.I know this is a Pitt football board. I am watching the final home game. If Nutting continues to own this team, who thinks the Pirates land in Las Vegas? The team would have to be better. They would build quite a stadium there. Being in a betting area, the "Las Vegas Pirates" would have the money to rival the top spending teams. Would hate to see it happen, but I can't help thinking of the possibility with the owner. Discuss..
Pirates
- Thread starter GreatBear71
- Start date
They can move tomorrow, and take the balance of the PNC Park bonds/loans with them. Nothing that Nutting owns will ever be top spending. I can honestly say I haven't watched or listened to a single inning of Pirate baseball this year. First time in my life that I can remember.
I actually want the Pirates to leave, since that's probably the only way to get rid of Nutting and his kids. Pittsburgh would get another baseball team, particularly because PNC Park has become an iconic location for baseball and seems like it's in good shape to be used more or less indefinitely.
My nightmare would be it Pittsburgh became a AAA baseball city. Our team and the entire organization is slowly dying with this owner. With the decade we had in the 70's, who could have predicted this. For the younger Pirate fans, the Bucs won the NL East in 1970, 71, 72, 74, 75, and 79. They came in 2nd to the Phillies in 76, 77, and 78, and in 73, 3rd to the Mets. We won the World Series over the Orioles in 71 and 79. Sounds like a Yankees kind of decade. No, it was actually the Pittsburgh PIrates.
Pirates won 3 in a row against Cubs, seems as tho they dont want the #1 Pick. lol
I do miss the Pirates being in a division with the Mets and Phillies.
I do miss the Pirates being in a division with the Mets and Phillies.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I don't know. I preface all of this with, I really don't care because I'm tired of what we have and I can't bring myself to support this mess. I think financially, the investment in facilities wouldn't be as easy to justify. Here's the thing, when you bring up how miserable this club is on this board, the vast majority of the supporters always say it's about the experience of going to the park and enjoying the being there. If that's really the case, a AAA club that feeds a good organization might be ideal for the city. You'd think Pittsburgh would be very attractive to many eastern franchises. Just a half-wit opinion but I don't see what we have as sustainable.
Edit: The only thing that probably helps -- given nothing else changes -- is if the Pirates were able to move back to the East and play their natural rivals.
If the Pirates sweep the Cleveland Indians, they will have 21 wins. The least amount of wins right now is 22 in both leagues. We get the first pick,
If we play the Phillies, the Mets, the Nationals, the Braves, and the Marlins, how would things be better? Same owner, same lack of money, etc. We would lose there too, Interesting point, however, with a AAA club. We feed the Yankees!
We ARE a AAA baseball city. You are watching a AAA level ball club.
The problem is the fact that no one with the money to own the Pirates, who would be interested in buying the team would want to keep them here.
Sorry, but when your City has 1/3 of its 1950 population, when your county loses people and when you don't invest in infrastructure (how is the red, blue, yellow, green belt working out?) you lose the things that mark a major metro area.
The steel industry left almost 40 years ago...time to come up with a different excuse for decline.
The Pirates merely reflect Pittsburgh's status as a metro area.
No way would Pittsburgh get another MLB team.
Nutting won't be an owner forever. If the Pirates leave, MLB leaves Pittsburgh forever.
Pittsburgh metro is #27, which is larger than 4 other MLB metros and larger than the metro you mentioned (Nashville #36), as well as the OP (Las Vegas #28).
I don’t think that is true. We should get another team and there would be buyers out there for a new team. We can’t let nuttball ruins pirate baseball he will get his comeuppance eventually hopefully not in Pittsburgh. Baseball knows what he has done to baseball in Pittsburgh....it’s a shamed the
pirates name should stay in this city
I think it is absolutely true. There is no way MLB is placing a new team in a small market like Pittsburgh when there are larger, more lucrative, monied, and growing markets that are begging for teams and willing to throw major money at gaining one. If the Pirates leave, Pittsburgh would probably end up with a AAA team and would essentially be Buffalo, and we know how minor league teams do in the city so that team probably wouldn't last either. There is absolutely no way Pittsburgh would get an MLB today.
And my lord, how bad would it look to lose a team that has been in the city for 133 years. That would send an appalling message about the city to the rest of the nation.
I don't care how much you hate Nutting, hoping the Pirates leave is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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I honestly don't think he ever even looks at the actual standings. Is he even a sports fan at all?
Although I strongly disagree with this, what's the downside if MLB leaves Pittsburgh forever? Is having an MLB team that loses 60% of its games over the past 30 years some kind of sacred cow? Does Pittsburgh "need" an MLB team to feel superior to Buffalo?
IMO, the Pirates aren't a real professional sports team anyway because they're not trying to win a championship. Indeed, they are not designed to. Their prime directive is to make money for the Nutting family, not to win games or represent the City or people of Western PA with success.
So why is it preferable to watch a team that's permanently bottom 5-10 at the highest level versus a a team that might win more at a lower level.
