Rebuilding our program like Arizona State

[steel_curtain]

-Looking at this program the last few years, the way Herb Sendek left it in the trash can like Dixon did to Pitt with horrific recruiting, before Bobby Hurley revived it in just 3 years.

-Its almost incredible. Hurley, 46 years old. 8-0 undefeated, Top 5 RPI, blew out Xavier, San Diego State, and St. Johns, and beat Kansas State. Now playing Kansas next in Kansas. Im going to watch this game. But then I noticed their roster and rebuild,

-They have a 7 man rotation, 3 of which are very good freshmen, and a powerhouse freshmen player. They have a Top 50 freshmen injured, Kimani Lawrence that we recruited, coming back later this year. They have a 5 Star shooting guard coming in and another 4 star guard from Finland, which scout says is the equivalent of a Top 50 US player. 3 more Top 50 players added to this team next year.

-Dam is all I can say. What a rebuild and a turnaround for a program that has 3 Ncaa Tournament appearances in 22 years. Good for them.

-I guess my point is, with the right Coach that can actually recruit, Pitt can get back to the Dance again and win again. We screwed up with Keatts, now at NC State.

-I just want to see some improvement and some good recruiting for once. Ill watch Pitt tonight and see if we can be competitive. I have not followed Pitt basketball since the debacle of last year. And I have not even followed recruiting, for the first time in about 20 years since Howlands days.

-If this board is still a live, do we have any good prospects we can sign late to help revive this team? If Stallings gets fired, it would be a miracle if we could poach Hurley to Pitt. But dam I would try it, but I doubt he would leave after the recruiting he has going on there. But for pete sake, Hurley makes 1.2 million at Arizona State. A lousy 1.2 million. If ASU doesnt step it up and pay him for this turnaround miracle he performed in Arizona, someone else will. If Stallings gets canned, Id offer $3 million to get him unless we go cheap and stupid again like Pitt normally does. The same before Dixon left. Think Hurley has good upside for what he is doing. Id be all over this if we tank this year.

-Thoughts?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

-Looking at this program the last few years, the way Herb Sendek left it in the trash can like Dixon did to Pitt with horrific recruiting, before Bobby Hurley revived it in just 3 years.

-Its almost incredible. Hurley, 46 years old. 8-0 undefeated, Top 5 RPI, blew out Xavier, San Diego State, and St. Johns, and beat Kansas State. Now playing Kansas next in Kansas. Im going to watch this game. But then I noticed their roster and rebuild,

-They have a 7 man rotation, 3 of which are very good freshmen, and a powerhouse freshmen player. They have a Top 50 freshmen injured, Kimani Lawrence that we recruited, coming back later this year. They have a 5 Star shooting guard coming in and another 4 star guard from Finland, which scout says is the equivalent of a Top 50 US player. 3 more Top 50 players added to this team next year.

-Dam is all I can say. What a rebuild and a turnaround for a program that has 3 Ncaa Tournament appearances in 22 years. Good for them.

-I guess my point is, with the right Coach that can actually recruit, Pitt can get back to the Dance again and win again. We screwed up with Keatts, now at NC State.

-I just want to see some improvement and some good recruiting for once. Ill watch Pitt tonight and see if we can be competitive. I have not followed Pitt basketball since the debacle of last year. And I have not even followed recruiting, for the first time in about 20 years since Howlands days.

-If this board is still a live, do we have any good prospects we can sign late to help revive this team? If Stallings gets fired, it would be a miracle if we could poach Hurley to Pitt. But dam I would try it, but I doubt he would leave after the recruiting he has going on there. But for pete sake, Hurley makes 1.2 million at Arizona State. A lousy 1.2 million. If ASU doesnt step it up and pay him for this turnaround miracle he performed in Arizona, someone else will. If Stallings gets canned, Id offer $3 million to get him unless we go cheap and stupid again like Pitt normally does. The same before Dixon left. Think Hurley has good upside for what he is doing. Id be all over this if we tank this year.

