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Pitt needs to ditch pro style offense

The game plan was fine if they could complete a pass downfield. Every team is going to stack the box until Pitt proves they can beat them downfield in the passing game.

RPO isn't going to matter if you can't throw the ball. They had guys open deep on many occasions. They couldn't make a play. All these teams you mention with RPO and explosive offenses make those plays consistently.
 
and get with the 21st century in instituting the read pass option offense. The big time powers to the east and west both have it and they have explosive offenses.

Time to get with the program Narduzzi

Yep.
Pickett is the type of QB that Dan Mullen takes and puts up points with.
He needs a spread, simple reads, RPO-Read-Option offense.
 
They tried some RPO last year and it didn't work.

They also tried handing the ball off and throwing the ball last year and it didn't work. That doesn't mean we should just take a knee this year.

RPO needs to one component of a system. It's certainly not going to save the system.
 
Once RPO is instituted then different types of qbs must be targeted in recruiting. I have my doubts that Narduzzi would ever make this change so the next coach that Heather hires will have to do it
 
They also tried handing the ball off and throwing the ball last year and it didn't work. That doesn't mean we should just take a knee this year.

RPO needs to one component of a system. It's certainly not going to save the system.

The TD run by Davis was a RPO set. So it exists in Whipple's playbook.

I have no problem with them running it more, but it's not a magic bullet for what ails them.
 
A QB that can process information quickly and get rid of the football.

and can run. PSU and OSU both have had qbs who can pass for 200 and run for another 100. Except for Haskins who wasn’t much of a runner.

And it really isn’t as difficult to recruit that type of qb as you might think. RPO is becoming the norm
 
I’m way out of date, so I’m probably the only person who thinks this way. Anyways, since 2005 Pitt has been a run heavy program and has/is toting itself as “RBU” etc. And that’s fine; it’s ok to have that identity. That identity can lead into being a perennial top 25 team (think Wisconsin). This year they’re trying a pass heavy attack and the personnel just isn’t there to do it. Pick an identity and build your program around it.
 
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If you can’t block no scheme works. If you have solid O line play any scheme works. You also need solid QB play. We have neither.

Pickett can be replaced at any time although we don’t know what’s behind him. The O line is a whole different kind of problem. They struggled in Whipple’s zone blocking scheme and they were unable to protect the passer on what were to be downfield pass plays. You can’t replace a 5 man unit, they have to get better, and fast

The QB obviously didn’t have the feel and instincts to make use of the blocking he did get.

I would prefer a more updated, dynamic offense myself, but the scheme is not the issue, its the personnel. Also, unlike last year, I think the mix of play calling, multiple formations, pre-snap motion and changing tempo was fine. It was the inability to execute on offense that doomed us.
 
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Badby again, is correct.

Pitt fans are killing Pickett and while criticism is warranted the OL was awful Sat night.

If our OL cant run block we are looking at 5 wins tops.

If they can get it together, and Pitt can move the ball on the ground,

Then this season can be salvaged.

Pickett AND the OL need to get better and fast.
 
Badby again, is correct.

Pitt fans are killing Pickett and while criticism is warranted the OL was awful Sat night.

If our OL cant run block we are looking at 5 wins tops.

If they can get it together, and Pitt can move the ball on the ground,

Then this season can be salvaged.

Pickett AND the OL need to get better and fast.
And the OL WILL get more cohesive. I would prefer Houy to replace Ulizio eventually and Drake or Big Jake to take a guard spot so we don't have a missing piece again going into next season. This group can jell as is and still have a good season going forward. Can't keep starting from scratch every season.
 
I’m way out of date, so I’m probably the only person who thinks this way. Anyways, since 2005 Pitt has been a run heavy program and has/is toting itself as “RBU” etc. And that’s fine; it’s ok to have that identity. That identity can lead into being a perennial top 25 team (think Wisconsin). This year they’re trying a pass heavy attack and the personnel just isn’t there to do it. Pick an identity and build your program around it.
You have an idiot for a coach...why would we do that
 
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I’m way out of date, so I’m probably the only person who thinks this way. Anyways, since 2005 Pitt has been a run heavy program and has/is toting itself as “RBU” etc. And that’s fine; it’s ok to have that identity. That identity can lead into being a perennial top 25 team (think Wisconsin). This year they’re trying a pass heavy attack and the personnel just isn’t there to do it. Pick an identity and build your program around it.

This is SPOT on. Once you have an identity you can recruit top talent at those positions regularly and add in from there. I think our defense has an identity and believe it has paid dividends recruiting.
 
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1. I would say the offense still sucked.

2. Huh? You're missing the point I was making.


1. Well it certainly wasn't great, or even good.

2. If I missed your point it's because you were trying to make a point other than what you clearly typed. You said they tried handing the ball off and that didn't work. How much better than two 1,000 yard rushers, one of whom averaged 6.3 yards per carry and the other of whom averaged 7.5 yards per carry for a combined 21 touchdowns, does a running game have to be before you would agree that handing the ball off worked?
 
