Pitt's Brand outside of Allegheny (yes beating a dead horse)

[Mikefln]

We also need to stop this thinking about Western PA being our base to pull fans from. It is not. I went to Sharon PA this weekend to go to Daffins and Kraynaks like I do every Easter season for the past 10 years. Sharon PA is roughly 1 hour 30 minutes from Pitt campus. At both stores not only did Penn State have way more merchandise for sale than Pitt, but so did Ohio St and Notre Dame at both stores. Literally 1 shelf had Pitt stuff at Kraynaks and nothing at all at Daffins. Compared to Shelf after shelf of PSU gear, and multiple shelves of OSU and ND gear.

What other P5 program struggles that bad within its own state borders that close to campus?

You can say WVU, struggles closer to it campus but your in PA at that point. Plus they have the rest of the state outside of a small area that belongs to Marshall. In fact i would argue that Marshall does better in their territory than Pitt does in theirs.

Mich and Mich State compete for the same turf, but Mich State is still well represented in all places and are clearly number 2.

BC, Miami, Washington, USC/UCLA All Urban schools, they may compete with pro sports but they control their own market as far as college sports go. Yes USC/UCLA is a little different but the point remains.

Seriously can anyone think of another P5 program that struggles with a fan base that close to campus within the state they reside? This is not just Sharon/Mercer Co which is close to Ohio, this is also Fayette Co, Johnstown, Altoona, Erie. The fact of the matter is that Pitt is not a popular brand outside of Allegheny County.

 

[DiehardPanther]

We also need to stop this thinking about Western PA being our base to pull fans from. It is not. I went to Sharon PA this weekend to go to Daffins and Kraynaks like I do every Easter season for the past 10 years. Sharon PA is roughly 1 hour 30 minutes from Pitt campus. At both stores not only did Penn State have way more merchandise for sale than Pitt, but so did Ohio St and Notre Dame at both stores. Literally 1 shelf had Pitt stuff at Kraynaks and nothing at all at Daffins. Compared to Shelf after shelf of PSU gear, and multiple shelves of OSU and ND gear.

What other P5 program struggles that bad within its own state borders that close to campus?

You can say WVU, struggles closer to it campus but your in PA at that point. Plus they have the rest of the state outside of a small area that belongs to Marshall. In fact i would argue that Marshall does better in their territory than Pitt does in theirs.

Mich and Mich State compete for the same turf, but Mich State is still well represented in all places and are clearly number 2.

BC, Miami, Washington, USC/UCLA All Urban schools, they may compete with pro sports but they control their own market as far as college sports go. Yes USC/UCLA is a little different but the point remains.

Seriously can anyone think of another P5 program that struggles with a fan base that close to campus within the state they reside? This is not just Sharon/Mercer Co which is close to Ohio, this is also Fayette Co, Johnstown, Altoona, Erie. The fact of the matter is that Pitt is not a popular brand outside of Allegheny County.

Did you say something to the owner?

 

[Delpanther]

Marketing hasn’t been a strength of the Pitt Ath. Dept.....we’re a Ｓｅｃｒｅｔ even in our own backyard.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Did you say something to the owner?

its not the owner's fault, it's pitts. I talked to a guy who worked at dicks years ago, complained about lack of pitt gear and he explained it.. it's not the stores choosing this, it is pitt for some unkown reason, limiting their usage these retail outlets..

 

[GreatBear71]

its not the owner's fault, it's pitts. I talked to a guy who worked at dicks years ago, complained about lack of pitt gear and he explained it.. it's not the stores choosing this, it is pitt for some unkown reason, limiting their usage these retail outlets..

I hope Heather reads this and acts upon that. Same with Gallagher.

 

[Mikefln]

Did you say something to the owner?

No, why would I? I went there to buy chocolate and stuff for my son's Easter Basket.

I am sure they are running their business to what they believe to be the most financially beneficial. For 2 stores that are a couple miles a part both employee the same tactic of lots of (to scale of store) Steelers/Pens/Pirates/Browns/Cavs/Indians/ Penn St/Ohio St/ND gear, and only a handful of Pitt gear that tell me it is an market decision based off supply and demand and not a couple Penn State owners trying to limit Pitt's exposure. This is Pitt not creating enough demand. Not saying it is the end of the world because Pitt is not popular in Sharon PA so how can Pitt survive. I am stating that it is every other area around Pitt also that is like this. That is why Pitt has a small fan base.

