Questions for people who know what they are watching

[gary2]

Did we play different tonight? it looked different To me.

It didn’t look great by any means, but it looked different.

I don’t think the difference was just that Horton had a hot hand.

I don’t think we run much offense and I don’t think we ran much offense tonight.

Was the focus different? Was the spacing/positioning different?

Was the style different?

It sure looked different.Did we change anything? Did our coach, coach?

OR….did we look different because FSU played us differently?

OR…I am all wet and it was the same old, same old?

 

[TreesHero]

QUICK SEDOND PASSES

What's been missing all season but we saw tonight was the QUICK SECOND PASS to a shooter (well, Pitt's version of a shooter). It helps for the Panthers to have their full compliment of their best outside shooters, but those passes need to be made even if Horton isn't there.

There was much less focus on passing it to Hugley inside to start the offense because FSU is VERY TALL (as usual), and he just isn't very effective (yet) against 7-footers. Nevertheless, the Panthers still were able to run an inside-out game with dribble drives. The occasional changeup with inside pass to an open Hugley helped to keep the Seminoles on their heels.

The worst pass to start the Panther offense has become the pass to Hugley when he's posting up in "no mans land." That would be posting on the baseline/extended block. Teams know how to handle him there. He needs to get the ball while posting only in the paint or receive the ball facing the basket for a midrange/outside triple-threat position (preferably for an open shot).

You know what else happens when THIS YEAR'S VERSION of Hugley gets the ball in no mans land? The spacing is terrible. It's too congested to pass out to the corner and the baseline is the extra defender. There was very few of this type of Hugley possession tonight, making the spacing indeed much better for the QUICK SECOND PASS.

FACTOR ON BOTH ENDS: FSU isn't as quick as V-Tech. That made for better defensive help & recovery. It also made the inside-out game a little more open on offense.

 

[TIGER-PAUL]

Tough to say as this level of play is awful. Shocking seeing some of these ACC rosters how diluted things are right now.
My overall take watching is still Capel is in way over his head. He doesn’t appear to have command of anything. It’s ‘just play basketball’.

 

[DruidTM]

Tough to say as this level of play is awful. Shocking seeing some of these ACC rosters how diluted things are right now.
My overall take watching is still Capel is in way over his head. He doesn’t appear to have command of anything. It’s ‘just play basketball’.

This literally was the opposite of what the original poster asked for but whatever

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

QUICK SEDOND PASSES

What's been missing all season but we saw tonight was the QUICK SECOND PASS to a shooter (well, Pitt's version of a shooter). It helps for the Panthers to have their full compliment of their best outside shooters, but those passes need to be made even if Horton isn't there.

Agree.

There was much less focus on passing it to Hugley inside to start the offense because FSU is VERY TALL (as usual), and he just isn't very effective (yet) against 7-footers. Nevertheless, the Panthers still were able to run an inside-out game with dribble drives. The occasional changeup with inside pass to an open Hugley helped to keep the Seminoles on their heels.

Also, in any game, whenever the ball goes to Hugley inside, he needs to learn to pass the ball back out to a shooter before he is fully doubled by the second defender and he is trapped making that pass too difficult. This is a feel for the game thing that comes with the experience Hugley doesn't yet have.

The worst pass to start the Panther offense has become the pass to Hugley when he's posting up in "no mans land." That would be posting on the baseline/extended block. Teams know how to handle him there. He needs to get the ball while posting only in the paint or receive the ball facing the basket for a midrange/outside triple-threat position (preferably for an open shot).

You know what else happens when THIS YEAR'S VERSION of Hugley gets the ball in no mans land? The spacing is terrible. It's too congested to pass out to the corner and the baseline is the extra defender. There was very few of this type of Hugley possession tonight, making the spacing indeed much better for the QUICK SECOND PASS.

FACTOR ON BOTH ENDS: FSU isn't as quick as V-Tech. That made for better defensive help & recovery. It also made the inside-out game a little more open on offense.

Agree again. Horton got the good looks from three that he didn't get vs Va Tech and some prior games he played.

Finally, had we made FTs at our usual better % we would have won a little more comfortably.

 

[Upg bobcat]

I don't know about the offense, but I thought we looked pretty bad on D -- which is pretty usual. I mean Mo was a monster, I'll give him that, but FSU had a TON of wide open shots. FSU just shot very poor.

What I will say about the offense -- we scored 56 points. Is that enough to win most games? I'm not really sure we did much that great.

 

[TommySmiles]

X and O wise we were different in Hugely was not the 1st option nor the #1 option he complimented the Guards and ran the baseline more. most of the game he wasn't posting up initially and working the baseline while the guards were moving the ball and dribble driving

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I don't know about the offense, but I thought we looked pretty bad on D -- which is pretty usual. I mean Mo was a monster, I'll give him that, but FSU had a TON of wide open shots. FSU just shot very poor.

