Question for the NW lurkers that are acting defensive..

[UPitt '89]

- imagine if Jackson had been knocked out of the game just before halftime on a helmet to helmet shot away from the ball.

- and imagine if Thorson was then knocked out of the game at the end of the 3rd quarter due to a helmet to helmet shot.

Questions: would you then consider NW's subsequent loss in the game ... and they WOULD have lost if the above occurred...a bit of a fluke? Would you have thought your team was robbed of its ability to demonstrate its true potential by two flagrant personal fouls that weren't called and should have resulted in ejections?

The reason your win was a fluke is that you beat Pitt without its QB and top 2 RBs for a significant portion of the game.... and it wasn't through happenstance and random injury bad luck... it was because of two shots that would've resulted in 5-figure fines if they occurred in an NFL game.

NW couldnt beat Pitt with Pitt's best on the field.... and a couple of flagrant plays by NW players made sure Pitt's best wasn't on the field.

Capiche?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

13-9 was without Pat White for 2+ quarters.

NW was outplaying Pitt when those injuries happened. Maybe we win with those guys but they looked better than us to be honest.

 

[UPitt '89]

13-9 was without Pat White for 2+ quarters.

NW was outplaying Pitt when those injuries happened. Maybe we win with those guys but they looked better than us to be honest.

That's a common misconception about the 13-9 game. Pat White only missed 2 offensive series... and one of those was Jarrett getting WVU's only points.

Jarrett played the final series of the 2nd quarter for Wvu...they never got the ball back after that in the first half. Then WVU fumbled the opening kickoff of the second half... Pitt had a 9 minute drive to take the lead... then Jarrett went 3 and out in his second series on the field... then Pitt ran out the rest of the 3rd quarter on another scoring drive to give Pitt a 13-7 lead. Then White played the fourth quarter.

WVU only had 3 offensive plays in the 3rd quarter.

So while White missed almost 2 quarters, he only missed 2 WVU possessions... one of which was their only TD.

 

[Jtommyj]

That's a common misconception about the 13-9 game. Pat White only missed 2 offensive series... and one of those was Jarrett getting WVU's only points.

Jarrett played the final series of the 2nd quarter for Wvu...they never got the ball back after that in the first half. Then WVU fumbled the opening kickoff of the second half... Pitt had a 9 minute drive to take the lead... then Jarrett went 3 and out in his second series on the field... then Pitt ran out the rest of the 3rd quarter on another scoring drive to give Pitt a 13-7 lead. Then White played the fourth quarter.

WVU only had 3 offensive plays in the 3rd quarter.

So while White missed almost 2 quarters, he only missed 2 WVU possessions... one of which was their only TD.

NW won the game.. There are 85 players on the team. Maybe HCPN should have been better prepared...

That reply makes absolutely no sense in context to the quote. Is that an error or something ?

 

[UPitt '89]

13-9 was without Pat White for 2+ quarters.

NW was outplaying Pitt when those injuries happened. Maybe we win with those guys but they looked better than us to be honest.

Also... apples and oranges to the original post.

Pat White injured his hand when his thumb hyperextended while being tackled. That's not a helmet to helmet shot that should've been penalized.

Accidental injuries are part of the sport.... flagrant helmet to helmet head shots aren't supposed to be.

 

[H2P333]

We should Have won the game. Pitt is and was the better team. Most people saw and know this. Fluke pluas, bad ref calls and injuries to 10 starters was the difference and we still almost won. Nothing lost on this game and won't affect momentum going forward. We have a strong class coming in and Coach Narduzzi will have more of his players to run his schemes. These crap defense outings are on the old regime and Coach should not be on the hook for players that don't fit his schemes. F the Big 10 and NW.

 

[Pitt-Chains]

13-9 was without Pat White for 2+ quarters.

NW was outplaying Pitt when those injuries happened. Maybe we win with those guys but they looked better than us to be honest.

SMF, at times your a dick, this is one of those times.

 

[Pitt-Chains]

Also... apples and oranges to the original post.

