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POLL : Pitt Wrestling .......

OK, how much are you willing to donate to Pitt wrestling for next season ?

  • $100

    Votes: 11 32.4%
  • $250

    Votes: 6 17.6%
  • $500

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • $1,000

    Votes: 2 5.9%
  • $2,000

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • $5,000

    Votes: 2 5.9%
  • >$5,000

    Votes: 2 5.9%
  • >$10,000

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • >$25,000

    Votes: 5 14.7%

  • Total voters
    34
I had previously joined Nish in pledging a modest $1K over 5 years (or $200 a year for the next five years) OVER whatever annual general athletic and university giving that I would otherwise make. Thus it is new money to athletics and the university, not a shift in giving, and my overall annual donation level to the university will go up from the floor that it is at currently. I am good for that pledge and it is made as a vote of support to Coach Gavin and the program.

This would be my first specific donation to wrestling and it will go to whatever wrestling fund or priority area for wrestling that Nish determines and gets set up in concert with the athletic department. I am not opposed to upping this donation in the future if I feel it is appropriate.
 
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I had previously joined Nish in pledging a modest $1K over 5 years (or $200 a year for the next five years) OVER whatever annual general athletic and university giving that I would otherwise make. Thus it is new money to athletics and the university, not a shift in giving, and my overall annual donation level to the university will go up from the floor that it is at currently. I am good for that pledge and it is made as a vote of support to Coach Gavin and the program.

This would be my first specific donation to wrestling and it will go to whatever wrestling fund or priority area for wrestling that Nish determines and gets set up in concert with the athletic department. I am not opposed to upping this donation in the future if I feel it is appropriate.

I'm just trying to get an idea how much posters on this board are planning/willing to donate specifically to wrestling for next year ...... maybe you could click on the $250 (for next year) in the poll ..... it will be easier to tabulate the total if everyone votes in the poll ..... thanks.
 
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I'm just trying to get an idea how much posters on this board are planning/willing to donate specifically to wrestling for next year ...... maybe you could click on the $250 (for next year) in the poll ..... it will be easier to tabulate the total if everyone votes in the poll ..... thanks.

Ok, done. I only posted, as Nish did in another thread, to encourage others that both large (his) and small (mine) gifts alike can help. Others pledged to give along with Nish prior to hiring process becoming controversial. Nish recently announced his continued faith in the current leadership and the direction of this program and his intent to honor his pledge, and I followed with my statement that my pledge would follow his.
 
I hope that individuals will consider the Pittsburgh wrestling club
The PWC is the avenue that through the club operations supports the regional training center, the club coach( which is the volunteer assistant) and the future athletes in the RTC
Agree
 
I wanted the Undertaker hired as coach, so I'm withdrawing all donations to the wrestling program.

tenor.gif
 
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This is long but I didn't know where else to post it. Feel free to paste it where I hope it does some good - .


I am stating at the outset, as it pertains to Pitt Wrestling (PW), if The University of Pittsburgh Athletic Department (UPAD) is content with the return of investment over the last four or five decades, there is no need to read any further. No change in the program is necessary.

If wrestling fans in Pennsylvania are to believe the UPAD's stated goals about ACC and NCAA championships, I believe, the ideas I am going to express, give Keith Gavin the best chance to be successful at Pitt.

While staying positive is a necessary component to success, an honest and accurate self-assessment, and then, a plan that clearly defines goals and milestones, is more important. It is in this light, I share my observations and thoughts.

Many Pitt Wrestling fans have expressed the sentiment, "it's now time to show your dedication to Pitt wrestling by donating money". I have two critiques of this line of thinking. First, I believe throwing good money that enables bad leadership, will not bring success. As it stands now, donating to the UPAD, to benefit the wrestling team, is simply enabling the UPAD's neglect of PW.

If the UPAD honestly want ACC and national champions as they have stated, and if Pitt wrestling fans and Pennsylvania wrestling fans in general, want to see PW live up to what PW is capable of, they need to hold the administration accountable.

PW fans should expect facts and details about the athletic departments commitment to success BEFOR donating money. Has anyone heard anything but "coach speak" from the UPAD? Has anyone heard a single concreate dollar value for scholarships, assistant coaching salaries, or facility renovations? Does anyone in the administration demonstrated they have any idea what kind of budget the other top 10 or top 20 schools have and/or how its itemized? Does anyone in the administration understand how successful programs are organized in order to attract talented recruits or a championship caliber practice room?