What I will say about the offense -- we scored 56 points. Is that enough to win most games? I'm not really sure we did much that great.

Yes, 56 isn't enough usually. However we were only 12 for 24 on FTs. Usually we have been around 70% as a team. Had we been there last night we would have gone more like 17-24 and won 61-51. Still, 61 points is about where we usually are and that isn't great either. On the other hand FSU isn't great offensively when they can't run a fast break effectively off rebounding which didn't happen because our defensive rebounding was good last night and slowed the pace of the game.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

And we played FSU's bench. That can help any team shoot well and defend.

 

[JD1976]

The only difference I saw in the game was FSU stunk on offense. I think we are a pretty frustrating team to play against when 3s aren’t falling.

 

[sonofabit]

And we played FSU's bench. That can help any team shoot well and defend.

Agree. FSU not a full strength. FSU made the match-up adjustment mostly to stop Horton but then Pitt got better movement starting with Burton’s awakening. Pitt’s spacing looked like everyone else who played Pitt this year. Nice to see an opponent having to stop that Horton/Mo duo at the arc. Still need that classic PG to facilitate.

 

[FrogmoreZeke]

Did we play different tonight? it looked different To me.

It didn’t look great by any means, but it looked different.

I don’t think the difference was just that Horton had a hot hand.

I don’t think we run much offense and I don’t think we ran much offense tonight.

Was the focus different? Was the spacing/positioning different?

Was the style different?

It sure looked different.Did we change anything? Did our coach, coach?

OR….did we look different because FSU played us differently?

OR…I am all wet and it was the same old, same old?

Because FS was pressing the coaches finally went into what is called Early O. Meaning instead of getting the ball across half court and then pulling it back out and run clock, they were getting it across and attacking and looking for a quicker shot. This is the way to attack a press and particularly when you have a hot shooter like Horton was last night. Guye was also taking quicker shots.

Cappie wants to, as he always says, "play ugly", which is code word for running as much clock as possible and reducing possessions. The game was still very ugly and low scoring but at least they were trying to attack the pressure instead of the other way around.

I was actually surprised that FS kept pressing cause they weren't trapping until the very end. Seemed pointless to me and was back firing most of the time.

Also they must have had a talk with Horton after the last game and told him to stop hesitating cause I thought he was passing up way too many shots vs V Tech.

 

[HolyPitt]

And we played FSU's bench. That can help any team shoot well and defend.

I agree, FSU missing three players more of an impact (Two starters Osborne and Polite) : Forward Malik Osborne is out for the season after ankle surgery, center Naheem McLeod is out after breaking bones in his right hand, which required surgery as well, and guard Anthony Polite also required surgery after suffering a fractured wrist.

 

[gary2]

QUICK SEDOND PASSES

What's been missing all season but we saw tonight was the QUICK SECOND PASS to a shooter (well, Pitt's version of a shooter). It helps for the Panthers to have their full compliment of their best outside shooters, but those passes need to be made even if Horton isn't there.

There was much less focus on passing it to Hugley inside to start the offense because FSU is VERY TALL (as usual), and he just isn't very effective (yet) against 7-footers. Nevertheless, the Panthers still were able to run an inside-out game with dribble drives. The occasional changeup with inside pass to an open Hugley helped to keep the Seminoles on their heels.

The worst pass to start the Panther offense has become the pass to Hugley when he's posting up in "no mans land." That would be posting on the baseline/extended block. Teams know how to handle him there. He needs to get the ball while posting only in the paint or receive the ball facing the basket for a midrange/outside triple-threat position (preferably for an open shot).

You know what else happens when THIS YEAR'S VERSION of Hugley gets the ball in no mans land? The spacing is terrible. It's too congested to pass out to the corner and the baseline is the extra defender. There was very few of this type of Hugley possession tonight, making the spacing indeed much better for the QUICK SECOND PASS.

FACTOR ON BOTH ENDS: FSU isn't as quick as V-Tech. That made for better defensive help & recovery. It also made the inside-out game a little more open on offense.

Thanks - Good, detailed explanation - Certainly in line with what I thought I was seeing

 

[gary2]

Because FS was pressing the coaches finally went into what is called Early O. Meaning instead of getting the ball across half court and then pulling it back out and run clock, they were getting it across and attacking and looking for a quicker shot. This is the way to attack a press and particularly when you have a hot shooter like Horton was last night. Guye was also taking quicker shots.

Cappie wants to, as he always says, "play ugly", which is code word for running as much clock as possible and reducing possessions. The game was still very ugly and low scoring but at least they were trying to attack the pressure instead of the other way around.

I was actually surprised that FS kept pressing cause they weren't trapping until the very end. Seemed pointless to me and was back firing most of the time.

