officials for a generation to abduct, molest and kill perhaps dozens of children? And, videotaping it? And almost nobody ever noticng all of this except the two heros?

The final straw of the depraved handyman and his mother-wife with their phantasmagorical labrinth in the swamps complete with dessicated corpse of Daddy displayed in the shed was beyond any semblence of reality. Bodies don't dry and mumify in the Louisiana heat and humidity.

It's clear the head writers have an underlying hatred of the powers that be and the corruption in high places. Yes, placing the guilt on what were peripheral charactors until the final episodes is possibly the closest thing to real life in the two shows. But, it is a disappointing trick, unworthy of the scale of the production effort. Especially when used in BOTH seasons. If the same basic plot is extended to Season 3, perhaps he would be better served by actually bringing down a few of those higher-ups with ultimate evil on their hands. The mighty do fall sometimes.

I differ a bit on the casting of Vince Vaughn. It WAS an unexpected choice but I thought he did an excellent job with Frank. Colin Farrell certainly wasn't Matthew McConaughey but he was OK. Nic Pizzolatto has said his original ending for Season 1 was for neither Rust or Marty to come out of the swamps in the final episode. Clearly, he transferred that dismal end to his main charactors in Season 2.

Most endeavors find it difficult to sustain success af a high level. At this point, GOT has become almost a caricature of itself, but still draws huge audiences. True Detective is not an ongoing serial but seems unlikely to become the same sort of cultural phenomenon.

Disagree completely. A rich and powerful family connected through the highest state governments would have almost unadulterated power in a desperately poor and uneducated area. Especially in times before the internet and constant national news. Plus, they were preying on prostitutes and unwanted kids from broken homes

Season 2 lynch pinned on a police detective, chief, and city manager (or some lower level at that time) conspiring to rob a jewelery store of precious jewels, which they hold onto for 20 years, and killing the husband and wife owners, while their children watched quietly. But, the twists are: 1. The city manager had a long time affair with the woman and fathered one daughter (who watched the killing) and possibly another on the way; 2. The kids are orphaned and both live awful lives with the girl turning to prostitution back where she was originally from; 3. The (extremely average looking) girl somehow ends up as a high end prostitute working the same parties the same robbers frequent, most notably the city manager, who she sleeps with; 4. The girl befriends a random prostitute, who managed to sneak a phone and take pictures of the stolen jewels the city manager still has (20 years later) and entrusts this other newly friended prostitute with a secret that she knows could get her killed; 5. The girl recognizes the jewels; 6. The two kids reunite; 7. The girl dies her hair and creates a fake resume and the city manager is soooo unaware of who she is or that she is familiar that he hires her as his assistant; 8. The brother becomes a crazed assassin.

Oh, yeah, and a drunken, washout cop becomes a super sleuth and marksman and puts the two kids together from a couple chance meetings and a picture.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

i'll just say..that Season 1 wasn't supposed to be realistic by the nature of the story being told. The focus on two main characters, both flawed, made it compelling and the supernatural story line kept is suspenseful since it was full of allegory and mysticism.

Season 2 spread too thin the focus- which left everybody flat..so the backstories were cliches and didn't enrich either character. Plus, it was a realistic (for the most part), except for the whole Eyes Wide Shut scene....which is why having flat and boring characters made the story arch disappointing.
I never gave a crap about the characters in season 2, because you knew who they were from Episode 1 and there were no surprises. The only interesting story was if the kid was Colin Farrell's or the rapist's.

Season 2 stunk for the most part, though the last 2 episodes were the best of the season because something actually was happening.

I actually think Vince Vaughn was good in the role, it's just the story wasn't as interesting.