I completely agree with Keith Gavin’s statements that wrestlers are different from other athletes - that you can roll out a mat in a back yard and wrestlers will show up if there are people there to make them a champion, but has anyone seen a blueprint or 3D elevations for the new facilities? Has anyone seen a definite time line for when construction begins? Who took the bids for this project? What wrestling interest was consulted to establish the needs and ideal specifications as they pertain to the wrestling team?

Listening to Keith Gavin’s and the new AD's comments in the few podcast I have listened to, everything I have heard are superficial generalities - just abstract words. Granted Heather Lyke is new on the job, but there are no specifics, no definitions. There is no there, there. Yet, we are supposed to donate money for... what.... passion, dedication, excitement??

Many of you are business people. Would you personally invest, or allocate your companies money to someone that has no definitive plan as to how they are going to spend those funds? What would you say to a department manager that requested more funding without a proforma, budget, or stating expected returns on the investment, to justify the request? If UPAD has these details, they better start speaking to the public because as it pertains to support of PW, history has not earned them any credibility.

Which leads to my second point of concern pertaining to donating to PW. Historically, the athletic departments fund raising has always force donations into the general fund so they can fully fund basketball and football. Only after football and men and women’s basketball is funded, will the UPAD turn their attention to what historically were referred to as the non-revenue programs. Yea, they changed the name to Olympic sports because “non-revenue” was well… just too honest a representation to how the university views those other athletes.

In fact, the administration has always undermined attempts at any non-revenue team trying to generate financial support on their own. The administration understands every other non-revenue team will branch off and, in the UPAD's view, siphon off money from the athletic departments agenda. In the past, non-revenue sports have simply not been a priority and this is reflected in the athletic departments policy to donation earmarks.
Even in the event one earmark's a thousand dollar donation to Pitt wrestling, there is nothing preventing the administration from rerouting a thousand dollars from the budgeted funds already allocated to wrestling, such that it has no net benefit to the wrestling team.

Finally, UPAD has had a very well established behavior pattern towards hiring coaches in their "non-revenue sports". They hire talented, very nice people that love coaching, but are also not going to make demands. In essence, UPAD’s commitment has been to roll out a ball or wrestling mat so these dedicated coaches and their athletes can passionately work their assess off. If a particularly talented athlete creates success, the sports information department writes a nice story to promote the success. If they lose... oh-well, better luck next year - but don’t dare ask for more. If you stay quiet, you will have a long career at Pitt.

Now, consider the fact that 50 of the 330 qualifiers for the 2017 NCAA tournament are from Pennsylvania, 40% of this years champions are from Pennsylvania, and 20% are from Pittsburgh. Between 1961 and 2011, Pennsylvania was home for 550 NCAA All-Americans. Iowa and next door, Ohio are in second and third place with 330 and 313 respectively. The numbers drop of precipitously after that. I am arguing that NOT having a continuously nationally relevant wrestling program, at a world class academic institution, full of down to earth quality people, located in western Pennsylvania, can only be the result of neglect.

Recently, three well-seasoned, knowledgeable head coaches, who have already built nationally ranked programs, came to Pittsburgh to interview for the PW program. All three know what kind of organization it takes to be nationally relevant. All three have athletic directors and administrations that very strongly back their respective wrestling programs financially and more importantly, emotionally. All three came to Pittsburgh despite their current success, because they realize the potential that exist at Pitt. I suspect it took these three professional organizational leaders, fifteen minutes to realize there was a lot of smoke being blown at them and they quickly left The City of Pittsburgh to returned to Bethlehem, Erie, and Brookings, South Dakota. I also suspect TeShan Cambell figured it out too.

Wrestlers by nature are going to be passionate, hardworking, goal oriented people. It would be hard to find a wrestling coach that does not have these qualities. In fact, Forbes.com published an article in 2012 highlighting these qualities while identifying why wrestlers make the best employees. What Pitt wrestling needs however, are well-defined goals, an organizational plan, and then, the financial means to make that plan a reality. The passionate, hardworking, goal oriented wrestling fans of Pennsylvania will proudly support a championship level PITT Wrestling program. The Pitt Athletic Administration needs make a real commitment or get out of the way and let wrestlers do, what wrestler do.

(by the way, I personally don't think there is anything wrong with the practice space that creativity and a good interior designer couldn't fix - but if a little paint is all that UPAD is going to do - then quit BS'n about a new facility and say so. Then, let wrestling alumni take on the project!)
 
Appreciate the long post. I'm trying to do all I can to hold the athletic department accountable and get the specifics in their short and long-term plans. Coach Gavin is getting a walk-through today on the specifics of the short-term renovations and his input will be accepted to alter it as he sees fit. Once I get the specifics I'll share them here. I'm not about to pledge money for the next 5 years and not know exactly what it's being spent on. I also need to be convinced that the shared goals of all involved are to get us back to a top 10, top 5 program.
 