Also they must have had a talk with Horton after the last game and told him to stop hesitating cause I thought he was passing up way too many shots vs V Tech.

Thanks for the reply - I think you make a good point here. I thought some of the difference was in how FSU played us.

 

[FrogmoreZeke]

Thanks for the reply - I think you make a good point here. I thought some of the difference was in how FSU played us.

Also, hate to beat a dead horse, but notice we Never ran any weave! Early O eliminates that. This is how Cappie should have attacked WVU or any team that traps half court.

 

[gary2]

Because FS was pressing the coaches finally went into what is called Early O. Meaning instead of getting the ball across half court and then pulling it back out and run clock, they were getting it across and attacking and looking for a quicker shot. This is the way to attack a press and particularly when you have a hot shooter like Horton was last night. Guye was also taking quicker shots.

Cappie wants to, as he always says, "play ugly", which is code word for running as much clock as possible and reducing possessions. The game was still very ugly and low scoring but at least they were trying to attack the pressure instead of the other way around.

I was actually surprised that FS kept pressing cause they weren't trapping until the very end. Seemed pointless to me and was back firing most of the time.

Also they must have had a talk with Horton after the last game and told him to stop hesitating cause I thought he was passing up way too many shots vs V Tech.

IIt seemed against token pressure Horton brought the ball up until near the mid court line and passed to Femi or Burton who quickly got the team into attack mode.

If I were Hamilton, I would have gone after Horton after he was only half way there, particularly after Pitt had become so used to how it was being played.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Basketball at all levels is mostly a make or miss game. Sure, it takes strategy to put your team in position for open shots and to minimize the other team's open looks but it comes down to how many you make and how many the other team makes. Sometimes the shots go in and sometimes they don't. This was just a good shooting night for Horton and a really bad shooting night for FSU

 

[FrogmoreZeke]

IIt seemed against token pressure Horton brought the ball up until near the mid court line and passed to Femi or Burton who quickly got the team into attack mode.

If I were Hamilton, I would have gone after Horton after he was only half way there, particularly after Pitt had become so used to how it was being played.

I was thinking the same thing when I saw that. Was surprised that Horton was bringing it up but more surprised they did not pressure or trap him. I think there was a strong effort to get Horton more involved in both handling and shooting without hesitation. A few of the shots he took, even before he really got going, were really quick shots.

 

[Chescat]

A lot of detailed info given
to OP's original question. A
simple answer....this was by
far the worst FSU team I've
ever seen. As some posters
have stated, 3 FSU starters
were missing. Hamilton
usually has big, rangy, and
talented players. These subs
were rangy, some of them
were rail thin, and there sure
was a lack of talent. They
played the usual "loosey
goosey" offense for which
they're noted. The only difference
was they lacked the talent
that usually Hamilton puts on
the floor. Their offense was
terrible, yet they stayed in the
game despite it. As I watched
the first half, I was wondering
which team stunk the most on
the offensive end. It sure as hell
wasn't due to great defense. I
felt that game set basketball
back a hundred years.

 

[DT_PITT]

Did we play different tonight? it looked different To me.

It didn’t look great by any means, but it looked different.

I don’t think the difference was just that Horton had a hot hand.

I don’t think we run much offense and I don’t think we ran much offense tonight.

Was the focus different? Was the spacing/positioning different?

Was the style different?

It sure looked different.Did we change anything? Did our coach, coach?

OR….did we look different because FSU played us differently?

OR…I am all wet and it was the same old, same old?

They weren’t posting John on the blocks as much.

 

[joeydavid]

Did we play different tonight? it looked different To me.

It didn’t look great by any means, but it looked different.

I don’t think the difference was just that Horton had a hot hand.

I don’t think we run much offense and I don’t think we ran much offense tonight.

Was the focus different? Was the spacing/positioning different?

Was the style different?

It sure looked different.Did we change anything? Did our coach, coach?

OR….did we look different because FSU played us differently?

OR…I am all wet and it was the same old, same old?

Their spacing was better with 2 shooters, 2 drivers and a big.

With Gueye and Horton spaced on the perimeter Femi and Burton have a lot of room to drive or drive and kick.

As mentioned above, much of the delay tactics were by design to limit possessions.

 

[gary2]

They weren’t posting John on the blocks as much.

Agree

But the two posters (@TreesHero and @FrogmoreZeke ) that gave more lengthy responses made good observations in my opinion.. ( Maybe because they matched mine)

 

[FrogmoreZeke]

They weren’t posting John on the blocks as much.

Hugs has unfortunately hit a wall. His free throws were all short off the front rim and the T he got for grabbing the guy are all signs. His conditioning was not great to begin with and it's showing now. Hopefully this becomes one of the priorities for him in the off season. If he is back here next year.