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1. Well it certainly wasn't great, or even good.

2. If I missed your point it's because you were trying to make a point other than what you clearly typed. You said they tried handing the ball off and that didn't work. How much better than two 1,000 yard rushers, one of whom averaged 6.3 yards per carry and the other of whom averaged 7.5 yards per carry for a combined 21 touchdowns, does a running game have to be before you would agree that handing the ball off worked?

Agree. The problem with last year's run offense is they didn't do it enough. If they went straight power football instead of RPO and not be so pass happy with an inept QB they more than likely win North Carolina, Notre Dame, and Stanford. The UCF, PSU, Miami and Clemson game would at least be closer if not maybe even pull one off.

It was like they were embarrassed to be what they were.

As for those calling for a "21 Century Offense" yeah let's keep trying to recruit against the blue bloods for those type of players instead of the guys who are studs that fit Pitt's style. Also with all the pass happy offenses out there now defenses have changed to adapt. They are not built for Power football anymore. Attack that don't be the same as everyoneelse.y
 
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1. Well it certainly wasn't great, or even good.

2. If I missed your point it's because you were trying to make a point other than what you clearly typed. You said they tried handing the ball off and that didn't work. How much better than two 1,000 yard rushers, one of whom averaged 6.3 yards per carry and the other of whom averaged 7.5 yards per carry for a combined 21 touchdowns, does a running game have to be before you would agree that handing the ball off worked?

My point was the idea that because a play didn’t work yesterday, doesn’t mean you don’t run it today. An RPO has over taken college football because it’s so effective. The idea that because it didn’t work within the context of our previous idiot’s offense, doesn’t mean we should ditch it.
By that logic we should ditch everything from last year because the offense sucked last year.
 
Agree. The problem with last year's run offense is they didn't do it enough. If they went straight power football instead of RPO and not be so pass happy with an inept QB they more than likely win North Carolina, Notre Dame, and Stanford. The UCF, PSU, Miami and Clemson game would at least be closer if not maybe even pull one off.

It was like they were embarrassed to be what they were.

As for those calling for a "21 Century Offense" yeah let's keep trying to recruit against the blue bloods for those type of players instead of the guys who are studs that fit Pitt's style. Also with all the pass happy offenses out there now defenses have changed to adapt. They are not built for Power football anymore. Attack that don't be the same as everyoneelse.y

This last paragraph is all kinds of dumb.
The entire reason why blue bloods like Bama came around to these offenses is because how good they are schematically. They stress the defense the most.

Your solution to gaining an advantage over teams with more talent is to run offensive systems that represent a competitive disadvantage? You think that’s going to work?

His Leach stopped running the Air Raid simply because more talented teams have now adopted its concepts? Of course not.
 
A good number of the plays Whipple drew up were effective. Theyre were many open guys for big plays. The execution was the problem, be it the QB over or under throwing open guys on the post, passes at the feet of RB on wheel route (when he did complete one of those to Davis it was a big play) or bailing too soon due to pending pressure. And, yes a couple drops too.

I'm confident some of the above might not happen again. Others, I'm not so confident.
 
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This last paragraph is all kinds of dumb.
The entire reason why blue bloods like Bama came around to these offenses is because how good they are schematically. They stress the defense the most.

Your solution to gaining an advantage over teams with more talent is to run offensive systems that represent a competitive disadvantage? You think that’s going to work?

His Leach stopped running the Air Raid simply because more talented teams have now adopted its concepts? Of course not.

Would today's Ohio St and PSU etc recruit Tom Brady? No he doesn't fit their RPO scheme. That is my point.
 
We had two 1,000 yard rushers last season. On what planet is that handing the ball off and it not working?
Apparently the planet UCF, ND,Miami and GT come from.

We ran for 250 against PSU and 200 against Clemson. What did that do for us?

You have to have balance, even more so when you don’t have a lot of talent at the 11 offensive positions.
 
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Convert 3rd downs and score TD's in the Red Zone. That's what offensive football is about. Making a defense defend the entire field while also forcing tempo can be a great equalizer for less talented teams. Still have to be good at it and execute but a fatigued, confused defense is an easier target.
BWDIK!
 
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The TD run by Davis was a RPO set. So it exists in Whipple's playbook.

I have no problem with them running it more, but it's not a magic bullet for what ails them.

GG

You are 100% correct.

Coach Whip has in the past and does run RPO.

KP was just so erratic on long and short passes with receivers open the offensive was dead in the water.

I do not want to pile on KP as I remember the fans venom towards Billy Stull, Tino and others that became overly negative for the program.

