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Pull the Plug Already

pittjas said:
Hugley is average. The extra year of buyout savings is offset by the fact nobody will be at games PLUS some of our biggest donors might be out if he’s back. Capel isn’t pulling a “Wake”. Wake pulled a Wake because they have a good coach with new coach momentum. And they’ll figure out the buyout. They always do.
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NOBODY IS COMING TO PITT GAMES NEXT YEAR UNLESS PITINO IS COACHING.

Please stop bringing up attendance. It is far from even being close to a consideration. Pitt will be picked 15th under Dennis Gates or whatever MM coach they hire and will likely be terrible. We will be getting 1000 per game like this year. If we keep Capel, maybe we get 500-750 per game. Its not a consideration. If attendance was a consideration, you hire Pitino or give Nate Oats or Buzz Williams a blank check.

And what do you mean they'll figure out the buyout? Does Heather have NCAA violations on him? Capel's P6 coaching career is over, finished if he's fired. Why in the world would he agree to take 1 penny less than his contract states ESPECIALLY given that he probably feels (whether right or wrong) the university shouldn't have had a guilty till proven innocent policy for 2 players who ended up with very minor offenses. He will get 100% of the buyout. 100%
 
Fsgolfdr said:
In a world where money means nothing your 100% correct , unless she finds the money outside the athletic department( booster ) the money is a BIG Issue .

If she fires JC and makes another poor hire her job security will come into question unless Fb continues at the level it played last season .

There really aren’t many fans left to lose at this point , hiring a no name who builds a .500 conference team in 3 yrs , which would be a huge success, won’t bring in many fans so what’s to lose in paying the guy your already committed to another yr ?
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Heather gets 1 more basketball hire. That's it. These people thinking she is going to pay an 8 figure buyout to hire a MM coach who has a better chance of totally sucking than being good are insane. With Capel next year, there is a shred of hope. You fire him and she is ON THE CLOCK and she better be darn sure the MM coach she hires is good or else she's fired before ever attending a volleyball match at Heather Lyke Arena.

The buyout is a massive issue.

The fact that Capel was her hire is a massive issue.

The fact firing him puts her on the clock is a massive issue.
 
TD_6082 said:
Louisville had dirt on Mack from the Gaudio fallout, (minor level stuff similar to Stallings at Pitt) and the internal procedure thing, which he was supposedly suspended for earlier this year, so its not like he was playing nice and letting Louisville off the hook for millions because he wanted out. They were getting rid of him and they had plenty of dirt to leverage the buyout amount down.
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Exactly. Just like Stallings. Both Mack and Louisville wanted out so they reached an amicable split. Plus he can get a really good job whenever he wants it. Capel's P6 career is finished. He will want to collect every cent.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Heather gets 1 more basketball hire. That's it. These people thinking she is going to pay an 8 figure buyout to hire a MM coach who has a better chance of totally sucking than being good are insane. With Capel next year, there is a shred of hope. You fire him and she is ON THE CLOCK and she better be darn sure the MM coach she hires is good or else she's fired before ever attending a volleyball match at Heather Lyke Arena.

The buyout is a massive issue.

The fact that Capel was her hire is a massive issue.

The fact firing him puts her on the clock is a massive issue.
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ARE YOU STUPID?????

It’s MAjor D1 athletics. You are “on the clock” everyday…. And always a year or 2 from being fired. You don’t think she feels pressure everytime Pitt has a home game and there’s 750 people there and they lose by 20 and donors are threatening to pull their $$$$????

An extra year just means more lost revenue, more lost fans, etc etc. it’s not worth all that just for a $2-3 mil savings in the buyout. That is chump change
 
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pittjas said:
ARE YOU STUPID?????

It’s MAjor D1 athletics. You are “on the clock” everyday…. And always a year or 2 from being fired. You don’t think she feels pressure everytime Pitt has a home game and there’s 750 people there and they lose by 20 and donors are threatening to pull their $$$$????

An extra year just means more lost revenue, more lost fans, etc etc. it’s not worth all that just for a $2-3 mil savings in the buyout. That is chump change
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It is absolutely worth the extra $3 million because we see Wake hit it big in the portal and go from "Pitt" to "Duke" in 1 Spring. I am not saying Capel will achieve that success but he COULD. Capel 2022-23 is no worse and probably better than Dennis Gates 2022-23. So why would Heather want to pay the extra buyout money so the Pete can be empty as Dennis Gates goes 3-17? She can save the $3 million and HOPE Capel pulls a Wake in the portal. Or maybe she instucts Capel that he must fire an assistant and hire a package deal assistant. Hypothetically, he can hire the Miller brothers handler from TCU and all of a sudden, we have a Top 20 team. Heck, pay him $1 million. That's money better spent than a buyout.