-Thoughts?

For every Bobby Hurley, there are 10 Bobby Gonzalez's. However, Hurley was pretty much a sure thing not like the typical mid-major coach.

Honestly though, has there ever been the son of a legendary HS coach who has failed as a college coach?

The Millers
The Hurleys
Mick Cronin

Should we sign TJ McConnell to a HC-in-waiting contract for 2035?

 

[Ski11585]

I heard Justice Kithcart is gonna be the best Pitt PG ever.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

Tennessee is a closer comparison.

 

[steel_curtain]

-They also have a transfer from San Diego State coming in, a 10ppg and 6rpg player, another Top 80 player to the 3 other Top 50 players.

-Wow is all I can. Id be all over this if Stallings is out.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I would imagine they’ll take care of Hurley much sooner than later. Results like that - they’d be fools not to. And if they don’t someone will poach him. But with 4 years remaining for Stallings after this year I don’t see Pitt being the one to do it.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I would imagine they’ll take care of Hurley much sooner than later. Results like that - they’d be fools not to. And if they don’t someone will poach him. But with 4 years remaining for Stallings after this year I don’t see Pitt being the one to do it.

Good luck. Hurley will be at a blue blood or near-blue blood very soon. Maybe Louisville, Syracuse, something like that.....or maybe Duke?

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Good luck. Hurley will be at a blue blood or near-blue blood very soon. Maybe Louisville, Syracuse, something like that.....or maybe Duke?

Oh of course if one of them come calling it’s game over. I’m not a fool. I just meant they’re gonna offer him a new contract. Which won’t mean anything of course.

 

[steel_curtain]

Oh of course if one of them come calling it’s game over. I’m not a fool. I just meant they’re gonna offer him a new contract. Which won’t mean anything of course.

-They went to the cheap dirt end of the stick hiring their new football Coach Herm Edwards for $2 million per year with a 250K per year raise builder with a $12 Million buyout for Todd the fraud Graham. Why are schools so stupid when it comes to athletics is beyond me. All this money loss with buyouts for mediocre coaches, when you could just pony up the first time around and get it right- AKA- Pitt Athletics. ASU said they want better results and just ate $12 million dollars.

-NC State got Keatts for $2.2 Million per year. What a steal. A guy Pitt could of had, but no.

-Interesting side note. Hurley's daughter goes to Arizona State, and his son just started high school in Arizona.

-Should be interesting if Stallings gets canned, who and how much we pay this time around to actually put a product of success on the court before the Pete is filled with crickets from now on and not people. Maybe he sticks in Arizona State for another 3-4 years if they actually do something smart and pay him. If not, someone is going to get good in basketball real fast.

-ASU is in interesting school. Huge school and Alumni base. If Arizona can become a National basketball powerhouse school, I dont know why ASU couldnt either unless they like to be cheap, aka Pitt. This one should be interesting, but I thought their turnaround story was very interesting and quite the story.

-I also believe Pitt could do the same with the right Coach and assistants and can actually recruit.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I just don’t see Pitt eating Stallings’ contract just yet. Maybe if attendance continues to be horrendous that might force the hand. But even then he probably gets another year.

 

[4Mark_Marty]

For every Bobby Hurley, there are 10 Bobby Gonzalez's. However, Hurley was pretty much a sure thing not like the typical mid-major coach.

Honestly though, has there ever been the son of a legendary HS coach who has failed as a college coach?

The Millers
The Hurleys
Mick Cronin

Should we sign TJ McConnell to a HC-in-waiting contract for 2035?

There is another Hurley coaching in the North East. He’s attainable.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

There is another Hurley coaching in the North East. He’s attainable.

There was a lot of chatter he wasn’t interested last year.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

I would imagine they’ll take care of Hurley much sooner than later. Results like that - they’d be fools not to. And if they don’t someone will poach him. But with 4 years remaining for Stallings after this year I don’t see Pitt being the one to do it.