Pat White injured his hand when his thumb hyperextended while being tackled. That's not a helmet to helmet shot that should've been penalized.

Accidental injuries are part of the sport.... flagrant helmet to helmet head shots aren't supposed to be.

89, SMF is a jackscrew sometimes.

 

[Pitt-Chains]

13-9 was without Pat White for 2+ quarters.

NW was outplaying Pitt when those injuries happened. Maybe we win with those guys but they looked better than us to be honest.

SMF, do some detective work and verify which referees/conference the no calls against PITT come from..

 

[Jeffburgh]

Look, Pitt had no business losing. It shouldn't have been a blowout, but the Panthers were 5 point favorites.

BUT, NW played the better game. Executed more consistently, made less mistakes.

 

[UPitt '89]

Look, Pitt had no business losing. It shouldn't have been a blowout, but the Panthers were 5 point favorites.

BUT, NW played the better game. Executed more consistently, made less mistakes.

....and didn't play the second half without their best RB (Jackson) or the 4th quarter without their QB (Thorson).

 

[NCanton Panther]

....and didn't play the second half without their best RB (Jackson) or the 4th quarter without their QB (Thorson).

NW controlled both LOS's for most of the game. That was a bug reason they won and had nothing to do with us losing our QB or RB.

Yeah we would have had a better chance of winning in the 4th with our QB and RB but don't act like we were beating NW all over the field before they got knocked out.

 

[Jeffburgh]

....and didn't play the second half without their best RB (Jackson) or the 4th quarter without their QB (Thorson).

Yeah, I wouldn't accept that as an excuse if it happened in reverse.
They played better, simple as that.

 

[UPitt '89]

NW controlled both LOS's for most of the game. That was a bug reason they won and had nothing to do with us losing our QB or RB.

Yeah we would have had a better chance of winning in the 4th with our QB and RB but don't act like we were beating NW all over the field before they got knocked out.

The score was 14-10 when Conner left.....and 21-17 when Peterman left.

And Pitt put up 169 yards rushing and 269 yards passing without Conner for a half and without Peterman and DJ for a quarter. NW didnt in any way shape or form dominate the LOS against our offense.

 

[CCHS82]

- imagine if Jackson had been knocked out of the game just before halftime on a helmet to helmet shot away from the ball.

- and imagine if Thorson was then knocked out of the game at the end of the 3rd quarter due to a helmet to helmet shot.

Questions: would you then consider NW's subsequent loss in the game ... and they WOULD have lost if the above occurred...a bit of a fluke? Would you have thought your team was robbed of its ability to demonstrate its true potential by two flagrant personal fouls that weren't called and should have resulted in ejections?

The reason your win was a fluke is that you beat Pitt without its QB and top 2 RBs for a significant portion of the game.... and it wasn't through happenstance and random injury bad luck... it was because of two shots that would've resulted in 5-figure fines if they occurred in an NFL game.

NW couldnt beat Pitt with Pitt's best on the field.... and a couple of flagrant plays by NW players made sure Pitt's best wasn't on the field.

Capiche?

Sorry'89 but I'm not into excuse making. Sounds too much like nitter logic to me. Ifs and buts and blah, blah, blah.

Jackson ran thru us and around us. NW converted some ridiculous amount of their third downs and were 4 for 4 on 4th down. They stopped our first team offense at least three times inside the red zone and held us to 3 points in doing so.

Face it, NW played a pretty good game and deserved to win last night. Period. Time to move on.

 

[NCanton Panther]

The score was 14-10 when Conner left.....and 21-17 when Peterman left.

And Pitt put up 169 yards rushing and 269 yards passing without Conner for a half and without Peterman and DJ for a quarter. NW didnt in any way shape or form dominate the LOS against our offense.

If you don't think they dominated both LOS then we were watching 2 different games. We stayed with them thanks to big plays. They tortured us in small increments but were very successful doing it.

 

[UPitt '89]

Sorry'89 but I'm not into excuse making. Sounds too much like nitter logic to me. Ifs and buts and blah, blah, blah.

