OT: Why Doesn't Pitt Buy PAA?

[SVPanther]

been reading horror stories on financial condition of PAA. Broke. I see some PAA directors believe they can become solvent through a long term lease to a proposed Marriott on PAA property behind the main building, but that seems years away before that project starts cash flowing.
Pitt would seem to be a natural buyer. What's the hold up?

 

[Panthergrowl13]

I was thinking the same thing.

Seems like a win win for both parties.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[Swervin27]

why doesn't hyatt buy it and make a bigger hotel?

 

[9nationalchampionships]

What makes you think PITT has not been talking to PAA and/or bankruptcy court about the building. Arguably the corner of Fifth and Bigelow is ground central for PITT.

I feel good this will be a PITT building and may house upper mgt and certain other offices.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Would make a nice front door for...

 

[Swervin27]

Would make a nice front door for...

not used enough. need more hotels and hospitals. I won't be happy til Oakland is officially the "chain hotel and hospital" capital of the world. do what china does, when you run out of room, build on top of existing buildings. we need hotels built on the roofs of hospitals, or hospitals built on the roofs of hotels, either way works for me..

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Haha...think Soldier Field

Would make a nice front door for...

 

[Big Marty1]

Pitt has talked to PAA alot about buying the property as have many suitors. It is a valuable property.

 

[bwh05]

In the Nordenberg admin our policy was to not go above market value to acquire property. I guess it remains to be seen what chancellor Gallagher thinks on that subject.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Is Jim 'another Pitt land grab' Ferlo still around?

 

[HailtoPitt]

In the Nordenberg admin our policy was to not go above market value to acquire property. I guess it remains to be seen what chancellor Gallagher thinks an that subject.

As long as Nordy could have the PAA reserved for him whenever he wanted it, I'm sure he didn't care who owned it.

 

[CrazyPaco]

been reading horror stories on financial condition of PAA. Broke. I see some PAA directors believe they can become solvent through a long term lease to a proposed Marriott on PAA property behind the main building, but that seems years away before that project starts cash flowing.
Pitt would seem to be a natural buyer. What's the hold up?

The PAA doesn't want to sell. It's the whole reason they leased their parking lot to the hotel developer...so they could hang on. They don't have a club without the facility.

The hotel is being constructed now. It isn't years away.

If they ever had to sell, Pitt would have to go after it.

 

[SVPanther]

The PAA doesn't want to sell. It's the whole reason they leased their parking lot to the hotel developer...so they could hang on. They don't have a club without the facility.

The hotel is being constructed now. It isn't years away.

If they ever had to sell, Pitt would have to go after it.

Tks for the info.
I read that the PAA has something like $2.5MM in assets and $6.5MM in liabilities. The lender has already commenced the foreclosure process, which raises two questions:
1. Will the hotel come on stream in time to keep creditors at bay; and,
2. Aren't these old guard clubs just dinosaurs? The fundamental problem with the PAA was declining membership. If so, not sure how the hotel returns the PAA to viability.

 

[dv8765]

The PAA doesn't want to sell. It's the whole reason they leased their parking lot to the hotel developer...so they could hang on. They don't have a club without the facility.

The hotel is being constructed now. It isn't years away.

If they ever had to sell, Pitt would have to go after it.

This might be a stupid question, but if the PAA leased their parking lot to that hotel, and Pitt eventually buys the PAA, would Pitt technically own the land that the hotel is on?

 

[SVPanther]

This might be a stupid question, but if the PAA leased their parking lot to that hotel, and Pitt eventually buys the PAA, would Pitt technically own the land that the hotel is on?

Yes. PAA is the owner of the land leased to hotel. If Pitt bought PAA, Pitt would become landlord to hotel.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Tks for the info.
I read that the PAA has something like $2.5MM in assets and $6.5MM in liabilities. The lender has already commenced the foreclosure process, which raises two questions:
1. Will the hotel come on stream in time to keep creditors at bay; and,
2. Aren't these old guard clubs just dinosaurs? The fundamental problem with the PAA was declining membership. If so, not sure how the hotel returns the PAA to viability.

