Pitt deserved better

[Duneaux Harm]

The final result aside that was a genuinely fun game to watch and one in which you could see a dramatic improvement in the play of the Panthers from November. If you aren’t seeing that then you probably have just given up on the season and not giving due credit when deserved.

They lost when a kid who couldn’t hit the side of a barn in the first half went streaky. But when you cannot really score then a small streak against you really screws you over.

Mo is a delight to watch. Plain and simple.

John is being used appropriately. Capel is stepping on the John gas pedal while he can and when John is out of gas Capel knows to steer away from the kid. But again when you don’t have a sea of scorers you have no choice.

I know this post is randomly listed, but at one point, watching the Pitt defense and offense reminded me of some of the glory days when we were not a high scoring team but nobody was getting to the hole without a few black eyes and potential concussion.

At one point in this season I was looking for enough space between games for Heather to fire Jeff and put in an interim coach. Right now, I am not so sure. I do not really know these days whether you legitimately can put all the blame on a coach for behavior of these AAU kids who basically were never taught what it means to be on a team to actually play fundamental basketball. Sure, Jeff deserves a lot of the blame for thinking this was Duke and he simply could recruit a kid to Pitt the same way. But isn‘t it funny that the best basketball Pitt has played is when they have adopted the old Big East style of play. But lets face it, many of the kids getting minutes now would not be if Ithiel and Nike weren’t lost from the team. I will conjecture, though, that if Jeff knew in March that neither of those kids would be here this season AND he did not recruit anyone other than who he had already, that this team would be a decent team at this point. We would have not lost those horrid games, nor those really close games. I would project we would be sitting here with several more wins.

I actually kind of like this team, while fully knowing their limitations. I am really not sure Capel can do much else with what he has to use right now.

No, this season won’t be great and I fear John will be pretty bad during the last quarter of the season because he is just not in the shape to play a full season the way he HAS to be used. But these are my Panthers and all I really want is improvement, which is what I have seen.

Hail to Pitt and beat Omicron and SParty!!!

 

[Fsgolfdr]

A twenty yr old kid working this hard ( Big John ) should only make him fitter . Hopefully Horton ( I assume he’ll be back soon ) will make teams pay for doubling Hugley and take some heat off him .

 

[Jeffburgh]

The final result aside that was a genuinely fun game to watch and one in which you could see a dramatic improvement in the play of the Panthers from November. If you aren’t seeing that then you probably have just given up on the season and not giving due credit when deserved.

They lost when a kid who couldn’t hit the side of a barn in the first half went streaky. But when you cannot really score then a small streak against you really screws you over.

Mo is a delight to watch. Plain and simple.

John is being used appropriately. Capel is stepping on the John gas pedal while he can and when John is out of gas Capel knows to steer away from the kid. But again when you don’t have a sea of scorers you have no choice.

I know this post is randomly listed, but at one point, watching the Pitt defense and offense reminded me of some of the glory days when we were not a high scoring team but nobody was getting to the hole without a few black eyes and potential concussion.

At one point in this season I was looking for enough space between games for Heather to fire Jeff and put in an interim coach. Right now, I am not so sure. I do not really know these days whether you legitimately can put all the blame on a coach for behavior of these AAU kids who basically were never taught what it means to be on a team to actually play fundamental basketball. Sure, Jeff deserves a lot of the blame for thinking this was Duke and he simply could recruit a kid to Pitt the same way. But isn‘t it funny that the best basketball Pitt has played is when they have adopted the old Big East style of play. But lets face it, many of the kids getting minutes now would not be if Ithiel and Nike weren’t lost from the team. I will conjecture, though, that if Jeff knew in March that neither of those kids would be here this season AND he did not recruit anyone other than who he had already, that this team would be a decent team at this point. We would have not lost those horrid games, nor those really close games. I would project we would be sitting here with several more wins.

I actually kind of like this team, while fully knowing their limitations. I am really not sure Capel can do much else with what he has to use right now.

No, this season won’t be great and I fear John will be pretty bad during the last quarter of the season because he is just not in the shape to play a full season the way he HAS to be used. But these are my Panthers and all I really want is improvement, which is what I have seen.

Hail to Pitt and beat Omicron and SParty!!!

I kind of threw the towel in for a while but watched the game last night, and I am feeling your vibe with the vintage teams. A V E R Y poor mans version mind you. But, boy they are executing a 1,000 times better than the aberration we saw on the court the first half dozen games and seem to be developing their style - though they could get a LOT better on the O boards given their size with Hugs and Mo.