Jackson ran thru us and around us. NW converted some ridiculous amount of their third downs and were 4 for 4 on 4th down. They stopped our first team offense at least three times inside the red zone and held us to 3 points in doing so.

Face it, NW played a pretty good game and deserved to win last night. Period. Time to move on.

I agree that NW played a pretty good game.

But they don't win if Conner and Peterman play the entire game. And if those two were hurt on incidental plays, then those are the breaks and I say "oh well". But getting hurt on helmet-to-helmet plays that would be 5-figure fines if they happened on Sundays.... that's tough to swallow. "Taking players out" with cheap hits is much different than having them hurt during clean plays that just happen as part of the game.

This is the same as Burfict taking out Brown in last year's playoffs with a helmet-to-helmet hit... it cost Pittsburgh a chance to beat Denver in the following week, and fans have a right to feel cheated by that.

Burfict paid with a 3 game suspension and a loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars in game checks. When it happens in college, it is no less destructive to the victimized team, but there's no recourse.

The 15 yards that should've happened with the hit on Conner puts Pitt in FG range at the end of the half instead of ending up trying a hail mary. That's 3 potential points.

The 15 yards that should've happened with the hit on Peterman would've given Pitt first and goal trailing 21-17. Instead of a long FG miss by Blewitt. That's 7 more.

That 10 points simply from the refs calling the personal fouls they should've called, without even Conner and Peterman returning to the game.

The bush-league Mountain West officiating crew should never work another football game.

 

[UPitt '89]

If you don't think they dominated both LOS then we were watching 2 different games. We stayed with them thanks to big plays. They tortured us in small increments but were very successful doing it.

There's no doubt that NW's offense dominated the LOS against Pitt's defense.

But Pitt's offense averaged 5.3 yards per rush, 9.3 yards per pass, and allowed only one sack. And ran up 438 yards on just 63 plays.

What stopped Pitt's offense was Pitt making unforced errors in the Red Zone (fumbled exchange with QH on the first drive, Aston tripping over his own feet on the 2nd drive, Peterman not looking off the safety on the third drive, Blewitt missing a FG, Orndoff dropping a perfect passt)... not NW. None of those things were NW's doing...and didn't involve any "domination of the LOS" by their defense.

 

[CCHS82]

There's no doubt that NW's offense dominated the LOS against Pitt's defense.

But Pitt's offense averaged 5.3 yards per rush, 9.3 yards per pass, and allowed only one sack. And ran up 438 yards on just 63 plays.

What stopped Pitt's offense was Pitt making unforced errors in the Red Zone (fumbled exchange with QH on the first drive, Aston tripping over his own feet on the 2nd drive, Peterman not looking off the safety on the third drive, Blewitt missing a FG, Orndoff dropping a perfect passt)... not NW. None of those things were NW's doing...and didn't involve any "domination of the LOS" by their defense.

And these things that you point out regarding Pitt's offensive "struggles" contributed more (IMHO) to their loss than the two "missed" personal fouls. If you are looking for excuses, put these near the top of your list. Add in: Officer's poor snaps; inability to get off the field on third and fourth downs on defense; play-calling to throw a "high" ball, over-the-top ball (whatever you want to call it) to a 5'9" receiver on 4th down late in the game; defensive pass-interferences; slow linebackers; pre-game injuries; etc. etc. Bottom line- its not just one or two plays, it usually never is. NW beat our butts fair and square and earned the win.

 

[BigNUFan51]

- imagine if Jackson had been knocked out of the game just before halftime on a helmet to helmet shot away from the ball.

- and imagine if Thorson was then knocked out of the game at the end of the 3rd quarter due to a helmet to helmet shot.

Questions: would you then consider NW's subsequent loss in the game ... and they WOULD have lost if the above occurred...a bit of a fluke? Would you have thought your team was robbed of its ability to demonstrate its true potential by two flagrant personal fouls that weren't called and should have resulted in ejections?

The reason your win was a fluke is that you beat Pitt without its QB and top 2 RBs for a significant portion of the game.... and it wasn't through happenstance and random injury bad luck... it was because of two shots that would've resulted in 5-figure fines if they occurred in an NFL game.