Yeah the city has, but the metro area doesn't. And that is more important. The Pittsburgh metro area was like 23rd 50 years ago, and now is 27th, so it has stayed relatively the same. Pittsburgh is ahead of Cleveland, Cincy, Milwaukee and KC.
I hate when people just look up a city's population and judge everything like that. Pittsburgh is also one of the smallest cities area wise. What you said above, it is like saying "well if you live in Moon, McKees Rocks, Shaler, Mt. Lebanon or Penn Hills, you don't go to Pittsburgh sporting events". Because all of these franchises in all of the sports don't just draw from the city per se.
Look a bit closer at those stats.
Of the top 30 metro areas only 2 lost population between 2000 and 2010. Chicago and Pittsburgh.
Of those just behind Pittsburgh in the 2010 metro census, the growth rate is high.
Vegas 16%
Austin 29%
Cincinnati 4%
KC 7%
Columbus 12%
Indy 11%
Nashville 17%
Only Cleveland lost population.
The 2020 census will be brutal for metro Pittsburgh. It will lose 2 seats in the US house (not that any us rep from the area ever actually helped) and by all accounts Pittsburgh metro will drop out of the top 40.
Pirates and Nutting are going nowhere. Literally and figuratively. Nutting owns a cash cow with a long lease. He has zero incentive to change how he operates since he is subsidized by MLB via the luxury tax rebate he receives by being a team player who doesn't rock the boat.... Nutting is at the helm of the longest dry spell in Buc history. 41 years since the Pirates' last pennant. They floundered for 33 years between 1927 and 1960. We got spoiled from 60-79 as the Pirates were competitive more often than not during that spell, and we got a taste of success from 90-92 and 2013-15. But this is not an elite franchise like the Cardinals. And never will be.
It's not even an average franchise. Nutting is an absentee landlord in mid 19th Century Ireland. Huge estate that he sucks all productive value out of. Refuses to reinvest in making it more productive or more enjoyable for the people who live there. He's happy just raking in the dough and leaving the commoners to suffer. There's absolutely no reason to support this franchise financially or emotionally.
I'm not sure where you are getting your info, but it's wrong. Pittsburgh MSA was #22 in 2010, the current estimate as of 2019 is #27. There is absolutely no chance that Pittsburgh falls out of the top 40, none.
Pennsylvania is expected to lose 1 US house seat. If that happens districts will be redrawn.
I bet you wouldn't apply that thinking to Pitt. Let's go join the American, we ought to be able to dominate there.
If Nutting is making a ton of money by not caring about winning, why would he move the team anywhere? Enlighten me.
Says alot about the local politicians. Just way too many taxes. And to be honest, being in Columbus, Indy and places like that, what kills Pittsburgh is the ridiculous topography that makes everything more convoluted and expensive. Case in point, you want to build a huge Amazon complex?? Places like Indy and Columbus has 1000's of square miles of just flat land, mostly unencumbered by major waterways. Pittsburgh, like the largest parcel of flat land is probably where the airport is until you get up into like upper Butler or Mercer County.
The topography has been both a blessing and a curse. The rivers and Mt. Washington forced the creation and maintenance of a downtown core that is bigger than Pittsburgh's population could otherwise sustain if it was totally flat. That's why Pittsburgh looks like a real city
And Lubbock looks like this even though Pittsburgh and Lubbock have the same population
Sad part is, Pittsburgh had a chance to be home to the Blue Jays this year, a team with a winning record that clinched a playoff spot. Lots of negative things being said about the Pittsburgh region and its prominence in this thread, but some folks wanted to come to our town to play competitive baseball this season. I don't know if anyone sinks as low as Nutting in terms of ruining baseball for Western Pennsylvania, but our elected officials come close.
The difference between Pitt and the Pirates is that Pitt tries. Pitt is annually in the middle of the ACC for spending. Narduzzi's salary is 27th in the country. Capel is in the top 35-40.
The Pirates have been in the top half of payroll twice in the last 20 years. They've outspent their peers - the Reds and Brewers - once each in the last 15ish years.
Pitt will win eventually because Pitt cares. It's an uphill battle but it will happen. The Pirates will never win because they don't.
But the same forces at play that is not allowing Pirates to win and compete on a high level also is most of Pitt's problem also. There are just markets/programs who can outspend you.
The Pirates could compete and even win. The Brewers win a lot and aren't a top 10 spending team. Other small market teams (e.g., Oakland and Cleveland) have won a lot more than the Pirates. It's an uphill battle, sure, but there's nothing stopping them from being a perfectly acceptable franchise except the ownership.
The office of management and budget is my source.
No chance? Remember that non citizens are included in the census count which is one reason Peduto so desperately wanted to make Pittsburgh an open city.
If I'm betting on a bright future and my two choices are Nashville or Pittsburgh I'm not wasting a penny on Pittsburgh. Sorry, but business is business.
And speaking of business, western PA has zero clout in the PA legislature. SE pa and the growing central part of the state are going to protect their seats.
There are many good things about western Pa, but there are many bad things like overlapping governmental entities.
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