Mo has some talent for sure.

Hugs is progressing, he has to slow down inside offensively and get quality shots, was just throwing things up early on before he eases in to things. Again, this is functionally his freshman year.

Not slagging HCJC or the kids, but they got what they deserved so to speak, because they just don't know how to win yet, and ND focused up the last 10 minutes, got a lot better on both ends of the court, and these kids were not able to close the game out.

The only time we saw things click like that for HCJC was about a two month period this time a year ago. X, Toney, Champ had taken enough lumps that they knew how to not lose and how to win games. Then the wheels just fell off.

They have a chance to win a couple games if they can consistently play solid and find a way to close games out. But, make no mistake they other bottom half ACC teams are going to look at this team as a way to pull out a W and give them their best shot.

 

[pittchagg]

Yeah, I think Capel put it well last night when he said that they can probably beat any team they play...but they can also get beat by any team they play. They'll clearly lose a healthy collection of ACC games this season, but I don't know how often they'll get "beat." Last night wasn't a beating - like Virginia, it was a close game against a solid team where both teams had the opportunity to win down the stretch. Also like Virginia, their guy hit a few big shots down the stretch, and our guys didn't. We were on the other end of that against St. John's, but we've obviously been burnt a few times now against Minnesota, Virginia, and now Notre Dame. It's a low-variance team that plays a style to make them as competitive as their talent will allow...but that also means that you're going to find yourself in positions where relatively random outcomes (making vs. missing a contested jumper) have a huge impact on whether you win or lose. Which stinks.

This isn't an excuse for the recruiting issues, roster management stuff, or anything like that - but I think it's fair to say that they've actually played pretty sound, well-coached basketball for the past few weeks on both ends of the court. The problem is that they just don't have enough talent (which is the staff's responsibility), but to be honest, I think they're doing pretty much as good as we could have reasonably expected with this roster: they're playing hard, defending well, and executing better and more structured offense than we've seen in the Capel era. I'm not saying that's enough to warrant keeping him for another season, but it's a data point to consider in that matrix.

 

[KennyHeisman8]

I kind of threw the towel in for a while but watched the game last night, and I am feeling your vibe with the vintage teams. A V E R Y poor mans version mind you. But, boy they are executing a 1,000 times better than the aberration we saw on the court the first half dozen games and seem to be developing their style - though they could get a LOT better on the O boards given their size with Hugs and Mo.

Mo has some talent for sure.

Hugs is progressing, he has to slow down inside offensively and get quality shots, was just throwing things up early on before he eases in to things. Again, this is functionally his freshman year.

Not slagging HCJC or the kids, but they got what they deserved so to speak, because they just don't know how to win yet, and ND focused up the last 10 minutes, got a lot better on both ends of the court, and these kids were not able to close the game out.

The only time we saw things click like that for HCJC was about a two month period this time a year ago. X, Toney, Champ had taken enough lumps that they knew how to not lose and how to win games. Then the wheels just fell off.

They have a chance to win a couple games if they can consistently play solid and find a way to close games out. But, make no mistake they other bottom half ACC teams are going to look at this team as a way to pull out a W and give them their best shot.

Why can people not admit that going 5-5 from three and 8-8 from the FT line in the final 10 minutes is not normal and completely out of PItt's hands?

 

[Wanstash21]

I kind of threw the towel in for a while but watched the game last night, and I am feeling your vibe with the vintage teams. A V E R Y poor mans version mind you. But, boy they are executing a 1,000 times better than the aberration we saw on the court the first half dozen games and seem to be developing their style - though they could get a LOT better on the O boards given their size with Hugs and Mo.

Mo has some talent for sure.

Hugs is progressing, he has to slow down inside offensively and get quality shots, was just throwing things up early on before he eases in to things. Again, this is functionally his freshman year.

Not slagging HCJC or the kids, but they got what they deserved so to speak, because they just don't know how to win yet, and ND focused up the last 10 minutes, got a lot better on both ends of the court, and these kids were not able to close the game out.

The only time we saw things click like that for HCJC was about a two month period this time a year ago. X, Toney, Champ had taken enough lumps that they knew how to not lose and how to win games. Then the wheels just fell off.

They have a chance to win a couple games if they can consistently play solid and find a way to close games out. But, make no mistake they other bottom half ACC teams are going to look at this team as a way to pull out a W and give them their best shot.

I agree about knowing how to win. It's an underrated point. Burton is really the only kid that knows how to win, but that's it.