NW couldnt beat Pitt with Pitt's best on the field.... and a couple of flagrant plays by NW players made sure Pitt's best wasn't on the field.

Capiche?

Weren't we winning 14-10 at the half (when all those players were on the field)? In fact is was your backups that brought the team back down 21-17 if I recall correctly.

Not claiming to be a football savant, but generally unless you are playing a triple option team if you give up over 250 yards on the ground you lose more often than not.

Pittsburgh was Northwesterns 7th power five win of the season so we were better than you guys were giving us credit for. It just happens we played the best group of five team in the country (and lost by a point) and had a fluke loss to a mediocre FCS school at home.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

Anyone who thinks that Pitt's loss of their starting QB and best RB didn't affect the outcome of the game must have slept through the other games in Pitt's season.

Peterman was Pitt's only hope of completing a long pass. His absence enabled a good Northwestern team to play a tighter defense, with more numbers closer to the line-of-scrimmage.

We saw what happened when Jester Weah got behind their defense. In essence, Peterman's absence took Weah out of the game, too.

And Pitt's play-calling had to have been affected, too, since DiNucci hadn't practiced the number of plays in Pitt's playbook as Peterman had.

 

[BigNUFan51]

Anyone who thinks that Pitt's loss of their starting QB and best RB didn't affect the outcome of the game must have slept through the other games in Pitt's season.

Peterman was Pitt's only hope of completing a long pass. His absence enabled a good Northwestern team to play a tighter defense, with more numbers closer to the line-of-scrimmage.

We saw what happened when Jester Weah got behind their defense. In essence, Peterman's absence took Weah out of the game, too.

And Pitt's play-calling had to have been affected, too, since DiNucci hadn't practiced the number of plays in Pitt's playbook as Peterman had.

Not going to deny that the in-game injuries had an effect on the outcome. I'm just in disagreement with your premise that Pitt would have won if those things did not occur. You cannot prove that.

 

[jtownknowitall]

The bush-league Mountain West officiating crew should never work another football game.

So what officials are capable of working a Pitt game in the future?

 

[pittguy81]

13-9 was without Pat White for 2+ quarters.

NW was outplaying Pitt when those injuries happened. Maybe we win with those guys but they looked better than us to be honest.

Pat White played over 75% of the offensive snaps in that game.

 

[Panther Parrothead]

Pat White played over 75% of the offensive snaps in that game.

With or without Pat White, how many points did the refs take away from Pitt via phantom holding calls?

 

[NCanton Panther]

Anyone who thinks that Pitt's loss of their starting QB and best RB didn't affect the outcome of the game must have slept through the other games in Pitt's season.

Peterman was Pitt's only hope of completing a long pass. His absence enabled a good Northwestern team to play a tighter defense, with more numbers closer to the line-of-scrimmage.

We saw what happened when Jester Weah got behind their defense. In essence, Peterman's absence took Weah out of the game, too.

And Pitt's play-calling had to have been affected, too, since DiNucci hadn't practiced the number of plays in Pitt's playbook as Peterman had.

Panther Parrothead, I'm not and I don't think anyone else is claiming it had no effect on this game. We are all just saying that NW was giving us all or more than we could handle before they went out and it was no given that we would have won if they had remained in the game. I think our biggest undoing was our almost complete inability to stop them on 3rd and 4th down.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

13-9 was without Pat White for 2+ quarters.

NW was outplaying Pitt when those injuries happened. Maybe we win with those guys but they looked better than us to be honest.

Not just outplaying us, but outcoaching us. Northwestern looked like the far better prepared football team.

 

[DarthCat]

When Connor went out, you were down 14-10, and when Peterman went out you were down 21-17. You couldn't hold any of three leads throughout the game, and only one time did you even hold a lead through our ensuing drive. After going up 3-0 in the 1st, you held us to a five play drive where we didn't score. We scored on the next drive after that, and on each of the drives immediately after Pitt took very brief leads, first on an 89 yard, 14 play drive and then on a 76 yard, 14 play drive.

