at the airport yesterday. He was a really nice guy . I talked to him for about 20 minutes and he had nothing but nice things to say about Pitt .
Ran into Walt Harris
- Thread starter mdeer1
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Always thought he would be kind of stiff personality wise but he was very personable .
Walt has always been easy to talk with one on one. A great guy and very personable and loves to talk FB. He just wasn't great in an interview situation or with crowds. I still think if he would have been given the resources PN is getting he would have been really great,. He actually played defense and turned into an offensive whiz who knew his role.
It was a sad day for me when it was announced he was leaving. He's very genuinely a Pitt man and always will be.
I'm not surprised. When his agent made those dubious comments, it became "fashionable" for Pitt fans to pile-on the guy who saved Pitt football. He became a pariah, through no fault of his own.
Personally, I wish that Pitt would offer him a "voluntary assistant" position (wink-wink) so that the current coaches can pick his brain about how to run a passing attack. At Pitt, no one did it better - before or since. Having Larry Fitz helped, but Walt sure knew what he was doing.
Walt is a great guy and chose to settle here after leaving Palo Alto. His agent is the one who screwed up.
I have had the pleasure of talking to Walt a few times. Used to see him at the women's BB games. Liked him at his LOI events. Would love to see him involved somehow with Pitt.
Go Pitt.
Guys, I liked Walt Harris as much as any fan on this board. I have met him several times and each time he has been a complete gentleman.
Whenever the torch and pitchfork crowd was trying to run him out of town, I distinctly remember being on the old Hail to Pitt site cautioning everyone to be careful what they wished for because they just might get it.
As always happens with those folks, I was shouted down and accused of being a dreaded "Harris apologist" and they prevailed. When I hear the song "March of the Pigs" by NIN I always think of our insane faction of Pitt fans and how ridiculously poorly they treat our coaches – even the good ones.
However, do people really think that Harris's agent, Bob LaMonte acted on his own there? Do you really think he just popped off to a bunch of reporters without his client's knowledge and consent?
That doesn't make any sense. LaMonte worked for Harris.
Now, I do believe that LaMonte went a little too far with his comments - which is why he was subsequently fired - but that was absolutely orchestrated by Walt and his agent.
They were trying to make the point that the Pitt was grossly underfunded in comparison to its competition and relative to its expectations, and it was not the easiest school to recruit to.
Basically, Harris and his agent knew they had an offer from Stanford – which at the time was not seen in the same light it is now. They thought they could use that offer as leverage for Pitt to increase its commitment in the form of recruiting budget, staff salaries, facilities, etc.
When Pitt balked, LaMonte/Harris became frustrated and lashed out. That was not a good move because it severed any chance Harris had to stay at Pitt. LaMonte became WAAY too heavy-handed in his public rhetoric (that type of bombast should be reserved for the negotiating table) but his basic point was as true then as it is today - 10 years later: If you want to play you have to pay.
It is my hope that chancellor Gallagher and the people in the Pitt athletic apartment fully understand that reality. Also, our fans need to understand that reality and they have to pony up much better than they have over the past decade or two.
Harris was not the only Pitt coach hurt by a lack of financial support. Basically every Pitt coach since Johnny Majors has been hurt by that exact same issue.
Now, that is a very tricky subject for a school in Pitt's situation but it is something we have to address if we hope to reach the next level. Solving that challenge really is of critical importance – much more so than if we get the "412 Crew" to tweet complementary things about the school or even to go here themselves.
Whenever the torch and pitchfork crowd was trying to run him out of town, I distinctly remember being on the old Hail to Pitt site cautioning everyone to be careful what they wished for because they just might get it.
As always happens with those folks, I was shouted down and accused of being a dreaded "Harris apologist" and they prevailed. When I hear the song "March of the Pigs" by NIN I always think of our insane faction of Pitt fans and how ridiculously poorly they treat our coaches – even the good ones.
However, do people really think that Harris's agent, Bob LaMonte acted on his own there? Do you really think he just popped off to a bunch of reporters without his client's knowledge and consent?
That doesn't make any sense. LaMonte worked for Harris.
Now, I do believe that LaMonte went a little too far with his comments - which is why he was subsequently fired - but that was absolutely orchestrated by Walt and his agent.
They were trying to make the point that the Pitt was grossly underfunded in comparison to its competition and relative to its expectations, and it was not the easiest school to recruit to.
Basically, Harris and his agent knew they had an offer from Stanford – which at the time was not seen in the same light it is now. They thought they could use that offer as leverage for Pitt to increase its commitment in the form of recruiting budget, staff salaries, facilities, etc.
When Pitt balked, LaMonte/Harris became frustrated and lashed out. That was not a good move because it severed any chance Harris had to stay at Pitt. LaMonte became WAAY too heavy-handed in his public rhetoric (that type of bombast should be reserved for the negotiating table) but his basic point was as true then as it is today - 10 years later: If you want to play you have to pay.
It is my hope that chancellor Gallagher and the people in the Pitt athletic apartment fully understand that reality. Also, our fans need to understand that reality and they have to pony up much better than they have over the past decade or two.