1. It likely is a race to the finish. I think the hotel is likely going to come online just in the nick of time.
2. Yes. Oakland was once the central location for Pittsburgh's swankiest clubs and Pitt has gobbled up several architectural gems once the clubs disbanded or moved:

former Central Turnverein = Gardner Steel Conference Center

former YWHA = Bellefield Hall

former Masonic Temple = Alumni Hall

former University Club = University Club building

former Concordia Club = O'Hara Student Center

It is also one of the reason Pitt may have more chandeliers than any university in America.

In Central Oakland, only the PAA and 20th Century Club remain functional clubs. Both are adjacent to Pitt's core campus. Both would be awesome additions, as would be the Pittsburgh school board building. All three are must gets if ever available. I also still think Pitt made a mistake not going after Schenley High, but at least that was not right in the core of campus.

PAA is a must get if it is available. No excuse not to get it if Pitt can, even it goes above market price.

 

[paulbl99]

1. It likely is a race to the finish. I think the hotel is likely going to come online just in the nick of time.
2. Yes. Oakland was once the central location for Pittsburgh's swankiest clubs and Pitt has gobbled up several architectural gems once the clubs disbanded or moved:

former Central Turnverein = Gardner Steel Conference Center

former YWHA = Bellefield Hall

former Masonic Temple = Alumni Hall

former University Club = University Club building

former Concordia Club = O'Hara Student Center

It is also one of the reason Pitt may have more chandeliers than any university in America.

In Central Oakland, only the PAA and 20th Century Club remain functional clubs. Both are adjacent to Pitt's core campus. Both would be awesome additions, as would be the Pittsburgh school board building. All three are must gets if ever available. I also still think Pitt made a mistake not going after Schenley High, but at least that was not right in the core of campus.

PAA is a must get if it is available. No excuse not to get it if Pitt can, even it goes above market price.

Great !!

 

[SVPanther]

If Pitt can get this property, we tear up Bigelow the next day!

 

[Panthergrowl13]

1. It likely is a race to the finish. I think the hotel is likely going to come online just in the nick of time.
2. Yes. Oakland was once the central location for Pittsburgh's swankiest clubs and Pitt has gobbled up several architectural gems once the clubs disbanded or moved:

former Central Turnverein = Gardner Steel Conference Center

former YWHA = Bellefield Hall

former Masonic Temple = Alumni Hall

former University Club = University Club building

former Concordia Club = O'Hara Student Center

It is also one of the reason Pitt may have more chandeliers than any university in America.

In Central Oakland, only the PAA and 20th Century Club remain functional clubs. Both are adjacent to Pitt's core campus. Both would be awesome additions, as would be the Pittsburgh school board building. All three are must gets if ever available. I also still think Pitt made a mistake not going after Schenley High, but at least that was not right in the core of campus.

PAA is a must get if it is available. No excuse not to get it if Pitt can, even it goes above market price.

Paco

The PAA is shut down.

No water, no electricity, no pool (health dept issues), no bar (suspension of liquor license) , no restaurant (health dept issues) etc.etc.etc.

Why would anyone want to continue to have a membership in this club.

Anyone can join the Racket Club, LA Fitness Center etc.

Times have changed.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[CrazyPaco]

Paco

The PAA is shut down.

No water, no electricity, no pool (health dept issues), no bar (suspension of liquor license) , no restaurant (health dept issues) etc.etc.etc.

Why would anyone want to continue to have a membership in this club.

Anyone can join the Racket Club, LA Fitness Center etc.

Times have changed.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Wow, I hadn't heard that utilities were turned off.

And I just read the article about student tenants having to leave during finals week. Maybe it is too late.

Pitt has to get this building if it goes on the block. There isn't another property smack in the core of campus that will ever become available. You can't get any closer and not actually be on the Cathedral lawn. Plus, it is on the National Registry of Historic Places. You are talking about a centerpiece type of building.

If left to fall into the hands of someone else it would be a major, MAJOR fail.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

If Pitt bought the PAA out of foreclosure and bought that UPMC Office Building and hotel on Tennyson, they'd own 3 full blocks.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

It seems like a slam dunk for Pitt to buy, but also one of those things the city and the Oakland neighborhood slumlord ... i mean resident ... association will fight Pitt on desperately, you know, because Pitt is evil (aka doesn't "pay its fair share").