In fact, it was a single explosion play after we went up 14-3 that even kept the game close.

Face it, you we're already getting beaten 'with your best', and had shown ZERO signs of being able to even remotely stop NU's offense or hold any lead whatsoever.

That is why you lost the game. You couldn't hold any lead you generated, and being that your stars went out when NU already had the lead (both times), nothing that had happened in that game to that point indicated that future Pitt scores would be any more safe.

You bitch and whine about your tailback cutting too hard and slipping and not scoring on 3rd down, even though you had another chance and Connor got stuffed on 4th, but ignore the far more flukish play of a swing pass going for a fumble, when we were again moving to score, having moved the ball 50 yards quickly, to further pad our lead.

I'll say, I'd been warned. "The whiniest and bitchiest fans in college football," I'd been told. 'Nothing could be worse than Iowa fans,' I responded. A state with NOTHING to do other than follow Hawkeye football, they are real, real bad. But I never thought I'd see anything like this.

 

[UPitt '89]

When Connor went out, you were down 14-10, and when Peterman went out you were down 21-17. You couldn't hold any of three leads throughout the game, and only one time did you even hold a lead through our ensuing drive. After going up 3-0 in the 1st, you held us to a five play drive where we didn't score. We scored on the next drive after that, and on each of the drives immediately after Pitt took very brief leads, first on an 89 yard, 14 play drive and then on a 76 yard, 14 play drive.

In fact, it was a single explosion play after we went up 14-3 that even kept the game close.

Face it, you we're already getting beaten 'with your best', and had shown ZERO signs of being able to even remotely stop NU's offense or hold any lead whatsoever.

That is why you lost the game. You couldn't hold any lead you generated, and being that your stars went out when Nu already had the lead (both times), nothing that had happened in that game to that point indicated that future Pitt scores would be any more safe.

You bitch and whine about your tailback cutting too hard and slipping and not scoring on 3rd down, even though you had another chance and Connor got stuffedand owned on 4th, but ignore the far more flukish play of a swing pass going for a fumble, when we were again moving to score, having moved the ball 50 yards quickly, to further pad our lead.

I'll say, I'd been warned. "The whiniest and bitchiest fans in college football," I'd been told. I never thought I'd see anything like this.

You didn't answer the question... so I'll modify it here:

Would NW have come back from the 17-14 Pitt lead that happened on the first Drive of the 3rd quarter if Jackson had left the game at the half due to a helmet to helmet hit?

Would NW have come back from the 24-21 lead Pitt took on the first Drive of the 4th quarter if Thorson had left the game at the end of the 3rd after a helmet to helmet hit?

Do you honestly believe your team would've scored any more points with your backup QB and backup TB in the game at those points?

 

[DarthCat]

No idea. Our backup tailback is a two time B10 freshman player of the week, with better speed and a better ypc average than Jackson (5.1 vs. 6.0). Could he have lit up your D the way Jackson did? Likely, yes. He's had strong games against far better defenses than Pitt, and per Jackson's own words, you could have driven a truck through the holes being blown in the Pitt line.

But the Pitt fan adherence to 'illegal' hits costing them the game, one of which was reviewed specifically and deemed 'legal' is ridiculous. The only crown of the helmet involved on Peterman's hit was his own, which was leveled down into the ear hole/face mask side of Washington. Washington never lowered his head at all. You don't have targeting using the side of your face. Even Golick said it was deemed that Washington had his face turned, and therefore it wasn't targeting. To the Pitt fan who said that aspect of the play wasn't being reviewed because it wasn't called on the field, he is 100% incorrect. If the replay deemed it was illegal, Washington would have been ejected right there, regardless of whether the flag had been thrown.

The Pitt fan bitching, calling plays ruled legal by the officials as illegal, and calling the least penalized team in the Big Ten, and third least in all of college football, WHO HASN'T HAD A TARGETING CALL AGAINST THEM IN ALL OF 2015 AND 2016, 'dirty', calling 'most of our tackles' as illegal head to head shots, reeks of pathetic whining and desperation to understand how a team in which you were so confident got largely owned by a mere 6-6 academic focused school.

