Pitt Next Level

[TFBaum]

Here is my question and Steel 55 and Parkview 57 can probably answer this better then all of us. With Pitt’s current situation how would you develop a program to get to the CFP? First speed matters but so does quick and correct decisions. So do you recreate a 70’s Steelers blocking scheme? With intense defense?

 

[steelcurtain55.]

From an x's and o's standpoint, I wouldn't stray away from what we do defensively.

From an offensive standpoint, I would not try to play the game the way the majority of CFB currently does. I thought DW was onto something from an offensive perspective (scheme-wise). Basically, he was quoted that as teams continue to get smaller on defense to defend the spread, they struggle to defend pro-style downhill attacks. I will die on that hill agreeing with him on this. This is absolutely true. Watch a good Wisky team on offense. Defenses struggle in their run fits, because it's a different type of football. The key for DW was landing a true genuine stud at QB. He was never able to do that. If PITT were to adopt that type of scheme, they would have to start landing better QB's. OR - they would need to implement the option out of that attack. Everyone - both pro-style and spread schemes are always trying to reduce the #'s in the box. They don't want the +1 defender in the run game. In the spread, it's done through alignment. In the pro-style it's through either optioning someone, or having that constant play action threat.

For the life of me, I never understood why Nebraska started experimenting with the flexbone late in Frost's career and into Crouch's career. I'm not sure if it was due to recruiting or they felt a step behind in the scheme dept. However, I've read that Osborne was the architect behind everything Nebraska did and him stepping away probably had something to do with it.

My personal opinion is minus OSU, no one above the mason dixon line can be a consistent playoff contender under the current model. Urban Meyer said this 1st year he was working for ESPN. He had the graphs and models to prove it through blue chip talent. It was reminiscent of Ross Perot in the debates.

 

[TFBaum]

From an x's and o's standpoint, I wouldn't stray away from what we do defensively.

From an offensive standpoint, I would not try to play the game the way the majority of CFB currently does. I thought DW was onto something from an offensive perspective (scheme-wise). Basically, he was quoted that as teams continue to get smaller on defense to defend the spread, they struggle to defend pro-style downhill attacks. I will die on that hill agreeing with him on this. This is absolutely true. Watch a good Wisky team on offense. Defenses struggle in their run fits, because it's a different type of football. The key for DW was landing a true genuine stud at QB. He was never able to do that. If PITT were to adopt that type of scheme, they would have to start landing better QB's. OR - they would need to implement the option out of that attack. Everyone - both pro-style and spread schemes are always trying to reduce the #'s in the box. They don't want the +1 defender in the run game. In the spread, it's done through alignment. In the pro-style it's through either optioning someone, or having that constant play action threat.

For the life of me, I never understood why Nebraska started experimenting with the flexbone late in Frost's career and into Crouch's career. I'm not sure if it was due to recruiting or they felt a step behind in the scheme dept. However, I've read that Osborne was the architect behind everything Nebraska did and him stepping away probably had something to do with it.

My personal opinion is minus OSU, no one above the mason dixon line can be a consistent playoff contender under the current model. Urban Meyer said this 1st year he was working for ESPN. He had the graphs and models to prove it through blue chip talent. It was reminiscent of Ross Perot in the debates.

Thank you

 

[TFBaum]

From an x's and o's standpoint, I wouldn't stray away from what we do defensively.

From an offensive standpoint, I would not try to play the game the way the majority of CFB currently does. I thought DW was onto something from an offensive perspective (scheme-wise). Basically, he was quoted that as teams continue to get smaller on defense to defend the spread, they struggle to defend pro-style downhill attacks. I will die on that hill agreeing with him on this. This is absolutely true. Watch a good Wisky team on offense. Defenses struggle in their run fits, because it's a different type of football. The key for DW was landing a true genuine stud at QB. He was never able to do that. If PITT were to adopt that type of scheme, they would have to start landing better QB's. OR - they would need to implement the option out of that attack. Everyone - both pro-style and spread schemes are always trying to reduce the #'s in the box. They don't want the +1 defender in the run game. In the spread, it's done through alignment. In the pro-style it's through either optioning someone, or having that constant play action threat.