So although nobody is getting ANY taxes (or utility payments, or services they have paid for) now, or for a very long time from the jackarses who currently have the place, my prediction is for the city to continue to back em unconditionally as long as possible to keep out of Pitt's hands.

This is yet another situation where Pitt having great sports (aka, massive popularity) would make things easy. The Steelers or Penguins would have no such political trouble obtaining this building.

 

[CrazyPaco]

The county has assessed the PAA building and properties at ~ $5 million. It would certainly go for more. The Syria Mosque site went for $10m. That also doesn't include equipment or the value of the lease to the hotel developer. It would probably take another $20 million in restoration and renovation and repurposement. This would alter the facility master plan being finalized.

The city is a little more amendable to working with Pitt now than under the last mayor. The hotel going up would still generate income from taxes (and income for Pitt). The resident association probably wouldn't be an obstacle...they're not really impacted at that site. However, some on city council would absolutely raise a fuss, but that would definitely be a battle worth fighting. That is, if it even becomes available.

 

[chethejet]

No question Pitt would benefit from including this property in the grand scheme of things. But Pitt has to have a longer term view of asset management meaning not reading the tea leaves as to what facility is tied to the cash flow. For now Heinz Field is what is cheap and quite frankly a good deal for Pitt football. But at some point, Pitt will need to either have a on campus stadium or be subject to the whims of the Steelers as to a new facility.

 

[CrazyPaco]

No question Pitt would benefit from including this property in the grand scheme of things. But Pitt has to have a longer term view of asset management meaning not reading the tea leaves as to what facility is tied to the cash flow. For now Heinz Field is what is cheap and quite frankly a good deal for Pitt football. But at some point, Pitt will need to either have a on campus stadium or be subject to the whims of the Steelers as to a new facility.

Pitt will never have an on-campus stadium in central Oakland.

 

[CrazyPaco]

In the Nordenberg admin our policy was to not go above market value to acquire property. I guess it remains to be seen what chancellor Gallagher thinks on that subject.

Tax assessment isn't market value, but Pitt paid $7.15 million this February for the Chipotle building at the corner of Forbes and Atwood that was assessed by the county at $2.8m.

The Nordenberg administration's philosophy was also not to acquire properties that couldn't be repurposed for uses that would provide funding for the cost of operating and upkeep of the property.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Since the PAA is listed as an Historical Building, a lot of potential bidders won't have an interest because it cannot be torn down (nor should it) to put in a medical office building or whatever.

As I stated before why would anyone want to maintain membership in a club with so many problems.

If someone wanted a private high end club, just join a Country Club with similar amenities (Bar,Restaurant,Pool,Gym,Tennis,Golf etc.) to the PAA.

A great addition to Pitt, similar to Alumni Hall,University Club and Concordia Club.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[CrazyPaco]

Since this Building is listed as an Historical Building, a lot of potential bidders won't have an interest because it cannot be torn down (nor should it) to put in a medical office building or whatever.

As I stated before why would anyone want to maintain membership in a club with so many problems.

If someone wanted a private high end club, just join a Country Club with similar amenities (Bar,Restaurant,Pool,Gym,Tennis,Golf etc.) to the PAA.

A great addition to Pitt, similar to Alumni Hall,University Club and Concordia Club.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Really it would trump all of those additions. It is a post-card type of building. Pitt has only has one building in Oakland individually listed on the National Registry, and that one building that is the Cathedral of Learning. This would be the second.

That said, listing on the National Registry doesn't afford legal protection from keeping it from being torn down. Only City of Pittsburgh historic designation provides that, and the PAA doesn't have that. However, it sits in the Schenley Farms historic district boundaries and there is no way that the planning or historic review commission would ever permit it.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Really it would trump all of those additions. It is a post-card type of building. Pitt has only has one building in Oakland individually listed on the National Registry, and that one building that is the Cathedral of Learning. This would be the second.