Good luck. Hurley will be at a blue blood or near-blue blood very soon. Maybe Louisville, Syracuse, something like that.....or maybe Duke?

I think his brother is more likely to wind up at one.

Not sold on the ASU one. Didn’t perform miracles his first 2 years and he’s relying heavily on 3 seniors as a 3rd year coach.

I don’t expect most coaches to come in and make the immediate turnaround some do, but I do think we still tend to overrate most of these guys.

 

[steel_curtain]

I think his brother is more likely to wind up at one.

Not sold on the ASU one. Didn’t perform miracles his first 2 years and he’s relying heavily on 3 seniors as a 3rd year coach.

I don’t expect most coaches to come in and make the immediate turnaround some do, but I do think we still tend to overrate most of these guys.

-I guess we will see tomorrow vs Kansas. They have 3 Top 50 recruits coming in plus a 10 / 6 college player Top 80 transfer next year from San Diego State that is eligible, and not to rain on Pitt, but the Romello White kid is an absolute beast as a freshmen as is Remy Martin. And I looked at their recruits and the Dort kid looks like a 6'5 power guard that is the second coming of Marcus Smart. I only watched them once, and they completely smashed and embarrassed Xavier.

-I thought the story and Coach was interesting. I disagree with you. I think this team could boatrace the Pac-12 this year and boatrace it again next year. They dont even have Kimani Lawrence playing yet this year, another Top 50 recruit that Pitt recruited that is due back in January from injury that hasnt even played yet, have another Ohio State transfer coming in along with a Kansas former Mcdonald All American transfer in Carlton Bragg coming in. The talent headed to Tempe is dam near impressive for a doormat program, or average at best program, however you look at it.

-I do think they are for real. 5th in the RPI and undefeated. Big if, but if Hurley beats Kansas, they should vault into the Top 5, if not the Top 3 in the country. They caught my attention because they came out of nowhere. I remember Hurley going there, then looked at their recruits, and that is why I said dam why ASU and not Pitt.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

They have a 7 man rotation, 3 of which are very good freshmen, and a powerhouse freshmen player.

I haven't paid much attention to them, so I decided to take a look. They are, indeed, playing a seven man rotation. But only two of the seven, Martin and Shibel, are freshmen. And of the seven the guy getting by far the least number of minutes and by far the worst player of the seven is Shibel. The other five guys who are playing are three seniors, a junior and a sophomore. You can easily make the argument that the three seniors are their three best players.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

I think his brother is more likely to wind up at one.

Not sold on the ASU one. Didn’t perform miracles his first 2 years and he’s relying heavily on 3 seniors as a 3rd year coach.

I don’t expect most coaches to come in and make the immediate turnaround some do, but I do think we still tend to overrate most of these guys.

-I guess we will see tomorrow vs Kansas. They have 3 Top 50 recruits coming in plus a 10 / 6 college player Top 80 transfer next year from San Diego State that is eligible, and not to rain on Pitt, but the Romello White kid is an absolute beast as a freshmen as is Remy Martin. And I looked at their recruits and the Dort kid looks like a 6'5 power guard that is the second coming of Marcus Smart. I only watched them once, and they completely smashed and embarrassed Xavier.

-I thought the story and Coach was interesting. I disagree with you. I think this team could boatrace the Pac-12 this year and boatrace it again next year. They dont even have Kimani Lawrence playing yet this year, another Top 50 recruit that Pitt recruited that is due back in January from injury that hasnt even played yet, have another Ohio State transfer coming in along with a Kansas former Mcdonald All American transfer in Carlton Bragg coming in. The talent headed to Tempe is dam near impressive for a doormat program, or average at best program, however you look at it.

-I do think they are for real. 5th in the RPI and undefeated. Big if, but if Hurley beats Kansas, they should vault into the Top 5, if not the Top 3 in the country. They caught my attention because they came out of nowhere. I remember Hurley going there, then looked at their recruits, and that is why I said dam why ASU and not Pitt.

I would imagine that their mid-40’s rank on KenPom will prove to be closer to the truth than their current RPI by season’s end.

