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"Players lose; Luther loses most"

Johnny07

Prep
Oct 4, 2017
27
16
3
There are a few players that stand to lose a lot by the firing of Stallings. First and foremost is Luther. Luther is a Pittsburgher. It's a crap shoot that if he decided to stay, he would get the same roll out the red carpet treatment that he got under Stallings. Also, with his injury and the familiarity that the current staff has with it, he would lose that to a different trainer if a new coach brings in his own. That's the skinny of it.

More to the semantics; Luther has been very comfortable, almost too comfortable in his environment. There's something to say good for a home towner that stays to play in his hometown but there's something to say for the overstating of his performance because he's one of our own. How does that play into the perception amongst his teammates? Preferable treatment from coaches, comfortable that he is close to his support system should he get injured, able to have his mom bring him a home cooked meal or soup when he's sick, his minimal bonding with teammates because during his off time he goes out with his local friends instead of his teammates, etc?..., all play into an opinion with his teammates. I've heard a lot of this from my daughter and her group of friends.

IMO players didn't seem to treat him like he was the "best" player during game time. Of course they knew that when they were interviewed they had to refer to Luther as their "best" player. To be in the good graces of the coaches, it was almost a necessity that teammates overstate Luthers absence. Instead of players being able to (especially freshmen) form their own opinions, I can see manipulation. Suppress your feelings of how good you think he really is.

Possibly the coaches felt the pressure from the local media, the community and the presence of local support (whether donors, season ticket holders or just friends of the Luther family) and conveniently attached their wagon to him. Would a new coach come in and say since he is the local boy, the most senior player, the mainstay, we need to build the new team around him? Most likely not! So the writing would be on the wall that he would have to transfer out.

So when I look at his statement and his taking a shot at the AD, I see that very comfortable player. Comfort created by the coaching staff and circumstances on one hand and comfort created by his own decisions on the other. Understandably he's mad but as someone who has had the luxury of having to face little to no adversity (comparably) it's time for him to "man up" and see the failure of his coaches. I suspect It would be good for his growth and maturity as a 22 or 23 year old youngman.

All considered, one could say that his out spoken statement might be more self serving than anything.

IMO I have a very hard time thinking that he spoke for every single player on that team like he starts out by saying.
 
If he elects to stay he will be the best returning player on the team by far. I’m pretty sure any new coaching staff will welcome him with open arms.
 
He's a kid and kids say things sometimes that aren't exactly the right thing at the right time.
 
Luther would not be our best returning player. Stewart, Ellison and even Brown are better.
 
It's hard to pick between any of the players as to who's the best. None of them are real starters on a good team.
 
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I am not sure I understand the OP , but by all accounts from the outside Luther and the players on the team appear to be a bunch of good kids. The kind of players that actually feel they let the team down when they lose even if they played well. The kind of players that take it to heart when they are told it is important for you to go to class and do well, as it reflects on us as a team. So when the coach is fired you feel as a player or group of players that you let him down, IMHO.
 
I’d be thrilled if Ryan came back and didn’t get a lot of playing time

(No offense to him, but it would mean there was a huge talent upgrade)

In reality probably no worries....he would easily be one of the starting five
 
Why are we beating up on Luther, he is only speaking what he believes, he has no obligation to be a shill for the Adminstration’s decisions. You are also wrong about his abilties. We should be supporting these kids right now not pushing them out the door.
 
Luther would not be our best returning player. Stewart, Ellison and even Brown are better.
Lolwat? Brown was bad this season. He had 4 above average games. He was awful in almost every other game.

He averaged 4 and 3 in 17 minutes.
 
Luther can come out and say what he wants. He's the one guy who stuck it through with stallings I'm not surprised he has that opinion.

I don't really think what he said was all that bad anyways. Just his opinion which was that he was disappointed.

After reading it I think it's 50/50 if he's back next year. It will be hard for him to get a look on a solid contender with back to back foot injuries ending his seasons. But considering the current state of the roster I'd gladly have him one more year.
 
I am not sure I agree at all with the OP and the inferences read about Luther. Many on this board wanted (or assumed) Luther would transfer last spring and that he had a poor relationship with Coach Stallings...I think many wanted to hear he disliked him especially after a hot mic caught Stallings coaching Luther hard during a game last season. So...to see Luther come out in support of the coach and staff probably surprised people and was not their perception. With the reaction of some of the other players that people seem to be indicating...it looks like Luther's opinion speaks for many of the players.

It is kind of the same that people wanted Sheldon Jeter to dislike Stallings for how his exit from Vandy was handled...and, I too thought that was going to be an issue. However, it was obvious not the case and Jeter's public twitter message definitely showed strong support for Stallings after the news.