That said, listing on the National Registry doesn't afford legal protection from keeping it from being torn down. Only City of Pittsburgh historic designation provides that, and the PAA doesn't have that. However, it sits in the Schenley Farms historic district boundaries and there is no way that the planning or historic review commission would ever permit it.

Did not know that.

I'm sure if anyone wanted to buy it for the property/location and demolish it, they would run into major resistance as you said. Pitt saying they will purchase the facility and preserve the exterior Architectural Beauty of the Historical Building should have an advantage in purchasing the building.

I'm sure Pitt probably had an interest in the Old Schenley High School but would have run into too much resistance. I don't see that would be the case for the PAA.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[CrazyPaco]

Did not know that.

I'm sure if anyone wanted to buy it for the property and demolish it, they would run into major resistance as you said. Pitt saying they will purchase the facility and preserve the exterior Architectural Beauty of the Historical Building should have an advantage in purchasing the building.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Yeah, the only protection federally is if it is designated a National Landmark. Being placed on the Registry of National Historic Places only "signifies" that it is worthy of protection and affords tax incentives for preservation (there are about 80K individual properties on this list nationally, and 2.5K of those are designated National Landmarks; in the city limits of Pittsburgh it is 230 and 10).

Pitt's only other building individually listed on the national registry is the Allegheny Observatory. With that said, many of its buildings are within the Schenley Farms and Oakland Civic Center National Historic Districts (as was the University Place Office building which they tore down for Nordenberg Hall). The City has the same districts designated so change mandates review, but not preservation.

Pitt has a fabulous track record and reputation for preserving historic buildings. In addition to the above former clubs, it has acquired and preserved the Schenley Hotel, Schenley Apartments, first building of the Mellon Institute for Industrial Research, National Union Fire Insurance Company building, Holland mansion, First Church of Christ Scientist, Ruskin Apartments, Eureka Building, and Loeffler Building.

They've screwed up some things too in their history: Thaw Hall's facade was nearly destroyed by the SRCC being annexed on to it. Logan armory's facade should have probably been retained in the design of Benedum auditorium. And of course, there is Pitt Stadium, which should have been on the historic lists. There's probably some arguments for State and Pennsylvania Hall's facades to be retained in some fashion as well, and perhaps even part of Forbes Field. Architectural styles always go out of fashion for a time, and the buildings have to get through that period unscathed to avoid demolition. The William Pitt Union, for instance, was almost demolished by Pitt to be transformed into a brutalist building. PAA is easily safely through that period.

 

[HailtoPitt]

I hope Pitt buys it. We need an on campus bowling alley.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I hope Pitt buys it. We need an on campus bowling alley.

The repurposement of that building would be interesting. Yes, I'd have to think they'd keep aspects of it for student recreation.

The pool in there used to be the main home of the swim team before Trees was built.

 

[chethejet]

CP on camps stadium was not something that is in the cards now. But at some point it will be. If Pitt were to build a new facility, it certainly would be somewhere that would be considered on campus. Many have suggested locations, but it certainly would not be Cranberry or Washington if that is where the Steelers move to. Maybe not in the heart of Oakland, but within Pitt's campus.

 

[CrazyPaco]

CP on camps stadium was not something that is in the cards now. But at some point it will be. If Pitt were to build a new facility, it certainly would be somewhere that would be considered on campus. Many have suggest locations, but it certainly would not be Cranberry or Washington if that is where the Steelers move to.

No it won't. Not without some unforeseen ability to expand the campus footprint and some substantial infrastructure changes that are out of the university's hands.

 

[WiseAndGlorious]

A lacrosse field?

Would make a nice front door for...

 

[bwh05]

A lacrosse field?

We're not talking about adding lacrosse. I don't know where that rumor came from.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Brutalism be damned.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

A lacrosse field?

Ultimate frisbee

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

The repurposement of that building would be interesting. Yes, I'd have to think they'd keep aspects of it for student recreation.

The pool in there used to be the main home of the swim team before Trees was built.

More intrigued by the 400 buck rent that the student was paying. Now I'm certainly considering that this is no bargain for a place with no power or water, but assuming these things were typically working, that seemed a major deal, considering the great location

 

[9nationalchampionships]

This would be the nicest building on campus..