I also don’t think you’re totally correct on their rotation breakdown.

 

[steel_curtain]

I would imagine that their mid-40’s rank on KenPom will prove to be closer to the truth than their current RPI by season’s end.

I also don’t think you’re totally correct on their rotation breakdown.

-Kenpom is still factoring in last years results in his weights. It means nothing to this point, whether ASU is good or not. Im also not a kenpom fan.

 

[steel_curtain]

I haven't paid much attention to them, so I decided to take a look. They are, indeed, playing a seven man rotation. But only two of the seven, Martin and Shibel, are freshmen. And of the seven the guy getting by far the least number of minutes and by far the worst player of the seven is Shibel. The other five guys who are playing are three seniors, a junior and a sophomore. You can easily make the argument that the three seniors are their three best players.

-White is a redshirt freshmen averaging 17 and 9. Maybe he bolts to the NBA after this year, who knows, all Im saying is, this team came out of nowhere, and Hurley is recruiting his ass off down there.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It means nothing to this point,

And yet you think that RPI means something at this point.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

I would imagine that their mid-40’s rank on KenPom will prove to be closer to the truth than their current RPI by season’s end.

I also don’t think you’re totally correct on their rotation breakdown.

-Kenpom is still factoring in last years results in his weights. It means nothing to this point, whether ASU is good or not. Im also not a kenpom fan.

It’s far more relevant and accurate than RPI, regardless of whether prior year data is fully implemented.

And it’s not like ASU is going to jump up 35 spots overnight once the current year data is fully implemented. It gets gradually smoothed out.

This is like explaining to you why Pitt being first in offensive efficiency when they played nothing but cupcakes was not as predictive as KenPom saying they were more like 20th.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

White is a redshirt freshmen averaging 17 and 9.

Yeah, in looking at it a little more he sat out last season because he was academically ineligible.

He gets to the free throw line a ton. He's only taken 52 shots but he's taken 70 foul shots. He is leading the country in free throw rate. It's too bad that he's only making them at 60%, because if you are going to get to the line like that it would be nice if you were a good foul shooter.

 

[steel_curtain]

It’s far more relevant and accurate than RPI, regardless of whether prior year data is fully implemented.

And it’s not like ASU is going to jump up 35 spots overnight once the current year data is fully implemented. It gets gradually smoothed out.

This is like explaining to you why Pitt being first in offensive efficiency when they played nothing but cupcakes was not as predictive as KenPom saying they were more like 20th.

-Ive backed up my RPI argument for years. Regardless, not even Blair as a freshmen at Pitt was close to 17 and 9.

-Yes, I think it is relevant at this junction. The game vs Kansas and Arizona will be interesting. Arizona just got Alkins back from injury, they will be much improved now. ASU will go 9 deep within 4 weeks from today, changing their team too with 2 players coming back from injury.

 

[Pitt3Putt]

It’s far more relevant and accurate than RPI, regardless of whether prior year data is fully implemented.

And it’s not like ASU is going to jump up 35 spots overnight once the current year data is fully implemented. It gets gradually smoothed out.

This is like explaining to you why Pitt being first in offensive efficiency when they played nothing but cupcakes was not as predictive as KenPom saying they were more like 20th.

-Ive backed up my RPI argument for years. Regardless, not even Blair as a freshmen at Pitt was close to 17 and 9.

-Yes, I think it is relevant at this junction. The game vs Kansas and Arizona will be interesting. Arizona just got Alkins back from injury, they will be much improved now. ASU will go 9 deep within 4 weeks from today, changing their team too with 2 players coming back from injury.

I mean, it’s non-conference and you’re comparing a redshirt freshman with a true freshman.

White had 4 points and 4 rebounds against Xavier, the only legit team they’ve faced so far. Blair was dominant in the best conference in the country. The Pac12 is somehow shaping up to be more garbage than usual this year, so we likely won’t even get a fair comparison once Conference play starts.