Or you hire Tre Mitchell's step-dad along with a chaperone so 22 year old Tre, living in a Wexford McMansion, isnt riding PAT buses back to the mean streets of Elizabeth, PA gangs.

Those are just 2 examples. There are PLENTY of package deal assistants. Jamie is going to make his 2nd NCAAT and both are the result of 2 different package deal assistants.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
It is absolutely worth the extra $3 million because we see Wake hit it big in the portal and go from "Pitt" to "Duke" in 1 Spring. I am not saying Capel will achieve that success but he COULD. Capel 2022-23 is no worse and probably better than Dennis Gates 2022-23. So why would Heather want to pay the extra buyout money so the Pete can be empty as Dennis Gates goes 3-17? She can save the $3 million and HOPE Capel pulls a Wake in the portal. Or maybe she instucts Capel that he must fire an assistant and hire a package deal assistant. Hypothetically, he can hire the Miller brothers handler from TCU and all of a sudden, we have a Top 20 team. Heck, pay him $1 million. That's money better spent than a buyout.

Or you hire Tre Mitchell's step-dad along with a chaperone so 22 year old Tre, living in a Wexford McMansion, isnt riding PAT buses back to the mean streets of Elizabeth, PA gangs.

Those are just 2 examples. There are PLENTY of package deal assistants. Jamie is going to make his 2nd NCAAT and both are the result of 2 different package deal assistants.
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WAKE IS GOOD BECAUSE THEY HIRED A GOOD COACH AND HAVE NEW COACH RECRUITING MOMENTUM.

We have neither of those 2 things!!!!!

And Capel isn’t firing any of the assts. He definitely isn’t firing Jason… he just promoted Milan. And Timmy is the best of the 3.

Also, no good asst would come here anyways to be fired after 1 year.

Your argument is so dumb that it’s not even worth any more of my time. Hire a good coach and the portal changes everything. We could compete next year and be this year’s Wake in 2 years with the right coach.

All bringing him back does is delay that for another extra year.
 
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pittjas said:
WAKE IS GOOD BECAUSE THEY HIRED A GOOD COACH AND HAVE NEW COACH RECRUITING MOMENTUM.

We have neither of those 2 things!!!!!

And Capel isn’t firing any of the assts. He definitely isn’t firing Jason… he just promoted Milan. And Timmy is the best of the 3.

Also, no good asst would come here anyways to be fired after 1 year.

Your argument is so dumb that it’s not even worth any more of my time. Hire a good coach and the portal changes everything. We could compete next year and be this year’s Wake in 2 years with the right coach.

All bringing him back does is delay that for another extra year.
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And you might as well put all the MM names on a wall and have a 2 year old go point to one because a MM coach is the lottery ticket of all lottery tickets. Higher failure rate than success rate. The expectation of a MM coach is he will fail here just like former MM "shining star," Jeff Capel.

If Pitt fires a coach with 5 years left on a contract and potentially 4 starters returning, they BETTER go big. It would be insanity to pay $12 million to hire Dennis Gates so we can play in front of 900 people next year.

And Forbes got insanely lucky with Williams. He may be a good coach but a Big 12 bench guy going becoming ACC POY is 90% luck. He didn't develop him and he didn't project him to be ACC POY. He saw him as a potential starter on a really bad team. That's it.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
And you might as well put all the MM names on a wall and have a 2 year old go point to one because a MM coach is the lottery ticket of all lottery tickets. Higher failure rate than success rate. The expectation of a MM coach is he will fail here just like former MM "shining star," Jeff Capel.

If Pitt fires a coach with 5 years left on a contract and potentially 4 starters returning, they BETTER go big. It would be insanity to pay $12 million to hire Dennis Gates so we can play in front of 900 people next year.

And Forbes got insanely lucky with Williams. He may be a good coach but a Big 12 bench guy going becoming ACC POY is 90% luck. He didn't develop him and he didn't project him to be ACC POY. He saw him as a potential starter on a really bad team. That's it.
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Sean Miller Fan said:
And you might as well put all the MM names on a wall and have a 2 year old go point to one because a MM coach is the lottery ticket of all lottery tickets. Higher failure rate than success rate. The expectation of a MM coach is he will fail here just like former MM "shining star," Jeff Capel.

If Pitt fires a coach with 5 years left on a contract and potentially 4 starters returning, they BETTER go big. It would be insanity to pay $12 million to hire Dennis Gates so we can play in front of 900 people next year.