Keith's degree is in philosophy. Bet he didn't have any marketing, architecture, or design classes in the philosophy department.

Or is UPAD just going to tell the non-revenue coach how it is going to be - again?
 
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Keith's degree is in philosophy. Bet he didn't have any marketing, architecture, or design classes in the philosophy department.

Or is UPAD just going to tell the non-revenue coach how it is going to be - again?

How many head coaches in any sport or at any school have degrees in marketing or architecture? What is your point?
 
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That’s my point exactly. Perhaps my sarcasm didn’t translate well into text. My comments are not a swipe at Keith. I'm trying to make suggestions so people can help him.

We get wrapped up in our enthusiasm, optimism, and work ethic and forget about history and reality. My comments are made to help Keith by focusing on the concreate details.

As it pertains to the remodeling topic…my response is with the sentiments, I am concerned that the Pitt AD department is going to treat Pitt Wrestling like it’s a JV team again. If one wants a professional result, hire first class professionals and let them compete for the job. Maybe a dedicated facility isn’t necessary ( or possible - see Lehigh, Michigan, PSU, and Cornel facilities linked in the other thread) but get some knowledgeable people together and throw out some ideas that are at least going to look like your trying to compete with who Pitt needs to recruit against.
 
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That’s my point exactly. Perhaps my sarcasm didn’t translate well into text. My comments are not a swipe at Keith. I'm trying to make suggestions so people can help him.

We get wrapped up in our enthusiasm, optimism, and work ethic and forget about history and reality. My comments are made to help Keith by focusing on the concreate details.

As it pertains to the remodeling topic…my response is with the sentiments, I am concerned that the Pitt AD department is going to treat Pitt Wrestling like it’s a JV team again. If one wants a professional result, hire first class professionals and let them compete for the job. Maybe a dedicated facility isn’t necessary ( or possible - see Lehigh, Michigan, PSU, and Cornel facilities linked in the other thread) but get some knowledgeable people together and throw out some ideas that are at least going to look like your trying to compete with who Pitt needs to recruit against.

Maybe you give your comments to Keith then. Here's the reality: Pitt has been one of the poorest athletic departments in the country among major programs, and even with ACC money it still is at the bottom of the Power 5. It's never going to match Michigans and Penn States $ for $, and the wrestling program certainly doesn't currently have the booster support of a Lehigh.

The immediate prior AD showed seriousness in upgrading soccer and swimming as those coaching positions opened, so investment in Olympic sports is different than pre-ACC. Obviously Lyke didn't inspire confidence with how these wrestling interviews were handled. But her mode of operation has yet to be fully understood . Facilities overhauls to the Fitz are part of a overall athletic and university 10-year facilities master plan, and likely will be part of a new major capital campaign. They clearly aren't ready to launch that and have told Gavin as much. Nish will do an honest assessment of whether the AD is serious enough about wrestling to warrant our financial support.
 
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Appreciate the long post. I'm trying to do all I can to hold the athletic department accountable and get the specifics in their short and long-term plans. Coach Gavin is getting a walk-through today on the specifics of the short-term renovations and his input will be accepted to alter it as he sees fit. Once I get the specifics I'll share them here. I'm not about to pledge money for the next 5 years and not know exactly what it's being spent on. I also need to be convinced that the shared goals of all involved are to get us back to a top 10, top 5 program.
Glad your keeping there feet to the fire!
We need more of this
I hope this is all the beginning of great things!
 
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Maybe you give your comments to Keith then. Here's the reality: Pitt has been one of the poorest athletic departments in the country among major programs, and even with ACC money it still is at the bottom of the Power 5. It's never going to match Michigans and Penn States $ for $, and the wrestling program certainly doesn't currently have the booster support of a Lehigh.

The immediate prior AD showed seriousness in upgrading soccer and swimming as those coaching positions opened, so investment in Olympic sports is different than pre-ACC. Obviously Lyke didn't inspire confidence with how these wrestling interviews were handled. But her mode of operation has yet to be fully understood . Facilities overhauls to the Fitz are part of a overall athletic and university 10-year facilities master plan, and likely will be part of a new major capital campaign. They clearly aren't ready to launch that and have told Gavin as much. Nish will do an honest assessment of whether the AD is serious enough about wrestling to warrant our financial support.


Lyke "didn't inspire confidence" the way she handled the hiring? Talk about understatement. That's like saying Custer didn't inspire confidence with his strategy at Little Big Horn.
 
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