However One of KP biggest misses was a wheel route to #19 VC. KP threw the ball so far behind VC with low pressure that the ball landed behind VC and the UVa defender. One is the worst passes I have ever seen for a college QB at any level.

If KP plays that bad Pitt cannot be a good team.

FTP
NGF
 
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The TD run by Davis was a RPO set. So it exists in Whipple's playbook.

I have no problem with them running it more, but it's not a magic bullet for what ails them.

GG

You are 100% correct.

Coach Whip has in the past and does run RPO.

KP was just so erratic on long and short passes with receivers the offensive was dead in the water.
 
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Apparently the planet UCF, ND,Miami and GT come from.

We ran for 250 against PSU and 200 against Clemson. What did that do for us?

You have to have balance, even more so when you don’t have a lot of talent at the 11 offensive positions.


But the problem in those games wasn't the running game, it's that we couldn't throw the ball at a junior high level. I wouldn't have thought that was a very difficult concept to understand, especially among people who actually watched it, but I guess I was wrong.

Do we really not get that it's possible to be pretty good at one facet of the game while being really bad at another?
 
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However One of KP biggest misses was a wheel route to #19 VC. KP threw the ball so far behind VC with low pressure that the ball landed behind VC and the UVa defender. One is the worst passes I have ever seen for a college QB at any level.


That was an awful pass, but it should also be noted that even if it were a perfect pass it wasn't going to be completed, because Carter never turned his head to look back for the ball.
 
I don’t think the style of offense is the problem.

It’s the total lack of talent and depth on offense.

It’s not a coincidence that we lose more and more games by wider margins each additional season of narduzzi.
His failure to recruit is manifesting.
 
If we can't run the ball we wont be able to pass the ball especially with the OL talent that Pitt attracts.

Duzz and staff haven't adapted or adjusted the game plan to match the talent level which is Top MAC level at best.

Quick hitting running plays, rollouts with a qb run option, inside shovel pass (Matt Canada style), quick pitches to the outside, or anything other than the current playbook.
 
GG

You are 100% correct.

Coach Whip has in the past and does run RPO.

KP was just so erratic on long and short passes with receivers open the offensive was dead in the water.

I do not want to pile on KP as I remember the fans venom towards Billy Stull, Tino and others that became overly negative for the program.

However One of KP biggest misses was a wheel route to #19 VC. KP threw the ball so far behind VC with low pressure that the ball landed behind VC and the UVa defender. One is the worst passes I have ever seen for a college QB at any level.

If KP plays that bad Pitt cannot be a good team.

FTP
NGF
Good post. It shouldn't get personal but it's not "negative", it's just fact. There were two drops in the game, and 2 or 3 true defensive jailbreaks allowed by the OL that were the cause of failed pass plays.

But it was more about a dozen bad throws or ill advised bailouts by the QB before there was any genuine pressure.

The kind of throws that a D1 P5 starting QB on scholarship has to be able to make.

After 15 or so starts it seems he can't.

If this is interpreted as just another yinzer calling for the backup, it is, in a sense. But frankly I think it is too late even for that. The conclusion above needed to have been reached by Narduzzi and Whipple long long long before this. So that they could have considered what they had on the roster, and if deemed none of the alternatives were worthy (a true crime if not only the starter but the 3 other scholarship QBs are considered so hopeless, but I digress).

If so, Whipples first item of activity, 10 minutes after being hired, should have been to scour the ranks of Juco and Grad transfer QBs who could have been brought in to run his offense.

And if Narduzzi couldnt allow that, Whipple shouldn't have taken the job.

But none of this occurred and now, already a game into the season, past spring ball, past informal summer workouts, past August camp... it's frankly too late to throw the reins to any of the backups now, and expect much of anything.

Open competition was needed... but it was needed in April. Sooner really.

This is nothing new. It's the same thing Graham should have done as well. A blind lobotomy patient could have realized Tino couldn't run his offense. Graham did nothing, and having such a mismatched QB was a big reason his stint here was such a disaster.

Coaches who make such massive salaries really pull some real SMH moves.
 
But the problem in those games wasn't the running game, it's that we couldn't throw the ball at a junior high level. I wouldn't have thought that was a very difficult concept to understand, especially among people who actually watched it, but I guess I was wrong.

Do we really not get that it's possible to be pretty good at one facet of the game while being really bad at another?
Isn't that what I said?

You have to have balance, even more so when you don’t have a lot of talent at the 11 offensive positions.
 
Isn't that what I said?

You have to have balance, even more so when you don’t have a lot of talent at the 11 offensive positions.


Well yeah, it was. Right after you agreed with the person who said that handing the ball off didn't work last year.

Handing the ball off worked just fine. Throwing the ball was, for the most part, a disaster. I'm not sure why you disagreed in the first place if you think that you need balance. You don't throw out the one thing you are actually reasonably good at to try to get better at the one you suck at.
 
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