For the life of me, I never understood why Nebraska started experimenting with the flexbone late in Frost's career and into Crouch's career. I'm not sure if it was due to recruiting or they felt a step behind in the scheme dept. However, I've read that Osborne was the architect behind everything Nebraska did and him stepping away probably had something to do with it.

My personal opinion is minus OSU, no one above the mason dixon line can be a consistent playoff contender under the current model. Urban Meyer said this 1st year he was working for ESPN. He had the graphs and models to prove it through blue chip talent. It was reminiscent of Ross Perot in the debates.

So my question now becomes the 40 plus million people who like in the northeast and mid Atlantic have enough 6 whatever plus and 250 plus linemen to build this sort of offense.

 

[HailToPitt725]

My opinion, from a macro perspective: If Pitt wants to reach the CFP, we simply need to bring in better recruiting classes. If I recall correctly, no team has made the playoff without having a certain amount of five star players in each class, even down to Michigan State and Washington.

However, that’s not going to happen, so what’s the next best option? I believe the closest team that came to bucking that blue chip trend was Iowa in 2015. They built their program with a focus on player retention and development. They keep guys in the program for four/five years, allowing them to find diamonds in the rough and create real depth across the board.

If Pitt ever wants to contend for the CFP, they need to have a Patrick Jones or Rashad Weaver at every position. This also means they need to have Charlie Partridges at every position.

 

[pitt-girl]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but with its current format, PITT will never reach the CFP. They just don't have the same kind of $$ and support that not only Bama, Clemson, tOSU, ND, OK have, but also some teams who do and STILL can't break through. And as @HailToPitt725 pointed out, these schools recruit every position at the very highest level.

Unless they change it, I'd be tickled with 9 or 10 win seasons.

 

[Burgh15]

It's basically impossible for a team like Pitt to compete for the playoffs. Only 11 teams have made the playoffs in its 7-year existence. Only four teams make it and in any given year, Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, and the No. 2 SEC team are going to get hyped up. There may be 2-4 other teams that get some attention, but need help with some of the previously mentioned teams losing.

It's all about recruiting power. There are the teams with the top blue chip ratios over the past four years (https://247sports.com/LongFormArtic...n-win-a-national-title-148079661/#148079661_1)

SEC: Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Florida, Auburn, and Texas A & M
Big 10: Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State
Big 12: Oklahoma and Texas
Pac 12: USC and Washington
ACC: Clemson
Independent: Notre Dame

You figure this doesn't include schools like Oregon, Tennessee, FSU, Miami, or even North Carolina. If Pitt has any chance, they'll at least need to get at the UNC level on a yearly basis. If they're lucky enough to build enough depth, they'll need a class packed with juniors and seniors with experience and then hit the jackpot on a stud QB. Even if all that happens, Pitt has to battle the perception by starting outside the top 25 every year and they have zero room for error because if they get into the top 25, the first game they lose will plummet them into the 30-35 ranking.

 

[USN_Panther]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but with its current format, PITT will never reach the CFP. They just don't have the same kind of $$ and support that not only Bama, Clemson, tOSU, ND, OK have, but also some teams who do and STILL can't break through. And as @HailToPitt725 pointed out, these schools recruit every position at the very highest level.

Unless they change it, I'd be tickled with 9 or 10 win seasons.

Pitt will never compete at that level short of cheating.
TBH, I am close to jumping off the fence of watching college sports anymore, and the lack of competitive balance is a main factor. Time is a factor as well, but other sports compete for that time too. I will never watch another MLB game. My teams will never win, so I find it pointless. Pitt is pretty much the same at this point.
My city has professional rugby and cricket teams, who have a chance every season. My son is playing national league ice hockey and when Covid is finally under control, will play internationally. Throw in test rugby and cricket ODIs and pretty much all seasons are covered. I still watch NHL, but not really NFL.
I just think that CFB has many other fans becoming disinterested and finding other outlets. I have no interest at all in watching the CFB championship game. Really just don't care.