Harris was not the only Pitt coach hurt by a lack of financial support. Basically every Pitt coach since Johnny Majors has been hurt by that exact same issue.
Now, that is a very tricky subject for a school in Pitt's situation but it is something we have to address if we hope to reach the next level. Solving that challenge really is of critical importance – much more so than if we get the "412 Crew" to tweet complementary things about the school or even to go here themselves.
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That said, though I liked them both as coaches during their tenure at Pitt and their detractors are ridiculously unfair to them, I do not wish to say Walt Harris or Dave Wannstedt around the Pitt football program in any official capacity.
I think we screwed up in firing both of those guys when we did and more importantly how we did.
However, they are now gone and out of the picture. We should definitely move on. It is time for a fresh start.
I think we screwed up in firing both of those guys when we did and more importantly how we did.
However, they are now gone and out of the picture. We should definitely move on. It is time for a fresh start.
Walt took a johnny majors team that lost to Ohio state by 70 points and Notre dame by 50 and took them to a bowl game a year later. Johnny majors had this program so close to having the university call it quits and walt goes bowling the next year. He deserves a lot more credit than he gets
If Pitt was wise, they would hire you to help lead to truly rebuilding Pitt Football, on a lasting foundation of excellence, just based on your writings, thoughts, and experience seen in your words. I say so in complete honesty and sincerity without reservation!
Clearly, you display the passion and very much care about Pitt Football, University & Athletics! This is the type of dynamic leadership is needed among Fans, Alumni, and Contributors!
I think everything you said above had a ring of truth to it, but I also think Walt was burned out and he proved it when he took over Stanford. You are correct, Walt never got the support he needed to establish a solid Program. Pitt could not keep Staff since they paid so low. One of his Assistants lived next to a Thornberry Condo I invested in and was just paid $60,000 back when, and his wife was from Greene County doing TV.
It was a time for a change, and Nordenberg was bold in doing it, by going after Wannstedt that badly wanted the job, yet, made sure his Staff would be paid properly. It took sometime, but Coach Dave did win 10 Games, the most wins since 1980s, and could have won more without a mistakes or few? Pederson personality poisoned that relationship upon his return, just as Pederson did at Nebraska with the same ego and attitude with Alumni!
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I for one am glad I never took a negative stance or position against Walt....on second thought "Walt who"?...
two of my parents' friends are medium-big donors to pitt and especially pitt athletics, the wife was very sick near the end of walt's tenure and he came and visited her in the hospital multiple times over the month she was in there (she's better now). sent her several cards after she went home, they still keep in fairly frequent touch with him. walt is a really great guy.
He needed a real DC, and the interest to recruit actual bona fide defensive players. Hmmm ... sounds like a familiar refrain from last year.
Some AD guidance (and/or money) in that direction could have helped, maybe. Doubt he would have balked at it, unlike DW did. But maybe he was a stubborn cur too.
All I know is he had two walk on guys starting at DT near the end ... Academic AA's, yes, but walk on ... and how sustainable is that. ...
Some AD guidance (and/or money) in that direction could have helped, maybe. Doubt he would have balked at it, unlike DW did. But maybe he was a stubborn cur too.
All I know is he had two walk on guys starting at DT near the end ... Academic AA's, yes, but walk on ... and how sustainable is that. ...
Hey... I loved Vince Crochunis (I can't remember how to spell the name) and Dan Stephens.... those dudes played their hearts out and played above their talent in the 2003!
I liked Walt, but he had the chance to put a nail in Paterno's coffin and couldn't do it. Instead, PSU's recruiting got stronger when Penn State was down (Pozluzny, Lee, King, Shipley), plus he lost ground to Michigan as well. 2003 was his make or break season (like Wanny's was 2009) and they both broke. So it was definitely time for both to go, but I have not ill wishes towards them and they did provided some good memories, like 12-0, 13-9, and beating ND to close Pitt stadium.
As I have said, history now has been kind to Walt Harris and his accomplishments here.
Right, but we should've been kind to him at the time is what I'm saying.
We shouldn't need 10 years to look through the rearview mirror and decide, "You know what? That guy wasn't so bad after all. In retrospect, perhaps we overreacted at the time?"
I think Pat Narduzzi is going to win here. However, if he doesn't, you can bet your bottom dollar you can expect the same type of revisionist history to pop up regarding Harris's successor, Dave Wannstedt - who also did a better job than many of his detractors are willing to admit.
We shouldn't need 10 years to look through the rearview mirror and decide, "You know what? That guy wasn't so bad after all. In retrospect, perhaps we overreacted at the time?"
I think Pat Narduzzi is going to win here. However, if he doesn't, you can bet your bottom dollar you can expect the same type of revisionist history to pop up regarding Harris's successor, Dave Wannstedt - who also did a better job than many of his detractors are willing to admit.
Here we go again....
Look I liked Walt and think he was treated pretty shabbily by fans, media and the admin. But winning would have cured a lot of that. Yeah, he wasn't bad, but do we aspire to third place finishes in rinky dink conferences and Tire Bowl appearances? Every big game Walt (or Wanny) had they LOST. Whenever the spotlight shined brightest, they both let down equally (WVU in 2002, Cinci in 2009, etc).