And Forbes got insanely lucky with Williams. He may be a good coach but a Big 12 bench guy going becoming ACC POY is 90% luck. He didn't develop him and he didn't project him to be ACC POY. He saw him as a potential starter on a really bad team. That's it.
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Ok. Got it. So unless you know you can hire one of the Top 10 coaches out there, you should never make a coaching change ever, right? Because there’s always a chance the next one could fail too.

i think I get it now. Good point SMF!
 
They are not paying the full buyout, no school ever does, get it out of your head. You are a broken record, he doesn’t need to stay, he sucks, he doesn’t deserve another chance. His record at Pitt is all the evidence you need to tell you that he doesn’t deserve a chance. And I don’t want to hear that it can’t get any worse, we already lost the fans. we lost the fans because of Capel so no matter who you bring in there will be at least a little bit more excitement to start the year which is all we could ask for.
 
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pittjas said:
Ok. Got it. So unless you know you can hire one of the Top 10 coaches out there, you should never make a coaching change ever, right? Because there’s always a chance the next one could fail too.

i think I get it now. Good point SMF!
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If you are going to pay $12 million to fire a coach who returns 4 starters, then absolutely yes. You better land a big name because you may and probably will end up with someone worse and don't give me "nobody is worse than Capel." Plenty of MM coaches are. Capel was once them.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
If you are going to pay $12 million to fire a coach who returns 4 starters, then absolutely yes. You better land a big name because you may and probably will end up with someone worse and don't give me "nobody is worse than Capel." Plenty of MM coaches are. Capel was once them.
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Lol he hasn’t finished .500 or better yet!!!!!!

I might I want a big name or someone like Medved but we could pay some low major young coach $1-1.5 mil a year and get better results than we are now.

the 4 starters thing is dumb. For starters, they won’t all be back. And more importantly, none of them are good enough besides Hugley anyways.
 
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pittjas said:
Lol he hasn’t finished .500 or better yet!!!!!!

I might I want a big name or someone like Medved but we could pay some low major young coach $1-1.5 mil a year and get better results than we are now.

the 4 starters thing is dumb. For starters, they won’t all be back. And more importantly, none of them are good enough besides Hugley anyways.
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Hey, I'd love to hire a WPIAL coach for $100K and pay recruits $500K each but we aren't going to do that.

I am not saying Capel is a good coach. He isn't. But you guys don't understand that 8 figures for Pitt is A LOT to buyout.....especially to hire a lottery ticket who may be worse. Tell them to hire Pitino. I'm on board with that. NCAAT and packed Pete next year
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Hey, I'd love to hire a WPIAL coach for $100K and pay recruits $500K each but we aren't going to do that.

I am not saying Capel is a good coach. He isn't. But you guys don't understand that 8 figures for Pitt is A LOT to buyout.....especially to hire a lottery ticket who may be worse. Tell them to hire Pitino. I'm on board with that. NCAAT and packed Pete next year
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It won’t be 8 figures.

Give me one of those young guys you named and they’ll gladly take 2-2.5 mil and then you can give them the difference of what you were paying Capel and co to have a nice assistant pool. We’d be competitive next year.
 
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pittjas said:
It won’t be 8 figures.

Give me one of those young guys you named and they’ll gladly take 2-2.5 mil and then you can give them the difference of what you were paying Capel and co to have a nice assistant pool. We’d be competitive next year.
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Can you explain why Capel will agree to take less of a buyout to go coach an HBCU next year for $200K when he has $15 million left on his contract?

And of course they can get a lottery ticket for $2 million. And he could be WORSE. You act like a MM lottery ticket is a sure thing. MOST FAIL. You know that, right. Go get Pitino and get back to me.
 
PittMBA said:
I doubt HL’s job is any jeapordy no matter what happens with the next bball coach unless some scandal falls over the athletic department. PItt FB is on top of the ACC , the athletic department as a whole seems to be healthier than it’s ever been.

Certainly money is an ‘issue’ but what evidence is there that PItt and HL are unable or unwilling to spend to get the coach they want?

They got rid of Stallings when there was this ridiculous uproar that it was as unfair and too costly and pay Capel like a top 6 in the ACC salary . Nothing about past action under HL says PItt is cheap.

HL strikes me as no nonsense and won’t hesitate to make a move.
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Well we will see , there’s not any good reason to continue on with the Capel era if money isn’t an issue .
 
I’ve said this before , it’s easy to spend other peoples money , whatever the % of his contract that has to be paid out ,if he’s terminated , is a considerable amount of money . Thinking that 8-12 million is chump change to Pitts athletic department isn’t thinking straight , it’s a lot of money.( This has nothing to do with Pitts endowment money . )

Then having the capital to hire anyone of note seems highly unlikely and taking a shot with a mid major guy is always a gamble that could easily leave the Pete empty for another 4 yrs .