 

[DiehardPanther]

No, why would I? I went there to buy chocolate and stuff for my son's Easter Basket.

I am sure they are running their business to what they believe to be the most financially beneficial. For 2 stores that are a couple miles a part both employee the same tactic of lots of (to scale of store) Steelers/Pens/Pirates/Browns/Cavs/Indians/ Penn St/Ohio St/ND gear, and only a handful of Pitt gear that tell me it is an market decision based off supply and demand and not a couple Penn State owners trying to limit Pitt's exposure. This is Pitt not creating enough demand. Not saying it is the end of the world because Pitt is not popular in Sharon PA so how can Pitt survive. I am stating that it is every other area around Pitt also that is like this. That is why Pitt has a small fan base.

Then you should be blaming the fan base and alumni. If there is a demand, then they will have the $upply.

 

[Delpanther]

Then you should be blaming the fan base and alumni. If there is a demand, then they will have the $upply.

Fans probably waiting on Pitt to select a set of colors..... you know ...colors and logos that don’t change every other year.

 

[Mikefln]

Then you should be blaming the fan base and alumni. If there is a demand, then they will have the $upply.

That is my point. There is not a fan base. Pitt never did the things necessary to build one. To be that close to campus within the state, at worse when it came to college gear Pitt should have been number 2, not number 4. Plus if they were in the 2 slot, it should have been a close 2nd not a distance like there appears to be. I used to work in Cincy/Dayton.Columbus a lot, and even on the outskirts of Cincy in the Dayton area, OSU did not clobber Cincy is gear the way I saw this weekend. Plus Cincy is a G5 team and they were number 2 not 4. Pitt has to figure out a way to build a fan base.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Fans probably waiting on Pitt to select a set of colors..... you know ...colors and logos that don’t change every other year.

How many people attend a PS game, OS game, ND game, and a Pitt game? This isn’t rocket science.

 

[Delpanther]

How many people show up at a PS game, OS game, ND game, and a Pitt game? This isn’t rocket science.

A number commensurate with the degree of emphasis and support those schools accorded their FB programs

 

[DiehardPanther]

A number commensurate with the degree of emphasis and support those schools accorded their FB programs

There is always an excuse as to why Pitt alums do not attend or support their program.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

I hope Heather reads this and acts upon that. Same with Gallagher.

Just don’t understand why. It’s gotten better over the years. Not too long ago, you wanted a pitt tee shirt, you had to drive into Oakland. It’s not that bad anymore but still not good.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

You should have asked for a Pitt magnet instead of a peanut butter egg. I was there (Kraynaks) maybe 10 or 12 years ago and also remember steelers,browns and penn st, ohio st junk. Daffins was always in ohio I think.

 

[infinitehighway42]

We all know what has to happen to rope in more yinzer fans: bring back Starter jackets. Make them the brightest blue and yellow you can, so bright you burn your retinas looking at it. You'll see 'em all over the place.

 

[GreatBear71]

Speaking of marketing, why does Pitt not send deeply discounted tickets to ALLegheny County high schools, in areas of Heinz that are usually empty? Selected schools in Westmoreland County.. Discuss

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

We all know what has to happen to rope in more yinzer fans: bring back Starter jackets. Make them the brightest blue and yellow you can, so bright you burn your retinas looking at it. You'll see 'em all over the place.

I’ve seen a guy in mt Lebanon not too long ago wearing a pitt starter jacket (90s style). It was something else.

 

[Mikefln]

You should have asked for a Pitt magnet instead of a peanut butter egg. I was there (Kraynaks) maybe 10 or 12 years ago and also remember steelers,browns and penn st, ohio st junk. Daffins was always in ohio I think.

Again, these are not sports stores. I did not go their to buy Pitt merchandise. Daffins is a chocolate/Candy store that sells other stuff (cards, statues, etc) with a small section being sports related. Kraynaks is a variety store with a big toy section, garden center, arts/crafts, hobby, and a small sports section.