I also don’t think there’s a legitimate argument to be made for RPI as a predictive stat, and it’s why the committee has been phasing it out. It’s mostly useless.

 

[DT_PITT]

-Ive backed up my RPI argument for years. Regardless, not even Blair as a freshmen at Pitt was close to 17 and 9.

-Yes, I think it is relevant at this junction. The game vs Kansas and Arizona will be interesting. Arizona just got Alkins back from injury, they will be much improved now. ASU will go 9 deep within 4 weeks from today, changing their team too with 2 players coming back from injury.

Why do you back up RPI but not Pomeroy?

 

[steel_curtain]

Why do you back up RPI but not Pomeroy?

-It constantly supported Ncaa Champions, Final 4 Teams, Elite 8 teams, and tournament seeding and its accurate, or the most accurate, in my opinion. And tournament seeding for years uses RPI has the number 1 resource, that has never changed. And it never changes the formula. Ive followed that site since its opening. It still never explained why the 2003 Pitt team, which was ranked #1 for about 10 years on his site, magically fell to #3. And that team to me is still the greatest Pitt team of all time. I also dont like the use of weights.

-And take Arizona State as an example with weight adjustments. They are undefeated, beat 3 teams ranked ahead of them in Pomeroy, and have not even broken his top 40 yet, after putting a complete beating on his #10 team. That's weight adjustment, which I dont like.

-I also dont like the fact he changes his rankings AFTER the Ncaa Tournament is over to support his website.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

You keep saying that the RPI has never changed the formula. And it keeps being pointed out to you that you are simply factually incorrect. The RPI formula has changed over the years.

And in any event, why would not changing the formula over the years be a good thing? Don't people learn things over time? Do we still drive Model T Fords and do doctors still use leaches to treat their patients, or do people do things differently because they have learned more and can do things better now?

And your opinion may be that the RPI is most accurate, but of course every single person who has ever studied these systems comes to the same conclusion. It's not the most accurate, and in fact of the "major" systems it is the least accurate in terms of getting correct who will actually win the game when two teams play. Which is, after all, what it is supposed to be about.

 

[steel_curtain]

You keep saying that the RPI has never changed the formula. And it keeps being pointed out to you that you are simply factually incorrect. The RPI formula has changed over the years.

And in any event, why would not changing the formula over the years be a good thing? Don't people learn things over time? Do we still drive Model T Fords and do doctors still use leaches to treat their patients, or do people do things differently because they have learned more and can do things better now?

And your opinion may be that the RPI is most accurate, but of course every single person who has ever studied these systems comes to the same conclusion. It's not the most accurate, and in fact of the "major" systems it is the least accurate in terms of getting correct who will actually win the game when two teams play. Which is, after all, what it is supposed to be about.

-Watching ASU at Kansas. New this would be ballgame. Their guards are sick.. And an elite frosh big man killing Kansas. Wait until the final, but.. Let watch how it finishes....

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Watching ASU at Kansas. New this would be ballgame. Their guards are sick.. And an elite frosh big man killing Kansas. Wait until the final, but.. Let watch how it finishes....

I watched a little of it in the second half when Arizona State went on their big run. If they can play like that all the time they'll be a tough out for anyone. Of course whether or not they can play that well all the time is why they play the season.

 

[steel_curtain]

-Asu beats Kansas on the road by 10. Any more doubters they are for real? Should be ranked top 3 in the country if not #1, for now. Best their ass without Lawwrwnce in the lineup.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

-Asu beats Kansas on the road by 10. Any more doubters they are for real? Should be ranked top 3 in the country if not #1, for now. Best their ass without Lawwrwnce in the lineup.

They are a #1 seed if today was Selection Sunday but obviously a long way to go. At this rate, Hurley may not last the season in Tempe. I'd be shocked if he's there next year.