 

[pitt-girl]

Pitt will never compete at that level short of cheating.
TBH, I am close to jumping off the fence of watching college sports anymore, and the lack of competitive balance is a main factor. Time is a factor as well, but other sports compete for that time too. I will never watch another MLB game. My teams will never win, so I find it pointless. Pitt is pretty much the same at this point.
My city has professional rugby and cricket teams, who have a chance every season. My son is playing national league ice hockey and when Covid is finally under control, will play internationally. Throw in test rugby and cricket ODIs and pretty much all seasons are covered. I still watch NHL, but not really NFL.
I just think that CFB has many other fans becoming disinterested and finding other outlets. I have no interest at all in watching the CFB championship game. Really just don't care.

Geography plays a role in sports. I know you are a PITT fan, but really how big are US College sports in NZ? Add in the time zone differences. I would most definitely be influenced to follow the sports my kids participated in and surrounded me.

College football and basketball will come back just as strong next year after COVID. Such a weird year.

JMO.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

 

[pitt-girl]

Surprised how low Clemson is - also proves how hard it is for some programs to get to that ultimate pinnacle and willing to shuffle HC's.

Texas?? Michigan?? PSU??

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

After watching some of the non-cfp games, i was actually encouraged by what i saw. Pitt isn’t nearly as deep at as a lot of teams 5–25, but the talent gap isn’t that wide. I think the deviation from Pitt’s best players to worst players is a lot wider than these teams playing these New Years day bowls. But Pitt has plenty of guys that could contribute on a lot of these teams.

Pitt’s offensive line and receivers are a joke and the defensive backfield is thin, but upgrading them from joke to respectable isnt an unreasonable proposition.

There is no point in discussing pitt and the playoff, becuase it will never happen. But a New Year’s Day bowl? not all that far off.

 

[TDinTheSnow]

My thoughts on DW is that he was Jimmy Johnson defense deciple .. little blitzing.. "our uns are better than your uns" mentality..
So when asked, "What can you do to play with Miami ?", his answer was "Run faster" . not a X and, O scheme defensive guy.. wanted to habe the better athletes...
But no way he could recruit the studs needed to Pitt, in the late 2000s, to play his type of "our athletes are better than your athletes" defense.. The game had changed too much. was much.dufferent, from his Miami. OK State and Dallas Cowboy successes ..
Eh.. just one man's opinion...

 

[Parkview57]

First speed matters but so does quick and correct decisions. So do you recreate a 70’s Steelers blocking scheme? With intense defense?

Yes, without speed nothing matters too much.....

as teams continue to get smaller on defense to defend the spread, they struggle to defend pro-style downhill attacks.

Agreed, this is the fastest, easiest, and maybe the most consistent way to a great offense at Pitt as Steel mentions because it is possible for Pitt to get the level of player(s) consistently to cause a constant mismatch within the scheme. I don't think it is the only way, the second type of offense would be in the form of a QB centric "read scheme" same idea, downhill attack, but with a talented (group) of running QBs, but Pitt would have to get the correct OC who could convince the type of QB to come to Pitt.

On a different note the defenses of PN and DW have a common element, that is, find one area that requires huge talent and give that group no help but as was mentioned simply be better than the offense, in DW's case it was the front four, in PN we all know the burden falls on the CB's. This allows the remaining defenders to find a way to win , not necessarily by individual prowess but by schemes that allow for the defense to outnumber the offense or confuse/surprise/disrupt. To be honest, I was not a fan of DW's scheme until I saw it become effective, and started to see huge disruption in receiver's patterns and pattern recognition causing a lot of PD's/int's, and at that point I got it. Now, we are starting to see players attracted to PN's scheme, DB's that want a shot at "The League" which hopefully will led to a consistent pipeline. One final observation in the similar element theme is that once the players at the key positions, (DW-DL, PN-Cb's) are in place, all you need is good solid recruiting within the other groups and you have the makings of a good solid top 25 defense, as in the case of this year's group of a NFL caliber DL. I am in the group that believe Pitt's season would have been a lot better under normal circumstances.

 

[GoMarines]

Here is my question and Steel 55 and Parkview 57 can probably answer this better then all of us. With Pitt’s current situation how would you develop a program to get to the CFP? First speed matters but so does quick and correct decisions. So do you recreate a 70’s Steelers blocking scheme? With intense defense?

In a nutshell, bring back all the steel mills, coal mines etc, and watch those sons of the tough Western Pennsylvania workers produce like they did back in the day!