My thesis is not doom and gloom on Pitt because 2 mom and pop stores carry little Pitt merchandise. My thesis is doom and gloom because in a place (1.5 hours from campus within state boarder)that a P5 school should be team number 1 in optimal conditions (no other P5 schools close by), Pitt was in 4th place. Seriously 4th place. USC and UCLA share their market but it is a huge market. BC owns their college market as does Miami. Those are all still optimal condidtions

There are schools in tough conditions like Wash St, Iowa St, Mich St and the North Carolina schools that are all right up on top of each other. But at least they are number 2 in the area not 4 (while in NC someone has to be 4 there but that many schools right on top of each other of course it has to be that way). The only P5 school that might be in worse shape than Pitt is Northwestern as my understanding is that when it comes to college athletics in Chicago, Notre Dame rules there.

 

[Mikefln]

I’ve seen a guy in mt Lebanon not too long ago wearing a pitt starter jacket (90s style). It was something else.

I remember the one I had back then. Damn i loved that coat and always wore it only to always be made fun of because Pitt sucked in both sports back then.

 

[DiehardPanther]

Again, these are not sports stores. I did not go their to buy Pitt merchandise. Daffins is a chocolate/Candy store that sells other stuff (cards, statues, etc) with a small section being sports related. Kraynaks is a variety store with a big toy section, garden center, arts/crafts, hobby, and a small sports section.

My thesis is not doom and gloom on Pitt because 2 mom and pop stores carry little Pitt merchandise. My thesis is doom and gloom because in a place (1.5 hours from campus within state boarder)that a P5 school should be team number 1 in optimal conditions (no other P5 schools close by), Pitt was in 4th place. Seriously 4th place. USC and UCLA share their market but it is a huge market. BC owns their college market as does Miami. Those are all still optimal condidtions

There are schools in tough conditions like Wash St, Iowa St, Mich St and the North Carolina schools that are all right up on top of each other. But at least they are number 2 in the area not 4 (while in NC someone has to be 4 there but that many schools right on top of each other of course it has to be that way). The only P5 school that might be in worse shape than Pitt is Northwestern as my understanding is that when it comes to college athletics in Chicago, Notre Dame rules there.

BC does not own their market.

 

[Mikefln]

BC does not own their market.

I was only in Boston 1 time in 1999, and it appeared they owned the market back then. That is also a different market then most, with Harvard and MIT, but i would still say BC had the most gear at the stores I saw.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

We also need to stop this thinking about Western PA being our base to pull fans from. It is not. I went to Sharon PA this weekend to go to Daffins and Kraynaks like I do every Easter season for the past 10 years. Sharon PA is roughly 1 hour 30 minutes from Pitt campus. At both stores not only did Penn State have way more merchandise for sale than Pitt, but so did Ohio St and Notre Dame at both stores. Literally 1 shelf had Pitt stuff at Kraynaks and nothing at all at Daffins. Compared to Shelf after shelf of PSU gear, and multiple shelves of OSU and ND gear.

What other P5 program struggles that bad within its own state borders that close to campus?

You can say WVU, struggles closer to it campus but your in PA at that point. Plus they have the rest of the state outside of a small area that belongs to Marshall. In fact i would argue that Marshall does better in their territory than Pitt does in theirs.

Mich and Mich State compete for the same turf, but Mich State is still well represented in all places and are clearly number 2.

BC, Miami, Washington, USC/UCLA All Urban schools, they may compete with pro sports but they control their own market as far as college sports go. Yes USC/UCLA is a little different but the point remains.

Seriously can anyone think of another P5 program that struggles with a fan base that close to campus within the state they reside? This is not just Sharon/Mercer Co which is close to Ohio, this is also Fayette Co, Johnstown, Altoona, Erie. The fact of the matter is that Pitt is not a popular brand outside of Allegheny County.

Ga Tech.

 

[HailtoPitt]

Part of the problem is that Pitt is Pittsburgh, whereas Penn State is all of PA. However, Pitt has screwed itself over so many times with stupid decision after stupid decision. Hopefully this Sunday isn't another example.

But, no matter how much Pitt wins, it's still in Pittsburgh and contains the name, which makes it difficult to market to the rest of the state.

My solution. Pennsylvania Tech and Med.... shortened to Penn Tech!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Then you should be blaming the fan base and alumni. If there is a demand, then they will have the $upply.

No, let's lay the blame where it definitely should lay. We haven't finished a season ranked in the top 10 since 1982. We have only finished in the top 25 what, 4-5 times since then? The U doesn't struggle with merchandise sales, despite being a much smaller school, because they built a juggernaut.
Since Sherrill left, Pitt has half assed it in football. That is what, 38 year ago now? Think about that. If it was 1998, 38 years prior was 1960. In our glory years, 38 years before that was WWII. We have spent a decades on mediocrity and fans left or next generations were never cultivated.

That is not on these stores, that is not the fans or alumni, that is on Pitt.

 

[Mikefln]

Ga Tech.

Forgot all about them. Not an expert in the market but is there anywhere in the state they would be number 3 and let a lone number 4?

 

[pittdan77]

So you're saying winning 9-10 wins per year might be better for your marketing efforts?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Forgot all about them. Not an expert in the market but is there anywhere in the state they would be number 3 and let a lone number 4?

Yeah, definitely. Clemson is not far from Atlanta. Auburn is almost on the Southwestern Ga border. Florida and Florida State along the southern border. Tennessee is not far from NW border.

 

[Mikefln]

Yeah, definitely. Clemson is not far from Atlanta. Auburn is almost on the Southwestern Ga border. Florida and Florida State along the southern border. Tennessee is not far from NW border.

Ok I was proven wrong. Still doesn't change that Pitt is in a bad spot as far as image/brand in regards to sports.

 

[Delpanther]

There is always an excuse as to why Pitt alums do not attend or support their program.

This isn’t an excuse. This is fact.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Ok I was proven wrong. Still doesn't change that Pitt is in a bad spot as far as image/brand in regards to sports.

No, you are absolutely correct. We have a really tough situation and the only other team in the same situation as us is Ga Tech. Or at least, most like our situation. I agree with your comments, just GT has the same issues. But...Atlanta is also a much bigger market also.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

So you're saying winning 9-10 wins per year might be better for your marketing efforts?

A little bit.

 

[pittdan77]

A little bit.

Thanks. Seems obvious but we keep missing on the simple stuff.

 

[HOF Coach]

1. Penn State has had a branch campus in Sharon, PA. since 1965. Therefore, a larger than normal number of Penn State alumni live in the area and that far exceeds any other university.

2. The Roman Catholic population in the Sharon area (Shenango Valley) historically has neared 45+% of total population. Therefore, Notre Dame is the traditional favorite in these Catholic households and has been for many, many decades.

3. Drive 1.2 miles west of the Daffins' parking lot and you are now in Ohio. Once you cross that state line, almost every fan there wears Ohio State gear (even if they graduated from the many smaller colleges in Ohio). Ohio State is even bigger than the Browns and the Bengals in terms of popularity. Their love of the Buckeyes has united families for generations (similarly as the love for the Steelers has done for decades in many families in the region, including nearby northern W Va and southeastern Ohio).

These are the three main factors why you see more team gear for PSU, Notre Dame and Ohio State.

Expecting any school (including Pitt) to overcome the longstanding, demographic advantages of these three universities is unrealistic.

 

[pittdan77]

2. The Roman Catholic population in the Sharon area (Shenango Valley) historically has neared 45+% of total population. Therefore, Notre Dame is the traditional favorite in these Catholic households and has been for many, many decades.

Is this really a thing? Like, do Catholics root for ND because they're catholic? It's not like that's the only catholic school. I don't think most Methodists root for SMU and I don't know any Baptists that root for Baylor.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Is this really a thing? Like, do Catholics root for ND because they're catholic? It's not like that's the only catholic school. I don't think most Methodists root for SMU and I don't know any Baptists that root for Baylor.

As a Catholic who grew up in a heavily Catholic area (like most of us) it used to be much more of a factor. Right now, Catholicism isn't all the rage, and ND isn't the name and golden program it used to be.

HOF's comments about PSU, tOSU though are noted. Didn't someone do a survey of the 5 biggest name brands of college football and tOSU was #1, PSU and ND was in the top 5.

We hate PSU, we are jealous of them (without being able to admit it) and as much as we rag on them for being "has beens" they won 9 games last year, and the previous two won 11 games, BCS bowls and finished in the top 10. We haven't had a season like that in......THIRTY EIGHT YEARS!!!!!!

So yeah, they are still relevant.

 

[pittdan77]

As a Catholic who grew up in a heavily Catholic area (like most of us) it used to be much more of a factor. Right now, Catholicism isn't all the rage, and ND isn't the name and golden program it used to be.

HOF's comments about PSU, tOSU though are noted. Didn't someone do a survey of the 5 biggest name brands of college football and tOSU was #1, PSU and ND was in the top 5.

We hate PSU, we are jealous of them (without being able to admit it) and as much as we rag on them for being "has beens" they won 9 games last year, and the previous two won 11 games, BCS bowls and finished in the top 10. We haven't had a season like that in......THIRTY EIGHT YEARS!!!!!!

So yeah, they are still relevant.

I don't dispute the PSU and OSU factor. I know there are a ton of ND fans in PGH. I guess my thought was that it was easier for people to jump on a bandwagon than to deal with the frustrations of being a Pitt fan. Like I said, winning is the only legitimate thing that grows the program.

 

[Mikefln]

1. Penn State has had a branch campus in Sharon, PA. since 1965. Therefore, a larger than normal number of Penn State alumni live in the area and that far exceeds any other university.

I will give you Greensburg, but does Pitt have more fans in Johnstown, Bradford, and Titusville? Why does it not hold true for Pitt in those towns? Penn St is clearly number 1

2. The Roman Catholic population in the Sharon area (Shenango Valley) historically has neared 45+% of total population. Therefore, Notre Dame is the traditional favorite in these Catholic households and has been for many, many decades

I am Catholic (and went to Catholic school from K-12 1 year are Robert Morris then finished at a Catholic College) as is most of my family and none of us are Notre Dame fans.

3. Drive 1.2 miles west of the Daffins' parking lot and you are now in Ohio. Once you cross that state line, almost every fan there wears Ohio State gear (even if they graduated from the many smaller colleges in Ohio). Ohio State is even bigger than the Browns and the Bengals in terms of popularity. Their love of the Buckeyes has united families for generations (similarly as the love for the Steelers has done for decades in many families in the region, including nearby northern W Va and southeastern Ohio).

I will give you that. As a person who worked a ton in Columbus/Dayton/Cincy and all the smaller towns in between I know all too well. I will say this, walking in shops and seeing people out and about. Cincy had a bigger footprint on SW Ohio than Pitt does in WPA. Outside of Allegheny, Beaver and Westmorland, it becomes PSU country real quick and in lopsided ratios. Pitt has no traction in Butler, Washington, Green, Lawrence, Armtrong Countries let alone the other ones further away. It is really bad.

 

[Mikefln]

Is this really a thing? Like, do Catholics root for ND because they're catholic? It's not like that's the only catholic school. I don't think most Methodists root for SMU and I don't know any Baptists that root for Baylor.

For many yes. I am Catholic and went to Catholic schools my whole life and I was never a ND fan nor any family member. yet a lot of friends were and yes it is a thing.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

For many yes. I am Catholic and went to Catholic schools my whole life and I was never a ND fan nor any family member. yet a lot of friends were and yes it is a thing.

seems like such an outdated mindset to me.. like something you'd see in the movie Rudy, circa early 70's. Catholic grandfather and dad spending all week at the mill, turning on the black and white TV and watching the irish play on Saturdays, rooting for them because of their proud irish heritage and how they are viewed as second class citizens in this country. staying true to the blue collar roots..

Great story and all but about 45 years past relevancy..

 

[burnie1105]

I will give you Greensburg, but does Pitt have more fans in Johnstown, Bradford, and Titusville? Why does it not hold true for Pitt in those towns? Penn St is clearly number 1

For better or for worse, the way Pitt and Penn State talk about their branch campuses is very different. Case in point, PSU's current strategic plan is called 'One Penn State'. So I can totally understand why a Pitt-Johnstown or Pitt-Bradford alum feels no affinity for the greater university.