ND had 43 pts with 7 minutes left. They got hot, but we left some guys open. Their upperclassman, Hubb, made big time shots down the stretch. A kid that knows how to win games.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

Why can people not admit that going 5-5 from three and 8-8 from the FT line in the final 10 minutes is not normal and completely out of PItt's hands?

I totally agree with you there. Pitt is not a team that can survive that kind of quirky perfection. However we still have to figure out how to throw a wrench into those works some times to stop it dead. Even if the wrench has to land across the bridge of the nose of the hot shooter.

 

[Pittisit4me]

Yeah, I think Capel put it well last night when he said that they can probably beat any team they play...but they can also get beat by any team they play. They'll clearly lose a healthy collection of ACC games this season, but I don't know how often they'll get "beat." Last night wasn't a beating - like Virginia, it was a close game against a solid team where both teams had the opportunity to win down the stretch. Also like Virginia, their guy hit a few big shots down the stretch, and our guys didn't. We were on the other end of that against St. John's, but we've obviously been burnt a few times now against Minnesota, Virginia, and now Notre Dame. It's a low-variance team that plays a style to make them as competitive as their talent will allow...but that also means that you're going to find yourself in positions where relatively random outcomes (making vs. missing a contested jumper) have a huge impact on whether you win or lose. Which stinks.

This isn't an excuse for the recruiting issues, roster management stuff, or anything like that - but I think it's fair to say that they've actually played pretty sound, well-coached basketball for the past few weeks on both ends of the court. The problem is that they just don't have enough talent (which is the staff's responsibility), but to be honest, I think they're doing pretty much as good as we could have reasonably expected with this roster: they're playing hard, defending well, and executing better and more structured offense than we've seen in the Capel era. I'm not saying that's enough to warrant keeping him for another season, but it's a data point to consider in that matrix.

It is amazing what actually having a decent low post player with a real body can do for a team. Capel looks like he can coach all of the sudden because they finally have a player to run the offense through. Even with a lower level of talent, they are playing well. Hugley has also helped hugely defensively, as he handles the hedge pretty well, unlike TB and the others we have had recently.
Anyway, should Horton make it back soon, we are going to win these close games. He will make a fair percentage of his threes and also open up more space for big John and others.

 

[TD_6082]

Yeah, I think Capel put it well last night when he said that they can probably beat any team they play...but they can also get beat by any team they play. They'll clearly lose a healthy collection of ACC games this season, but I don't know how often they'll get "beat." Last night wasn't a beating - like Virginia, it was a close game against a solid team where both teams had the opportunity to win down the stretch. Also like Virginia, their guy hit a few big shots down the stretch, and our guys didn't. We were on the other end of that against St. John's, but we've obviously been burnt a few times now against Minnesota, Virginia, and now Notre Dame. It's a low-variance team that plays a style to make them as competitive as their talent will allow...but that also means that you're going to find yourself in positions where relatively random outcomes (making vs. missing a contested jumper) have a huge impact on whether you win or lose. Which stinks.

This isn't an excuse for the recruiting issues, roster management stuff, or anything like that - but I think it's fair to say that they've actually played pretty sound, well-coached basketball for the past few weeks on both ends of the court. The problem is that they just don't have enough talent (which is the staff's responsibility), but to be honest, I think they're doing pretty much as good as we could have reasonably expected with this roster: they're playing hard, defending well, and executing better and more structured offense than we've seen in the Capel era. I'm not saying that's enough to warrant keeping him for another season, but it's a data point to consider in that matrix.

Very good post.

When it comes to Capel's job status, I would think the decision makers at Pitt have a pretty good idea which direction they are going to go, regardless of how this season plays out. I don't think there is a lot he can do to change that at this point. (and I'm not trying to imply that means change)

However, if the way things play out this season is going to weigh heavily in that determination, they have to start getting some wins. I don't think 7 or 8 wins in a historically bad year for the league is going to cut it - unless they are just dead set on bringing him back for a 5th year.

 

[Duneaux Harm]

Very good post.

When it comes to Capel's job status, I would think the decision makers at Pitt have a pretty good idea which direction they are going to go, regardless of how this season plays out. I don't think there is a lot he can do to change that at this point. (and I'm not trying to imply that means change)

However, if the way things play out this season is going to weigh heavily in that determination, they have to start getting some wins. I don't think 7 or 8 wins in a historically bad year for the league is going to cut it - unless they are just dead set on bringing him back for a 5th year.