The solution is simple fire Capel and hire a proven big time winner , so it costs them close to 8 or 9 million a yr ( 3 for JC 5-6 for new coach ) for the next 5 yrs and hope that they fill the Pete up .It’s only money !
 
LeftCoastPanther said:
Ridl hated to recruit, Chipman and Timmy G quit preamturely. Evans underachieved. All average hires.

Commitment, facilities . . no wonder the history of the program is so uninspiring.
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Just curious how you know that Ridl hated to recruit? Did you know him personally? He had an aggressive young recruiter in Gurg. Chipman quit because he was burned out and that doesn't mean he was not successful. He changed his systems to match his personnel like when he went to the 1-3-1 to match his athletic teams with Clancy, etc and won 2 straight ECA ships. And Evans was considered one of the hottest coaches in the country when he came here. They were all good bball coaches. Maybe didn't stay long enough for you or go far enough in the NCAAs to satisfy you but they could coach.
 
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FrogmoreZeke said:
Just curious how you know that Ridl hated to recruit? Did you know him personally? He had an aggressive young recruiter in Gurg. Chipman quit because he was burned out and that doesn't mean he was not successful. He changed his systems to match his personnel like when he went to the 1-3-1 to match his athletic teams with Clancy, etc and won 2 straight ECA ships. And Evans was considered one of the hottest coaches in the country when he came here. They were all good bball coaches. Maybe didn't stay long enough for you or go far enough in the NCAAs to satisfy you but they could coach.
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In my Hail to Pitt book from the early 80s it stated that Doc, Timmons and Ridl hated to recruit and thought it was a vile practice. It must be true to let so many fantastic players from western PA from 1951-74 head elsewhere.

Evans may have been a hot commodity but clearly was an average coach. He was good for Pitt considering its mediocre history when he arrived, but in the BE the other team had an advantage at coaching when facing Pitt pretty much his entire tenure, and I’m not even an Evans hater.

I’m just calling it as I see it. Timmy G should have coached at Pitt over 20 years and it would have been awesome. If the school got in the way of it happening then even more reason for my frustration.
 
LeftCoastPanther said:
In my Hail to Pitt book from the early 80s it stated that Doc, Timmons and Ridl hated to recruit and thought it was a vile practice. It must be true to let so many fantastic players from western PA from 1951-74 head elsewhere.

Evans may have been a hot commodity but clearly was an average coach. He was good for Pitt considering its mediocre history when he arrived, but in the BE the other team had an advantage at coaching when facing Pitt pretty much his entire tenure, and I’m not even an Evans hater.

I’m just calling it as I see it. Timmy G should have coached at Pitt over 20 years and it would have been awesome. If the school got in the way of it happening then even more reason for my frustration.
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Gurg got frustrated with the admin at the time cause they wouldn't put any money into the program. And all he was asking for were little things like a fresh coat of paint in his office. He and Foge had identical bios. Both bled B&G, were tremendous assistant coaches specializing in D, and both were great recruiters. Unfortunately, neither could handle going from being the good cop as an assistant coach to bad cop as head coach. And both ended up having long careers as highly respected assistants at the pro level. Met both and interacted with them and both were also great guys.
 
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Sean Miller Fan said:
Correct. Miami and Wake give Heather an out. Miami: old AF team who sucked last year and Wake hitting the lottery in the portal give Heather a reason to save $3 million and wait a year.
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What Pitt needs more than anything is an elite center to put To Hugley on the bench. Terrible
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Correct. Miami and Wake give Heather an out. Miami: old AF team who sucked last year and Wake hitting the lottery in the portal give Heather a reason to save $3 million and wait a year.
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If she waits another year, she will leave with him hand in hand

Can you fire an AD for cause?
 
I’ll take hugely, femi and burton next year, have Capel, other coaches, and the rest of the island of misfit toys and they can jog to wherever there home is cause they aren’t needed. I’ll take a new coach and whoever he can get here, and I will guarantee it won’t be this embarrassing. I bleed blue and gold and I pray no one brings up the basketball team to me cause I might hide my face, I am complete ashamed of this team, this is as much as I got cause I am pretty speechless right now.
 
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Silkky1982 said:
I’ll take hugely, femi and burton next year, have Capel, other coaches, and the rest of the island of misfit toys and they can jog to wherever there home is cause they aren’t needed. I’ll take a new coach and whoever he can get here, and I will guarantee it won’t be this embarrassing. I bleed blue and gold and I pray no one brings up the basketball team to me cause I might hide my face, I am complete ashamed of this team, this is as much as I got cause I am pretty speechless right now.
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Yeah. This is Majors II bad.
 
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