I really hope Luther stays. He would be the best player on the team next year in all liklihood. Sure, some might have more potential or show more flashes...but, a player like Luther that can play the 4 or the 5, be a consistent presence on the boards and provide some offense would be a tremendously stabilizing force for a team that will likely be very young again. I think Ellison can provide some of that too and likely force JW-F to a bench role of instant offense. One would expect Carr and Stewart to be more consistent and comfortable next year, if they both are convinced to return, and Brown should be able to take a step forward and Stevenson also show improvement in a year with his experience.

Hopefully the new coach does not have to completely start over in the next season or two. There are building blocks here and to get more depth and talent coming in from behind them it can turn around pretty quickly...having some upperclassmen contributors...whether or not they get passed up in the future by higher profile recruits or not is important to add some stability and consistency.

Will be an interesting spring for sure...
 
My concern about Luther is the back to back season ending injuries to the same foot. Many assume that if he stays at Pitt he'll be good but his track record so far hasn't proven that out. I like Luther and agree if healthy he's the best returning player but part thinks that if he does transfer somewhere else it's not the end of the world.
 
Luther is probably a good 8th man on any top ACC team, but Pitt sucks so bad, he really is the best player on this particular roster, who's better?
 
I'm really trying to figure out where the Ellison hype comes from. Is it from guys like Dokish and Alan Saunders, who for the past two years have been handling PR for the Stallings regime essentially just regurgitating info that Dan Cage gives them? Nothing in his career at St. John's indicates he is an ACC starter, or any good at all really. Hyping up a mediocre player/recruit based on not much reliable info is peak Dokish, so I'm guessing he has something to do with this.
 
I'm really trying to figure out where the Ellison hype comes from. Is it from guys like Dokish and Alan Saunders, who for the past two years have been handling PR for the Stallings regime essentially just regurgitating info that Dan Cage gives them? Nothing in his career at St. John's indicates he is an ACC starter, or any good at all really. Hyping up a mediocre player/recruit based on not much reliable info is peak Dokish, so I'm guessing he has something to do with this.

So funny. Sometimes when i've read things from them over the last couple of years i thought that KS must being paying them! I also liked the reports that came out saying that Ellison was the best player in practice. Really? He's practicing against a team that went winless in the conference. I hope he works out and i think at worst he's a decent rotation guy but I don't understand this belief that's he's an instant above average ACC starter?
 
Luther is probably a good 8th man on any top ACC team, but Pitt sucks so bad, he really is the best player on this particular roster, who's better?
Right now no one ! He was sorely missed this season .
 
Luther is probably a good 8th man on any top ACC team, but Pitt sucks so bad, he really is the best player on this particular roster, who's better?
Probably more like #2 big, but that is probably a 6th or 7th man for most teams in this era. With his injury history it seems unlikely he makes it through next year, whether at Pitt or somewhere else.
 
I am not sure I agree at all with the OP and the inferences read about Luther. Many on this board wanted (or assumed) Luther would transfer last spring and that he had a poor relationship with Coach Stallings...I think many wanted to hear he disliked him especially after a hot mic caught Stallings coaching Luther hard during a game last season. So...to see Luther come out in support of the coach and staff probably surprised people and was not their perception. With the reaction of some of the other players that people seem to be indicating...it looks like Luther's opinion speaks for many of the players.

It is kind of the same that people wanted Sheldon Jeter to dislike Stallings for how his exit from Vandy was handled...and, I too thought that was going to be an issue. However, it was obvious not the case and Jeter's public twitter message definitely showed strong support for Stallings after the news.

I really hope Luther stays. He would be the best player on the team next year in all liklihood. Sure, some might have more potential or show more flashes...but, a player like Luther that can play the 4 or the 5, be a consistent presence on the boards and provide some offense would be a tremendously stabilizing force for a team that will likely be very young again. I think Ellison can provide some of that too and likely force JW-F to a bench role of instant offense. One would expect Carr and Stewart to be more consistent and comfortable next year, if they both are convinced to return, and Brown should be able to take a step forward and Stevenson also show improvement in a year with his experience.

Hopefully the new coach does not have to completely start over in the next season or two. There are building blocks here and to get more depth and talent coming in from behind them it can turn around pretty quickly...having some upperclassmen contributors...whether or not they get passed up in the future by higher profile recruits or not is important to add some stability and consistency.

Will be an interesting spring for sure...
Good post B_Man, agree with all of it. I think the turnovers can go down with the natural progression of all the Fr, hopefully some offense from Ellison and better rebounding can reduce the long scoring droughts. A healthy Luther would help the rebounding, so would a big step up from Brown.
 