 

[steel_curtain]

-Pomeroy update. Arizona State blasts Kansas at Kansas. After blasting Xavier in a complete beatdown, blasting St Johns, Kansas State, and San Diego St. -Pomeroy says they are the 38th the best team in the country. Simply ROFL. They might lose to Arizona with Alkins back, but if they blast Arizona too,. I wonder if they make the top 35 on Pomeroy. Any betters Arizona State would annihilate Virginia? I'd be all over it.

 

[steel_curtain]

-Following up on this,. ESPN now has them #1 in the power index rankings

-Also got a verbal of Kyree Walker, arguably the best high school player in the country

-Once again, dam. That program is on fire. Good for them, hopefully their AD doesnt screw it up. Would love to watch them kick Miller's ass down in Arizona every year moving forward.

 

[levance2]

-Pomeroy update. Arizona State blasts Kansas at Kansas. After blasting Xavier in a complete beatdown, blasting St Johns, Kansas State, and San Diego St. -Pomeroy says they are the 38th the best team in the country. Simply ROFL. They might lose to Arizona with Alkins back, but if they blast Arizona too,. I wonder if they make the top 35 on Pomeroy. Any betters Arizona State would annihilate Virginia? I'd be all over it.

I think a better question is why you care so much about ASU? Are we going to get daily updates all season?

 

[steel_curtain]

I think a better question is why you care so much about ASU? Are we going to get daily updates all season?

-Because they came out of nowhere, I like the story, and it shows they are building a program if they keep their coach. A real program that looks like a potential sleeping giant in the future the more I look into it.

-Any my point is, Pitt could do the same dam thing with an AD that doesnt have cement for brains.

 

[Jpripper88]

-Because they came out of nowhere, I like the story, and it shows they are building a program if they keep their coach. A real program that looks like a potential sleeping giant in the future the more I look into it.

-Any my point is, Pitt could do the same dam thing with an AD that doesnt have cement for brains.

We need to have someone running Pitt sports who really understands the value of Thomas MacVittie and Justice Kithcart!!

 

[steel_curtain]

-Because they came out of nowhere, I like the story, and it shows they are building a program if they keep their coach. A real program that looks like a potential sleeping giant in the future the more I look into it.

-Any my point is, Pitt could do the same dam thing with an AD that doesnt have cement for brains.

-No one bats 100 percent. I still don't get the kithcart hate,. He could still do well.

 

[Jpripper88]

-No one bats 100 percent. I still don't get the kithcart hate,. He could still do well.

True. If wasn't for Kithcart you'd be right at 100% and lightning fast speed U-ing right past all the competition.

 

[steel_curtain]

True. If wasn't for Kithcart you'd be right at 100% and lightning fast speed U-ing right past all the competition.

-Again, I thought the story was interesting. 3 More Top 50 recruits, a Top 80 transfer, and the best freshmen in all of high school basketball last year coming to ASU plus an Ohio State transfer and former Mcdonald All American transfer from Kansas. Since Pitt isnt doing shit this year, Ill cheer for the little guy from nowhere. Congrats on smoking Kansas at Kansas when no one thought you had a prayer. I hope they boatrace Sean Miller too. And to had salt in wound should they make the Final 4, they could dominate in the future in recruiting over Arizona if this trajectory continues or someone else doesnt pick off their Coach. Our admin. would offer 1.2 million, cheap asses. I also noticed James Harden is getting involved. What a great story in my opinion... Wish them all the luck from going from doormat to possible power. Ill also add, Pitt has no shot shot in signing him. We dont pump out money for winners, only 50-50 has beens. Crickets at the Pete... If ASU has half a brain, they go all in on Hurley.

 

[steel_curtain]

-For the record, I dont hate Jamie Dixon either. He's padded the record again beating up garbage, and will lose in the 1st round of the tournament again scoring 15 points at the half. Love to see ASU draw TCU in the first round. A colossal beating based off offense. Ill put that in writing now should it happen. ASU blows Dixon's doors off.

 

[PHATWOOD]

We need to have someone running Pitt sports who really understands the value of Thomas MacVittie and Justice Kithcart!!

LIGHTNING U 4.3 SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDD