Yeah I would also love to be proven wrong. But I just don’t think he’s the guy. Despite what the naysayers say, I think there is a ton of potential for football success at Pitt. We are a good school in a respectable conference with a strong overall history. Western PA still puts out good recruits and will probably always do so. It isn’t a lost cause and we shouldn’t have to settle with the ‘8 wins is what we should reasonably expect’ mentality. Somebody out there can get us there, I just don’t know who.
Pitt job is attractive
- Thread starter Fk_Pitt
- Start date
Yeah I would also love to be proven wrong. But I just don’t think he’s the guy. Despite what the naysayers say, I think there is a ton of potential for football success at Pitt. We are a good school in a respectable conference with a strong overall history. Western PA still puts out good recruits and will probably always do so. It isn’t a lost cause and we shouldn’t have to settle with the ‘8 wins is what we should reasonably expect’ mentality. Somebody out there can get us there, I just don’t know who.
Kind of Lost it. He went 1-11 in his second season. i remember Bill Walsh bashing Pitt and talking Walt up as being one of the nost brilliant minds in coaching and the guy who would lead Stanford to greatness.
Then Walt went on to have a losing season in his first year and went 1-11 in his second.
Bill Walsh was a very good coach, but unfortunately not so good at predicting the success of other coaches.
More than a handful of coaches could win 9 + games at Pitt and would do it for quite a bit less money than Narduzzi makes right now.
Pitt either grabs
1) a head coach from a program in a lower tier conference has 9+ wins for at least two consecutive years
or
2) young coordinator from one of the elite programs. He will take the job with something to prove - you will be getting a driven perfectionist who will coach and recruit his ass off so he can win 10 games and grab the eye of one of the elite jobs. When he eventually leaves, not only will Pitt’s stock be elevated, but one of his coordinators would likely be ready to take over and keep Pitt recruiting and playing at a high level.
The departure of Virginia Tech and Miami from the big east kind of killed Walt at Pitt. I was somewhat into recruiting back then, and when that happened it just destroyed the momentum Walt was building over the years. If you all remember, Walt was not a natural speaker and kind of had a lisp. Nonetheless, he was getting better classes each year, and could have had his best until the ACC raid destroyed it. After Walt's departure, hiring Wanny was like like a God send. Like him or not, he instantly maintained Pitt college football relevance.
Remember Wanny's first season? First game of the season, college game day, Wanny vs Fat Charlie (Notre Dame) at Heinz field? Sure we lost big time, but Wanny kept us on the big stage. We could have been left for dead.
That ACC raid and playing in the remnants of the Big East was such a killer to our program. It ruined Walt. We got some "juice" so to speak by hiring Wanny which kept us alive in a dying conference. That was screwed up and we went into a coaching carousel, which hindered us from taking advantage of getting into the ACC.
I was fortunate enough to be drinking beer on a Saturday morning for college game day twice in my college years. VT with Walt and ND with Wanny. I don't think I will ever see it again. Walt and Wanny at least had us on the national stage repeatedly. Remember Thursday night games? We may have one or two games a year now on national TV.
Actually, Pitt has already tried both. Todd Graham won at least 10 games in 3 of his 4 seasons at Tulsa. He also had back to back 10 win seasons in his 2nd & 3rd years at ASU.
#2 is a popular method. That's basically Pat Narduzzi & Paul Chryst. And if you don't consider the programs they came from elite, here are plenty of other examples & very few succeed.
Lincoln Riley
Ryan Day
Mike Locksley
Mel Tucker
Jim McElwain
Jeremy Pruitt
Joe Aranda
Chad Morris
Jeff Scott
Randy Sanders
Clark Lea
Joe Moorhead
Kirby Smart
Three those guys have been a success. Others, either not so much or the jury is still out.
Lincoln Riley and Ryan Day were elevated to HC from a coordinator position & Kirby Smart took over for Mark Richt, who was fired after going 10-3. It's the weirdest thing. They all took over solid programs and have no trouble signing Top 5 to Top 10 recruiting classes every year. It's almost like recruiting is really, really important in college football.
A head coach need not be a defensive or offensive guru. Those guys ride the wave of publicity.
I want someone who manages people effectively and who gets the most out of them.
I want a guy who is cool under pressure, who thinks ahead and thinks clearly. I want a guy who isn’t afraid of firing or demoting someone.
My head coach can’t be hyper sensitive or over emotional.
We used to call those people leaders.
Jeff Hafley kind of guy.
I want someone who manages people effectively and who gets the most out of them.
I want a guy who is cool under pressure, who thinks ahead and thinks clearly. I want a guy who isn’t afraid of firing or demoting someone.
My head coach can’t be hyper sensitive or over emotional.
We used to call those people leaders.
Jeff Hafley kind of guy.
The Wanny firing was by far the biggest screw up.
This is a great example of where stability is important and comes into play... Wanny was fired after the 2010 season. While Pitt was busy shitting the bed and rolling in it with the Haywood/Graham fiasco, Penn State & Ohio State took on huge scandals of their own. There was a golden opportunity to make some inroads in recruiting. Pitt benefited with a few guys, but it was a far cry from what it should have been, and probably would have been had Pitt's program had their act together.
He's on the radar simply because of his reputation in recruiting. He was 6-5 last year and BC has yet to play any real competition this year. He had BC up there in the early recruiting rankings, but it appears this class has kinda stalled. He has 21 commits and the average ranking is 3.1. That isn't very good, but I don't think it's bad at all for BC.
This is a good point. Pitt is much more willing to settle for mediocrity now. If you compare Wanny to Narduzzi, its hard to see why we are so much more patient with Duzz
Year 1: 8-4 vs 6-5
Year 2: 8-4 vs 6-6
Year 3: 5-7 vs 5-7
Year 4: 7-5 vs 9-3
Year 5: 7-5 vs 9-3 (ranked #9 on Thanksgiving)
Year 6: 6-5 vs 7-5
Year 7: fired
Narduzzi started off stronger thanks to generational talents on offense he inherited but has done nothing since. Wannstedt was fired 13 months after having the team 9-1 and ranked #9 on Thanksgiving. I am quite sure that if Narduzzi ever had the team ranked 9th late in the season, Heather would build him a statue
It’s early in his tenure. He will be tested with a backup QB.
Then again, he beat Narduzzi.
He was a point better. That is also his biggest win.
His wins last year were against Duke (1-9) Texas St (2-10) Pitt (6-5) GaTech (3-6) Syracuse (1-9) and Louisville (3-7)
He has wins over Colgate, UMass, and Temple this year.
He really hasn't proven much to this point.
By your definition then every coaching job where a guy leaves to go to a different job is a stepping stone. So as I said above since 2008 there have been over 300 FBS coaching changes and with only 150 schools in FBS that is 2 per school. So, essentially every school but Alabama is a stepping stone. Hell at that point almost every NFL assistant gig is a stepping stone because so many of those guys end up in college ranks again.
So there Really is no such thing as a stepping stone job since basically every job you ever had in your life was a stepping stone job until the last one you will take and retire from.
I know. I know. The whole narrative behind stepping stone is to make the school look like a bad job because people leave it for better pastures. Again 300 changes since 2008 leaves a hell of a lot of stepping stone Schools.
So if James from State College hops the plane to SoCal by your definition Penn State becomes a stepping stone school.
If you want to get into counting points that’s fine with me. Look at BC ND and Pitt ND last year.
I’m not ready to anoint Hafley as the next Bear Bryant, but I know what I have now after 7 years and PN hasn’t proven anything.
Except a repeating theme of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I mean it couldn't possibly be any more clear that Narduzzi is a "7-5 coach." He's remarkably consistent in that. There is almost no chance that his record will ever differentiatr more than 2-3 games off of 7-5. So, is that good enough for Pitt or do we take a chance of getting someone worse and believe me, there are PLENTY of lottery tickets out there who will do worse.
well Chryst should have put more effort into the job if he really felt it was a stepping stone. Based on his performance, the only job he was auditioning for was offensive coordinator at a Big 10 school after he was fired here in 2015 (or 2016 after losing to the nits). Chryst is the all time luckiest coach in the world in that the only place that would hire him, Wisky, happened to have an opening when his seat was getting a little warm here.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
I think Walt famously punted on third down in a game out there.
Beats the $hit out of losing to WMU in your 7th season, a team that a re-tooling Michigan team coming off its worst season in modern history beat by 33 (and could have beat by 63).
Foge did, against the Nits. With Marino as QB. Tells you all you need to know about that era.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Chryst knew the Whisky job was his. He was on loan and was even telling recruits to wait to commit. He was passing time.
He let UCONN & Cinci pass us in the pecking order of the Big East. Please stop with the Wanny shouldn't have been fired stuff.
He punted on third down twice against Nebraska in the Flood Game!
So what would make it a more attractive ?
How about the commitment of the chancellor and those on the board coming on board to build a winning Fb program , not saying it , but actually putting their money where their mouths are .
Go out an target who you want and find out exactly what it would take to get the job done and make the offer too attractive to turn down .
The problem is that Pitt just isn’t interested in doing what it needs to do to win and so the future will just be more of the same . Empty seats bad loses and an occasional surprising win .
Okay,... but I'm just curious why you bring up Pitt/ND & BC/ND from last year and conveniently leave out Pitt/VaTech & BC/VaTech? BC losing to the Hokies 40-14 doesn't have anything to do with it does it?
No.
But to be fair, Narduzzi lost the last 2 games to BC. So he’s got that part mastered. That and the “oh shat, what am I gonna do.”
I guess we will have to wait on Hafley. For the verdict on Narduzzi, it’s in.
If BC is content for a 7 to 9 win ceiling, he might be okay. If not, he probably won't succeed at BC and needs to find a job where can sign better talent.
Is the Pitt win Hafley's best so far?
Is the Pitt win Hafley's best so far?
He’s been HC for less than 2 seasons so I expect that it is.
Good point his best friend is in year 7 with , his best team ever , and we might get 7 MIGHT, BYE DUZZIE
I went to that Pittsburgh / ND game - pitting Wannstedt against Charlie Weiss. Speaking of Pitting. My goodness. I went with my buddy who was a huge ND fan and I was feeling pretty good that it was going to be a good game. Boy, was I wrong. What a completely humiliating loss. We got dismantled and I think I never really became a believer in Dave from that point on. That performance, especially since it was a home game, was unforgivable.
You brought up Walt not being a great speaker. You know who else had more trouble putting sentences together in front of the media? Wannstedt. You know who else? Paul Chryst. In fact, I would say Walt was actually- as hard as it is to believe- a bit better than both of those two and for all the criticism he is now getting - Pat Narduzzi comes across far more articulate and eloquent now than either Wannstedt or Chryst.
Wannstedt had trouble just getting words and thoughts out of his mouth. He was always like a dear in headlights - he never seemed to know what to say.
Chryst knew what to say, but could never seem to be able to finish a sentence.
Narduzzi is far from being a great oratorios - and we may feel he does not give us the answers we want to hear, but at least he can deliver complete; intelligible thoughts.
This jabber is moot. Everyone assumes there exists a person on the Pitt campus who could actually identify a “good” coach let alone a competent one.
Did you watch that game? If you had, you’d have seen a team that wasn’t just bad, but one of the worst prepared Pitt teams ever. That game was a brutal beat down and it wasn’t because of one team having far superior talent on the field. Notes Dame had more talent, but not that much more talent.
Still, I wouldn’t say I completely bailed on him.
I didn’t believe he was ever going to be capable of elevating Pitt to much more than above average- and it even took him a long time to reach that level. He simply was never going to have the talent nor the drive for perfection needed to take Pitt to the next level. Was I wrong?
Last edited:
At first, I thought he might just be a contrarian, but I’m now starting to believe he just likes stirring the pot.
No, he is a good guy, real good guy actually , he just loves Duzz more than anything , but he is wrong on this
Todd was only at Pitt for a year - it was the right strategy to go after a guy like him - just the wrong guy to go after. He had no connections to recruits anywhere in the area and he didn’t bring in the same level of coordinators he previously had done - which helped him win more games.
Pitt won 27 games between 2008 - 2010. Make whatever you want to out that.
I agree Pitt wasn't prepared in the Notre Dame opener, but I disagree with about talent. Natre Dame was a far superior team to Pitt in 05. They beat a top 5 team the next week. That's the ND team that lost the infamous 'Bush Push' game.
I have to disagree with you. Pat Narduzzi IS the right guy for the job. He is by all accounts a like able guy who gains the trust and respect of not only his players but their family as well. Also, he genuinely seems to love his job and the Pitt Football program.
The issue at Pitt isn't Pat Narduzzi. The issue lies at a level or two above him, within the Pitt Athletic Department. There are major issues and no one at that higher level seems interested in addressing them.
The reality of it is, if you could get a Nick Saban, Urban Meyer or any of the other Top 10 coaches in the country to come to Pitt (which Pitt can't do because of the "issue"), they will do no better then him. The recruits the top schools get now, few if any, would ever commit to Pitt.
That hurts to say, because I want nothing more then Pitt football to return to that upper echelon of college that it had during the late 70's and early 80's.
Sadly, I can't see it happening any time in the near future.