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I'm really trying to figure out where the Ellison hype comes from. Is it from guys like Dokish and Alan Saunders, who for the past two years have been handling PR for the Stallings regime essentially just regurgitating info that Dan Cage gives them? Nothing in his career at St. John's indicates he is an ACC starter, or any good at all really. Hyping up a mediocre player/recruit based on not much reliable info is peak Dokish, so I'm guessing he has something to do with this.
Regrettably, I share much of the same view about Ellison. I think he's a helpful piece, but not a difference maker.
 
Probably more like #2 big, but that is probably a 6th or 7th man for most teams in this era. With his injury history it seems unlikely he makes it through next year, whether at Pitt or somewhere else.
Who's the #1?
 
Regrettably, I share much of the same view about Ellison. I think he's a helpful piece, but not a difference maker.
His numbers at St. Johns suggest he has some ability. On THIS roster, maybe he would have been a starter. But on an NCAA tournament team, is he any better than the 7th or 8th guy?
 
At this point in time who knows what the roster will look like next year . Will the next coach have any recruits in his pocket , will he decide to transition with grad transfers and jucos , will he go with a total rebuild , look for transfers ? I’m personally hoping Luther stays and can be healthy and that Ellison’s game improved during his yr off . Also I’m hoping that the core freshman stay , the next coach doesn’t want to find 11 new players again !
 
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Ellison played with two guards that dominated the ball at St. John's. He had solid advance stats that show he was due for a significant increase with more usage, however, it is true...he does project more as a serviceable player on a higher end ACC team, but could be a solid player on a mid-pack team which would have been a nice progression for this Pitt group if they stayed together with a couple contributory pieces added. Unfortunately for Stallings with the climate around him, he would be unable to add any serviceable pieces with potential because nobody was going to believe he would last any longer...

My hope for a new coach is that they can keep Golden committed...then keep Carr, Stewart, Davis and Brown as your sophomore class. Ellison is your junior and add a JUCO big that can provide defense/rebounding, keep JW-F with Luther and add a serviceable PG as a grad transfer for your seniors. Then add a high impact transfer, one that likely has to sit out a season...and a late freshmen signing or two that are of quality. That leaves three ships for your '19 class with the transfer becoming eligible...and, you are starting to rebuild depth and talent...that, to me is ideal. I think a guy like Hurley with the staff he would bring can do that pretty well...and, I am sure some others...again...going to be an interesting month ahead with staff and roster changes.
 
Yeah Luther may be no better than a #2 big on a good ACC team and Ellison no better than a #8 or #9 on a good ACC team. But what are we trying to achieve with them in the next 1-2 years. I don’t think anyone’s thinking they’ll skyrocket us into the top third of the ACC. But, although we were 0-19, how large of an improvement does it take to put us into the middle pack of the ACC neighborhood?

I think we need to reduce turnovers and long scoring droughts and improve rebounding at both ends of the court. If we still have our core group of freshman (big if), they will show some natural improvement next year. A healthy Luther will help the rebounding some, hopefully Ellison can help reduce the long scoring droughts. Throw in a new coaching style and hopefully a coach that can bring in a couple guys that can help right away, particularly with the rebounding, maybe there’s enough improvement to have you competing in the middle of the ACC pack.

Anything higher than that will definitely be further down the road and require the larger uptick in talent.
 
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Ellison played with two guards that dominated the ball at St. John's. He had solid advance stats that show he was due for a significant increase with more usage, however, it is true...he does project more as a serviceable player on a higher end ACC team, but could be a solid player on a mid-pack team which would have been a nice progression for this Pitt group if they stayed together with a couple contributory pieces added. Unfortunately for Stallings with the climate around him, he would be unable to add any serviceable pieces with potential because nobody was going to believe he would last any longer...

My hope for a new coach is that they can keep Golden committed...then keep Carr, Stewart, Davis and Brown as your sophomore class. Ellison is your junior and add a JUCO big that can provide defense/rebounding, keep JW-F with Luther and add a serviceable PG as a grad transfer for your seniors. Then add a high impact transfer, one that likely has to sit out a season...and a late freshmen signing or two that are of quality. That leaves three ships for your '19 class with the transfer becoming eligible...and, you are starting to rebuild depth and talent...that, to me is ideal. I think a guy like Hurley with the staff he would bring can do that pretty well...and, I am sure some others...again...going to be an interesting month ahead with staff and roster changes.
Excellent post as always.
 
You're right, if he returns, Luther will be our best player which speaks volumes about this team.

Cruzer
he's the only guy on our roster that can play any sort of post defense. we need him. honestly, I cant imagine him having too many options at the D1 level other than pitt.

99% of the time, players stand up for their departing coach. no matter how bad they are, players will defend their coach, that's how it is, how it always is and will be. that's why you really don't put much value in their opinion come search time. they cant look at it objectively.
 
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