 

[sonofabit]

Hugs has unfortunately hit a wall. His free throws were all short off the front rim and the T he got for grabbing the guy are all signs. His conditioning was not great to begin with and it's showing now. Hopefully this becomes one of the priorities for him in the off season. If he is back here next year.

Capel issued that explanation as well - Hugley has hit his first full-year wall. Notably the VT series. He barely gets any lift or air anymore for a man who was already playing below the rim.

 

[Bethlehemjohn]

Did we play different tonight? it looked different To me.

It didn’t look great by any means, but it looked different.

I don’t think the difference was just that Horton had a hot hand.

I don’t think we run much offense and I don’t think we ran much offense tonight.

Was the focus different? Was the spacing/positioning different?

Was the style different?

It sure looked different.Did we change anything? Did our coach, coach?

OR….did we look different because FSU played us differently?

OR…I am all wet and it was the same old, same old?

It was different mainly because FSU plays different. We spaced our guys much further apart because I believe the plan was to drive and kick. You could tell that Horton had the green light from the starting tip. FSU generally won’t play zone and they switch everything, so we wanted as much spacing as possible and then looked for match up’s that Femi or Burton could exploit.

 

[gary2]

It was different mainly because FSU plays different. We spaced our guys much further apart because I believe the plan was to drive and kick. You could tell that Horton had the green light from the starting tip. FSU generally won’t play zone and they switch everything, so we wanted as much spacing as possible and then looked for match up’s that Femi or Burton could exploit.

Thanks for the reply. Agree.

 

[Cap pitt]

Pitt played a little better D then usual, other then Horton, fsu is horrible at long range shooting, just like Pitt, those 2 teams matched up pretty well

 

[gary2]

Pitt played a little better D then usual, other then Horton, fsu is horrible at long range shooting, just like Pitt, those 2 teams matched up pretty well

FSU ran themselves into horrible position on offense in this game. It rivaled Pitt doing in the same in any game I have seen. (And Pitt is very good at doing that)

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I did not watch the game last night, but looking at the box score I can't possibly imagine how bad FSU was with Pitt winning. It had to be an ugly game.

Not complaining about ugly since the only thing that matters is the W.

 

[Chescat]

I did not watch the game last night, but looking at the box score I can't possibly imagine how bad FSU was with Pitt winning. It had to be an ugly game.

Not complaining about ugly since the only thing that matters is the W.

Two inept offenses. Horton
was hot from three and
Gueye gave a good performance.
Worst FSU team I've ever
seen.

 

[JRPITT]

And we played FSU's bench. That can help any team shoot well and defend.

Exactly! IMO Florida State was HORRIBLE.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Pitt played a little better D then usual, other then Horton, fsu is horrible at long range shooting, just like Pitt, those 2 teams matched up pretty well

FSU was missing 3 players.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Exactly! IMO Florida State was HORRIBLE.

I agree. But Pitt fans this year are just trying to find even a small morsel of positivity in this trainwreck of a season. So they look to a win over a horrible, depleted team that played their bench against us as their ray of hope. It's something to grasp onto.

 

[gary2]

FSU was missing 3 players.

The question was not how or why did we win.

The question was did we play differently and how.

 

[412boyz81]

FSU was missing 3 players.

and we we're missing 2 all yr

 

[412boyz81]

FSU was missing 3 players.

we we're missing 2 all yr so we were playing are bench and walk on lol

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

we we're missing 2 all yr so we were playing are bench and walk on lol

As I saw somewhere (ACCN TV analyst?)--He made the comment on FSU being shorthanded as contributing to Pitt's win---that even had he been fully aware of it prior to the game he would still have picked them to beat Pitt. A sad commentary on how our favorite team is regarded now.

 

[Chescat]

The question was not how or why did we win.

The question was did we play differently and how.

Yes we did do some things
differently, as both teams
were bad offensively. We did
hit threes due to Horton
being hot. Our offensive sets
IMO were not all that different.
It was mostly set a high pick
out front and dribbler (mostly
Femi) coming off it and looking
for an open shooter, taking it
to the hole himself, or passing
it off on the perimeter. No big
change, except Horton hitt 3's.

Defensively we kept them from
scoring, 51 pts. Why?.....Great
defense? LOL. They shot 28%
on their FG's, and 29% on 3's.
Their low %'s were a result of
their subs being very poor
offensively. Our man D was
typically what we usually do.
Our pressure out front was
more successful, but IMO
that was due to FSU's subs
being so poor. bottom line
though, we had more talent
for once.

We did not do very much
differently, other thaan
having a hot shooter who
hit his 3's. No great coaching
changes schematically or
otherwise, as I saw it.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

we we're missing 2 all yr so we were playing are bench and walk on lol

Whose fault is it that in year FOUR we have this current roster?

3 > 1