 

[kma0043]

Turn the ball over 3 times in the end zone equals a loss for almost any team. What a thud to the end of a decent year.

 

[NCanton Panther]

No idea. Our backup tailback is a two time B10 freshman player of the week, with better speed and a better ypc average than Jackson (5.1 vs. 6.0). Could he have lit up your D the way Jackson did? Likely, yes. He's had strong games against far better defenses than Pitt, and per Jackson's own words, you could have driven a truck through the holes being blown in the Pitt line.

But the Pitt fan adherence to 'illegal' hits costing them the game, one of which was reviewed specifically and deemed 'legal' is ridiculous. The only crown of the helmet involved on Peterman's hit was his own, which was leveled down into the ear hole/face mask side of Washington. Washington never lowered his head at all. You don't have targeting using the side of your face. Even Golick said it was deemed that Washington had his face turned, and therefore it wasn't targeting. To the Pitt fan who said that aspect of the play wasn't being reviewed because it wasn't called on the field, he is 100% incorrect. If the replay deemed it was illegal, Washington would have been ejected right there, regardless of whether the flag had been thrown.

The Pitt fan bitching, calling plays ruled legal by the officials as illegal, and calling the least penalized team in the Big Ten, and third least in all of college football, WHO HASN'T HAD A TARGETING CALL AGAINST THEM IN ALL OF 2015 AND 2016, 'dirty', calling 'most of our tackles' as illegal head to head shots, reeks of pathetic whining and desperation to understand how a team in which you were so confident got largely owned by a mere 6-6 academic focused school.

Ok Darthcat, I think your criticism of whiny Pitt fans is a little over the top here. If you were reasonable, you'd note that more Pitt posters in this thread and other threads on this site aren't agreeing with the OP's thoughts and are instead admitting that NW was giving us all we could handle with or wo our QB and RB.

So I guess you are no better than us whiny Pitt fans with your inaccurate statements.

 

[Gladeskat]

If you don't think they dominated both LOS then we were watching 2 different games. We stayed with them thanks to big plays. They tortured us in small increments but were very successful doing it.

NU certainly dominated the LOS inside the red zone. Stopped Pitt three times for zero points. 4th and an inch and you couldn't punch it in! Meanwhile, NU is converting on third down all day and 4 for 4 on 4th down, while rushing for 250 yards.

But maybe Pitt just didn't run enough clown plays like OT pass plays to catch NU off guard.

 

[Gladeskat]

You didn't answer the question... so I'll modify it here:

Would NW have come back from the 17-14 Pitt lead that happened on the first Drive of the 3rd quarter if Jackson had left the game at the half due to a helmet to helmet hit?

Would NW have come back from the 24-21 lead Pitt took on the first Drive of the 4th quarter if Thorson had left the game at the end of the 3rd after a helmet to helmet hit?

Do you honestly believe your team would've scored any more points with your backup QB and backup TB in the game at those points?

Yes. Moten (Missouri 100m champ @ 10.56) is not as good an all-around runner as JJ, but is much faster than Jackson. However, considering the size of the holes NU was creating against Pitt's DL, he might have gained even more yards than JJ.

Our backup QB would have done fine.

 

[Pittx9]

The injuries bottom line were just incompetent refs not protecting players. I think if nobody gets hurt we find a way to win, but nobody knows that for sure. The loss is not on the officials at all. But they were an absolute disgrace and should never be employed again. Player safety is the issue here. I mean if you just let the hit on Conner go by with nothing called, it's actually dangerous for that crew to even officiate. They should be completely ashamed of themselves for letting such a circus go on.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I was not too happy with the hit on Conner especially. That was helmet to helmet and way after the whistle and away from the football.

That is by any definition a penalty.

However, injuries are part of the game and you win some, you lose some. If we were to play them again this Saturday would I like our chances? Of course I would. However, that's not gonna happen and we lost.

Move on.