I think the reality at this point is he is coming back.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I think the reality at this point is he is coming back.

I would say that’s the opposite of reality. Although I do think 8 saves his job.

 

[Pittisit4me]

I think the reality at this point is he is coming back.

I tend to agree. The best recruiting job he can do at this point is make sure that Jon, Femi, Burton, and Horton return. Sure would be nice to add some high school talent, but that ship has probably sailed. Go to the portal and get a shooter, and an athlete like Big MO and you have a chance to get something going.
Capel is coaching this year. I see an unselfish team playing together and playing very hard. Big Jon has given him a player to run the offense through and now they don't look so disorganized. Jon also handles the hedge better than players we have had the last couple years, which has really helped the team Defense. In short, Jon is the biggest reason we look like a basketball team lately.
it is ironic, that we haven't had a quality post player during the Capel era but have had some quality players like Toney and Penny. Now we finally have that guy, and the talent around him is diminished.
Get Horton back and this team starts to win these tight games!

 

[Duneaux Harm]

I would say that’s the opposite of reality. Although I do think 8 saves his job.

I used to think that but not now. The team is no doubt playing better. Heather can see that and no doubt would rather not pursue a new coach.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

I used to think that but not now. The team is no doubt playing better. Heather can see that and no doubt would rather not pursue a new coach.

They lost one of like 4 winnable games. They’re gonna have no recruiting class and at least 1 starter will transfer. This would be an absolute disaster of a mistake by her.

 

[gary2]

I agree about knowing how to win. It's an underrated point. Burton is really the only kid that knows how to win, but that's it.

ND had 43 pts with 7 minutes left. They got hot, but we left some guys open. Their upperclassman, Hubb, made big time shots down the stretch. A kid that knows how to win games.

If you watched the Capel post game press conference, he said the kids didn’t execute what they were coached to do.

 

[TD_6082]

I used to think that but not now. The team is no doubt playing better. Heather can see that and no doubt would rather not pursue a new coach.

Without question, the team is improving. I just don't think losing buzzer beaters to other bad teams necessarily does a lot to instill confidence going forward.

Even if everyone returns, there is still a fairly low ceiling with this group of guys, imo. If he gets a fifth year, it's simply because they just don't want to deal with the buyout/search and
give him every opportunity and then some to turn it around.

I think Brey is probably in trouble this year too.

 

[Wanstash21]

If you watched the Capel post game press conference, he said the kids didn’t execute what they were coached to do.

View embedded media

I agree with him. We left Hubb wide open for 3 triples. Left another kid on the wing wide open. The only one that's tough is the last 3 where Hugley and I think Burton or Femi were right there closing out and the kid still buried it.

 

[Wanstash21]

Without question, the team is improving. I just don't think losing buzzer beaters to other bad teams necessarily does a lot to instill confidence going forward.

Even if everyone returns, there is still a fairly low ceiling with this group of guys, imo. If he gets a fifth year, it's simply because they just don't want to deal with the buyout/search and
give him every opportunity and then some to turn it around.

I think Brey is probably in trouble this year too.

ND isn't a bad team. If Hubb plays like this they're going to be tough. Hubb, Atkinson and Wesley is a great 3 man combo. Wesley is a legit top ACC player as a Freshman. That kid is a nightmare.

 

[gary2]

Without question, the team is improving. I just don't think losing buzzer beaters to other bad teams necessarily does a lot to instill confidence going forward.

Even if everyone returns, there is still a fairly low ceiling with this group of guys, imo. If he gets a fifth year, it's simply because they just don't want to deal with the buyout/search and
give him every opportunity and then some to turn it around.

I think Brey is probably in trouble this year too.

Mo is gone. Who starts at power forward? Who are the subs at Center and PF?

Do you continue to play Jeffress 35 plus at small forward? Do you really want to start Nike or Burton there?

Without very good recruiting in the late period, next years best possible returning team is about equal to this years team.

 

[TD_6082]

ND isn't a bad team. If Hubb plays like this they're going to be tough. Hubb, Atkinson and Wesley is a great 3 man combo. Wesley is a legit top ACC player as a Freshman. That kid is a nightmare.

Just my opinion. I think they will struggle to finish .500 and make a coaching change at the end of the season. I call that bad.

 

[Wanstash21]

Just my opinion. I think they will struggle to finish .500 and make a coaching change at the end of the season. I call that bad.