I still think Pitt can make a run every so often at a 11 win season and BCS bowl. WVU achieved this, why can't we? It was obvious that wasn't going to happen with Walt or Wanny at the helm. So why think it was an over-reaction to fire them?
Harris took over one of the worst teams in all of Division 1A and made it respectable. There was talk of dropping football before he got here. Wannstedt took a team that averaged 8 wins over the previous several years and had been to 5 straight bowl games and tanked it, before getting back to respectability. I think there's a big difference between the two.
The stuff about Pitt being on the verge of dropping football before Pederson/Harris swooped in to save the day, is - and always has been - a big, fat myth. It simply is not remotely true.
Bob Smizik wrote a column suggesting that since it was obvious they were not prepared to adequately support football financially, Pitt should drop down to Division II or drop the sport altogether.
That somehow turned into this enduring myth that Pitt was seconds away from euthanizing the program, when in fact it was basically trolling before that term had been coined.
As for the Wanny/Walt thing, I think their tenures were very similar.
There are some differences to be sure but for the most part I think the argument is basically over who was slightly less mediocre than the other?
I think Harris took the program further but I think the program was on a little more solid footing under Wannstedt.
I think firing both coaches when we did, and more importantly how we did, was very obviously a mistake. I thought that at the time and in retrospect, given everything we now know, honestly, I can't believe it's even being debated.
If you run through coaches like toilet paper, at some point an intelligent person would invariably ask himself, "Is it possible our problems run a little deeper then who is holding the whistle?"
Nah, it's more fun to chase our tail.
Rumors that Walt is sick........
He looks rather frail...even compared to his days at pitt.
Anybody??
He looks rather frail...even compared to his days at pitt.
Anybody??
Firing Walt (or Wanny) wasnt the mistake. They were both trending unavoidably down by the end (despite the oddity of Walt's final team finding the pearl of a BCS game within the swine).
Not having a plan or commitment to upgrade from them was the mistake, and spectacular mistakes at that.
Both "efforts" conducted after the firings were disgraceful. The first ended with Rhoads and Cav as the top choices. DW came in on a white horse (more like a fly-bitten mule), and ended up botching that by keeping those two as coordinators (or having them thrust upon him).
That would have endured as the biggest joke in our coaching escapades, if not for the fiasco that marked Wanny's firing and the aftermath. No need to rehash THAT.
People are marveling at this 'great hire' of Duz. Well, it was a more professional effort, I'll give it that. But in retrospect how could it not have been?
There certainly also seems to be more focus on a guy who will actually win, not just to fill a random spot on the organization chart. But they still ultimately hired a career assistant and spent only a couple mil more than the previous. He's nicely qualified for what he is, and I put more hope in him than I ever had for Chryst, but he was not a 'splash hire'.
Not having a plan or commitment to upgrade from them was the mistake, and spectacular mistakes at that.
Both "efforts" conducted after the firings were disgraceful. The first ended with Rhoads and Cav as the top choices. DW came in on a white horse (more like a fly-bitten mule), and ended up botching that by keeping those two as coordinators (or having them thrust upon him).
That would have endured as the biggest joke in our coaching escapades, if not for the fiasco that marked Wanny's firing and the aftermath. No need to rehash THAT.
People are marveling at this 'great hire' of Duz. Well, it was a more professional effort, I'll give it that. But in retrospect how could it not have been?
There certainly also seems to be more focus on a guy who will actually win, not just to fill a random spot on the organization chart. But they still ultimately hired a career assistant and spent only a couple mil more than the previous. He's nicely qualified for what he is, and I put more hope in him than I ever had for Chryst, but he was not a 'splash hire'.
I didn't mean to disparage those guys specifically, you have to love what they did. But, it said volumes that they were starting.
That's the difference between the two. Walt took a program that was a laughingstock and made it respectable. Wanny took over a program that was respectable and he made it, well, respectable too. Eventually.
Two things in Walt's favor since you bring this up.
1) Despite the Wanny revisionists, Walt took over a program in FAR, FAR worse shape. People can talk about the lack of line depth when Wanny took over, Walt took over a team the year before who lost 72-0 and 60-6. We were second division MAC level at best. Of the 119 teams, Pitt was likely 110th or worse that year. What Wanny took over was gold in comparison. It might have been fool's gold, but still just no comparison. That is not opinion, that is fact.
2) Walt's best teams had to navigate a Big East with national champion contender Miami, a really good VT team, WVU, BC and Syracuse all who were at least top 35 type programs. Not to mention an ND team on the schedule those years which was a pretty decent program at the time. Wanny went through a Big East that was just pathetic the last 3 years, I mean UConn?
So I think Walt gets the edge. Everyone points to Wanny's recruiting, but Walt's was fantastic in hindsight as you look at the NFL product he produced.
I do think walt would beat wanny straight up with similar teams maybe on a late td. Both teams would have some gaffes and head scratchers though. Because so many of you love to keep looking back, I'd say walt's 8 years were more positive overall than wanny's 6. Since?, well Pitt is 26-27.