I'd also call that bad.. I think they have the makeup to be a solid team. Not much depth to speak of, but I like their core guys quite a bit.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Just my opinion. I think they will struggle to finish .500 and make a coaching change at the end of the season. I call that bad.

Yeah they stink and this will be Brey’s last year as they’ll force him to retire at best. They’ll be a bottom 5 ACc team in a terrible ACC

 

[gary2]

Yeah they stink and this will be Brey’s last year as they’ll force him to retire at best. They’ll be a bottom 5 ACc team in a terrible ACC

How many teams in the ACC exert as little defensive pressure as ND?

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

How many teams in the ACC exert as little defensive pressure as ND?

Haven’t watched every team but they’re not real athletic or long. They will struggle when they don’t shoot well

 

[gary2]

Haven’t watched every team but they’re not real athletic or long. They will struggle when they don’t shoot well

Thanks for the reply.

Not asking for ND, more about what we can expect from Pitt in the ACC.

Wondering if many teams bring pressure and if we can handle pressure. Playing against our last 2 opponents was easy.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Thanks for the reply.

Not asking for ND, more about what we can expect from Pitt in the ACC.

Wondering if many teams bring pressure and if we can handle pressure. Playing against our last 2 opponents was easy.

FSU, Duke will for sure. Probably VT. If you don’t win games where you only turn the ball over 6 times…

 

[TD_6082]

I'd also call that bad.. I think they have the makeup to be a solid team. Not much depth to speak of, but I like their core guys quite a bit.

I think the core group has a pretty high basketball IQ and a decent amount of skill. I think they lack athleticism and quickness. (other than Wesley) They are easily pushed around in the post.

We'll see how it plays out.

 

[sonofabit]

Thanks for the reply.

Not asking for ND, more about what we can expect from Pitt in the ACC.

Wondering if many teams bring pressure and if we can handle pressure. Playing against our last 2 opponents was easy.

WVU kinda pressure…or Duke kinda pressure? We’ve already seen a mugging and Femi didn’t react well.

 

[gary2]

Mo is gone. Who starts at power forward? Who are the subs at Center and PF?

Do you continue to play Jeffress 35 plus at small forward? Do you really want to start Nike or Burton there?

Without very good recruiting in the late period, next years best possible returning team is about equal to this years team.

Capel wants a big, wing and guard for this recruiting class.

Even if he got them, would that come anywhere near satisfying our needs?

Pitt Offers 2022 Four-Star Guard Desmond Claude

After a quiet couple of weeks for Pitt basketball recruiting, Jeff Capel extended an offer to a four-star guard by the name of Desmond Claude. After a great conversation with coach Capel and the coaching staff I am thankful to receive an offer to the University of Pittsburgh...

pittsburghsportsnow.com

 

[PittPharm2002]

I would say that’s the opposite of reality. Although I do think 8 saves his job.

Your insights on the situation are your opinions .

 

[PittPharm2002]

Capel wants a big, wing and guard for this recruiting class.

Even if he got them, would that come anywhere near satisfying our needs?

Pitt Offers 2022 Four-Star Guard Desmond Claude

After a quiet couple of weeks for Pitt basketball recruiting, Jeff Capel extended an offer to a four-star guard by the name of Desmond Claude. After a great conversation with coach Capel and the coaching staff I am thankful to receive an offer to the University of Pittsburgh...

pittsburghsportsnow.com

Yes
Your obsession will likely have an extra season

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Your insights on the situation are your opinions .

Correct, Souf. This is a message board where people interact with opinions.

thanks as always for your contributions

 

[PittPharm2002]

Correct, Souf. This is a message board where people interact with opinions.

thanks as always for your contributions

Clarifying as you seem to pretend you have some actual insight -
When you don’t

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Clarifying as you seem to pretend you have some actual insight -
When you don’t

Thanks again. Try not to go insane and get removed from the website this time.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Just read article in XJ on Indiana site. Gave reason for leaving Pitt has hating to keep losing games.

Not producing a winner early on will kill your recruiting of quality players (freshmen or transfers) fairly quickly as well as causing players to transfer out.

Big big problem for Capel. Barring a miracle his "window of opportunity" to succed has most likely closed.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

Just read article in XJ on Indiana site. Gave reason for leaving Pitt has hating to keep losing games.

Not producing a winner early on will kill your recruiting of quality players (freshmen or transfers) fairly quickly as well as causing players to transfer out.

Big big problem for Capel.

Seems a bit disingenuous from XJ as he wasn’t invited back most likely, but good for him.